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Comments

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 23,483
    fintail said:

    That's definitely the silver lining - the Camry does appear to have a tallish greenhouse, which is rare these days.

    The seating and beltline seem to be much lower than the previous version. One parked next to me in my Cobalt, which I think is fairly low and I was looking down into the Camry. I prefer my Gen 8 Malibu which is higher than the Cobalt for seating.

    2015 Cruze 2LT, 2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT

  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 5,192
    Gas here in CA is expensive, but I have to say that I'd rather pay more for gas than having toll booths and toll roads all over the place. It's much less intrusive to just pay at the pump. I don't have a toll road within 80 miles of me and all of our interstates are toll-free.
  • henrynhenryn Houston, TXPosts: 2,575
    Toll roads don't bother me. You just get the EZ-Pass tag and forget about it. It does cost a few dollars, but not really that much.

    The only time I get bothered is when I get a new vehicle. There are places where I just can't go until I take the time to go and get an EZ-Pass tag.
    2018 Ford F150 XLT Crew Cab, 2016 Chrysler Town & Country Touring
  • suydamsuydam Posts: 4,080
    Very happy to live in a state with no toll roads. And the ones that have them have terrible roads (I’m thinking Penn Turnpike in particular).
    '14 Buick Encore Convenience
    '17 Chevy Volt Premiere
  • henrynhenryn Houston, TXPosts: 2,575
    The toll roads here are good. And they save you a lot of time. The only people I hear complain about them are the people who don't bother to get the tag.
    2018 Ford F150 XLT Crew Cab, 2016 Chrysler Town & Country Touring
  • fintailfintail Posts: 47,899
    I'd rather not deal with tolls as well. I don't like tags and similar on my windshield. Having the toll pass on my recent rental cars sometimes bugged me.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 47,899
    I'll probably never drive one, but maybe you are right, and they are trying to be sporty. My mom has a Camry that's a coupe generations back now, and it sits higher - she doesn't care much for ingress/egress in my E-class as it sits low.


    The seating and beltline seem to be much lower than the previous version. One parked next to me in my Cobalt, which I think is fairly low and I was looking down into the Camry. I prefer my Gen 8 Malibu which is higher than the Cobalt for seating.

  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 10,903
    fintail said:

    Not sure if punishing drivers of marginally longer cars will solve anything. Reminds me of the local ideals of ripping out car lanes for seldom-used bike lanes, and cities taking bribes to allow Limebikes to park all over the place after being used for fun and seldom if ever replacing cars.

    Here are the problems in cities:

    Lack of affordable housing close to employment centers

    Lack of comprehensive public transit

    Lack of general infrastructure, which makes housing, transit, and roads that much harder

    (I won't even get into the wage/socio-economic issues underlying in much of this)

    Shorter cars won't make a difference. Tax the living daylights out of offshore capital parkers/money launderers who use local real estate as a casino and residency ticket, use the proceeds to fund transit and infrastructure. Encourage upzoning to allow people to not need to live 20 miles from employment centers to find affordable rent (or if they are lucky, a mortgage). Put first world taxes on those who have benefited most from the past 35 years of moronic tax policy, use the proceeds to fund transit and infrastructure.




    But there's no incentive to buy a Spark or a Mitsubishi, because the bigger cars are not being punished enough.

    Automakers don't want to sell these little cars. They make them as awful as possible.

    Did you see the LA Times story that some of the people that tragically died in the Paradise CA wildfire can thank their local Politicians for implementing Zero Vision (Vision Zero) policies like lane reductions (narrowing) through main street in the heart of town. That section of road became gridlocked during evacuations from the fires, no doubt in part due to the lessening and narrowing of lanes. I wonder if anyone stuck in the gridlock realized the contributory factors besides bad drivers and poor evacuation notice.

    I've long mocked Vision Zero as having zero vision, and this was a good example of unintended consequences of doing idiotic things.
    '16 Audi TTS quattro 2.0T, '15 Audi A4 quattro 2.0T, '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6T
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 10,903
    edited December 2018
    fintail said:

    I'm a MB fanboy, and IMO the true luxury doesn't really come in until the S-class, or maybe a very highly equipped (top few percent of production, MSRP probably >75K+) E. A normal E still does taxi duty in many countries, is usually equipped with a 4 cyl and Tex, etc. I don't see anything wrong with that. The brand was never really only about "luxury", that's something created by this market. It has historically been a build quality/engineering brand with a luxury model range at the top.

    There's a few people at work that have gone with newer MB's lately. One younger lady asked me about oil changes, and I had to call out the MB dealerships oil change pricing the MB tax. The tax for thinking you are rich for buying a MB. That's the US marketing/reputation of MB. Does it come from less than ethical dealerships?
    '16 Audi TTS quattro 2.0T, '15 Audi A4 quattro 2.0T, '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6T
  • fintailfintail Posts: 47,899
    edited December 2018
    In my experience, oil changes and routine services are often not much more at a MB dealer than at an indy shop. Major services and repairs are where they can go crazy. If one wants to have their oil changed or A/B service at a dealer, the convenience (nice waiting area, shuttle, maybe a loaner), might be worth the marginal extra cost. If you're going to have an engine rebuilt outside of warranty, you'll probably want to find a good indy.

    Really, if they bought from the dealer, they should have looked into prepaid maintenance - it can be a considerable savings.
    andres3 said:



    There's a few people at work that have gone with newer MB's lately. One younger lady asked me about oil changes, and I had to call out the MB dealerships oil change pricing the MB tax. The tax for thinking you are rich for buying a MB. That's the US marketing/reputation of MB. Does it come from less than ethical dealerships?

  • fintailfintail Posts: 47,899
    I'll have to look into that. Vision zero is indeed zero vision, a pie in the sky dream concocted by people who don't live in the real world. And I'll wager many of the public sector officials who support it are unwilling to give up their own private cars. Kind of reminds me how cities here want to be pedestrian friendly, but pedestrian traffic controls are still lax at best, while all resources go to bike lanes.
    andres3 said:


    Did you see the LA Times story that some of the people that tragically died in the Paradise CA wildfire can thank their local Politicians for implementing Zero Vision (Vision Zero) policies like lane reductions (narrowing) through main street in the heart of town. That section of road became gridlocked during evacuations from the fires, no doubt in part due to the lessening and narrowing of lanes. I wonder if anyone stuck in the gridlock realized the contributory factors besides bad drivers and poor evacuation notice.

    I've long mocked Vision Zero as having zero vision, and this was a good example of unintended consequences of doing idiotic things.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    andres3 said:

    fintail said:

    Not sure if punishing drivers of marginally longer cars will solve anything. Reminds me of the local ideals of ripping out car lanes for seldom-used bike lanes, and cities taking bribes to allow Limebikes to park all over the place after being used for fun and seldom if ever replacing cars.

    Here are the problems in cities:

    Lack of affordable housing close to employment centers

    Lack of comprehensive public transit

    Lack of general infrastructure, which makes housing, transit, and roads that much harder

    (I won't even get into the wage/socio-economic issues underlying in much of this)

    Shorter cars won't make a difference. Tax the living daylights out of offshore capital parkers/money launderers who use local real estate as a casino and residency ticket, use the proceeds to fund transit and infrastructure. Encourage upzoning to allow people to not need to live 20 miles from employment centers to find affordable rent (or if they are lucky, a mortgage). Put first world taxes on those who have benefited most from the past 35 years of moronic tax policy, use the proceeds to fund transit and infrastructure.




    But there's no incentive to buy a Spark or a Mitsubishi, because the bigger cars are not being punished enough.

    Automakers don't want to sell these little cars. They make them as awful as possible.

    Did you see the LA Times story that some of the people that tragically died in the Paradise CA wildfire can thank their local Politicians for implementing Zero Vision (Vision Zero) policies like lane reductions (narrowing) through main street in the heart of town. That section of road became gridlocked during evacuations from the fires, no doubt in part due to the lessening and narrowing of lanes. I wonder if anyone stuck in the gridlock realized the contributory factors besides bad drivers and poor evacuation notice.

    I've long mocked Vision Zero as having zero vision, and this was a good example of unintended consequences of doing idiotic things.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Well I do see your point there but in the case of the Paradise fire, it was moving, in some places, at a rate of one football field PER SECOND. Some people, depending on where they were, had no chance of survival. Evacuation orders were botched because no one could comprehend a fire moving that fast.

    There are simply too many cars. If everyone in America, every single person, hopped into all the cars in America, there would be nobody in the back seats.
  • henrynhenryn Houston, TXPosts: 2,575
    fintail said:

    I'd rather not deal with tolls as well. I don't like tags and similar on my windshield. Having the toll pass on my recent rental cars sometimes bugged me.

    That just doesn't compute, at least not in my experience. The tag is fairly small, and goes on the windshield, high up. I always place it so that it is behind the rear view mirror such that it is hard to even spot it from the driver's seat.
    2018 Ford F150 XLT Crew Cab, 2016 Chrysler Town & Country Touring
  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoPosts: 116,982
    henryn said:

    fintail said:

    I'd rather not deal with tolls as well. I don't like tags and similar on my windshield. Having the toll pass on my recent rental cars sometimes bugged me.

    That just doesn't compute, at least not in my experience. The tag is fairly small, and goes on the windshield, high up. I always place it so that it is behind the rear view mirror such that it is hard to even spot it from the driver's seat.
    In CO, they want the transponder in the lower right of the windshield. It's pretty small.

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    I have one on my license plate frame--works great, pretty inconspicuous.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 47,899
    Too many cars in some areas, in many others, the population of cars isn't an issue. The areas with congestion need to work on accessible comprehensive public transit - hint: trickle down gift tax policy or poorly designed bike lanes won't make it happen.



    There are simply too many cars. If everyone in America, every single person, hopped into all the cars in America, there would be nobody in the back seats.

  • fintailfintail Posts: 47,899
    I don't want to see it at all. It's unsightly and old tech-looking, to me anyway. I like the idea of a plate-mounted transponder a lot more.
    henryn said:


    That just doesn't compute, at least not in my experience. The tag is fairly small, and goes on the windshield, high up. I always place it so that it is behind the rear view mirror such that it is hard to even spot it from the driver's seat.

  • fushigifushigi Chicago suburbsPosts: 1,459
    IL does it either internal mounted (roughly the size of a D battery), roof mounted for commercial vehicles, or mounted in the front license plate frame. My Infiniti dealer's service loaners use the plate frame (they cover tolls for their loaner fleet); I have the internal model. I mount it above the rearview mirror to aid in covering one of the gap areas where the sun will try to hit my eyes at certain times of day. It's often good enough that I don't need to use the visor extension.
    2017 Infiniti QX60 (me), 2012 Hyundai Elantra (wife)
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 10,903

    andres3 said:

    fintail said:

    Not sure if punishing drivers of marginally longer cars will solve anything. Reminds me of the local ideals of ripping out car lanes for seldom-used bike lanes, and cities taking bribes to allow Limebikes to park all over the place after being used for fun and seldom if ever replacing cars.

    Here are the problems in cities:

    Lack of affordable housing close to employment centers

    Lack of comprehensive public transit

    Lack of general infrastructure, which makes housing, transit, and roads that much harder

    (I won't even get into the wage/socio-economic issues underlying in much of this)

    Shorter cars won't make a difference. Tax the living daylights out of offshore capital parkers/money launderers who use local real estate as a casino and residency ticket, use the proceeds to fund transit and infrastructure. Encourage upzoning to allow people to not need to live 20 miles from employment centers to find affordable rent (or if they are lucky, a mortgage). Put first world taxes on those who have benefited most from the past 35 years of moronic tax policy, use the proceeds to fund transit and infrastructure.




    But there's no incentive to buy a Spark or a Mitsubishi, because the bigger cars are not being punished enough.

    Automakers don't want to sell these little cars. They make them as awful as possible.

    Did you see the LA Times story that some of the people that tragically died in the Paradise CA wildfire can thank their local Politicians for implementing Zero Vision (Vision Zero) policies like lane reductions (narrowing) through main street in the heart of town. That section of road became gridlocked during evacuations from the fires, no doubt in part due to the lessening and narrowing of lanes. I wonder if anyone stuck in the gridlock realized the contributory factors besides bad drivers and poor evacuation notice.

    I've long mocked Vision Zero as having zero vision, and this was a good example of unintended consequences of doing idiotic things.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Well I do see your point there but in the case of the Paradise fire, it was moving, in some places, at a rate of one football field PER SECOND. Some people, depending on where they were, had no chance of survival. Evacuation orders were botched because no one could comprehend a fire moving that fast.

    There are simply too many cars. If everyone in America, every single person, hopped into all the cars in America, there would be nobody in the back seats.
    On the flip side of that coin, there are numerous stories of people that decided the gridlock was fatal, and made the correct decision to huff it on foot and hightail it out of there literally "running for their lives!" It turned out to be the right decision for all those that lived to tell the tale. Lots of abandoned vehicles left on the side of the road/highway.
    '16 Audi TTS quattro 2.0T, '15 Audi A4 quattro 2.0T, '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6T
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 5,192
    I know Paradise as my mother lived there for over 20 years. The main highway through town (and down to Chico), Skyway, was narrowed a few years back from 2 to 1 lane for about a mile. They added diagonal side parking. It was to a) provide more parking for merchants to help the economy; and b) there had been some pedestrian fatalities crossing the street, so it was felt that the new setup would slow cars down and reduce ped risk. Of course since they're in a fire zone and there is no other way out, it was also a choke point for the evacuation. Probably not a good idea, in retrospect. If there had been transit, or many other ways out, it might not have been so bad.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 11,233
    edited December 2018
    RE.: tolls--I pay them only every so often. I pay for gas all the time. In Ohio, the only toll road is the Ohio Turnpike. I'm not aware of PA toll roads other than their turnpike either. Give me cheap gas anytime.

    It's all what you're used to, but I'll take low cost of living and green, rolling hills. I'd move back to my old hometown but just too small for my wife. I enjoy walking in the hardware store there and being called by my first name, and going into one restaurant there and getting hugged by the owner (who was a few years behind me in school). Nothing like that ever happens where I live now, LOL.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 5,192
    edited December 2018
    Re: tolls. I guess I'm tainted by my own experiences; I never pay tolls to go anywhere here in CA, 100s of thousands of miles driven. When my kids were little we went to Orlando and there was a shuttle launch the next morning at like 6am. Nobody else was interested so I got up early and drove my rental car to Titusville. They scrubbed that morning and rescheduled the following morning. So I drove the rt again the next morning and saw the launch.
    I paid somwhere between $20-$40 in tolls (I forget the exact amount) for those two round trips. That was galling when I drive those distances all the time and never pay anything. If nothing else, it's easier to pay more at the pump than stopping at booths. Nowadays you would instead need an invading device on your windshield and to pay another bill each month.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 11,233
    Back to that photo of the white Camry--what on Earth prompted Toyota to make the drooping black lines from the taillights? Looks like the gasket broke and is drooping. In person it's no better.

    For a company that folks claim is so Americanized, the local dealer here had his 50th anniversary a few years ago. The newspaper photo had two execs from Japan presenting him a Samurai sword. Not criticizing, just commenting.
  • berriberri Posts: 10,047
    edited December 2018
    I think Toyota is too influenced by the car buff magazines. They get too concerned about comments like boring. They are fortunate that their reliability reputation has many loyal followers or I think their sales would be taking a hit from some of this extreme anime stuff. Personally, even though I know Lexus is a very well built car, I wouldn't buy one because I find the styling just too butt ugly. The Camry looks are OK to me, but not attractive. However, it costs much less than a Lexus. It shares the same problem for me as the Accord, too low to the ground and very tight headroom with the sunroof.
  • henrynhenryn Houston, TXPosts: 2,575
    berri said:

    I think Toyota is too influenced by the car buff magazines. They get too concerned about comments like boring. They are fortunate that their reliability reputation has many loyal followers or I think their sales would be taking a hit from some of this extreme anime stuff. Personally, even though I know Lexus is a very well built car, I wouldn't buy one because I find the styling just too butt ugly. The Camry looks are OK to me, but not attractive. However, it costs much less than a Lexus. It shares the same problem for me as the Accord, too low to the ground and very tight headroom with the sunroof.

    I have to agree with you on that one (Accord -- very tight headroom with the sunroof). And the really bad part, you can't get a nicely equipped Accord (or CR-V) without the sunroof being a part of the deal. One reason that I haven't owned a Honda in recent decades.

    2018 Ford F150 XLT Crew Cab, 2016 Chrysler Town & Country Touring
  • berriberri Posts: 10,047
    I find sunroofs kind of useless (go convertible or don't bother), but many disagree with me on that. I will say the CRV has better headroom to accommodate a sunroof though than an Accord or Camry. Those sedans, if you are tall, you've got to recline the driver seatback to a gangbanger position in order to fit.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    My enthusiasm for sunroofs has waned over the years with different cars, especially as I worked through things like clogged sunroof drains, rattles, and blinding sun at midday, to say nothing of decreased headroom and electrical glitches. Perhaps if your car was garaged and you used the roof sparingly, these annoyances would matter much to you.
  • suydamsuydam Posts: 4,080
    I love sunroofs. Especially if you in a climate with a lot of grey skies, that little bit of extra light really helps. I’ve never had a problem with leaks, except in my son’s old Mazda 626 when he parked it under a tree in Eugene, Oregon, where the falling wet leaves plus continual rain did a number on the roof and clogged the drains. Had he only cleaned it every now and then . . .
    '14 Buick Encore Convenience
    '17 Chevy Volt Premiere
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    Yes, that's true. If you have a confined cockpit, or a dark interior, a sunroof (or moonroof) can brighten things up. Generally, I've driven cars with an ample greenhouse, so this hasn't been a necessity. Sure might come in handy in a Camaro, though.
  • henrynhenryn Houston, TXPosts: 2,575

    Yes, that's true. If you have a confined cockpit, or a dark interior, a sunroof (or moonroof) can brighten things up. Generally, I've driven cars with an ample greenhouse, so this hasn't been a necessity. Sure might come in handy in a Camaro, though.

    I think the only thing that would help in a Camaro would be to have a convertible, and just leave the top down.
    2018 Ford F150 XLT Crew Cab, 2016 Chrysler Town & Country Touring
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