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Pontiac GTO



  • hammen2hammen2 Posts: 1,313
    Is it the inside of the mirror surround, or the mirror plastic itself that is chipped/marred? What color? Maybe they can swap with another identical color on their lot, otherwise they may have to order and

    The 18's are definitely a summer-only tire. I do not believe that they are better in rain than the stock 17's. They probably will make the car ride worse but handle better, since the Monaros are all sold with 18" wheels from the factory, and thus the suspension geometry is set up for the 18's...

  • The front view is simply awesome. The rear fascia does seem a little deep. The '05 went a long way towards cleaning it up.
  • personally I like the badges on the fenders. It's great when you are stopped and the person in the next car is stareing at them. You can see the wheels in their heads turning.

    The Mustang people are always saying how the Mustang is so instantly recognizable. Funny, now I'm seeing '05's with decals spelling out Mustang. I guess that's the opposite of de-badging. Should that be called badging-plus or something?
  • Wonder what they did to that 389 to get 575 hp out of it?
  • zingerzinger Posts: 61
    Robert it is torrid red. It is the plastic shell around the mirror on the outside.

    I am still on the fence - I know everyone here is going to love this but I dont want to give up my 00 Celica GTS 6 SP which handles and brakes unbelievably. But is a little short on zip.


  • b4zb4z Posts: 3,372
    Just a FYI for GTO owners considering new wheels.
    Ronal is a supplier to Audi and makes very high
    quality wheels. They have a wheel called the R41 that fits
    the GTO with absolutley no rubbing issues with a 245 section tire.(unlike the factory 18s).

    They also added a "Hi Polish" option that is at the bottom of the page.

    I have the 18X8 wheel in sterling silver with BFG KDWs on my '04 GTO.
    The KDWs are a huge improvement over the stock tires.
    You don't really know how bad they are until you launch the car harder than you have before or take an offramp faster than you thought you could.
  • emd567emd567 Posts: 15
    That's why I like it. It does not stand out(unless you get the zonkers yellow) and most folks will mistake it for a Grand Prix until it's too late, and all they see is taillights. This also goes for the cops. who might not jump if they think it's just a mom and pop car. Mustangs, Chargers, I can spot them from a mile away- the GTO-forget it until I am right on top of it, and I am looking for it. :)
  • You guys will think I'm crazy, but I'm starting to miss the smoother ride from my bonneville that I traded for the GTO. The GTO feels really solid but some days I wish the ride was a little more forgiving on the concrete joints and patched roads. Has anyone replaced the stock tires to achieve a softer ride or the GTO suspension going to be prone to a hard/firm ride. Any ideas for a bonneville convert?
  • white6white6 Posts: 588
    I replaced the stock BFG's with a set of Avon TechM550 A/S tires from Tirerack. This is a ultra high performance all-season tire that accumulated great reviews for good ride and noise characteristics. I concur. They are a significant improvement over the OEM tires... softer ride, less noise, and I can't really tell any difference in handling. Of course, I don't autocross or track my GTO; it's a "fair weather daily driver." I also opted for the 235-size to help with the known strut-rub problem up front as well as to reduce impact harshness. Narrower cross section will, all else being equal, help in that area. The difference in outside diameter was very small (about 2%) and, anyway, I had the guys at RWTD custom tune my Diablosport Predator handheld tuner to compensate for the small speedo error, plus the built in manufacturer error (about 3%) and now my speedo is right on the money. I suppose I probably lost that last 5-10% of at-the-limit stick, but in the meantime the car is much more enjoyable to drive. I had to temporarily swap back to the OEM rubber a couple of months ago, and I can tell you I did not delay getting the Avon's back on. Hope this helps.
  • Thanks for the info.
    I'm not familiar with that brand, but thought about checking out the Tirerack web site for any advice. I'll check out the Avon Tech. Some days I feel like I'm driving on steel rails and just thought a tire swap might help provide a softer ride and eliminate some of the tire noise that primarily comes from the rear and when driving on concrete roadways. Did your Avon 235 size fit ok on the stock rims or did you upgrade the rims too.? Have to admit, I've seen some pretty sharp rims that I think would really add to the GTO's overall look.
  • eliaselias Posts: 2,120
    white6 , what ratio on those 235 tires? 50s? 45s? factory 17s are 245/45? you guys complaining about GTOs ride must not have been f-body drivers before - the GTO rides like a caddy compared to the f-body cars !
  • white6white6 Posts: 588
    They are 235-45-17's on OEM BMW Style 119 wheels (17 x 8). Actually, I've owned nine F-body's over the last 28 years. My first car was a 1969 Camaro, then 74, then 79, then 84 (L69 Z28), then 86 (Crossfire-injected Z28). In 87 I switched to a Firebird Formula. Also had a 89 Firebird Formula 350. My first 4th gen was a 2000 V-6 Firebird (trying to be responsible by buying the V-6) and traded it a year later for a 2001 Formula. Strangely enough, that 01 Formy (on the OEM 16-inch Goodyears) didn't ride much worse than the goat. It's not so much that I am "complaining" about ride, I just don't see any reason for a harsh, noisy ride if it can be helped. And in the case of the GTO, the OEM tires are a significant part of the equation. Lots of people put wider, lower-profile tires on their GTO's that, I am quite sure, degrade the ride characteristics horribly. They want something different from their car than I do... more power to them! :D
  • I agree with you that many of the people that criticize the GTO never drove or sat in one. All they point out is it's dull styling, but they slightly improved that for 2005 with the scoops and dual exhaust rear facia. It is one of best performance cars for it's price. It has arguably GM's best interior quality & Seats. Better then the Vette which $15k more.

    The B Bodies do not have great value. Maybe above avg for an American make, however Our 1992 Caprice wagon 5.7L V8 in pretty good shape with about 75k miles is only worth about $3k today, if that.

    With the REd Tag sale you can buy a brand new 2005 GTO for $29,800 by me. Thats not much more then a V8 Mustang.
  • Ones that criticize the styling of the GTO forget that it's
    2005 not 1967. The styling is basically in line with the modern day look of most high performance coups from most automakers. I've not had one person young or old say they didn't like the looks of my 05. It's all been positive.
    Not to mention whats under the hood which speaks for itself. With the pricing now under 30 grand there is not a performance car on the road for the price, that gives as much bang for the buck than the GTO. Including the highly
    touted Mustang GT.
  • eliaselias Posts: 2,120
    thanks for the tire info, white6. ok, so i thought i was a big-time f-body owner with 5 over 23 years, but i bow to your more prolific f-body ownership experience! me: 77 bird 305 automatic (bought used in 82), 85 Z 4bbl 305 5-spd tall-gearing, 89 iroc 305 TPI 5speed short-gears & dual-cats, 94 z28 automatic, 96 Z 6-spd, 2000 Z hurst 6-spd.
    fwiw, i recall my 00 Z28 (16" wheels like your 01) rode significantly harsher than the goat. but my memory could be wrong - i have not done a 'side by side' or 'one after another' comparison.
    one thing i really miss in the 05 goat compared to the 00 Z is the 6-spd hurst!
  • b4zb4z Posts: 3,372
    This is the first I have heard of somebody complaining about the GTO's ride quality. I tis prbably the best riding perfromance car I have been in.

    Stupid question, but have you checked your tire pressures?
    These things come off the boat with over 50lbs of air in them.
    Many dealerships forget tothe lower the pressure during PDI.
    All 3 GTOs I test drove had over 50lbs of air in their tires.
    It drives like a different car with correct pressure.
    I am runnning 245/40-18 KDWs and the ride quality is only slightly harder than the stock 17s.
    Which are aweful tires.
  • I'll check the air pressure tonight. I've read elsewhere, that lowering from the recommended 35psi to 30-32 provides a little softer ride. I'm sure for a performance car, the GTO exhibits a great ride. But I was comparing it to my former ride (02 bonny) that had a much smoother ride. Just trying to get the best of both worlds!
    b4z: What do you mean about the stock 17s when you say, "which are aweful tires". Are you referring to ride/noise quality?
  • I fell in love with the GTO not more than two weeks ago. I always knew about its existence, but never really paid much attention. I always thought of it as a large Sunfire, but I decided to visit a dealership and check one out. They had an '05 Black/Black, which is absolutely beautiful!!! Wow, I am amazed that this car doesn't sell as fast as Solstice, but I like that it is rather rare. It reminds me of BMW 6-series. I was truly impressed with the fit and finish and 400 horses speak for themselves. I haven't had the courage to test drive one as I would most likely leave with it that night. Back seat was exceptionally roomy for a coupe. Anyway, I have a few questions before I commit myself:
    1. Why is there such a big difference in gas mileage bet. 6speed and AT at highway speeds? Can you post rpm at 70mph for both versions (I assume the higher consumption with AT is due to higher rpm).
    2. Has anyone tried to modify the seat motor to make it move faster in order to shorten the loading/unloading of rear seat passengers?
    3. How does the car behave in winter time (in Chicago)? Is putting winter tires an absolute necessity?

    Thanks for any help!
  • I certainly don't blame you for being afraid to test drive the car. I took one home to my wife and returned the next day and bought a Yellow Jacket 6-speed. The reason why the 6-speed is more economical is because the overdrive is so much deeper. 5th and 6th gears are both overdrive, and the engine only turns about 2000rpm's at 80mph.

    I have not heard of any modifications on the seat motors, but wish there was something out there, because loading the kids in and out of the back seat is a pain!!

    As far as winter driving, I haven't had mine in ice or snow yet, but the traction control works very well on wet pavement, unless you stab the throttle too hard. The car will get completely out of shape before the traction control kicks in if you get after it too hard.

    Overall, I'm very pleased with the car. I installed a B&M Rip Shifter last weekend, and it is AWESOME. What a huge difference. All the gears are much easier to find now, and the throw seems half as long. I've got a K&N, JBA headers, and a Corsa cat back ordered and will install over the weekend, which should bring another 30-40hp easily.
  • eliaselias Posts: 2,120
    the 2006s have faster seat motors. maybe it's possible to retrofit the 2006 motor onto an 04 or 05. i rapped with a gm parts guy for a while while he looked up parts and we couldn't find a small replacable/orderable item, just some huge seat assembly which maybe included the whole seat or something like that. i dunno but i know that GM prophet hammen2 will know. he is omniscient about GTOs and GM!
    as far as tires go, the stock 17s bfgoodrich TAs are really that bad? c'mon. i remember folks hating on the Z28 RSA tires and i tried them once and they weren't bad. i did like the ZR50/VR50 style better though, and folks were hatin on those too.
    as far as driving a goat in chicago for the winter, it is a NO BRAINER (that's my specialty sort of question). 4 snow tires are absolutely 400% required for chicago. do not skimp! two words for ya: BLIZ ZAK. not the Q rated WS50s, those are just too spongy for the goat.
    rip shifter, any downside to getting one of those installed ? vibration or anything ? maybe i could do it myself but i'd probably shred the interior trying to figure out how to unscrew the current shifter, extra parts left over, the whole 9 yards. i'll google it and check it on that other forum whose name contains the 3 letter 2004 GM goat engine designation!
    ps - i asked an actual Australian dude if "skippy" was an ok thing to say/call to an australian. perhaps many of you already know the origin of the term. the term's origin: they had a tv show down under like "flipper" here in USA except it was "skippy" and it was about a kangaroo instead of a dolphin.
  • The only downside of the rip shifter that I have experienced on my '05 is a slight bit of gear noise through the shift lever under hard acceleration. You will find some forums talking about the shifter hitting the transmission tunnel during cornering, but I suspect this is only on '04's.

    As far as installation goes, the instructions that come with the shifter are very good and easy to read. The only tool I can say I had to go purchase was the 6mm hex to remove the two existing screws on the factory shifter top plate. Total installation time was 3 hours including the run to the parts store for the tool. The worst part of the whole process was removing and re-installing the factory shift boot which has studs through the transmission tunnel. The nuts can only be accessed under the car, and they are difficult to get to. With the new shifter in place, the boot does not sit all the way down on the tunnel without some pressure on it, so I had my wife press down on the ring while I spun the nuts back on the studs so I wouldn't have to wrech them all the way on. I guess my advice would be that if you can find a speed shop that will do the install for $150 or so, I probably would not do another one myself.
  • b4zb4z Posts: 3,372
    With my KDW tires my GTO coners a litle bit better, turns in faster, doesn't ride that much worse (40 series vs. stock 45 so the sidewall height is lower).
    It also launches harder. For instance I able to raise the rpms and still not get wheelspin.
    Spins the tires less on a hard 1-2 upshift.
    Is noticabley better in the rain. Especially at speed.
    Will not spin the tires as easily, better braking and almost no hydroplaning at high speeds.
    They are also wearing better than the stock tires.
  • b4zb4z Posts: 3,372
    Leased my '04 GTO M6 11/30/04.
    Just had the 15K oil change done today with Mobil 1.
    I buy the 6pak at Costco and take it to the dealer.
    Usually get the oil changed for about $19 labor + 27.99 for the oil.

    So far I have had the clutch pedal bearing greased and all 4 rotors turned. All under warranty.
    This is the best car I have owned and the least amount of problems of the 10 new GM cars I have bought since 1983.
  • My first oil change tomorrow. I'm a little nervous that they're going to screw with it or screw it up (drip a little on the exhaust manifold). Anyway I'll cut to the chace...

    does anyone know how many '05 6spd Midnight Blue's were made?

    Just curious...

  • I appreciate all your comments and answers to my questions. So, I actually went to the dealership last night and took an '05 AT for my first test drive. This car is simply out of this world! It is so overpowered it is ridiculous and I love it! What's great about it is that you can drive it like any other car as the suspension is fairly soft and it just grunts nicely, keeping rpm low. When you hit the throttle it transforms into a personal Nascar racer. When test driving yesterday I was cruising a side street at 30mph and then floored it. I now realize it was irresponsible because the rear wheels started spinning and immediately put the car sideways. It scared the living hell out of me (and the sales guy) and I was surprised that the traction control did not prevent it. The sound of 8 cylinders firing is great. My body did not produce so much adrenaline in a long time. Given that winter in Chicago is fast approaching, I will wait and buy it in March as I don't trust myself with 400hp and rear wheel drive. :P
  • I remember you from the Axiom forum! Didn't you get a Mazda6 when you got rid of your black Axiom? We think alike though I still have my Trooper - the best SUV ever made ;-)

    I bought my 2004 GTO (350hp) on Christmas Eve 2004 and it so happened that I drove it next day from Atlanta to Chicago through pretty bad storms in TN and KY. I didn't have any issues, used the 2nd gear instead of 1st and just made sure my RPMs stayed pretty low at all times. When there was ice and snow, I tended to drive at 40MPH in the 6th gear with ~1000RPMs on the tach. Probably not good for the engine though... It was a fun trip with my wife and a toddler but I'm not sure I'd want to do it every day. I was in Chicago the other day and I'm glad we took our Trooper this time - with all this construction going on, most of your highways look like a war zone... There would have been some serious damage done to my GTO...
  • zingerzinger Posts: 61
    Took a GTO out yesterday for a long test drive in Chicago. They let me take it for the afternoon. 6 SP Torrid red. This is the second year in a row I have passed on this car because I dont want to give up my Celica GTS. This dealer is ready to kill me. Fun car just wish it didnt feel like a bus compared the Celica. Plus they really arent dealing on the car this year at all and they are practically falling over themselves to get my car which makes me think I should just keep it.
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    As the owner of a Celica GTS, what has attracted you to the GTO rather than something more in the same vein as your current car?

    I can understand the allure of all the torque/power of the GTO, but you already knew going in that it wouldn't have the same razor sharp responses as the Celica. This just seems like an odd transition to me. Have you looked at the RX-8?
  • zingerzinger Posts: 61
    Have not looked at the RX8 as I dont care for the style and wanted to get away from the high reving engines.

    I wanted something a little bigger with more of a range of torque. My first car was a 1975 Bonneville so I do like the big V8 and the Pontiac brand. I do like the style and interior of the GTO. I guess I am so used to flying around corners that I just dont have the patience the GTO requires. They are complete opposites - I wish I could have em both.

    I was hoping the 350Z would be a nice compromise but all of the mechanical troubles with the car are a concern.
This discussion has been closed.