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The only thing the Focus has is a marginal advantage in speed. If that's all you judge your cars on then you are right then the Focus is the "better" car. I find the Focus is at best the faster car. But "better"???...No way.
The Si has an advantage in reputation, safety, and efficiency. A very severe one when it comes to rear passenger safety. Now if that's not enough to make the Si the better car to you then I guess we will never come to an agreement. But to more rational consumers if you tell them that there was a 26% chance of injury in a side impact crash in the Focus, they would place that at a much higher priority than .3 -.6 seconds to 60.Additionally there's that 6 mpg fuel economy difference. That's a significant difference. Many people choose 4 cylinder engines over V6's for smaller difference in mpg.
Thank god for choices. And the people to make em.
What you missed is that I said it's value to customers was not $19,000 so they had to discount it. The 2000 still has more value to consumers than the 2002.
The Focus may be faster but that's about it.
R@T quotes: "It's a laudably well-rounded package that offers the most civilized ride, the lowest noise levels, and the most generous rear-seat knee room.""The Si may not be the most exciting car from the enthusiast's standpoint, but there's no denying that it does just about everything amazingly well."
Sure the SVT is faster but the buck stops there.The Civic's list of pluses the Focus can't touch..1. Safety. Front and rear (especially the rear) and the additional safety of EBD to go along with the ABS.2. Economy. Mpg is over 6.6 better than the Focus according to R@T. Cars tested on the same day and conditions.3. Reliability. Hondas have historically been bullet-proof especially long term. Focus's haven't.4. And since you used European car of the year, the Civic has a racing pedigree there in the BTC Production class."Civic Type-Rs have competed in both touring races and rallies across Europe and Asia, with 10 championship wins this season including success in the production class of the British Touring Car Championship, the Portuguese Touring Car Championship and a class victory in the German Rally Championship." http://www.motorsportvortex.com/artman/publish/printer_1860.shtmlI know it's a Type-R but the U.S. Focus is obviously just as foreign to the European one.
So as I have said the Focus may be faster (by .1 sec to the quarter mile in the R@T test) but that's about it. In any other measure that you would compare vehicles the Focus comes up short.
Plus with the SVT, you also get 17' and leather. for less. want traction control? Add it on, and it still costs less. However, I cannot say for all areas, but where I live, Ford excludes SVTs from 0% financing because they don't need incentives to sell them, they are going off the lots pretty fast. Someone said
Worried about side crash ratings? The SVT has standard side airbags, and it improves the score of the front occupants. However if you are frequently using the rear seat, why not get the 5-door SVT. It has a much better crash rating because of its b-pillar. From : http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/NCAP/Cars/2003Cmpt.htmlSI - Front 5-5 Side 4-4 Rollover 4Focus 4dr (similar structure to 5-dr SVT)Front 5-4- Side 3(Front, 2-dr got 4stars, don't know why) Side Rear -4 Rollover 4Big Difference? Spend the 2000 on extra life insurance if you're are concerned.
Fuel Economy? You're comparing performance version of these cars. SVT has a power advantage so it sucks up more gas. SI has less power, so it uses less gas. It is a simple trade-off, this depends on your own priorities.
Styling - This is very subjective. I like the focus styling. Some prefer the SI. Some hate both. Buy the one you like better, but don't try to force everyone on your beliefs. Ford used the same styling since 99(in Europe), some say honda borrowed some styling cues from the focus. But I do believe the focus is due for a facelift, (03 models do get a minor one, but a new focus is coming soon) The SI does look fresh, and does have a more unique look, because no other honda in US share the hatchback platform while ford also sells the ZX3/5.
Reliablity - European produced focuses are the most reliable, but they don't produce SVTs, so its not 100% relevant. However, the Flint plant that has a lot of problems creating the sedan and wagon, do not produce the SVT, so their mistakes do not directly affect the SVT's reliability. The SVT is produced in mexico with the other hatchbacks. The mexican focuses have not been affected by the same problems in flint, and based on forum posts, have a better relability (compared to the flint cars). Honda produces reliable cars, especially in their european plants. Why doesn't ford produce the SVT in europe, and bring a competitor to honda.
Civic Type R- well, if you're comparing non US-version of the civic, you might as well compare the focus RS, or the ST170, or even the focus cosworth, all way too expensive to be profitable in north america.
Ford and Honda merger, if only they learned from torota and gm. Boring but reliable + good styling = $$$.
Still not convinced (about either). TEST DRIVE it yourself. See how each drives. Each has their own characteristics. You don't pick your wife from forums without spending time to know her, don't pick your car the same way. You will probably spend more time with your car than your wife, and you may even have more fun with your car than your wife. However, some people are very loyal to a particuar brand and cannot live without the H or blue oval, and thats okay, but compare objectively.
The main reason why people pay 19k for a car they could buy the base version for 13k is because they are fun to drive. the extra power, the nicer styling, the toys, etc. Reliability and safety are similar between the base and performance models. Please, someone talk about how each car drives like!
Instead of trying to find fault in another car to try to boost your own car, why not just concentrate on your car.
Personally story - I'm trying to loose weight (5'9" 165lbs). Ideally I would like to be at 150lbs. You don't see me hanging around people who are fatter than me to make myself feel better? Who cares if other people are fatter than me. I just care about myself.
Do I care if Focus has so many recalls?? I only care that the Si doesn't suffer the same. I don't praise my Si by saying the Focus is unsafe, unreliable,(insert what other comments you usually make). I criticize the Si so that Honda will make it better. Although it is not like Honda is reading this forum. If it is up to Honda and the greedy salesperson, they'll sell the Si for as much as they want. Fortunately Honda missed the mark and due to the lack luster sales coz' of better car offerings from competition, they are forced to sell it to me at $3460 below MSRP or $1800 below invoice. Do you seriously think Honda lowered the price coz' the bean counters believe they overpriced the car based on what they are offering?? Heck no! They had to do it coz' of competition. Other car makers are offering more for less money and looks like in US, only you and gee35coupe buy into the, Honda - must be good quality, mentality coz' there's so no one else buying the Si unless it is sold at $17k, $16k, $15k and $14k.
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