Which Hatchback?
Hello Everone! Sorry about that. I'm new to the edmund's townhall website and not sure how to post yet. I'm serious looking into getting a 5 door hatchback. My choices are VW Golf GLS 1.8T, Mazada Protege Sport Wagon, Subura Impreza Wagon (technically a station wagon put close enough to hatchback status), Hyundai Elantra GT, or Ford Focus ZX3. Number one concern is reliability and durability. It would be nice if the car came (or had the option) with four wheel disc brakes, antilock brakes. Decent engine horsepower and torque would be nice. Good gas mileage, say 30 mpg highway? Good cargo space with rear seat up. Would it be too much to ask for decent rear leg room? Need the car to last 1000,000 miles (trying to compare these hatchback reliability to my Toyota---is the reasonabe or fair request?). My budget $18,000 MSRP. Is this do-able? Or am I asking too much from a hatcback. I have the luxury that I can easily wait until late this year or early 2002. Thanks for any advice and suggestion. Just recently found this website and find it very informative.
Leo M.
Leo M.
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My info tells me that the Golf is available either as a 3-door hatch or 4-door sedan, the Protege is only available as a 4-door sedan, the Elantra is only available as a 4-door sedan, and the Focus is only available as a 3-door hatch or 4-door sedan. Unless you're talking used cars, I think the market is VERY small for 5 door hatchbacks (unless you count small SUV's as a 5-door hatchback).
If I'm wrong, someone please set me straight but since the SUV/minivan market has exploded, small wagons and 5-door hatches are almost extinct.
Since you've had good luck with Toyota, howzabout a nice RAV4?
The Golfs are still made in Europe, unlike the Mexican production New Beetles and Jettas though this is supposed to change at some point. Should be reasonably reliable and there is a 10 year, 100k mile powertrain warranty. If you're into the car for the long haul (especially if you start thinking 200k miles rather than 100k miles), I'd also test drive the 1.9L TDI. 18k is going to be tight to buy a 1.8T I fear. The good Impreza model is the forthcoming WRX model, but then you'll be looking at 24k. The Ford is a 3 door.
Of these three, I would recommend the Saturn SW2. But if you can swing the price, the Golf 1.8t would be much more rewarding to drive and own.
Floridian
Thank you for your responses. I believe that I read here on this website that Hyundai Elantra is coming out this spring with it's 5-door hatch back. Also Mazda Protege Sport Wagon--a 5 door hatch back is also coming out later this spring as a 2002 model (seen it here on Edumund's LA Car show). I'm aware that the Ford Focus does come as a 5 door hatchback, at least in Europe, but thought I heard that Ford was bringing it to the States as well---perhaps I'm mistaken with Ford?
Leo
If I can't find what I'd like in a hatchback, I would regrettable cough up the extra cash and go with either the RAV4 or Subaru Forester. Should be able to get those in the low 20's price-wise.
Duverois,
You're probably right in that the VW Golf GLS 1.8T might be a little more than I had planned to spend on a hathback. I would expect my next car to be reliable enough to last at a minimum to 100,000 miles, preferable 200,000 miles--my toyota is close to that mileage (151,000+) and still going strong.
I have several concerns regarding each car. For example on the VE Golf GLS 1.8T does the turbo affect engine wear and durability? Is turbo know to cause any negative effect on engine wear such as head gaskets, etc? Also, this engine require premimum gas which kind of contradicts this hatchback being economical. The back seats seem a little cramp. I can't see how three adults can fit back there. It looks like two would be it's limit and cramped legroom. The cargo area didn't seem very large for a hatchback (with rear seat up). I do like its gutsy engine and that it's standard equipment lis is impressive to say the least. Probably only need tp add an automatic.
The Subara Impreza wagon. Plus: Subara's reliablity, all wheel drive. Negatives: need larger engine such as the 2.5 that goes in it's sedans. More rear legroom and more cargo space with rear seat up. Perhaps Subara will address this in their 2002 wagon model???
Ford Focus-assuming they bring the 5 door hatch back over here. Biggest negative:reliabilty. Which will proably have me exclude it from consideration.
Hyundai Elantra GT. If it's base on its seadan it should have good rear seat legroom. Peppy engine, all wheel disc brakes, ABS either standard oroptional. Hope it has good cargo space. Price the cheapest and has the best warranty. Negative: Questionable reliability. Availability of parts and their cost?
Mazda Protege Sport Wagon. Also looks good. Protege's are known for their spaceous interior. It gets a peppy engine, all wheel disc brakes w/ ABS. Mazda is typically over shadow by Toyota's and Honda's so hopefully they should have good rebates, incentives and financing.
Leo
Personally, I would choose between the Focus, Saturn, Suburu, VW, or Protege (when it is available). I'm just not too wild about the Korean cars. But whatever you do, DRIVE as many of the choices as you can.
If you can wait till June 2001, I've heard 2 sources that state that the 5 door sport from Mazda will be out. If you can wait till Jan 2002, Toyota may be bringing the Matrix with possibly the 1.8L celica engine in it's high end trim.
As for your other 5 door options. The only ones I can think of you found already. The hyundai elantra doesn't make the wagon this year, and I haven't even seen a hint of the supposed hatchback. The gas mileage in korean makes (kia, daewoo, hyundai) is far lower than their japanese counter parts though. If you purchased a VW, you might consider why VW started offering nice powertrain warranty (to bring back customers because of many previous powertrain problems). Also if you buy a german vehicle you have to pay the price for buying german parts when the time comes, and they're often more expensive than japanese or domestic parts. I have heard some nice things about Saturns customer service, and I have heard some horror stories about the problems that previous Saturn owners have had. I personally know of someone who has had to deal with multiple engine leaks etc. Plus, there's that annoying bar that remains in the way when you fold down the split seats. And the cargo cover is such a hastle to get on those little knobs for how easily it gets knocked off. You know how some cargo covers are retractable rollers, the saturn just has a piece of vinyl with some loops on it.
The subaru, nice, but out of our price and gas mileage range (and insurance on a 4WD is more expensive as well)
So in the end this really leaves you with just waiting for the Mazda sportwagon or the Toyota Matrix (I don't know if you'll like the styling of the matrix though)But it does have flat folding seats and sliding tracks for loading. The mazda sportwagon however may have front seats that fold down and can serve as consoles for lab tops, your lunch, etc. Personally, since the protege ranked number 1 by Car and Driver in 2000, I'm setting my sights for room, economy, and performance on the Mazda sportwagon.
interior - http://www.hmc.co.kr/kor/cybermall/product/avantexd/5door/inter.htm
Chuck
I was also interested in the Mazda Sport Wagon, until I heard they're putting Ford's Focus 2.0L engine into it. That's making me reconsidering it as a choice. Hmm, didn't know about the Toyota Matrix. Is going to be a "5 door" hatchback?
Pheo,
Thank you for the pictures of the Elantra. It looks pretty nice! It's still in consideration.
Crahstest,
I was looking at the Impreza Outback Sport. So that might be different than the Outback wagon? I'm not that familiar with Subara. It would be nice with the 2.5 engine. Took the wife to the Subara dealership. She didn't like the air scoope on the hood--made it look too sport --I'm thinking what's wrong with that
Leo
Leo
Pete
THANK YOU!!!
Leo
Leo
After moving last fall I now make a weekly 130-mile drive in middle of the night from California's High Desert to the coast. I encountered some snow and ice and decided it was time to put my aging '85 Nissan 300ZX Turbo aside for Saturday nights and buy a compact commuter car.
Choosing such a vehicle would be a compromise. I work and am housed on an off-shore island throughout the week so had little time to get out to all the dealers and test them all. I went online to do most of my window shopping. Based on comments and the warranty I decided to test drive a 2001 Spectra.
Before visiting the dealer I had the upscale GSX model in mind but was put-off by the upholstery and accent striping. I decided to forego some of the amenities and test drive the base GS models, both automatic and 5-speed.
Mindful of comments I heard about the brakes, I did not experience any fade; I heard that may have been the only improvement made for 2001.
I put about 20 freeway miles and several miles of twisty mountain roads on the 5-speed. The automatic I just drove locally but was particularly enthused. I saw in the specs that the torque curve was in the higher revs. Keeping the RPMs up it was surprisingly peppy and agile cornering.
Satisfied, I bought a silver 5-speed GS with air conditioning. With floor mats, body molding strips, A/C, and destination charges, subtract the rebates, I paid $11.8K. Also worth mentioning is this is the FIRST time a dealer did not try to pad the price with add-ons like prep, extended warranty, or under-coating charges. What I saw on the lot is what I got, minus the rebates.
At first my heavy-footed combined driving was getting about 28 MPG. Now after break-in I am getting a shade better than 30. On the highway this car likes to cruise along around 75-80 and is more than willing to go faster. No shakes or squeaks it is quiet but seems to have a sports-tuned exhaust at the higher revs, which adds a little zest to the driving.
It is very roomy. I'm 6-foot and about 195 lbs. Larger cars have felt cramped in comparison. The seats have a lot of adjustment and are very comfortable for my two-and-a-half hour drive. It keeps getting better, I love to drive it. I felt embarrassed to be seen driving a KIA at first, now I'm proud of it.
The only complaint I have is the long clutch and shifter throws. The shifter seems a little unsure and has taken some getting used to. I may look for an after-market shifter to correct this. Can someone out there recommend one?
I bought this for basic transportation, but I just love the car. I hope this helps.
Ken
The new Protege hatch is hot too. I would think it's the same size as the Impreza.
Focus does have a 5dr hatch but it's not offered here. Only in Europe. Look real neato.
Golf 5drs are good too. Abit pricy. If you absolutely want interior luxury then opt for a 1.8T golf 5dr. I doubt it has as much overall space as the Protege, Impreza and Focus 5drs. Yup. That's it.
If Subura did put a 2.5L engine in their next generation Impreza Outback SPort Wagon (hatch back) that would put it back in the contender ring. If they increase the rear leg room, that would be even better.
I'm looking for reliable vehicle that can reach close to 200,000 miles. Hopefully the vehicle won't be too expensive for parts and readily accessible. The 2001 Protege gets the 2.0L 626 engine. I heard Mazda's are good alternative for people who consider Honda's and Toyota's. So I hope Maxda's come close to Honda's and Toyota's reliability. I don't know how good the 2.0L 626 engines are.
How reliable are Subaru's? Don't know anything about them. How expensive are parts and are they redily accessible?
Leo
Here's the official press
release:
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/010208/il_subaru__2.html
And the prices:
WRX Sedan 2002MY MSRP*
--
5-Speed Manual Transmission $23,995
-- 4-Speed
Automatic Transmission $24,995
WRX Sport Wagon
--
5-Speed Manual Transmission $23,495
-- 4-Speed
Automatic Transmission $24,495
2.5 RS Sedan
--
5-Speed Manual Transmission $18,995
-- 4-Speed
Automatic Transmission $19,795
2.5 TS Sport
Wagon
-- 5-Speed Manual Transmission $17,495
-- 4-Speed
Automatic Transmission $18,295
Outback Sport
--
5-Speed Manual Transmission $18,695
-- 4-Speed
Automatic Transmission $19,495
Another question for you. Are turbo's supposedly hard on engine wear?
last question, how are they on gas mileage since their AWD.
sorry for all the questions, but my knowledge on Subura is (apparently) quite lacking.
thanks for the help.
Leo
The turbo will not destroy the engine. Assuming you take care of it (regular oil change etc...) it will last quite a while.
Subaru's AWD is apparently quite efficient. Small and lighter than the competitor's AWD system. Gas mileage may not be like an echo. You should be able to net at least 25mpg on the road. All the best.
Leo
Pocahontas
Host
Hatchbacks Message Board
Unfortunately the only real measure of quality is not usually available for new models and that is how will the car hold up 2+ years into its life.
Just like you I am in the market for a reasonably priced 5-door hatch. And you're right -- this is going to be a great year for such vehicles.
I am also leaning very heavily toward the Elantra GT, but one vehicle that has drawn my attention is the upcoming Pontiac Vibe. It has a wagon's styling but looks sporty nonetheless. However, it won't be available until next year and I don't know if I can wait that long. I believe the early indicators are that it will sell between $17-$19k. It's got Toyota underpinnings so the reliability should be there.
I saw several of the Mazda Sport Wagons when I was honeymooning in Bermuda last summer. They were really slick. IMO, Mazda is a very underrated car company. However, I'm thinking that the Sport Wagon will be pricey compared to the Elantra. Look at Mazda's Protege -- to get the "good" model, you're looking at paying 17 grand.
I won't get into the Elantra since there is already a topic on that model. Performance matters aside, I feel it has the best feature content for the dollar. Hyundai seems to have nailed the value equation. And if anyone sneers at me for choosing a Korean car, I'll just tell them to stuff a sock in it. Then I'll go buy two plane tickets and take a vacation with the money I saved!
PS - Leo, your profile states you are from Pittsburgh. Me, too. I grew up in Mt. Lebanon and now I'm a displaced Pirates fan living in New Jersey. Go Buccos!!
Good luck in your search.
The Toyota Matrix/Pontiac Vibe looks like a nice hatchback. Only heard pricing of Toyota Matrix is slightly under the Rav4 but no specifics. GM version should be cheaper.
Just seen the price on the Elantra GT here on the HB borad. Base price starts at 14 grand. Add options should max out around 16 grand.
Mazda is around 16 grand base, add options and your in the 18-19 range.
VW Golfs are expensive too. So much for economy HB. They're close to the 20 grand mark by time taxes, title etc. Ouch! Car prices have gone sky high.
They wife and I are also looking at Subaru Foresters or Rav 4s. Not to much more $$$ than a comfortably equiped HB. Got sticker shock from these new car prices. Going to see if I can hold off if at all posible. I'll try to run my current car into the ground. Don't look forward to car payments.
Leo
Thanks.
P.., it must be spring, because Pirate fans are excited about the baseball season. Even here in AC people are talking about the Royals make a run at the playoffs. We'll see.
Speaking of hatchbacks, I read in Automobile magazine that Honda is coming back into this market segment with its European Civic hatchback! It's supposed to be introduced at the New York international car show this summer. According to the mag, I think it's supposed to arrive here in Si form. I think the car looks pretty cool...
http://www.honda.co.uk/civic.html
Regarding the Elantra. My parent have the 2000 Elantra. Surprised by how nice they are, nice roomy interior especially the rear seat. Peppy engine too.
Leo
Leo
Leo
Leo
Leo
Leo
Erik
Matrix could show up as early as this summer or fall as an early 02. The Vibe is set for 03. MPG with the base Rav-4 4 cylinder is about 27/32 with the automatic. Sticker to start around $15K. A sport version will have the Celica 4 at around 180hp, 6 speed manual and all-wheel drive.
Sounds like it is worth waiting for to see if it is a baby Rav-4 or a souped up Echo with 5 doors.
No one has discussed the Subaru Impreza TS Sport Wagon, which probably fits into this category too. It has a shape that seems very similar to the Protege5 (Sport Wagon). This one is actually currently available too. It is somewhat pricier than I expect the Protege5 to be, but does include AWD. It's considerably less pricy than the Impreza WRX Wagon (although obviously less powerful).
I find that the hatch area (if that is the correct word) on the Golf is really small. It is almost like having virtually no space at all behind the rear seats. (Obviously if you put the seats down you will get more room, but that isn't what I want generally.) The Golf almost seems to be a Jetta with the trunk cut off, while most other HBs are the same length (or just slightly shorter) than their corresponding sedan.
The Elantra GT is a much sleeker looking HB than the Protege5, but that means that the cargo room would be somewhat smaller. It is all in what you like. Personally, I'm still inclining toward the Protege5, but there is way more choice than I expected when I started my research.
Nomi
I have seen pics of next year's Spectra, the Spectra Wing. It has a restyled front end with chrome grille. The styling is much bolder than the current Spectra and more people should find it attractive. -SK
For your convenience, I'll also be linking this discussion into the Additional Resources box on the left hand side of this page.
Happy Motoring!
Pocahontas
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Hatchbacks/Station Wagons Message Boards