Could be a tire. However these are exactly the symptoms an 01 LS had locally. After everything was checked, it turned out to be the universal, which was replaced. Good luck.
Happy Anniversary to all LS fanatics, on all boards. A truly eclectic group.
The 2003s have only been at the dealers for a few weeks now. There are still a lot of 2002 models in inventory and they're trying very hard to move those first, so not much hype yet about the 2003. Should change in another month or two.
I took delivery of a V6 premium '03 LS on 12/30. Prior to that I was driving a V6 '02 LS. The '03 by a number measures is an improvement over the '02. The most obvious is the interior but ride, performance and interior noise levels are also improved. I was happy with the '02 LS but the '03 LS is a very, very nice car. This car compares nicely to my wife's '02 E320.
my 2000 LS V8 Sport at the end if its lease. I have 26k miles on it and the lease is out in July. Any anecdotal evidence out there about offering below residual? I am thinking about offering 17k?? I believe the residual is about 20k.
How motivated is LM to get out from under these things?
Any easy way to tell what rear end ratio I have? How much would it cost (roughly) to go to the 3.58 if I don't already have it? Will it make much of a difference?
I already have a K&N Panel filter. Does opening up the exhaust (magnaflows, etc) make much difference? Is there a performance chip available and does it help?
Ford Credit will not negotiate the buy out price on the lease. Take it or leave it. Some folks (one at least) got a revised buy out price from Ford Credit but we never figured out why or if it applied to everyone. It won't hurt to ask but don't be surprised if they turn you down. They have too many leases to individually negotiate each one.
As for performance: magnaflow cat-back will add 10-12 hp. No chips available and even if they were they wouldn't help much. The engine parameters are already optimized from the factory.
If your car was built prior to September of 99 you may have the 3.58 rear end. Check the tag on the differential. Nobody's upgraded AFAIK but it won't be cheap and it won't give you a huge boost in performance. The magnaflows would probably be a much better investment.
I just had 4.56 gears installed in my Jeep Wrangler (to replace the stock 3.07) to improve performance and compensate for 33inch tires. Of course on 4wd vehicles you have to do both front and reaf diffs ((
In actuality, 4.11 gears would have brought my Wrangler back to stock with 33 inch tires. In other words the RPMs at about 60mph would be the same as if I had stock gears and tires. There is a formula for calculating this.
With 4.56 gears I could go to 35inch tires and be stock. But for now I get very nice low end (it runs to 60 like a banshee). Also since I tow it is great on the highway in 5th gear.
With this latest deep freeze here in Jersey, my power steering pump has been making a terrible racket until the car warms up. I was wondering if any one else has experienced this problem. It has been ridiculously cold, but the noise has me a little concerned. Any input would be appreciated.
It is not unusual for the pump to moan in cold weather, mine has since new and I've been told that it's normal. I had my dealer verify that there was no air in the lines and then learned to live with it. Mine moans when I start it cold, and then for the first two or three 90 degree turns, then the noise subsides.
Could you describe the racket in any more detail? Does it sound mechanical, or just like there is air in the line? Mine is a low moan, and it's pitch changes as I turn the wheel for the first few times.
from a honking/hooting drone at a very annoying frequency? It occurs primarily at Ide and appears to come from the intake.. I have a K&N panel filter but it is otherwise a totally stock intake...
This is my second LS and both make moaning noises when cold. The new one only has 300 miles on it. My previous ride was an Olds LSS which also made the same racket. Never gave me any problems however. Maybe they're just protesting to the cold as LS's in Dallas don't normally wake up to temps in the teens! If you want to hear a racket you should hear the P/S belts squealing on my El Camino in the cold - never hear anything when it's warm.
That would be the added intake from the K&N. Since I added the K&N and seriously opened up my stock airbox, my car sounds like a Hoover vacuum cleaner at idle (when cold). There isn't too much intake growl at warm idle.
Ray B, It sounds like there is a bad bearing along with some cavitating air. It gets louder as you turn the wheel and as you said it disappears after a few 90 degree turns. As I recall my previous 2000 LS had some P/S noise when very cold also. It has been exceptionally cold, it's probably colder here then in WI, and it's probably not a serious issue, but it is annoying nonetheless. There is also a rattle underneath when it's cold and I had the same rattle on the 2000. I suspect it's from the exhaust pipes. I’ll have them check it out when I bring it in to check for a valve cover leak.
Congratulations on your new LS Chris, any noise this morning? Hope not!
I haven't had the noisy pump problem up here in NY with all the sub zero whether we've had lately, that's because my LS wouldn't start yet again when I went to turn it in at the dealer yesterday. At least by having it towed, I didn't have to have someone pick me up at the dealership. Hope nobody else has the bad luck I've had with mine, thank god this car is gone.
you guys make me laugh, you sound like ford, i mean thinking everyone is stupid! of course im sure it is not the bumper ive read that tsb too. i know exactly what it is . it's a defect in production on model produced before 12/01. i also know there are others. i am a finance manager for a dealership and previously worked for a ford lincoln dealer up until this happened. yeah yeah we went through the clay rub deal with zero results. i have always hand washed this vehicle and nothing less then 91 octane. i have all the latest wash supplies etc.... been to the dispute board twice now both times to my favor, again instructed to 2nd re-paint after inspection confirmed my concerns. ford has treated me with much disrespect throughout this process, not even providing a loaner while my new 02 ls was in the body shop for 53 days!! never even a gesture of good will. hired an attorney last week. what a bunch of crap to have to go through.
No, we don't treat EVERYONE as stupid. I've read your complaint on another site and you haven't yet described the area of the body you're talking about in terms anyone understands. If you don't know the difference between a quarter panel and a C-pillar, don't expect helpful replies to your questions. If you just want to rant, let 'er rip.
Please accept my apology for my ranting just looking for some assistance. I am not the one who called the rear quarter panel defect a c-pillar it was the FSE"s term used, I assumed it was the correct technical term. Let me try to describe the warping problem. I was told it is where the quarter panels are welded together. The area affected is on the sides of each area passed the rear doors, below the sunroof and above the trunk. What is that part of the exterior body called? Please excuse my poor grammar in my earlier posts. Thank you, gentlemen for your time reading my posts.
Yup, that's the C-pillar. It's the part that starts at the top of the back window on the side right where it curves over from the roof?
That weld seam has been problematic for Lincoln to get completely smooth since it is a very long braze. The early models had it the worst. When we were at Mania 2 in Dearborn the engineer said that this seam will probably never be completely smooth. They've made a lot of changes in the way it is brazed, including hand sanding the seam after the brazing, but it will probably continue to be a problem until they do a full redesign of the car.
Put your ear to work and make sure that your honk/hoot is coming from the airbox and no where else - if you somehow loosened any of the intake air hoses, etc. you will need to tighten those up - or your car will be taking on unmetered/unfiltered air.
I've owned (and still do own) a couple of Ford/Lincoln's with the dreaded 3.8L engine. It has a vacuum hose that likes to self distruct and collapse. I don't know of any on the LS engines, but you never know...
My LS V8 was $40K new. I have 20,000 miles and have gone to 3 dealers on a trade. It appears the best I can get on trade is $14,000. Why have these depreciated so poorly?
These cars are not in high demand in the used car market. Used car values everywhere are way down with maybe a few exceptions. 2 and 3 year leases are really causing a glut of used vehicles. You might be able to get over $20K if you sold it yourself. You might also get lucky and find a dealer who wants it more than the others.
Is $40K what you paid or the sticker? There seems to be a lot of comparisons between sticker and trade-in. Sticker doesn't mean diddly-squat if you paid less than that. My sticker was $33.5K. I paid $31.5K. If my trade-in is $13K, the difference is ~41%. If you go by sticker, it is ~38%. The true depreciation is 69%, not 72%.
I don't understand why in the year 2003 someone does not understand the trade in price is not a good deal for the person wanting to unload a car. That price does not reflect the cars value because as I'm sure most understand the dealer has to make money on the car when he sells it. It's not as easy as leaving the car at the dealer but run an ad in your local newspaper and sell the car yourself. I've always done this and if the car is priced correctly you will sell it the same day the ad runs and you'll get much more than you were offered as a trade allthough not 50% more like someone else posted.
I'm sure that there are A LOT of factors that go into the resale value of a car.
I periodically check the resale value of my 2000 V6 Sport - loaded. This past summer the value had steadily decreased to about $24,000 - then all of a sudden - this fall it dropped sharply to $19,000. I could not believe my eyes when I saw that!
I think a couple of factors have really worked against us in creating this situation.
1.) Our beloved LS is a Lincoln. (In case you haven't noticed.) Lincoln as a whole has built a bad reputation as having one of the worst resales over the past decade or so. (ie. the poor quality of the early 90's Continentals, etc.)
2.) Even after 4 years of production, very few people know what the LS really is. -I saw a 2000 LS at a local F/M dealer about 2 years ago that was marked as a "2000 Lincoln Mark VI." Okay - here's a Ford dealer that has no idea what an LS is. -I have seen ONE, yes... just ONE of the new LS commercials with the travel well theme - so people STILL don't have a clue of what this car is - BUT - after the Super Bowl - I'll bet they'd be able to recognize a new CTS in a flash...
3.) Most LS probably end up getting sold at an auction where: a.) Its a Lincoln (predetermined Value level) & b.) The people at the auction don't have a clue what the LS really is...
These are just a few conclusions that I've come up with about resale value, but I'm sure the Economy and a whole lot more play into the equation - can we fix this - probably not... can Lincoln? - probably...
And it appears the 1980's pontiac design team was retained for the new GTO. It looks 15 years old and it's not even out yet. I heard it very lonely at the Detroit Auto Show while 100 feet away you couldn't get close to the silver Mustang GT fastback built on the DEW98 (LS, S-type, Tbird) platform.
I was going to take a second look at the LS. Even though my first thoughts is that it is really poor quality.
Some people told me to look at the LS instead of the GS300.
I used to have a CADDY (sedan deville) And two dealers treated me with alot of disrepect. So i got my first LEXUS 1999 GS300
I love the car and the dealership. They are so nice and done me alot of favors. Now that my lease is coming due I been look at a lease for around $400 a month for 48 months with 12k miles a year
READING this thread just reminded me of how GM an american dealership treated me. NOW for SURE I will not bother to look at the LS again.
What does GM have to do with Lincoln??? My dealership has been fantastic. Granted, they don't have a Starbucks in the waiting room. They just put me in a car and send me on my way. I would rather get the car for less $$$$ than pay for fluff. It isn't the dealership that pays for that stuff! You have obviously been bitten by the "American cars are crap" bug. The only Japanese cars I've had were a 1978 Mitsubishi (aka Plymouth Sapporo) and a 1992 Civic. Neither was a paragon of quality. The sheet metal that Honda used was paper thin. The speedo was over 10% off! I was glad to get rid of that pile.
Anyway, I'll just save the difference between your Toyota and my Lincoln and retire early.
I have an opportunity to buy the above vehicle from a friend of mine. I have found that the value (KBB and Edmunds) is all over the place. The car has 71,000 miles and has been serviced regularly by the local dealer. I drove it and it feels very sporty. Some people have told me to expect terrible things to happen after the 100,000 mile mark. Every ones input is appreciated. Is this car going to become a "nightmare on wheels"? What is it really worth?
Listen My family has owned AMERICAN cars for over 50 years. Never have we ever looked into any NON-AMERICAN CAR
When my CADDY dealer treated with such non-caring and disrespect. I went to a second dealer. Only to get same type of disrespect. I got the car fixed and 2 weeks later I got my GS300. (If you need to know details about experiences I will tell you)
I LOVE Lexus service. Also the fact that loaners are avail any time no hassle. Even if you need it for a 30 min oil change. Lexus has been nothing but fantastic for me.
But since My lease is almost up I am looking again. Another thread said that the LS was as good, if not better than the GS. Being an open minded buyer. I was going to go back and look and test drive it. My first impression of car and dealer was not good at all.
After reading this thread how owners are getting disrepected and are worried about how low price there trade-in's are because the car does not hold it's value. This just remined me how how I used to feel about CADDY.
I have never read a Lexus thread "The dealer disrepected me"
I like a CLEAN non-smokey dealership with new carpet. I do not need food or coffee. I do need a loaner when I want it and need it.
If your lincon dealership is as nice as you say and near me I would love to look again.
I am just saying forget about cars for a second and talk about the people who work there. I have been treated very well at lexus. The caddy dealers cancel appointment when i got there. Made me wait 8 hours in waiting room while lying to me that it will be done any minute. When I asked head service guy "Maybe I should go home" Answer was "How Will You GET THERE"!!!
I even called caddy(GM, Head office) after I got my Lexus and told them why I would NEVER be buying their car again. DID GM offer me any incentive to stay with them? Or go back? NOPE!!!
Not trying to fight with anyone here. just saying this is how I felt after reading this thread. Any help would be great
Let me tell you about my recent test drive of the new ES300. My wife likes the new ES so I went to the local dealer one Wednesday that I had taken off work for an afternoon doctor's appointment. I got finished early so I decided to go check out the car after having researched it. I walked into the dealership and looked around for about 15 minutes, I was COMPLETELY IGNORED. I actually had to ask the receptionist to page a salesman! He came walking up to me with a cup of coffee in one hand and the morning newspaper in the other, and this was at 2:30 in the afternoon. I expressed my interest in the ES300 and he gave the expected "There's nothing like a LEXUS" speech and offered to take me on a test drive. After walking outside and getting in the car he said that this was the only demo model they had so I could only drive it around the Auto Mall's circle, but definitely NOT OUT ON THE HIGHWAY. So I drove the less than one mile circle at a speed that might have reached 25MPH once. AFter arriving back at the dealership He asked what color I wanted. I told him that decision would have to await an actual test drive of the vehicle and he said "You just had one."
Yep, there's nothing like the LEXUS EXPERIENCE. We bought a Jag X-Type.
[Names have been witheld to protect the guilty. But since I live in Cincinnati it shouldn't be too hard to find out]
Listen I am not trying to get anyone angry or bent out of shape. You had a BAD salesman and you never asked to speak to the Sales MAnager I would of.
To be quite honest. You were never a customer. Just people going on a test drive lol. Once you go for service you would never go back. There are BAD salesmen everywhere.
So you like FORD and that is ok. You Bought another FORD. I too looked at the JAG it was not for me.
Have you read most of these messages on this thread? Most are complaints about the service or the resale of the LINCON (FORD)
I am just saying this messageboard talked me out of going back to look at the LS.
It's NOT the brand, it's the DEALER. There are good and bad dealerships with every brand.
All you had to say was that you prefer YOUR Lexus dealer so you bought a Lexus. Keyrow had the exact opposite experience. Don't make broad statements based on limited data.
All I can tell you is that we haven't seen any long term reliability problems and we have at least one or two folks with more than 100K (speak up Brian!). We've seen a few design problems like window regulators, leaky headlamps, etc. but those have all been fixed with revised parts and aren't likely to reoccur. Long term reliability appears to be very good at this point. Seats are holding up, no major squeaks, rattles, breaking parts, etc. Nothing seems to be "wearing out".
I bought a 2002 Lincoln LS form Johnson FLM in Marble Falls Texas. I have received better service and treatment than I have ever experienced. All work is done in the most professional manner and a loaner Lincoln is always provided.
There are definitely bad Lincoln dealers out there. I am sure there are bad Lexus dealers as well. It is unfortunate that the percentage of bad Lincoln dealers is probably greater.
Lincoln has tremendous commitment to their customers. I have toured the manufacturing plant in Wixom, met with many of the engineers. I have business cards, phone numbers, and email addresses of the people that designed the car. They are available to help if I should have a question or a problem.
One thing that you have not addressed here is the difference in the vehicles. The GS is more of a luxury sedan vs the LS which is much more performance oriented. If you compare driving the GS300 and LS around the twisties there will be a big difference. The LS will win hands down. In addition, you should be able to get an LS V8 for about the price of a GS300. Having test driven both vehicles on the same twisties prior to purchase, there is no comparison. In addition, the 2003 LS has many improvements over the 2002 and still more power. As far as reliability, I have had 2 minor problems, both easily fixed under warranty (14,000 miles).
I believe the difference in vehicles is more important than the difference in dealers.
Feel free to drop me an email at LobsenzA@Rose-Grp.com if you want to talk further.
I tried the board you mentioned and got a reply that there is no such board. Bummer! I tried inserting BMW in place of Lexus but that didn't work either.
OK, You have now told us a number of times in your broken English that you will not be considering an LS for your next purchase. Why are you still here? There are many here who feel the LS is the best car they have ever owned. You quote trade in value as an indicator of depreciation......... well trade in value is not the best indicator. You say that dealer dissatisfaction is your main reason for not considering the LS........ that's fine but I would not give up the car I chose because the dealer sucked. Would you buy a Mini Cooper if they were the only "good" dealer in your town? Hell, I only take the car to the dealer for warranty work anyway. In conclusion you made a decision and I respect that now you should only stop back to tell us how nice your new Lexus is. The only thing I can't really figure out is if you came to this country for a better life and you were given that chance why not buy American? It's like the thousands of foreign doctors who come here to make the big bucks some even getting a free education.............. when they get rolling they buy a Mercedes. You would think.................
My early build 2000 Lincoln LS currently has 98,000 miles. It is still as tight as when it was new. The paint is still as shiny. The 3.9L V-8 doesn't use any oil between oil changes, the transmission shifts as smooth as any low-mileage LS.
I have taken it back to the dealer for un-expected service exactly two times in three years.
The car is driven hard, over mountain roads on a 130 mile daily round-trip commute.
The rear window regulators have NOT failed. The leather looks as good as when I got it off the lot. I have had nothing fall off, creak, groan or rattle. To this day, I have business associates comment on the quality of the interior. This coming from people who own BMWs/Mercedes/Infiniti/Lexus.
And I can still blow the doors off most of the imitation sports sedans out there. My LS continues to cruise effortlessly at 100 mph without any shakes, shimmies or undue concerns.
My dealer, Rancho Ford in Temecula, has been outstanding in sales and service. I would put them up against any high-end, or in Lexus case, perceived high-end dealership in terms of quality customer care.
I always get a clean loaner, my car is always fixed right the first time.
I was so impressed with Lincoln's commitment to the customer that I bought a Lincoln Navigator for my wife because of the way we have been treated by Lincoln and by the dealership.
So joker...., since you only want to pay $399 a month, stick with your Lexus. Your email obviously shows that you don't look at owning a car long term since you're looking at a new GS300. Let me know when, or more correctly, if, that Lexus will give you as many trouble-free miles as my Lincoln LS has.
I've been driving a '00 Lincoln LS8 Sport for nearly 80,00 miles and offer the following -
- car is still tight and fast, motor still smooth as silk, no squeaks or rattles.
- have had minor quality problems- power window,radio controls etc. dealer response has been good if not quite excellent.
- There are some obvious inprovements needed ( tighter steering,useless sport shift automatic, and cockpit storage etc,)From what I've seen LM is addressing these issues as they refine the line.
All in all I believe the LS will stand up to the Acuras,Lexi, Audi and BMWs in a direct comparison.
The problem we are all observing with resale is that the only reputation the LS has is that of Lincolns in general, whereas the Beemers,acuras etc have established a high quality/durability rep over the years. If LM keeps at it with the LS over a long enough time they'll get there.
The LS has a rep to overcome and rebuild to compete while the competition can rest on theirs. I'll bet the overall number of problems with all of these cars is not much different and that the difference is narrowing, it's just that a Lincoln problem is "expected" while an Audi problem is probably kept secret by the owner.
Comments
Happy Anniversary to all LS fanatics, on all boards. A truly eclectic group.
How motivated is LM to get out from under these things?
Thanks in advance...
Any easy way to tell what rear end ratio I have? How much would it cost (roughly) to go to the 3.58 if I don't already have it? Will it make much of a difference?
I already have a K&N Panel filter. Does opening up the exhaust (magnaflows, etc) make much difference?
Is there a performance chip available and does it help?
I know some of you have experience with this!
Thanks!!!
I know many of you have done this
As for performance: magnaflow cat-back will add 10-12 hp. No chips available and even if they were they wouldn't help much. The engine parameters are already optimized from the factory.
If your car was built prior to September of 99 you may have the 3.58 rear end. Check the tag on the differential. Nobody's upgraded AFAIK but it won't be cheap and it won't give you a huge boost in performance. The magnaflows would probably be a much better investment.
I just had 4.56 gears installed in my Jeep Wrangler (to replace the stock 3.07) to improve performance and compensate for 33inch tires. Of course on 4wd vehicles you have to do both front and reaf diffs
Cost about$1500...
Made a huge difference though...
With 4.56 gears I could go to 35inch tires and be stock. But for now I get very nice low end (it runs to 60 like a banshee). Also since I tow it is great on the highway in 5th gear.
Top speed suffers though!
Thanks,
Tom
Soooo much better than a 6-yo SHO. This has been a long time coming, and I am beside myself right now.
If it weren't going to be like 2 degrees here tonight, I'd be sleeping in it!
Could you describe the racket in any more detail? Does it sound mechanical, or just like there is air in the line? Mine is a low moan, and it's pitch changes as I turn the wheel for the first few times.
Maybe they're just protesting to the cold as LS's in Dallas don't normally wake up to temps in the teens!
If you want to hear a racket you should hear the P/S belts squealing on my El Camino in the cold - never hear anything when it's warm.
Ray B, It sounds like there is a bad bearing along with some cavitating air. It gets louder as you turn the wheel and as you said it disappears after a few 90 degree turns. As I recall my previous 2000 LS had some P/S noise when very cold also. It has been exceptionally cold, it's probably colder here then in WI, and it's probably not a serious issue, but it is annoying nonetheless.
There is also a rattle underneath when it's cold and I had the same rattle on the 2000. I suspect it's from the exhaust pipes. I’ll have them check it out when I bring it in to check for a valve cover leak.
Congratulations on your new LS Chris, any noise this morning? Hope not!
Tom
That weld seam has been problematic for Lincoln to get completely smooth since it is a very long braze. The early models had it the worst. When we were at Mania 2 in Dearborn the engineer said that this seam will probably never be completely smooth. They've made a lot of changes in the way it is brazed, including hand sanding the seam after the brazing, but it will probably continue to be a problem until they do a full redesign of the car.
I've owned (and still do own) a couple of Ford/Lincoln's with the dreaded 3.8L engine. It has a vacuum hose that likes to self distruct and collapse. I don't know of any on the LS engines, but you never know...
I periodically check the resale value of my 2000 V6 Sport - loaded. This past summer the value had steadily decreased to about $24,000 - then all of a sudden - this fall it dropped sharply to $19,000. I could not believe my eyes when I saw that!
I think a couple of factors have really worked against us in creating this situation.
1.) Our beloved LS is a Lincoln. (In case you haven't noticed.) Lincoln as a whole has built a bad reputation as having one of the worst resales over the past decade or so. (ie. the poor quality of the early 90's Continentals, etc.)
2.) Even after 4 years of production, very few people know what the LS really is.
-I saw a 2000 LS at a local F/M dealer about 2 years ago that was marked as a "2000 Lincoln Mark VI." Okay - here's a Ford dealer that has no idea what an LS is.
-I have seen ONE, yes... just ONE of the new LS commercials with the travel well theme - so people STILL don't have a clue of what this car is - BUT - after the Super Bowl - I'll bet they'd be able to recognize a new CTS in a flash...
3.) Most LS probably end up getting sold at an auction where: a.) Its a Lincoln (predetermined Value level) & b.) The people at the auction don't have a clue what the LS really is...
These are just a few conclusions that I've come up with about resale value, but I'm sure the Economy and a whole lot more play into the equation - can we fix this - probably not... can Lincoln? - probably...
Anyone else think that GM only fired half of the Aztek styling team?
And it appears the 1980's pontiac design team was retained for the new GTO. It looks 15 years old and it's not even out yet. I heard it very lonely at the Detroit Auto Show while 100 feet away you couldn't get close to the silver Mustang GT fastback built on the DEW98 (LS, S-type, Tbird) platform.
GUYS!!! thanks
I was going to take a second look at the LS. Even though my first thoughts is that it is really poor quality.
Some people told me to look at the LS instead of the GS300.
I used to have a CADDY (sedan deville) And two dealers treated me with alot of disrepect. So i got my first LEXUS 1999 GS300
I love the car and the dealership. They are so nice and done me alot of favors. Now that my lease is coming due I been look at a lease for around $400 a month for 48 months with 12k miles a year
READING this thread just reminded me of how GM an american dealership treated me. NOW for SURE I will not bother to look at the LS again.
Really thanks for getting my head straight
Anyway, I'll just save the difference between your Toyota and my Lincoln and retire early.
Listen My family has owned AMERICAN cars for over 50 years. Never have we ever looked into any NON-AMERICAN CAR
When my CADDY dealer treated with such non-caring and disrespect. I went to a second dealer. Only to get same type of disrespect. I got the car fixed and 2 weeks later I got my GS300.
(If you need to know details about experiences I will tell you)
I LOVE Lexus service. Also the fact that loaners are avail any time no hassle. Even if you need it for a 30 min oil change. Lexus has been nothing but fantastic for me.
But since My lease is almost up I am looking again. Another thread said that the LS was as good, if not better than the GS. Being an open minded buyer. I was going to go back and look and test drive it. My first impression of car and dealer was not good at all.
After reading this thread how owners are getting disrepected and are worried about how low price there trade-in's are because the car does not hold it's value. This just remined me how how I used to feel about CADDY.
I have never read a Lexus thread "The dealer disrepected me"
I like a CLEAN non-smokey dealership with new carpet. I do not need food or coffee. I do need a loaner when I want it and need it.
If your lincon dealership is as nice as you say and near me I would love to look again.
I am just saying forget about cars for a second and talk about the people who work there. I have been treated very well at lexus. The caddy dealers cancel appointment when i got there. Made me wait 8 hours in waiting room while lying to me that it will be done any minute. When I asked head service guy "Maybe I should go home" Answer was "How Will You GET THERE"!!!
I even called caddy(GM, Head office) after I got my Lexus and told them why I would NEVER be buying their car again. DID GM offer me any incentive to stay with them? Or go back?
NOPE!!!
Not trying to fight with anyone here. just saying this is how I felt after reading this thread. Any help would be great
Yep, there's nothing like the LEXUS EXPERIENCE. We bought a Jag X-Type.
[Names have been witheld to protect the guilty. But since I live in Cincinnati it shouldn't be too hard to find out]
Listen I am not trying to get anyone angry or bent out of shape. You had a BAD salesman and you never asked to speak to the Sales MAnager I would of.
To be quite honest. You were never a customer. Just people going on a test drive lol.
Once you go for service you would never go back. There are BAD salesmen everywhere.
So you like FORD and that is ok. You Bought another FORD. I too looked at the JAG it was not for me.
Have you read most of these messages on this thread? Most are complaints about the service or the resale of the LINCON (FORD)
I am just saying this messageboard talked me out of going back to look at the LS.
I was thanking everyone for there HONESTY.
That is all. Nothing more or less.
All you had to say was that you prefer YOUR Lexus dealer so you bought a Lexus. Keyrow had the exact opposite experience. Don't make broad statements based on limited data.
There are definitely bad Lincoln dealers out there. I am sure there are bad Lexus dealers as well. It is unfortunate that the percentage of bad Lincoln dealers is probably greater.
Lincoln has tremendous commitment to their customers. I have toured the manufacturing plant in Wixom, met with many of the engineers. I have business cards, phone numbers, and email addresses of the people that designed the car. They are available to help if I should have a question or a problem.
One thing that you have not addressed here is the difference in the vehicles. The GS is more of a luxury sedan vs the LS which is much more performance oriented. If you compare driving the GS300 and LS around the twisties there will be a big difference. The LS will win hands down. In addition, you should be able to get an LS V8 for about the price of a GS300. Having test driven both vehicles on the same twisties prior to purchase, there is no comparison. In addition, the 2003 LS has many improvements over the 2002 and still more power. As far as reliability, I have had 2 minor problems, both easily fixed under warranty (14,000 miles).
I believe the difference in vehicles is more important than the difference in dealers.
Feel free to drop me an email at LobsenzA@Rose-Grp.com if you want to talk further.
OK, You have now told us a number of times in your broken English that you will not be considering an LS for your next purchase. Why are you still here? There are many here who feel the LS is the best car they have ever owned. You quote trade in value as an indicator of depreciation......... well trade in value is not the best indicator. You say that dealer dissatisfaction is your main reason for not considering the LS........ that's fine but I would not give up the car I chose because the dealer sucked. Would you buy a Mini Cooper if they were the only "good" dealer in your town? Hell, I only take the car to the dealer for warranty work anyway. In conclusion you made a decision and I respect that now you should only stop back to tell us how nice your new Lexus is.
The only thing I can't really figure out is if you came to this country for a better life and you were given that chance why not buy American? It's like the thousands of foreign doctors who come here to make the big bucks some even getting a free education.............. when they get rolling they buy a Mercedes. You would think.................
I can't believe anyone would base a car purchase on a dealership.
I bought the LS because of the car. Period.
If Ford had the option of selling the car on-line and I never had to step foot in a dealership's doors - THAT would be awesome.
I have taken it back to the dealer for un-expected service exactly two times in three years.
The car is driven hard, over mountain roads on a 130 mile daily round-trip commute.
The rear window regulators have NOT failed. The leather looks as good as when I got it off the lot. I have had nothing fall off, creak, groan or rattle. To this day, I have business associates comment on the quality of the interior. This coming from people who own BMWs/Mercedes/Infiniti/Lexus.
And I can still blow the doors off most of the imitation sports sedans out there. My LS continues to cruise effortlessly at 100 mph without any shakes, shimmies or undue concerns.
My dealer, Rancho Ford in Temecula, has been outstanding in sales and service. I would put them up against any high-end, or in Lexus case, perceived high-end dealership in terms of quality customer care.
I always get a clean loaner, my car is always fixed right the first time.
I was so impressed with Lincoln's commitment to the customer that I bought a Lincoln Navigator for my wife because of the way we have been treated by Lincoln and by the dealership.
So joker...., since you only want to pay $399 a month, stick with your Lexus. Your email obviously shows that you don't look at owning a car long term since you're looking at a new GS300. Let me know when, or more correctly, if, that Lexus will give you as many trouble-free miles as my Lincoln LS has.
- car is still tight and fast, motor still smooth as silk, no squeaks or rattles.
- have had minor quality problems- power window,radio controls etc. dealer response has been good if not quite excellent.
- There are some obvious inprovements needed ( tighter steering,useless sport shift automatic, and cockpit storage etc,)From what I've seen LM is addressing these issues as they refine the line.
All in all I believe the LS will stand up to the Acuras,Lexi, Audi and BMWs in a direct comparison.
The problem we are all observing with resale is that the only reputation the LS has is that of Lincolns in general, whereas the Beemers,acuras etc have established a high quality/durability rep over the years. If LM keeps at it with the LS over a long enough time they'll get there.
The LS has a rep to overcome and rebuild to compete while the competition can rest on theirs.
I'll bet the overall number of problems with all of these cars is not much different and that the difference is narrowing, it's just that a Lincoln problem is "expected" while an Audi problem is probably kept secret by the owner.