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Pontiac GTO



  • rcc442rcc442 Posts: 56
    So, now we really don't know what the enhancements are. We have two GM-based websites with slightly different lists, and neither are 100% correct. I haven't seen the "illuminated radio controls on the steering wheel", and sputterguy didn't notice any faster seatbacks. Wonder if the extra power outlet is there...

    (Of course, my original post was intended to question whether there were any "fixes", not new "features".)
  • zingerzinger Posts: 61
    In my opinion the seats are definely faster and I believe are fast enough so as not to be an inconvenience. The extra power outlet and lighted controls are also included for 06.

    I just dont think I care for the dark tails on Torrid Red.
  • eliaselias Posts: 2,120
    some of you are seeing rough idle in hot temps? i don't remember anything like that from last summer. instead i notice the engine runs pretty rough when it's ice cold in winter and i'm trying to loaf along on side roads before i reach the highway. rougher than i remember my LT1 & LS1 Z28s.
    but isn't the cement-mixer-like idle pretty much a known & loved characteristic of these LT1/LS1/LS2 cars?
  • emd567emd567 Posts: 15
    Mine will be Cyclone Gray with 17" tires. Just gotta wait to see what the taxes are going to do. Should be in the dealership sometime around the 20th of Febuary to start the dealing !!!
    One thing I have noticed around my neck of the woods- I have only seen 5 GTO's on the road. I drive about 300 miles every day, so it's not like I am just running errands. 1 yellow(whew) 3 red, and one black.
  • rcc442rcc442 Posts: 56
    but isn't the cement-mixer-like idle pretty much a known & loved characteristic of these LT1/LS1/LS2 cars?

    I can't speak for the aluminum versions, but my current '96 Impala SS and '96 Caprice, both with LT1's, idle just as smooth as the day they were delivered... and, by the way, neither of have ever been tuned up! (Caprice has the most miles, at 82,000.) I also had a '97 Z with an LT1; same smooth idle. I would not be happy with a new car that does not idle smoothly... a throaty rumble is fine, but not an idle that makes me anxious it might conk out!
  • dclark2dclark2 Posts: 91
    My '06 was made in august. The seats are still slow, it does have the power outlet and steering wheel controls are lit. Stragely enough, I never use them; I just find it easier to use the controls on the hu.
    The new tail lights do look better, even on my red/red.You'd have to see it in person. The black part really compliments the lower black part on the rear bumper.
    My idle used to be a little rough, but that has gone away, it is as smooth as the lt1 in my Impala. I think it takes 500 miles for the pcm to dial everything in. I now have 1100 miles on it.
  • eliaselias Posts: 2,120
    four four two rrc, maybe that impala SS felt like it was idling smoother because it's whale-like size & weight dampen the idle better than the smaller fourth-gen f-body cars can dampen. i suppose the goats smaller girth works against its dampening ability, while its intermediate weight puts it inbetween f-body & b-body with regard to the mass parameter. how's that for getting all Newtonian on your orphaned-car-driving butts?

    also, did the impala SS LT1 have the same cam as the Z28? maybe so. but a vanilla 96 caprice sure didn't have an f-body LT1 cam , eh - another reason idle would feel smoother.

    i'm not sure how the aluminum/non-aluminum heads would affect idle. please inform me re aluminum/non-aluminum and also of the degree of cranial insertion apparent in my idle theories. thank you.
  • rcc442rcc442 Posts: 56
    Wow.. you have an '06... great! Thanks for the idle info; I think that's no longer an issue for me.

    Now I can ask you directly: why did you opt for an '06 over an '05, especially given the extra incentives (customer rebate of $2000 to $2500 and dealer incentive of $2500) on the '05's?
    I can live without the steering wheel-mounted radio controls; so I can't decide whether to buy now and get the rebate on a remaining '05, or wait until next fall and pick up an '06 (perhaps with a lower, say $1000) rebate.

    (Current rebates ($2500 on '05, $500 on '06) expire on Jan 31, which is close at hand. I wonder what may change on Feb 1... if anything.)
  • rcc442rcc442 Posts: 56
    did the impala SS LT1 have the same cam as the Z28?

    Sorry, but I'm not enough of a gearhead to even look that one up. :-) However, I'll bet it did, simply because I doubt GM built different LT1's for each model in a given year. The '97 Z28 LT1 was rated at 275hp, the '96 Impala and Caprice were rated at 265hp (I'm sure the 'vette LT1 those years was rated slightly higher than the Z28). But I doubt the cams were different... I could be wrong.

    a vanilla 96 caprice sure didn't have an f-body LT1 cam , eh

    The first-level '96 Caprice upgrade was to a 5.0L V8, I believe, and the second upgrade (mine) was to the 5.7L LT1, which, as far as I can tell, is identical to the LT1 that came as standard in the Impala SS model, right down to the exhaust system. Makes sense; recall GM tried to keep the added expense (to them) of the Impala SS as low as possible... the changes from a "police" Caprice were as minor cost-wise as possible (that's why the floor-mounted shifter didn't even come out until '96... once they saw that the '94 and '95 Impalas really did sell).

    Your theory about the extra weight of the b-bodies may have some merit...
  • dclark2dclark2 Posts: 91
    The Impala SS has a milder grind of cam than the f bodies. Acutally, the '94/95 had slightly more lift than the '96, but in '96, the head flowed slightly better, so the hp difference was negligible.
    I wanted a '06 because of the changes, plus minor improvements (like steering rack).
    More importantly, almost no one had the GTO that I wanted (red/red 06 w/18" wheels).
    I'd say to go with an '06... and keep the Impala SS (I drove the Impala today to work so that the goat wouldn't get dirty!).
  • b4zb4z Posts: 3,372
    Impalas also had iron heads.
    Fastest Bbody was actually a Caprice with the trailer towing package. Because it had a 3.23 rearend vs. the 3.08 in the SS.
    dclark2 is also right about the cam. It was slightly milder. LT1 hp ranged from 260 hp in the Impala SS to 300 hp in the Corvette.
    LT4 was 330 hp.

    Caprice started with a 4.3L V8 not a 5.0L in '96.

    IMpala SSs really weren't that fast. The Marauder is actually slightly quicker but had no low end torque, even with the 3.55 rearend.

    I used to run down Impala SSs with my 215hp '87 IROC w/ 3.45 gears and a 5 speed. 3400lb car vs. a 4200lb car with
    45 more hp.
  • prguy77prguy77 Posts: 14
    Hey guys,

    So let me get this straight. Is there a $2500 rebate IN ADDITION to the $2500 payout the dealers got for 05s? $5k in rebates is pretty darn good. Thanks!

  • dclark2dclark2 Posts: 91
    "IMpala SSs really weren't that fast. The Marauder is actually slightly quicker but had no low end torque, even with the 3.55 rearend"
    For the time (mid 90's) Impala was fast for the time. Compared to a Mustang GT of the same year, Impala was faster and had better braking distance. Most magazines got a 1/4 mile in the low to mid 15's, one (I forget who) got a '94 at 15 sec flat. Take off the horrendous fleetwood style exhaust and all that intake baffling and you have an easy 14 sec car. No normally aspirated car was so easy to gain 30 more hp at such a low price! I don't know if those 3.23 gears would make much of a difference- I have the 3.42 gears and it made SOME difference, but I think 3.72 is the wat to go (I think those were the gears on the fleetwood tow package).
    One more thing- the GTO has a great sounding exhaust! Some replace it with another for more sound, but no one ever gets over 5hp+ on the dyno.It is subdued in cruising, but floor it and lets out a nice loud roar. It even sounds a bit louder at wot than my Impala SS and that car has slp headers, export pipes and an ultraflo (glass pack style) exhaust with an H pipe.
  • rcc442rcc442 Posts: 56
    Wow... we've almost got our own '96 Impala SS forum here! Not many posts in the primary Impala forum relate to the '94-'96 Impala's... the overwhelming majority concern the 2000-2004 abomination that Chevrolet now calls an Impala.

    I really take exception to the recent SS badging of one of almost every model. To me, it's gotta have a higher-output V8, and preferably RWD, to be an SS. For a long time, Chevy held to that mantra, but just in the past few years, they began abusing the designation. I don't mind the big pick-ups with the SS454 designation, or the SSR, or even the new 2006 TrailBlazer SS (with, of course, an LS2)... but the FWD cars, especially those without V8's, are going too far...
  • b4zb4z Posts: 3,372
    Yeah but those FWD 5.3L powered Impala SSs will 0-60
    in 5.9-6.1 secs.
    If I spun too much off the line or slowshifted they might
    could take my '04 GTO.
    At least to 60mph. After that it would be all GTO.
  • eliaselias Posts: 2,120
    what's the lowest anyone here has gotten from the "miles until empty" fuel display? the lowest for me so far is 18 miles... aren't i daring!?
  • rcc442rcc442 Posts: 56
    Is there a $2500 rebate IN ADDITION to the $2500 payout the dealers got for 05s? $5k in rebates is pretty darn good

    Yes, it is... now the question is what will happen after today??? The $2500 customer rebate expires today (must take delivery by 1/31/2006).

    I seriously doubt the dealers will get an additional payout. So, the only question is whether the customer rebate will disappear (because there are too few left on dealers' lots), whether it will continue after today as-is, or whether it will go up another $500 tomorrow, to move the remaining '05's.

    I'm actually on the fence right now... trying to decide whether to go to the (only) dealer (in the area) that has the car I want. But, I'd kick myself if I find I could have received another $500 just by waiting until the weekend. This dealer advertised remaining '05's "from $26970". Fine print says it includes all rebates, but does not include "taxes, tag, applicable fees, or destination". See that??? He wants another $700 back (destination)! So, according to my calculations, after adding destination and dealer fee, he wants a profit of approx $1539, on a year-old left-over! (No wonder he sold only 1 2005 over this past weekend.)

    GM is doing its part to sell the remaining '05's (rebates and dealer payouts), but dealers remain greedy... even though 2006's continue to arrive.
  • b4zb4z Posts: 3,372
    Never heard of a dealer who seperates the destination charge from the MSRP.
    Seems kind of shady and maybe somebody you don't want to do business.
    If in fact there is a total of $5,000 in incentives then I would subtract it from the invoice and add 1-2%(at most,) and give them that offer.
    And don't let him add a dealer processing fee to that either.
    If he doesn't take it he is a fool.
  • I got caught out on the freeway daydreaming a few months ago, I took her to about a mile beyond 0, don't want to do that again.....Mark.
    BTW....Anybody else have trouble with the rear trunk release sticking? I have to pull up on my trunk while pushing the fob button, tried WD40, didn't do it.
  • for those interested, this monday's york times has a very interesting article in the sports section regarding 60s and 70 era super sports. bty, i really enjoyed my 86 monte super sport. o well
  • The rebates of $2500 on '05s and $500 on '06s have been extended until 3/31/06. There is also GMAC financing available on both in lieu of the rebates.

    I'm sure part of the reason for the extension was that January sales were a horrible 594 units (down 34% compared to last January). By my estimate there are at least 1500 new '04, '05, and '06 GTOs available. Holden shipped 700 cars in December, not sure about January.
  • eliaselias Posts: 2,120
    i had oil change at 4900 miles in 10/05, before oilchange interval warning happened. the mechanic told me he cleared the oilchange-thing with the 3-pedal-presses before starting the car, or whatever it is. now it's 2/06, car has 9200 miles and the oilchange warning popped up today. this seems strange to me - if it didn't say "service" oil after 4900 (many city & break-in miles, varying rpm), why is it doing so 4300 miles later at 9200 miles - mostly highway.miles? i'm used to doing 10k oilchanges on my Z28s, with Mobil 1 and was hoping to go to such an interval with the goat LS2. what do you know, folks? thanks!
  • mick1mick1 Posts: 84
    Don't be paranoid, obviously the pedal wasn't depressed fully during the reset. However with the oil change warning on you can now reset it after the oil change thereby turning off the warning( and know that it was done properly this time ) and wait another 9200 miles till the next oil change.BTW, are you using the new Mobil1 with 15,000 mile extended interval?
  • eliaselias Posts: 2,120
    thanks Mick1. earlier today by experimenting with the clear-oilchange-service-thing, i determined the same thing. i think the manual says to depress pedal twice in 1st 5 seconds. but i verified that does not clear the indicator. but when i depressed pedal 5 times in 5 seconds, that did work to clear the service indicator. i think this is consistent with what the esteemed hammen2 told us all a few hundred posts ago...
    i have some mobil1 5/30 in my garage but it is a few years old - probably not the new/15k stuff. thanks for the headsup re that too!
  • rcc442rcc442 Posts: 56
    Ok, so I went to the local dealer last night. This time I visited the Internet Sales dept, rather than the Retail Sales dept (normal walk-in) that I went to on the last Red Tag Event day, Jan 3. I called the contact listed for the dealership in, and then went in to see her.

    Unlike the Retail Sales dept, when you work with the Internet Sales dept, there is no negotiating. She offered to sell me any 2005 GTO she had left for $500 below dealer invoice. And, she showed me the invoice, without my even asking. The dealer invoice price listed was about $727 higher than I was expecting (from Edmunds). When I studied the invoice, I discovered why; there were two advertising fees added, of equal amounts.. one for national advertising, one for regional advertising. Each was roughly 1% of MSRP, thus accounting closely for the difference. The hold-back was also shown, and she claimed the $500 discount off dealer invoice was strictly because they are dipping into the hold-back to sell the remaining units. (If I wanted a 2006, my price would be $1000 more, or $500 above dealer invoice.) So, the bottom line was invoice - 500 - 2500 customer rebate (they do not add a dealer fee if you buy through the Internet Sales dept). Coincidentally, when I was bargaining with a slaesman in Retail Sales on Jan 3, we arrived at a price approximately $12 less than this Internet Sales price, after the $499 dealer fee was added, which he claimed couldn't be removed.

    Next, I asked about the so-called "buyout" or "payout" to the dealers of $2500, that has been rumored in this forum. She said there has not been one on the 2005 GTO's (yet). She said dealers normally receive this payment in January for remaining previous year's models. And, she showed me a listing she had of the buy-out amounts for all 2005 models... it showed $0 for the GTO, with a footnote that a customer rebate is still available. Apparently, on Dec 31, GM ends the customer rebates, and instead gives the same amount of cash to the dealers, and thus wash their hands of last year's models. However, since the GTO schedule is delayed, compared to the other models due to production dates and shipping, these buy-outs and rebate cancellations are also delayed. Since she had documentation, I tend to believe her.

    Did I buy??? No, not last night... for two reasons: First, the bottom line was about $2000 more than I was planning on, since I thought the rebates and buy-outs were two separate things that could be combined. (Also, the deal today is no better than it was on Jan 3.) Second, this particular car has 18" wheels, which I don't want (too expensive to replace the tires... the OE 18" tires cost roughly twice what the OE 17"'s cost, and have treadwear ratings less than half the 17" treadwear rating).

    So, this weekend will be spent deciding how much I want an '05 GTO, and whether I want to pay more than I was expecting....
  • eliaselias Posts: 2,120
    rcc442, you threw a GTO-block on yourself! i hear you wanting a $2500 rebate. your deal now sounds better than it was for me with my 2005 last june, mine was 30268 before subtracting $3k for GM card, during that 'GMS price for everyone' deal. M6 with 17s.
    dude in your shoes where it seems you aren't getting much less than invoice on a 2005 , i would strongly consider this:
    - order a 2006 for invoice price - i think it's not too late. no hood scoops! :) and with the 18s!
    i wish i had the 18s for summer, then i could use the 17s for blizza
    ks and have better summer handling. there will be other options in 18" tires soon enough, with better price, as wheel sizes keep increasing ridiculously year to year.
    if you are thinking $, maybe think about this: it costs ballpark 50 cents per mile to operate this car, maybe it's 60cents... think total cost of ownership as well as up front price. there's an awesome section on edmunds about TCO for most cars. btw, in case you didn't know, the "invoice" price is not what the dealer pays the factory for the car, even before all the rebates/holdbacks/brokebacks/whateverbacks. the actual price the dealer pays is *private info* between the dealer & the manufacturer - a private contract. the actual price paid by the dealer to manufacturer is always *less* than the invoice price, often considerably less for high-volume dealerships. only in oddball low-volume situations would dealer pay actual invoice price to the manufacturer. could gto be such an oddball case ? we'll never know unless we get hired into contract/beancounting dept at a dealership or GM - or Holden.
  • white6white6 Posts: 588
    Regardless of their "excuses," I can't see buying a left-over, already-model-year-old car for only $1,000 less than a new, current model year car. There should be at least $3,000 to $5,000 difference to be worth driving away in a car that is, technically, already a year old. And their "advertising fee" varies considerably from dealer to dealer. You might check with a small-town dealer in your region. I have driven 50 miles to save $500-$1,000 more than once.
  • eliaselias Posts: 2,120
    a while back i posted about clicky-at-bottom clutch pedal. apparently that was caused by the rug getting stuck under the pedal somehow.

    the floor mats have holes in them. in the rear at least there are holes in the floor too. seems like there ought to be some little posts which fasten the floor mats into place. do other folks' goats have such posts? is mine the only one in which the front & rear floor-mats slide around too much?
  • elkiiielkiii Posts: 50
    Yes. They also seem to break easily. At least I've been through two so far.
    They are a twist-lok type post with a slot in the top. The slot is not wide enough to take a coin or such to secure it so a screwdriver is required. Since I didn't have one handy it could be that I didn't get it secure enough. More likely its because the part is pretty fragile plastic. Anybody out there know if there is one made of steel or at least aluminum?
  • rcc442rcc442 Posts: 56
    There should be at least $3,000 to $5,000 difference to be worth driving away in a car that is, technically, already a year old

    Well, actually there is a $3000 difference to the consumer... The price from the dealer is $1000 less for the 2005, plus the rebate on the 2005 is $2000 more than on the 2006, giving a total difference of $3000. As the number of 2005's on the lots here continue to decline (you basically don't have a good choice of colors and options now), that keeps the dealers from going lower because the $2000 rebate difference (and the $1000 price difference), along with no significant change to the 2006 model year, keeps the price-conscious buyer focused on the 2005. (The thought is, why buy a 2006 for $3000 more, when, after 7 years or so, the difference in what you wil be able to sell the 2005 and 2006 for will be less than the $3000 difference you get now.)

    Remember, these dealers really don't mind holding on to the cars until they get their price... Other postings to this forum indicate there are still 2004's on some dealers' lots! (Not around here, though.) We all know that if the price dropped enough, the cars would be sold.
This discussion has been closed.