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Pontiac GTO



  • hammen2hammen2 Posts: 1,313
    Power, comfort, handling, interior, exhaust sound, stealth, element of suprise :-)

    stock speakers are junk. Trunk is smallish (but big enough for me, so far). No auto-dimming mirror w/temp. Sssslllllloooooowwwww seat motor (back seat access).

    Most of the people griping about the GTO are either Mustang owners :cry: , or classic Pontiac guys who can't get over that the car doesn't look like their '66/'69/'71 et. al. :mad: . Virtually all of them have never test-driven the car - something you should do, and then decide. Owners really seem to love their cars. I was hooked from the first test-drive...
  • lordgearlordgear Posts: 1
    I work for the railroad and when I talked to the salesman, he was a little to happy to gove me the suplier discount, which is close to $1600.00 off the sticker. It made me think I could do better. ;)
  • oldboboldbob Posts: 41
    I paid $1500 below sticker with good financing in Feb. With current financing you should get $2500 below sticker. My dealer on LI NY started with 11 2005s and now has 4 left. They have sold some, anyway.
  • hammen2hammen2 Posts: 1,313
    I wouldn't start with sticker, I'd start with invoice. You should be able to get the invoice pricing from here on Edmunds. Start at invoice plus some amount ($200-$500), then factor in current incentives (also available on Edmunds, or on GMBuyPower). If you know for sure you're looking for a specific color and/or tranny combo, use GMBuyPower to search for nearby dealerships that have the car you want. Just be aware that BuyPower lists a car on a dealer's lot when it ships, so the car may not be there yet.

    Today and tomorrow is a REALLY good time to car-shop, since it's the end of the month. They will do anything and everything to get you sold this month...

    I think it's pretty obvious at this point that there's no huge stockpile of '05's - kind of the opposite (they are hard to find here in the Milwaukee area). I really don't think we'll see the fire-sales like we saw on the '04's. And, this is why I don't think you'll do much better than $500 over invoice, before incentives...

  • Where are all the '05s? Back on 4/1 there were about 1800 here in the US. If they are making 12000, and they've sold about 2000, less the 1800 in inventory, means about 8000 to be made by the last day of production on 6/10. That's only 6 weeks from now.

    Are they controlling inventory to help support price? Are they making fewer than 12K? Production problems? Shipping problems?

    Robert, any ideas?
  • hammen2hammen2 Posts: 1,313
    I have wondered the same thing - if they are just slow building the cars, or if they're staging them in Benecia. I think it's the former - haven't heard too many reports of boats coming in. Somewhere there's a Benecia webcam that shows the receiving port - someone posted screen caps of GTO's getting offloaded :-)

    I'm too lazy to look it up - haven't they sold somewhere closer to 2500 '05's through the end of March (from intial deliveries in mid-January, that's 2 1/2 months)?

    If you follow the "other site" you will see that LFP posted that production will continue into July. Order cutoff was extended to yesterday (4/28) - from the original 3/16 date. LFP also claims that dealers are trying to order more than they can produce. I am really suspecting either production issues, or perhaps a bias to building fewer GTO's (and thus more Monaros and export Chevy Lumina SS coupes) early in the production season, with more GTO's coming online now (when 1/2 of the U.S. leaves winter's grasp - okay, except Michigan and Ohio :-).

    Don't underestimate the potential popularity of the 18" wheel option for $495. Due to supplier constraints, they couldn't build GTOs with the factory 18's until March (but they could Monaros?). This might have skewed the production mix as well.

    Just my guess,

  • bigdaddycoatsbigdaddycoats Posts: 1,058
    I wonder if 12,000 was the amount GM plans to sell in calender year 2005, not the number of 2005 model GTOs they hope to sell. That would make sense.
  • I love almost everything about my new GTO except the slooooowww seat motor. It would have been so much better if it was just a manual operation. My daughter and wife constantly give me grief about it even though they like the car otherwise. The rear seat area is very spacious and comfortable but it's truly difficult to get back there. My 02 Formula has hardly any room in the back seat but at least it's easy to get back there.

    Otherwise, this is easily the best GM vehicle I have EVER owned!! :D
  • ClairesClaires Chicago areaPosts: 1,221
    You might want to drop into the Pontiac GTO: Prices Paid and Buying Experience forum to get more advice about this.



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  • sputterguysputterguy Posts: 383
    I don't think anyone has ever mentioned the door locks. Clunk when they lock, clunk when they unlock. Unsightly too. All in all though, the pluses outweigh the minuses.
  • hammen2hammen2 Posts: 1,313
    All in all though, the pluses outweigh the minuses.

    By far! Complaining about these issues on the GTO is like complaining about a zit on Halle Berry's face...
  • jpstax1jpstax1 Posts: 197
    Thanks for the link! Did you know that Edmunds finally wrote a very good article on the history of the GTO. Here's the link:

    I talked with a couple of guys who brought their old "goats" to a recent car show. They really like the '05 with its split dual exhaust and functional hood scoops. One guy said he test drove a blue one last week and was very impressed with the LS2 engine. He said he was considering selling his blue '66 and using the money for a down payment.
  • xkssxkss Posts: 722
    check here

    New GTO.R

    I wish they would use the body and wheel colors from the GTO race car shown at last year's SEMA show.

    check here

    GTO race car
  • sputterguysputterguy Posts: 383
    Interesting analogy.
  • sputterguysputterguy Posts: 383
    My second test drive was with a Quicksilver 6-speed. Just like my '04 but with all that extra stuff. Driving around the streets of San Francisco in a 400hp GTO is, well, hellafun. It seemed though that the throttle response was a slow. The first car I drove was so precise and smooth it made me want to trade in my '04 on it. e I wouldn't spend the extra money on for this one.

    Has anyone experienced any problems with the electronic throttle? Hey gunit! You've been a little quiet lately. Have you had any problems?
  • Looking for some pros/cons on a near future purchase. I have found a few 2004 autos in colors that I like. Obviously the price will probably be around 25K vs. 32K or so for a 2005. My question to you all is this: is it worth it to spring for the 2005? I am notorious for only keeping a car for 2 or 3 years max before I trade. For those of you who have "real world experience" with the model year differences, what do you all think is the best route? Thanks for all of your help in advance.
  • hammen2hammen2 Posts: 1,313
    If you traditionally have been selling or trading your vehicles every 2-3 years, buying the '04 is a no-brainer. It costs less, therefore it will depreciate less than a brand-spanking-new '05. If you test-drive both and are happy with the '04, then go for the less-expensive car.

    As you probably know, the major differences include the 400hp LS2 versus the 350 hp LS1; the hood scoops; bigger, better brakes; drive-by-wire (no throttle cable); upgraded automatic tranny; dead pedal; revised rear fascia with separated dual exhausts; Midnight Blue Metallic and Cyclone Grey Metallic colors, replacing Cosmos Purple Metallic and Barbados Blue, respectively.

    The 2004's were being built into October over in Australia - last 52 came on a boat which left Australia in early November (along with the first 700 or so '05's). Check the last 6 digits of the VIN number - I've seen GTO's start at 175xxx and end up around 316xxx (my July build is 301xxx). If you have a later (>250xxx VIN), most of the Technical Service Bulletins out on the '04's don't apply to you.

    Hope this helps,

  • Thanks for the info. I know the engine has been upgraded by 50HP... In real world apps, is this a make it or break it deal? What about the brakes and drive by wire system? Cosmetically, I am sure there are things that can be done to improve the looks of the '04's. My goal is to "play around" with the car... maybe some bolt on upgrades and that will be it. As far as color goes, I have found a Quicksilver and a Phantom Black (both autos which is what I want). The Cyclone grey is nice, but not a must have color for me. I guess my main issue is will I miss that 50 HP if I go with the '04? I am not looking to race, but want to make sure I know all of the pros and cons before I buy. :P
  • hammen2hammen2 Posts: 1,313
    I haven't driven an '05, so I can't comment on the differences. 350 hp is enough for me on a daily basis - I don't race or take my car to the track. Were I to do so, I know of several upgrades (ranging from a K&N intake to long-tube headers to catback exhaust systems to heads/cam to supercharger). Since the '04 uses the LS1 engine used in hundreds of thousands of Corvettes and F-bodies, there are tons of aftermarket upgrade parts. Assuming 25k + TTL for the '04, versus 31-32k + TTL for the '05, I'm sure you could put enough performance into the '04 to make it surpass the '05, and still have money left over, for example. I'm sure LS2 mods aplenty will be out "soon" but right now the cupboard is pretty bare compared to the LS1 mods.

    Regarding brakes, one noticeable improvement for the '04's is to replace the front brake pads with those from a C5 Corvette (they fit). I personally haven't noticed any braking issues in normal day-to-day driving, but those who run the 1/4 or especially autocross comment on fading and stopping distances. I will probably put the '05 pads on whenever I have to change mine.

    Since you're looking at an auto, the upgraded and recalibrated tranny on the '05 may be a noticeable improvement. However, there are trans kits, stall converters, and custom tuning that can improve the '04.

    The drive-by-wire system replaces the actual cable going from the gas pedal to the throttle. This is good in that it helps eliminate the "stuck accelerator pedal" issue (almost drove my Aurora through the garage into the house one day when the cable stuck :-) but it can reduce throttle response/performance by introducing lag. I don't know if it's a positive or a negative.

    Also, be aware that there are still a few "2004 Sport Appearance Package" kits around. This consists of the '05 hood, the autocross grilles (inset, kind of like Grand Am/old GTO grilles) and the "autocross spoiler" (it's more square and looks like an old Judge spoiler). These kits were designed for dealers who had '04's on the lots when the '05's showed up - only dealers never read their bulletins, so dealers were blowing out these kits for $550-$600. I bought one (sold off the grilles and spoiler) and plan to put the '05 hood on when I can find the $$$ to get it painted. If you really like the '05 hood, maybe you can work the SAP into your deal, if they can still find one from their ADI?

    My advice, check the VINs on the cars, make sure the tire pressure is reduced to 35 psi, and the spring clips (shipping materials) removed from either the '04's or '05's, then take them for a spin. If you like the '04, considering the cost savings, I'd go for it...

  • b4zb4z Posts: 3,372
    Ordered the SAP hood from a Pontiac dealer in Doylestown, PA.
    They are parting out the SAP packages and i got the hood for $449 + 140 shipping.
    My local dealer painted it. Had to do some bodywork on the hood + their first paint application was bad.
    I did not have them blend the fenders, and it looks very good.
    I have $1K in the hood so far.

    For those of you who don't know the SAP hood is the same as the '05.

    The scoop grilles were missing, but they are being shipped.
    The car looks incredible and really turns heads.
    The GTO :) should have come with this hood from the start.
    It is great driving down the street and seeing those two scoop bulges.

    Next is caps for my spoiler delete and probably baer brakes.
  • hammen2hammen2 Posts: 1,313
    ...have you tried the C5 brake pads on the front? I understand they are a direct fit, and help improve brake feel/performance. I've no complaints about my car's brake performance, though, with only 1064 miles on it, maybe that's early. I understand, from those who autocross or take the GTO to the track, that high-speed stops and fade become issues... don't get to drive like that too much :-)

    I bought my SAP kit for $700 locally (cheaper than/less riskier than shipping), versus $550 + shipping from the other guys, and sold off the autocross grilles and spoiler. Have a friend of a friend who owns an auto shop and is an Aussie, so, as soon as I come up with $350, he'll paint my hood (don't want them to blend the fenders - I understand the Cosmos Purple is a bear to paint). Maybe in time for the GTO Nationals in St. Louis in late June...

  • danmandanman Posts: 16
    Actually the Corvette is GM's best money maker other then it's truck and SUV lines. Back in 1997 when the C5 came out, GM was making $4,500 or 14% profit on each one sold, sold around 20,000+ then.
  • midwesttradermidwesttrader Posts: 291
    April = 1111
    YTD = 4372

    That's 264 less cars than last month. '04s still available, '05s seem to be in short supply in certain areas.

    Overall GM truck sales down 17% and car sales up 7.5%. Pontiac beat Buick easily for the month.
  • ClairesClaires Chicago areaPosts: 1,221
    This discussion deals with the features and attributes of the Pontiac GTO. If you want to discuss GM and its sales, please take it to the News & Views forum.



    Need help getting around? - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • hammen2hammen2 Posts: 1,313
    Hi Claire,

    Not being a smart-you-know-what, but midwesttrader posted the GTO's sales figures for last month and year-to-date (and then a last sentence about GM in general). Are both of these issues considered off-topic here? I can see why the latter would be, but I think there's general interest by GTO owners and potential owners about how well the car is selling. Doesn't seem to fit the "Prices Paid and Buying Experiences" thread, either.

    Just my 2 cents,

  • cccompsoncccompson Posts: 2,388
    I, for one, am following the GTO market closely and am most grateful to see GTO sales figures posted as they affect market value and the price I might expect to pay. It is rather hard to see how they are not properly in a discussion about the vehicle. If they are elsewhere on edmunds, I would never see them.

    Also, starting a separate topic is not a good option as it likely would lock every month!
  • SylviaSylvia Posts: 1,636
    The point is not to go off and derail the discussion into a who-is-selling-more-than-who discussion. We have plenty of those in News & Views. Typically, that tends to be what happens when sales numbers in general get posted.

  • xkssxkss Posts: 722
    Since the new GTO is really an Australian Holden coupe, which is no bad thing, I thought I would post this video of a Holden HSV (Holden's performance division) sedan. I think it is from 2003, because HSVs were upgraded to the LS2 last fall and this one has an LS1.

    Holden HSV sedan going sideways

    Here is Holden's website
  • hammen2hammen2 Posts: 1,313
    Just to clarify, HSV (Holden Special Vehicles) is not Holden. Holden may have some ownership interest in HSV, but it's run as a completely seperate company. Partially-completed Holdens are built and shipped to HSV, where they are tweaked - kind of like Callaway or Lingenfelter, which take Corvettes and produced heavily-modified versions of them.

    Holden's web site:

    HSV's web site:

    HSV plant tour - go to HSV's web site, click on Multimedia, click on VR Tours (can't directly link due to frames, gak).


  • xkssxkss Posts: 722
    Isn't HSV like BMW M and AMG?
This discussion has been closed.