Toyota Land Cruiser

blockislandguy

As an analytical sort, I need some help. I'm looking for a newer SUV and want to pick one up one or two years old for all the right reasons (lower sales tax, lower excise tax, lower depreciation, etc.) With that in mind I compared a bunch of SUVs around my target price of 35 to 40K. For a couple (Nav, Denali) of the vehicles I was interested in I could get an '03 for this money and for others (X5, and TLC) I would have to get an '02. No problem I thought. I would gladly "give up" a model year to get a TLC especially because now as a TWO year old vehicle I would have even lower costs per mile.

I compared Edmunds TCO data for a 2002 TLC. With a cost basis of 41K, they determine that it will cost 67 cents per mile for the next five years. An '02 X5 with a basis of 34K will cost 66 cents per mile. An '03 Nav with a basis of 37K will cost 64 cents per mile and an '03 Denali will cost 37K to get into and 65 cents a mile for five years.

But wait, there's more: an '02 Sequoia will cost 36K to get into and run 63 cents per mile.

I'm surprised that the '02 TLC with its minimal depreciation and with the first two year's depreication already taken, would cost so much per mile.

hank14

I have about 7,000 miles on my 285/75/16 Revo's (99 LC), and after the first rotation at 5,000 miles, developed a shake or wobble in the front end also. It too shows up at around 60-65 mph. I had them re-balanced once , and the problem is still there. I thought I wight have a bent rim or something. No apparent problems with the alignment.

ruking1

If you are so inclined, a pesky problem such as yours is one of the hidden strengths of the Hunter 9700. Since it similates load on a tire, it can detect the variations under load that a normal balance machine may not detect without load. Given that the alignment is in specifications for that tire and wheel combination it might be a defective tire or a rotor is out of balance.

tlcman

Those .$$ per mile dont seem accurate. First of all it is not the only factor in the cost of a vehicle, yes it plays a very large role in the wear and tear and thus the price. But there are other options, features, and reliability at hand. From my experiences with land cruiser and BMW's I would say that my land cruiser hold its value as well as my BMW's have, for example I had a 535 i in 1988 for about 40'grand when i went to sell it 12 years later with a little over 100,000 miles i got about 7,000 dealer trade in. If i were to sell my 94' LC which i got for i think around 45,000 or 50,000 i could get just about the same dealer trade in, 7,525 or private party around 11,000 As long as any quality higher end car (like the land cruiser) is taken care of (like regular service oil change ect) and if it is not in any major or many minor fender benders then it will hold its value. Also the car has to be clean, and work properly with all components. From experience, Land Cruisers stay in style longer that chevys or fords or many American cars, they have solid lines that you can see incorporated in the new 100 series that you can see from the FJ60's (1960 models) These are also very reliable, in my opinion more reliable that many American cars. And I know for a fact that Navs have very poor crash test ratings, if that makes any diff. Sorry if this offends anyone but Im not to keen on American cars. And keep in mind that were talking pennys on the dollar, if your going to lay down 41K for a 02 LC then 67cents to a mile if thats right should not be a big concern I mean think about it the diff between that one and the lesser one is what 3 cents? 3 cents.....

ruking1

I sold a 1987 TLC gotten for 16k new (latter part of 1986 and sold it 14 years later for 9k. During that time I put in app 250k miles and had 2.2k in unscheduled repairs (dealer prices) So depreciation was 3.125% per year or 500 per year or 41.67 per month.

I didn't do as well with a 7 year old 1997 TLC as depreciation was 4.6332% per year

jocigar

I have a 91 landcrusier that has cloth seats. The drivers side has developed a wear/hole.

Since the truck is still like new with 146k, I would like to fix it, but the dealer wants $330 for the lower half only. It seams like a crazie price for a cover that is cloth with vinyl sides.

Any links or suggestion are appreciated.

grantchstr

It might be worth trying to get seat from a junk yard LC (from a crashed newer LC model maybe) or a couple of leather seats from a similar source. The cloths on my '91 are OK but I have been considering an upgrade to leather anyway.
Another thought - forget a dealer and just go to a regular seat upholster, it HAS to be cheaper than $330 for just a seat bottom.
Or, check out this website:
http://www.rufftuff.com/toyota_landcruiser.asp

Or: http://www.greatcovers.net/shop/categories.asp?category_id=4271&a- mp;a- mp;a- mp;a- mp;make=4019&model=4717

Or, get Ricaro seats which fit the Fj80 according to an Australian owner "A used Recaro is better than a new aftermarket
seat- better built, quality materials make the difference":

http://www.2002parts.com/html/recaro_front_seats.html

steelcruiser

Performance Products has some replacement covers too.

jocigar

Thanks for the replies.

I would like to keep it original if possible. Are there any discount OEM suppliers on the web?

I also need center hub covers and the plastic side bumbers.

On a side note, my oxigen sensor came off the exhaust pipe along with the mounting base... rusted off I guess. Anyway, they want 1,300 each for the two exhaust pipes that come off the manifolds and end with cad. converter... ouch! I need to find a welder or some other solution.

Not complaining about reliabilty since I have put under 1,000 in parts for 10 years.

grantchstr

Having clocked around 110,000 on my Fj80 I am some what anxious about such a large expenditure for an exhaust/cat converter assembly - I wonder how many miles my LC can clock before this replacement problem rears its ugly head. I shall be interested in all responses to jocigars question. My feeling is that an indy can come up with a cheaper alternative of some sort.

mobiweld

I had the same problem on my '91. I took it to a good upholstery shop and although the OEM fabric can only be sourced from Toyota, they were able to match it damn close at a fraction of what Toyota will charge. You had to really scrutinize the pattern to differentiate it from stock.

bryan28

Thanks for the info. Do any of the large shops use the Hunter? Please pass on some names.

I just returned from the So. cal. mountains and the new tires (revo's) did great in the fresh 8" that fell last night. Went out first thing in the morning before it was plowed and I went all over without a problem, what a blast.
Bryan

ruking1

http://209.176.154.132/pub/search/findgsp9700.cfm

Since I don't know your zip code here is a link.

hank14

Bryan-

What size Revo's did you put on your LC? Except for the vibration problem, which also goes away above 75 mph, they have done really well. They look awesome also.

For OEM parts, I use Toyotaparts.com. They seem to have good prices and reasonable turn-around.

bryan28

285/75/16, they look great and so far work great (only about 400 miles). Spent the weekend up in the mountains putting them to the test. As far as the vibration goes it's very slight and I'm sure it's a balancing problem. Bryan

bryan28

Thanks for the Hunter info. It sounds like the way to go. Bryan

mallory45

The local dealer here did not sell one of his 2003 model LC's. Comes with standard features, no options. What do you think would be a good price for this car? Thanks in advance.

edsel4u

I bought a new 2000LC in November 2000 for dealer invoice. The only options were the third seat and rear air; no roof rack or running boards. The dealer also threw in a Toyota trailer hitch installed no charge. It had been on their lot for 6 months.

Good luck!

bryan28

I thought I would try to get the front end of my 99LC (66k miles) to raise up a bit so I Tightened the torsion bars and found after some back and forth that the drivers side is about 1/2" lower than the passenger side. Even if I tighten the drivers side additional turns the 1/2" difference stayed the same, the entire front end would go up a bit as a unit. Could the 1/2" be due to the gas tank location or is there something else going on? I drove all over town last night while on a hot date (with wife) and the truck felt real good, the front end and steering felt newish again.

tlcman

Suspention and componets, check bushings and casters, 1/2 inch isnt all that much and should not change the way the car handles all that much. The gass tank if i remember right is placed in the center and distributes weight evenly, so that should not be a problem, ro you have drawer sytems, in the rear? Do you run oversized tyres on your TLC, and if you do do you cary the spare in the rear or the stock holder theres many components to check. Look at all of you front and rear suspention components make sure everything is in working condition. Hope this helps
O and any one with some steering know how on a 94 TLC, I have recently noticed alot of play in my steering wheel, more than is recomened how can I fix this?! I know that theres a simple way but I cant remember.

steelcruiser

Bryan. Did you measure before adjusting? Where did you measure--i.e. floor to wheel well, or top of wheel to fender well? Is your floor level? Which way did you "turn" the adjust ing nut (both sides are clockwise to raise, counter clock wise to lower). Do you have after market springs in the rear and if so are they installed on the right sides?

bryan28

Steelcruiser, I measured a couple different ways, I found the most accurate way was to use a plumb bob concept from different locations on the frame, the difference is less when measuring from the frame. The rear springs are stock. I'm on my way out to the garage now to play a little more...
Bryan

steelcruiser

bryan-was the front too low to suit you after installing the 285 tires? FWIW, my front to rear height differential is 1.5" I've tried to find out THE right differential after installing a lift. Seems like it's almost a matter of personal preference. I've opted not to twist my bars up too much as they're stock. OME is supposed to have bigger bars available and I plan on installing them soon.

bryan28

The front end has always looked a bit too low and then after I installed the 285's it looked a bit tight inside the wheel well. I ended up getting about an inch more height and it looks great and rides great. The truck still sits lower in front like stock but just less differential. I have a 48" level and was able to find several frame to frame measuring spots and it's nearly dead level side to side with a 1/2 tank of gas. What's the problem with cranking up the OEM bars a bit (famous last words), the extra height will be useful offroad? The only thing I can think of is perhaps the camber may be off a fraction one way or the other.
Bryan

steelcruiser

Bryan. I think there isn't much of a "problem" with cranking the stock bars if you don't have a lot of weight hanging on the front (ARB bumper and a winch). I know some engineering types can explain the permutations of what happens as the bars are cranked up...CV joint angle is altered tho.

abk34

I just purchased a 2004 LC and was suprised to find the factory dvd player installed in the right rear quarter panel behind a panel. The only way I have ever seen the dvd installed was in the console or glove box. This is very user unfriendly. Especially on a long trip where you would have to stop, remove luggage, install a different dvd, then reload. Toyota says there is nothing that they can do to relocate the player. My local car audio retailer has looked at the setup and is afraid to try to move it. Anyway, could have bought the identical LC elsewhere without the rear seat entertainment system for $2,500 less and installed a much nicer, more convenient system. Has anyone else noticed this or had any success relocating the dvd?

halcyondays

Last month, our 2000 LC experienced an accelerator position sensor failure. It is exactly one year out of warranty but had then gone only 33702 miles and has never been stressed. There has not been any severe weather in Seattle this winter to cause problems. The lowest temperatures were in the teens during Jan. We learned that one Seattle area dealer had sold four sensors, including ours, in just the first eleven days of February. That seems excessive. We submitted a claim to Toyota with an explanation but, as expected, they denied any responsibility.
A search of this thread yields but a few instances of problems with these sensors. Is that really the case? We wonder how that can be since one dealer is selling so many.
Does anyone have any comments? And does anyone have any suggestions as to how to hold Toyota's feet to the fire? Thanks.

mobiweld

A good mechanic or electrical engineer can test the throttle position sensor for functionality. I may even have an extra one from when I was troubleshooting a similar problem.

scott@mobi-arc.com

grantchstr

I have an Fj80 and I want to rejig it so that the Headlights go on and off with the ignition. I am sick and tired of people leaving the lights on and running down the battery - which also sets off the alarm system when jump-stated thereafter.

Will this be an easy project?

tlcman

Is this a FJ 80 were talking about? (FJ 80's are 91- 92.5 ) or is it an FZJ80 (92.5 - the redesign). With my early model FZJ-80 the lights stay on until the key is turned off and the drivers door is opened. I know what you are talking about but it came as standard on 94 and up this could be an electrical problem. I have seen many FJ and FZJ 80s with many electrical problems most of them not major like this but they deffinitly give the car a personality.

grantchstr

Yes, as stated its a Fj80. I am aware that later models were improved - including the headlight fix. So I wonder how easy it will be to copy it for an older model. It seems to me that it shouldnt be too hard.

fj100

I had the Throttle position sensor replaced on my 1999 LC about 18 months ago. This really should be a recall item because it is extremely dangerous. Mine failed in traffic, the car idled however when you pushed the gas pedal nothing happened. I was lucky to get the vehicle to a side road, I was on a down hill slope so the vehicle slowly crept to a side road.

Toyota has really missed the boat on this item. I guess someone will have to be really hurt or killed because of the TPS issue before Toyota will do something.

fj100

scifi

You guys are scaring me as I'm about to embark on a cross-country trip with my 98 LC. Whats the cost on the TPS?

fj100

The throttle position sensor was $250 installed and they had the part in stock (east coast, NC). I have heard horror stories of people being ripped off to the tune of $700 on this part on the west coast. The OBD (on board diagnostics) told the dealer exactly the piece that was malfunctioning.

About a month ago I had another throttle problem, different part, it was $280 installed. This problem occurred on start up, the truck did not want to start, then would start, the revs would go up real quick and then it would cut off so I started it and floored it, it kept running, the check engine light came on and I took it straight to the dealership.

I love my LC and would not drive anything else however I am having alot more unexpected repairs on the 100 series than I ever had on the 80 series.

You will be fine on the cross country trip. I would leave tomorrow in mine and drive anywhere in the USA.

fj100

oldman

Am I correct that as this sensor fails, it leads initially to erratic idle speeds? In other words, is there a gradual degrading of idle stability until finally the engine either stalls or won't respond to throttle?? Or do these sensors simply fail completely, suddenly, without notice? My 99 LC verges on a stall when cold started above 58 degrees ambient, and idles with jiggling until fully warmed up. Anybody else have this problem?

fj100

Failure # 1 - There is no notice at all. You can be driving, pull up to the next stop light and push the gas pedal and nothing happens, the vehicle just idles. This is the weirdest feeling in a vehicle, running but will not move.

Failure # 2 - This happened on start up and the check engine light came on.

fj100

hank14

The same thing fj100 describes in scenario #1 has happened to me twice. Once was when I drained and flushed the radiator and did not add enough coolant. When the engine warmed up, it continued to run, but would not accelerate.

The second time was when I nearly ran out of gas. I suppose I was nearly running on vapors. Both times I assumed it was a computer function to protect the engine. Both of these scenarios, were obviously preventable by me.

Where is the throttle position sensor, and how can I tell if mine's been replaced? I could not find it listed in the index of my manuals either.

Oldman- I haven't noticed that problem with mine. I only get some bearing noise when the engine is first started and cold.

tlcfor4

I've had the opportunity to experience the TPS failure 3 or 4 times on my 98 TLC. The results are consistent with the earlier posts. When the ECU experiences a loss of the TPS signal, the engine immediately goes to a smooth idle and the Engine Trouble light comes on. The Engine will not respond to depressing the throttle.

All failures occurred during the winter months under wet slushy snow conditions.

In all cases, shutting down and restarting the engine immediately restored normal operation.

Here's my understanding. The ECU uses the TPS signal to monitor for proper operation of the Engine (e.g. If the throttle is depressed this far, the Engine RPM for this gear should be this much, etc). If the as found conditions are not within a specific range, the Engine Trouble light comes on to prompt the operator of the abnormal condition (potential engine problems).

When the TPS signal is lost (temporary interruption) during operation, the software of the ECU is programmed to take the throttle to idle position (what it thinks is a safe condition). When the loss is temporary, shutting down and restarting the engine resets the ECU and restores normal operation.

Here's my thoughts. I don't like the idea that the engine defaults to an idle condition, but I'm not sure what would be better.

I believe the moisture intrusion problems of the TPS could and should be addressed. The sensor needs to be moved or better designed for the environment that it operates in.

I currently accept the failure because I don't want to spend the $300 it costs to replace the sensor. Frankly, I suspect the replacement sensors are prone to the same failure mechanism.

Do I fear taking trips with the vehicle? Absolutely not.

My 98 has 115,000 miles and runs virtually the same as the day I purchased it 5 years ago. I have no intentions to get rid of it now or anytime in the near future. It is still one of the finest products available.

bryan28

I feel the need to give my $.02, I would get the TPS replaced or checked if it was showing some of the symptoms, you don't want to get stranded in an unsafe location (or your wife/kids).

My 99 has none of the symptoms, so far but good to understand what may be coming my way.
Bryan

ironside7

As a clarification, for those that have had TPS failures, is it possible to be going down the highway at 70mph and all of a sudden have the engine drop to idle speed? Or, does the TPS failure only become apparent once you have stopped and try to go again?

tlcfor4

2 of my failures occurred as I was accelerating through 50 mph. The engine went to the idle speed immediately. I can only assume that at 70 mph, the same would occur.

ironside7

TLCfor4:

Your experience seems exceptionally dangerous. This issue needs to be raised with some of the big wigs at Toyota, in case they don't already know about it. Has anyone who has experienced this problem written to Toyota Corporate? If not, perhaps a letter should be written (with a copy to the NHTSA), with support for a recall coming from the various people on this board who have had similar experiences.

tlcman

The best I can tell you to do is rig the door sensor (the little black button that turns the dome lights and door open sensor on and off), you can rig a cutoff to the main lighting harness. In 95 Toyota made a FJ and FZJ-80 wiring manual, if you can get a hold of one this might tell you where the wiring is, and if it has the FZJ-80 wiring it it, then it will show you how Toyota OEM made it. The only draw back with attaching the relay to the door sensor is that every time you open the door the lights would go off and when you shut it they would go back on. To solve this you would need a relay switch to the ignition as well, so that when it is in the "Off" position the lights dont stay on. This is of course to duplicate what it is in the later models, in my FZJ-80 94' the lights stay on even witht eh key out until the driver side door is open. This might be more of a hassle than it is worth. If i could draw a picture i would but i cant. You might also try talking to the dealership and see if they can recommend any easy solution.

oldman

hank14, I think the TPS on most cars is a rheostat-like device on the end of the butterfly throttle plate shaft, opposite to the end where the accelerator cable spools to a bracket. It is a small device perhaps 4 cm with aplastic cap over the top.

Thanks to the posters, that info may come in handy if mine goes haywire! So far my 99 has been bulletproof. I agree with the fellow who said he had no intention of selling it after 115k miles. That's just broken in for a LC. My partner has 200k and just recently had the drive belts and one idle pulley replaced, the only stuff fixed aside from the usual items like brakes, tires, oil.

dickballard

It has been about a month since I checked into this site so I just saw your post. The information below applies to my 03 LC as purchased last August.

The towing brake controller connector is about a foot above the accelerator pedal area behind the right side of the driver's knee crush panel. It is very well concealed, but can be easily seen if you remove the horizontal heat duct at the bottom of that panel. No need to remove the panel.

A hex head screw at the left end of the duct must be removed using pliers from the side. You can't get a regular nut driver tool in there without removing the panel. With the screw out it's just a matter of jostling the duct out of the two end fittings. Then look straight up for a white 5-pin connector with nothing plugged into it.

Toyota does not supply a mating connector and cable for the LC, but they do for the Tundra. The Tundra part number (82132-0C010) is correct for the LC. I had to convince the dealer of that fact before he would get one for me since it is not listed in their database for the LC. I talked them into giving me one from a Tundra on the lot and re-ordering a replacement.

The cable/connector set is not a complete ready-to-use-assembly. Rather it comes with free wire ends which you must wire to the brake controller connector cable wire ends. Toyota includes a sheet with the assembly showing the functional connections. You have to use that along with the brake controller wiring instructions to make up the final cable.

For a Prodigy controller:

Black-Red goes to Prodigy pin A
Green-White goes to Prodigy pin B
Brown goes to Prodigy pin C
Red goes to Prodigy pin D
Green is not used.

I chose to remove and uncrimp the contacts in the Prodigy connector and solder the LC cable wires directly to those pins. But you can also just splice the two cable sets using Prodigy supplied crimp splices.

dickballard

There have been several posts about the accelerator pedal and/or throttle position sensors. I don't know which one is failing and being replaced. I would expect that a $250 repair is likely the pedal sensor, whereas the alleged $700 repair cost would more likely be for the throttle valve motor/sensor unit. That one is more complex and even has engine coolant connections to deal with.

From the factory service manuals that I bought when I got my 03 LC, here's some additional info.

As most of you know, the LC throttle control is a fly by wire system - no mechanical connection between the accelerator pedal and throttle butterfly valve. Both of these assemblies communicate with the ECU and the ECU actually controls the throttle valve.

Each of these units has two Hall effect (magnetic) sensors, one for the actual signal and one for validating the other's data. These are non contact sensors - no electrical wiping action to wear or get dirty. By this means, the ECU knows both the accelerator pedal position and the throttle valve position and has redundancy checks on both of them. The throttle valve position is set by a motor which is controlled by the ECU.

So the ECU decides on actual throttle position based not only on driver input but also on all of the other inputs it has access to (RPM, road speed, temperature, etc).

The failure mode described (default to idle speed only) could arise for a couple of reasons.

Specifically described in the FSM is a failed redundancy check where the two sensors in either the pedal control or the throttle assembly disagree with each other. That sets a trouble code and triggers the idle only condition.

A second reason for the failure (not described specifically in the FSM) could be that an ECU requested change in the throttle position did not take place (sticking throttle valve). Here the idle speed default sounds like a particularly good idea to prevent an unintended acceleration situation, provided that the throttle motor can overcome the sticking condition.

When I was looking at LC's last summer, one dealer indicated that there was a recall on all Toyota V8's for just that problem - sticking throttle valve. But I have never seen it confirmed anywhere. I suspect that at least internally at Toyota there is some kind of contingency planning or "secret" recall agenda should this kind of problem become widespread.

vcheng

....with a Toyota V8 of course was recalled a few weeks ago to have the entire throttle body replaced. The campaign had the code 3LF. May be there's some truth to what dickballard wrote.

vavavavolvo

There's alot of truth to what Ballard writes. This guy is a reference-standard scientist. I have enjoyed watching documentaries on his deep water explorations. This is, after all, the guy who was able to find the Titanic in 3500 feet of water....we better take him seriously! Dick, I admire you and all you have done, and I feel privileged to own the same vehicle that you have chosen.

His choice of our vehicle is the ultimate acknowledgement of the world-class nature of this magnificent vehicle.

tlcman

I never saw a recall on the cruisers. Was it on TV?

oldman

commence with a drive by wire accelerator? I'm virtually certain my '99 has a metal cable and spool, is not a drive by wire, thankfully! Appreciate the technical data. That is interesting.

Another question for LC: Is there wisdom in repacking the front wheel bearings? At what interval? The maint. guide from Toyota does not make this clear. Some say drive it until it fails because the bearings are a sealed unit.