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Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy



  • 01_hoe01_hoe Posts: 273
    Just a couple of guesses here, as this should be looked at by the dealer's service department. Since you are out of warranty, you probably will have to pay, unless you can get some help from GM customer service.

    Could be bad ignition switch or bad engine computer. There are a ton of electronics in the TrailBlazer, and that is why a dealer needs to look at it.

    Did the service engine soon light come on at any time?
  • No warning lights of any type other than the dash readout "check brake systems". Would an ignition switch cause the power to cut while you're driving? Not stopped, not accelerating or going up and down hills. Just driving at about 40 MPH and suddenly the engine is dead and steering is locked but everything else is still on and working.....
  • The rear door exterior handles on my 2003 Envoy XL sometimes won't open the doors. My dealer tells me this is common and there is no fix. They tell me to pull up on the end of the handle instead of the middle. This does improve the performance but still I have to apply a lot of upward force to get the door to open. Has anyone else experienced this?
  • I have over 80,000 miles on my 2003 Envoy XL. I have never reset the average fuel economy meter. After a weekend of around town city driving the average will drop to around 17. After a 100 mile highway trip the average will go up to 21 or higher. You would think the average would not fluctuate so much with such a base of miles if it is averaging from day one. I don't think this is the case because a limited amount of miles has such an effect on the overall average. According to the manual, if you don't reset the meter, the average is calculated from the last time it was reset. Does anyone know how the average MPG meter really works? Is it just averaging from the recent past; like the last X amount of miles?
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    Personally I don't think a vehicle should have any kind of parts in it that can fail right in the middle of driving, let alone that such a seriously dangerous problem hasn't already been addressed and is nearly impossible to figure out. And it's NEW, it shouldn't be doing this, how infuriating!! Please Help!!
    I have to chuckle at your statement. I too agree but thats impossible. Tires, axles, engines, drive shafts, almost every moving part on a vehicle can fail at any time leaving you SOL. Look around, there are a lot of small garages that have good mechanics who will fix your TB now that it is out of warranty for a whole lot less then the dealer. Even the dealer should be able to hook it up to a computer if needed
    and tell you what is wrong with a basic 1 hour labor charge I would think.
  • I understand vehicle parts fail, have had plenty of them do so. The statement was directed more toward the fact that I just purchased this vehicle recently and it was given an "all clear", there were no warnings or reasons to believe it might happen and it's such a dangerous problem. Unexpected events occur, I understand. Just wasn't expecting to have to address such an event this soon on a newer vehicle and I'm obviously not the only person this has taken by surprise. You used to usually be able to tell if a moving part on your vehicle "was going", but with all the electrical controls now it's become a complicated mess, is it even a moving part that has malfunctioned? Many others have had the "no start" effect on this year and model so I was only asking if anyone else has had the "cut out" effect as well with theirs. And if I could figure out how to get it started that might improve my chances of getting it to a garage to be looked at. Not eager to pay the towing charges in our neck of the woods if I don't have to. No help so far .... glad you got a chuckle though.
  • tblazedtblazed Posts: 945
    Happened across this info on another web site:

    "ABS light on, DTCs set. Some 1999-2004 midsize and full-size GM pickups and SUVs (full list below) may illuminate the ABS light and store DTC C0201 or C0265 in the ABS computer. In addition, code U1041 may set in other modules or you may encounter lost communication between your scanner and the ABS module.

    According to GM, all of these problems are probably due to a bad connection at ABS ground GlK), which you'll find on the frame rail just underneath the driver's-side door.

    Trucks that can be affected by the problem are:

    2002-2004 TrailBlazer & TrailBlazer EXT models; GMC Envoys, Envoy XLs, Olds Bravadas, Buick Rainiers and GMC Envoy XUVs."

    I know this doesn't fit all your symptoms, but point is, it could be one bad electrical connector or ground causing all your problems. Or an intermittent ignition switch. Those have been known to cause no start and other intermittent electrical problems.

    Did the dealer pull up all the previous service history on the Trailblazer you bought? You did say "new" but it is a 2002, so it could have plenty of repair history. They have easy access to all repairs done to it since day one when it was brand new. Was the previous owner having the same issues before they traded it in? Could it be you bought someone elses "lemon" they got rid of?
  • That could be worth a try, thank you. The truck was a dealer leased vehicle and they specifically pointed that out, implying it was in better and more "well-kept" condition than a "previously owned". They did pull up a recall on my VIN and they said their was nothing although I have found a recall for exactly my year and my model that has to do with the fuel pump filter CONNECTOR, not the pump or the filter. It listed the same "happenimgs". They dealership said their were no "open" recalls on my vehicle, so now I am curious how that works? There was a recall May 2003 for this connecter part for my vehicle but they refuse to see it as a recall because they say there are none open for mine???? If this is the problem and there WAS a recall, why are they saying they won't service it now?
  • deanodeano Posts: 11
    Hey all you fan clutch folks, my 2002 also has the slow to cool problem. I'm a paying member of AlldataDIY, but they don't have this TSB listed: 04-01-38-019A.

    Maybe the improved cooling will help with my towing issues as well as the slow AC.

    For those of you that have seen the TSB for the new design fan clutch, where did you get ahold of the TSB? I'd like to print it out before I approach the dealer.


  • hammen2hammen2 Posts: 1,313
    Message 17000 has the TSB # and title/heading of the TSB. That's what I gave to both dealers - the one I bought the truck from (and refused to fix it), and the one that did with no problems/issues.

    I have another dealer friend... I'm going to ask him for the text of the TSB...

  • tblazedtblazed Posts: 945
    Intermittent Slow to Cool HVAC Performance Concerns in
    High Ambient Temperatures and/or High Humidity
    Conditions After Start Up, Especially at Low Engine
    Speeds (Install New Engine Cooling Fan Clutch)
    #04-01-38-019A - (Jun 7, 2005)

    Intermittent Slow to Cool HVAC Performance Concerns in High Ambient Temperatures and/or High Humidity Conditions After Start Up, Especially at Low Engine Speeds (Install New Engine Cooling Fan Clutch)
    2004-2005 Buick Rainier
    2002-2005 Chevrolet TrailBlazer Models
    2002-2005 GMC Envoy Models
    2002-2004 Oldsmobile Bravada
    2005 Saab 9-7X
    This bulletin is being revised to provide repair information for this customer concern. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 04-01-38-019 (Section 01 -- HVAC).

    Some customers may comment on slow to cool Air Conditioning (A/C) performance or high A/C outlet temperatures after start up or that the A/C system is not cooling sufficiently, especially in high ambient temperatures. This may be an intermittent condition and the performance of the Heating, Ventilation and Air Conditioning (HVAC) system may not meet customer expectations.


    This condition may be caused by the response of the Electro-Viscous (EV) fan clutch and can be related to airflow across the condenser. This low A/C system performance can occur for longer periods of time if the vehicle is allowed to idle or is driven in low speed conditions. The response of the EV fan clutch will affect A/C system performance. As higher road speeds are attained, the increased airflow across the condenser will usually improve A/C system performance and the response of the EV fan clutch. This condition may be more evident after the vehicle has set for a period of time and can be difficult to duplicate. The condition may occur after the vehicle has set for as little as 10 minutes or as long as overnight. It is most prevalent intermittently during the first 15 minutes of operation.


    Technicians are to replace the EV fan clutch with a new design part, P/N 15293048, on vehicles built before June 2005. Vehicles built in June 2005 may already have the updated EV fan clutch and it will not need to be replaced. For 2004 model year vehicles and older, update the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) with a software calibration that was developed to improve coolant temperature gauge readings. This new calibration will cause the PCM to command small amounts of additional fan engagement to better control engine coolant temperatures. Model year 2005 vehicles already have this calibration installed. Refer to Corporate Service Bulletin Number 04-06-02-005 for more information about this calibration. Proper diagnosis of any customer concern is essential. Refer to the Diagnostic Starting Point-Heating, Ventilation and Air Conditioning procedure in SI to begin a diagnosis of any HVAC concerns. Refer to the Diagnostic Starting Point-Engine Cooling procedure in SI to begin a diagnosis of any engine cooling or engine cooling fan concerns. If an attempt is made to diagnose an HVAC system concern, all parameters must be measured. As an example, both the low and high side refrigerant pressure readings must be measured. If only the low side pressure readings were measured, it would appear that the A/C compressor is disengaging at a higher pressure than expected. If both the low and high side pressures were being measured, it would be noted that the A/C compressor is probably disengaging due to the maximum high side pressure cut out point being reached. This occurs to protect the HVAC system from damage. The updated PCM software calibration along with the updated EV fan clutch will improve this condition due to increased air flow across the condenser. The new EV fan clutch has an increased minimum operating fan speed and an improved response time. Additional engine cooling fan noise can be expected with the updated PCM software calibrations.

    The last area of customer concern is the operation of the HVAC system blower motor. For vehicles equipped with automatic control HVAC systems (RPO CJ2), the blower motor fan speed will be limited to 80% of maximum when the HVAC system is operating in the automatic mode. To obtain maximum blower motor speed, instruct the customer to manually adjust the blower motor speed to the highest setting.

    Parts Information
    Part Number 15293048
    Description Clutch Assembly
  • redline65redline65 Posts: 693
    Have an '02 Envoy and here in the Texas heat, interstate driving, the gauge is usually just a tick under 200 (reading 190), now I am noticing that the gauge is climbing 2-3 ticks over 200 while sitting at a light. Maybe I have never noticed it before but I dont remember it ever getting but just a tiny bit over the 200 mark in traffic or sitting at a light. Could this be a sign of the infamous fan clutch going?

    Has your engine gotten very loud? When our fan clutch needed to be replaced, the engine in our Envoy XL got very, very loud. It was a roaring noise that got louder with higher RPMs. That was a year or two ago, now that I know about the TSB for the fan clutch it might be worth it to tell the dealer that the A/C isn't cooling well at low or idol speeds to see if I can get the new replacement part.
  • here on this thread it really seems like a loosing battle when comparing this car to a honda pilot.

    I just would like to know if these cars are dependable and if anyone would suggest puchasing this truck over a Pilot?
  • hardhawkhardhawk Posts: 702
    I have had my 2002 Envoy SLT 4X4 since July of 2001. Have had a few minor issues but overall love the truck. It pulls my 5000# boat/trailer great and has the room and style I need, while getting better MPG than the Yukon. The Pilot is not in the same league with respect to towing, features or appearance, in my opinion. I am certain the Pilot is a fine vehicle, but it's not for me. I want a vehicle that I like to look at every time I get in or out of it. The Pilot is beyond plain and boring in its appearance. If something happened to my Envoy I would go out and get a new Envoy Denali or the new SAAB version tomorrow. I admit that I have been fortunate, but these boards tend to be more heavily popluated by those with complaints than those without. That does not mean the general public has had the same experience.
  • 01_hoe01_hoe Posts: 273
    Folks only come here to complain. More TB's and Envoys sold than Pilots, so you are dealing with a numbers issue here. I had an '03 Envoy and really liked it, liked it so much I bought an '05 Envoy Denali last month. Really great vehicles.

    My wife has a Honda Odyssey van, and I for the life of me can't see why so many like that vehicle. Lots of road noise, doesn't drive any better than other vans. JMHO
  • ficussficuss Posts: 541
    "Folks only come here to complain. More TB's and Envoys sold than Pilots, so you are dealing with a numbers issue here. I had an '03 Envoy and really liked it, liked it so much I bought an '05 Envoy Denali last month. Really great vehicles. "

    Which one is it?

    1) there are two types of people who post here, those with complaints about the tripletts and those who work for GM or have family who works for GM .
    2) follow your instincts, if it quacks like a duck, it probably is a duck.
    3) The complaints were and continue to be real.

    Some brands have a reputation for consistent quality, Honda is one of them. GM can make a good vehicle, but there seem to be high number of problematic GM cars out there. Why gamble?

    I had a bad 3 year experience with a 2002 TB. Sold it and bought a Mitsubishi Endeavor and have had 7500 miles of problem free driving.
  • 01_hoe01_hoe Posts: 273
    Ficuss has a bad taste in his mouth because he had a problem with his GM TB. He jumps on this forum any chance he can and badmouths the product and company. Even when he has leased a different make he comes back. Interesting he is lauding Honda when he got a Mitsubitchi this time.

    I don't work for GM, don't have any family that works or worked for GM. I have had a lot of other makes and models. I chose another Envoy because I liked the handling, ride, features, styling of the '03.

    We have a Honda Odyssey in the household. I really don't understand all the excitement about that vehicle. Lots of road noise, so so ride, etc.
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,059
    This forum is about the vehicles and not the people who drive them.

    tidester, host
  • I had an 02 Trailblazer LS for 11000 miles. It was bought back by GM. I decided to give GM another chance and bought an 03 Envoy SLE because I loved the triplets platform. I have no problems with it for over 2 years and 50000 miles. In July I traded that Envoy in for an 05 SLT and am even happier with my new truck. We have 5 of these trailblazers/Envoys here at work and no one has any problems with theirs. I'm sure, just like other brands, there are problematic triplets out there. My wife has an 02 Acura 3.2TL and its on transmission #3. Also a month ago they had to replace her entire front left bearing assembly. All cars have issues.
    The Pilot and Endeavor cannot be compared to the Envoy... Its a different class of vehicle. I believe if you're considering a Pilot or Endeavor, you might as well consider a minivan. Better gas mileage, and ride. The triplets are true trucks with a body on frame design. I towed a 2000 pound double jetski trailer through VT last year with an MDX and hated life when you threw a hill into the equation.
  • hardhawkhardhawk Posts: 702
    I have no connection of any kind to GM. I buy the vehicles that best suit my family. Love the Envoy. Love the Magnum RT Hemi. Two totally different vehicles, but each fills our needs well. Ficuss had a bad experience. I have appreciated his input over the years. I'm just sorry he didn't have a positive experience as I have had.
  • i know your posting was old, but how do i remove the grill from a 2002 envoy to change the headlight? i am trying to learn how to do things for my own car, but it is definietly not easy! any help would be appreciated!

  • gmfangmfan Posts: 188
    I would buy a Honda over a Mits that's for sure Two reasons: 1. Never buy a car that is difficult to spell and/or has more than 3 syllables (remember the Alpha Romeo??). 2. Mits supplied engines for Japanese fighter planes during WWII. Yes, the monarchy and totaliatiran society of that country during that time period probably made Mits do it, but it still bothers me.

    I don't work for GM either, in fact, my TB is my first GM vehicle I have ever purchased. I have owned it 3+ years and have 74,000 miles, and it is better than the Durango and the Jeep Grand Cherokee so far. My 02 TB drives exactly, if not better, than it did when it was new. I would say at around 65,000 miles my engine FINALLY started loosening up, and I am very confident this vehicle will last me well after my payments are up. The 4.2 L inline engine is a tight engine and is one of the best engines in the world according to many consumer reports...did anyone see that Consumer Reports or Motor Trend several years ago on TV that showed this engine being tested by GM being run a full-throttle and it hitting 300,000 miles? Not bad when you consider it was being run at full-throttle.

    I have been reading Honda is starting to have transmission problems because they are trying to engineer smoother transmissions, and the recalls are becoming more common. If anyone remembers, Honda used to put a automatic transmission that used to "kick" into gear (reminded me of a go-cart or tractor). True, that transmission would last 200,000 miles, but I think they realized that if they want to compete with GM & Chrysler, they would have add a smoother transmission. The problem with a smoother transmission means more "slippage" and more "heat", which results in faster wear. Knock on wood...I have gotten 150,000 miles on all my vehicles and never had automatic tranny problems. An engine will outlast a transmission every time.

    My two cents. Over and out- ;)

  • Please don't feed the animals
  • malibu99malibu99 Posts: 305
    Wow I read this post and went to check mine. I had the full transmission service done two months ago, filter and fluid done by the service dept of my dealership. Ever since I notice it takes long to shift from 1st gear, sometimes it goes into the 4000 RPMs and sometimes it feels like the OD is not kicking in....well with the engine OFF and warm ( parked it maybe 2 hours ago ) the dipstick shows the oil level is 3 times above the "FULL" mark!!! Could this be the cause? is this a problem? If so I need to have them take care of that, they overfilled it. Please let me know.
  • imadad2imadad2 Posts: 79
    I have no ties to GM at all. I have had several hand me down cars and trucks. GM has by far given me the highest quality. Yes, I had wind noise issues and the A/C fan clutch issue, but my TB drives great and gets decent gas mileage for a V8. I like the looks better than any other SUV (Except the Sequoia) and the price beat all large SUV's hands down. The EXT may not be the easiest to park, but what truck isn't?

    I had a horrible Dodge Caravan that I spent more money on repairing than what I orgionally paid for it.

    I had a Chrysler Lebaron that had a Mitsu engine in it that was so bad that I wanted to get rid of the car every day I drove it. So now I vow never to buy a Mitsu engine again.

    I had a Ford Mustang that constantly got out of ailignment, broke down, and rusted that I had to get rid of it.

    I had a K car that would stall and could never be fixed by the garages. I had to give that away.

    I have also owned a Nova, Caprice, Chevy Van, Cavalier, Omega, & LeSabre. All these cars were hand me downs and all drove well and needed only maintenance to keep them on the road. The Nova and Caprice hit the 200,000 mile mark. If I had not bought newer vehicles, I would still have them.

    My Prizm has not had one problem with it in 55,000 miles. Yes, it was built with a Toyota engine, but GM had a lot to do with it. It makes me want to buy a Pontiac Vibe just because it was made at the same plant.

    My car history makes me very confident with GM products. Yes, ALL car companies have their lemons and the Japanese brands seem to have better quality reputations. However, for the price and IMO the quality, nothing beats a GM. My next car purchase most likely will be a GM. Toyota is the only other car company that I might buy from. The rest, especially Chrysler, would have to give me one hell of a deal to get me to buy from them.
  • wxman4wxman4 Posts: 53
    Check your manual. The engine needs to be running at idle and transmission in P to get accurate check of transmission fluid level. Yes, it should also be at operating temp. You should also engage the gears momentarily and return to P prior to checking.

    Can't say it won't still be overfilled, but an engine off check is not accurate.

    Good luck
  • 01_hoe01_hoe Posts: 273
    If you are wanting to change a headlight bulb on an Envoy, absolutely NO need to remove the grille. Will take a 9005 or 9006 bulb, depending on which one is to be replaced.
    Open the hood. Look at the headlamp that is to be repaired. On either side of the headlamp you will see a slender piece of metal sticking up. Pull each of these metal tabs straight up. When both are pulled up, the headlamp assembly will lift out. There is a round rubber cap covering each of the bulbs. Remove the rubber cap of the burnt out bulb. Disconnect the bulb wiring. Rotate the burnt out bulb and it should come free of the mounting. Replace with new bulb. DO NOT touch the glass part of the new bulb with your hands. Wear gloves. Hand oil will severely shorten the life of the new bulb, so use gloves. Connect bulb wiring, replace rubber cap and put headlamp back in origional position. Push each metal tab back down.
    Look at headlight and compare with other one to make sure the repaired on is reinstalled correctly. Your done.
    If you had a TB, the job would have been more difficult, as the grille does get in the way. I have read on other forums it can be done without removing the grille, if you are blessed with small hands and can work in close places.
  • malibu99malibu99 Posts: 305
    I just checked it with the engine running and shifting to drive then P and indeed its where it needs to be. I cant explain why after they did the work its slower in Transmissions get "used" to the old fluid and when new one is put in they have to "learn" your habits all over again?
  • ficussficuss Posts: 541
    psobkiewicz: Why did GM buy it back?
  • gam2gam2 Posts: 316
    Wow, maybe it's where you live! GM bought my first Triplet back and the replacement isn't much better. EVERYONE (6 Triplets) here where I work has had problems with theirs and not the insignificant kind. Now my brakes are starting to act up. Still need to get the rusting doors fixed. Will it ever end? Maybe Wisconsin got all the quality rejects, or only cars made on Monday morning!

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