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Upcoming Wagons & Crossovers

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  • revkarevka Posts: 1,750
    Information on the 2004 BMW 5 Series Midsize Wagon is now available in Edmunds' Future Vehicle Section. Check it out and let us know what you think!

    Spy Photo of the 2004 BMW 5 Series 4dr Wagon:
    image

    For more discussion on this subject, come join us in our ongoing BMW 5 Series Sport Wagons discussion, from post #205. Thanks for your participation!

    Revka
    Host
    Hatchbacks & Wagons Boards
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Boxy rear looks better than the sedan, but I bet it gets that same ugly face. Bangle is ruining BMW design.

    -juice
  • porknbeansporknbeans Posts: 464
    The butt looks bloated to me. The rear quarter around the wheel well looks like it needs to be trimmed up slightly.
    Porknbeans

    Grand High Poobah
    The Fraternal Order of Procrastinators
  • C'Mon, Acura... you know we want it! Jump on in to the crossover waters!!

    image

    Ah, a TSX PShop-wagon isn't what I want...

    image

    Yikes! Be careful what you wish for!!
    http://www.jdpa.com/businessservices/automotive/publications/powe- rreport/200307/0703_ss1.htm
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    They already make a euro Accord wagon, so it would be cake.

    Add AWD and lift it slightly and voila, you have a crossover.

    -juice
  • lancerfixerlancerfixer Posts: 1,308
    I'd take a TSX wagon as-is!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I would too, but it's tough to make a business case for plain wagons in the US.

    -juice
  • hesitanthesitant Posts: 17
    Help. I have a family with two teenagers, a pre-teen, and a child. I have driven a full-size van for the last 12 years and now want a smaller vehicle that has fun new features, a sun roof, a comfortable ride, is quiet inside, gets good gas mileage, has rear air conditioning control (I would also prefer dual front air control), and really fits the 6 of us. I do not want a mini-van (just tired of vans. I'd like to hear from anyone who has bought or even tried out some good vehicles for 6. Are any of the future ones worth waiting for, or are there some good choices out there now?

    I have been searching and comparing vehicles on this site for quite a while, but I have to go a long way before I find out if it only seats 5. For example, I just decided to consider wagons since many of the new ones are quite sporty looking. But they don't tell me right off how many they seat. Or if I ask for comparison vehicles to something like the Honda Pilot which seats 8, it puts up others that only seat 5.

    I have driven and considered the Chrysler Pacifica, Volvo S80 (actually can get 4 in the back seat), and the Acura MDX. I would like to see a Honda Pilot but can't locate one in my area, and received a message from Edmunds that local dealers would contact me, but that was a week ago and I haven't heard anything.

    I have not driven them yet, but I understand that I can get a bench front seat for the Toyota Avalon and the Dodge Intrepid. But Edmunds comments that the Avalon is pricey and I suspect that the Intrepid is not close enough to the luxury ride that I would like to come close to for an in-between price. My husband wants to consider a Ford Expedition because they are on sale in our area for about $6,000 off right now, but I haven't driven one and your site says that it drives as big as it looks. I don't want another BIG car! We've looked at vehicles priced up to $40,000, most being in the $35,000 range. However, my husband would like to stay in the $25-30,000 price range, and I suspect I may need to go with a used vehicle to hit that.

    Any comments about the vehicles that I have mentioned, or about any wagons or other vehicles, new or used, would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
  • Wow...it sounds like you are looking for the Holy Grail of family transportation.

    Here are my thoughts...

    1) If you're coming out of a full size van, and need comfortable seating for 6, scratch those sedans off your list right away! Yeah the avalon does offer a bench front seat - but the middle occupant rides second class due to the hump on the floor from the driveshaft. Also, I believe there is no headrest for the middle seat either. The plus of the avalon is that it is in your price range.

    2) While the "sport wagons" are nice, only a few offer additional seating for more than 5. You might consider the Pacifica in this group - but I think it tends to emphasize luxury cruiser, not sporty. The other true wagons with the extra seats have a third row that is rear-facing in the cargo area. These seats are only suitable for kids and some question the safety of these seats.

    3) SUV's that seat more than 5 with good gas milage (read >17 MPG in the city) are few. The Honda Pilot, Acura MDX, and Volvo XC90 with the 2.5T engine are ones that come to mind. The honda would be the value leader of the group and comes closest to your husband's target price. The ride in the Pilot is a little less "sportier" than the MDX. But if you have test driven the MDX, you will have a pretty good idea as to what to expect with the Pilot's ride. Don't expect Honda dealers calling you about the Pilot (even with you're inquiry). If you're interested in it, I think you'll have to be more proactive due to the demand for the vehicle.

    4) I know you said no minivan, but the Toyota Sienna and Nissan quest have a lot of what you are looking for.

    Just my few cents.

    Good luck

    George
  • lancerfixerlancerfixer Posts: 1,308
    I dunno...Volvo, Subaru, and VW seem to do ok with their wagon offerings. A TSX wagon would never be a volume leader, but all the engineering grunt work has already been done. It wouldn't require a huge investment, other than certification and marketing. I'd buy one.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Could be, I'd like to see it.

    Seats for 6? Vans are generally more fuel efficient, since you mentioned that, but check out the Pilot, Rendezvous, MDX, Pacifica, etc.

    -juice
  • revkarevka Posts: 1,750
    From Edmunds' Headlines section: Chevy Plans Retro HHR. Also, come share your thoughts in our new Chevrolet HHR wagon discussion. Thanks for your participation!

    Revka
    Host
    Hatchbacks & Wagons Boards
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Interesting. Should be more useful than the SSR.

    -juice
  • ropedartropedart Posts: 163
    Its coming and it looks like a baby MDX with suicide doors according to Motortrend. Basically a luxury Element with hybrid drivetrain. I expect the Element by 2006 to get painted cladding as a LX model and get a whole bunch more interested buyers. Even though it will cost thousands more for the paint. It does not matter how much you market the thing as tough and rugged people still want to wax and shine and preen over their SUVs. Shiny paint helps that. I know I own an Element and all the owners baby their things.

    http://motortrend.com/future/spied/112_0308_news_sketch/
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Wondering if anyone has info on the the Freestyle. Is it going to happen? Stopped by a Ford dealer recently and curiously, none of the sales people even heard of it. They insisted I was talking about the Freestar. Had to sit them down at their on computers and point it out online.

    BTW the BMW 5 wagon above looks like a hearse.
  • revkarevka Posts: 1,750
    ropedart - Post #208. Thanks for the information!

    designman - Have you had a chance to check out our Ford Freestyle discussion? Good luck.

    Revka
    Host
    Hatchbacks & Wagons Boards
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Thanks, Revka. Missed it. Will go there.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I don't see how the RDX does anything the MDX can't do better.

    I dunno, maybe it'll be sportier, like the FX45 is.

    -juice
  • xplorx4xplorx4 Posts: 621
    image

    I didn't find any posts about this after a brief search. Does anyone have any comments on an upcoming Honda "truck"?

    What makes a truck a "truck"? Is it the bed? Must it have a 1/2-ton minimum carrying capacity? Body-on-frame construction? Is an El Camino a "truck"? How about a Subaru Baja?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    That sketch is very aggressive looking. I think the actual one will basically be a Pilot with a small bed in place of its 3rd row and enclosed cargo hold.

    It should still be a unibody, indy rear suspension, basically a light duty car-based crew cab, would be my guess. The 3.5l engine has adequate power, but payload and towing will be limited compared to body-on-frame trucks.

    What makes a truck a truck. Well, it's pretty arbitrary nowadays. The PT Cruiser is a truck only because it's rear seat is removeable. The Baja is considered a truck because is has a seperate bed, even though it's also a car-based unibody.

    IMO, both of those are a mix of the two, or crossovers, if you will.

    -juice
  • revkarevka Posts: 1,750
    To everyone - Just a reminder that if you don't own the photo, we ask that you please just post a hyper-link to the photo, instead of embedding it directly into the message.

    Please note: Our Town Hall Member Agreement policy forbids postings that might "infringe in any manner on the copyright, trademark or intellectual property rights of any person or other entity." Feel free to email me (revka@edmunds.com) if you have any further questions/comments regarding this matter; please do not address this with me here.

    And now, back to the subject of the Upcoming Wagon and Crossovers. Thanks! ;-)
     
    Revka
    Host
    Hatchbacks & Wagons Boards
  • maxx4memaxx4me Posts: 1,340
    I'll believe it when I see it. Honda already makes an Accord Wagon in Japan, which they will NEVER send to the US because it will cut into their enormous profits made on their small SUVs. I would think the same logic would apply to a pickup truck, no?
  • odmanodman Posts: 309
    Hey Maxx:
    Accord wagons never really did that well in North America so it's no surprise that HMC is trying to have CR-V's and Odyssey's take care of that market (I'd love a European Accord Tourer!). The truck argument is a bit different -- America is unique in the world (apart from Thailand) for loving the idea of an open bed vehicle. Honda has missed out on this, and has seen both Toyota and Nissan capture additional sales, without sacrificing their SUV sales, by catering to that market.

    Honda's truck won't be a real, body-on-frame style truck, but it probably doesn't need to be for the type of buyer who will want a Honda truck. I don't think it will be high volume, but it will have appeal, and from HMC's perspective, it beats handing the truck sale to Toyota or Nissan.
  • would this mean Honda might have to come out with a V8??? I wouldn't want even a Honda V6 in something that looks that big... For example the Base model Chevy Silverado with a 4.3L V6, talk about slow!!!
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 22,104
    The Pilot is over 4400 lbs. and gets along quite well with the current v6 and 5-speed auto. As a matter of fact, its quicker than several v8 trucks I could name.

    '17 F150 Crew 2.7; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '09 LR2 HSE. 44-car history and counting!

  • the "truck" by Honda could never really compete with Silverado/F-150/Ram/EVEN Tundra without 4wd and good towing compacity and neither of those will come without a V8 and more low end torque.
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 8,862
    I don't think the Honda truck has any aspiration of replacing the F150, Silverado, Ram, et all as a heavy hauling truck. AFAIK, the Honda truck will be offered in a full 4 door only with Pilot underpinnings - 6 cylinder only although Honda supposedly has access to GM V-8's as part of it's V-6 supply contract.

    It will probably target the traditional Honda buyer who now leaves the fold when the need for a truck arises. They want the Honda ride and quality with pickup truck utility without having to pay for poor gas mileage and rough ride everyday. IMHO, it will target my family who wants the 4 door utility for family hauling but needs to haul plants, mulch, and the occasional bathtub. The AWD really isn't a required feature for us but I presume that's the only way it'll be offered.

    Honda recognizes that it's customers go elsewhere for certain vehicles. That's why it created the current Odyssey, CRV, and Pilot.
  • I guess you havn't riden in a Silverado lately... well i have and it's far from a Rough Ride, and i've heard many things about the New f-150 and how it has a "car-like" ride.
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 8,862
    You are right - the 03 GMC I recently drove had a better ride than the trucks I usually drive:

    an 89 F150
    an 88 Dodge Ram 50
    a 98 Toyota Tacoma.

    I guess what I meant is that the Honda truck will probably handle close to the vehicle it is based on - basically the Accord and it won't have to contend with carrying around a frame and transfer case. It will be a more of a trucklet. It will take some sales away from the big 3 by keeping current Honda owners but not enough to make a difference. Those guys need to watch out for Nissan and Toyota.

    I'd be more inclined to drive this trucklet than a real truck in my everyday commuting life.
  • xplorx4xplorx4 Posts: 621
    My guess is that the Honda truck, in addition to providing a more carlike ride, will also have very good fuel economy and low emissions. This new vehicle will basically compete with smaller vehicles like the Frontier CrewCab, the Subaru Baja, and the Tacoma 4dr. It will be interesting to see how the vehicle is classified; trucks do not have to conform to the same safety standards as cars.
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