Ford Focus SVT vs. VW GTI

dtenenbo

Need your advice:
Should I wait for the Focus SVT or buy the VW GTI now?

-hatchback fan

bill_1

That depends on what you are looking for in a car. You didn't specify which GTI (1.8T or VR6) but I would suspect that the GTI in either guise will be a more refined car than the SVT, heck Volkswagen is equipping most of their cars these days like entry level luxury cars.. of course they are also pricing them more like entry level luxury as well (You can get Jettas into the Mid 20s without much effort).

If its a question of value vs performance I would have to think that the SVT will beat the GTI, but if you are looking for more then the GTI is the car.

Oh and you should know that starting next January the GTI will get a new VR6 that will give it better than 200 HP.

wordman93

and the 1.8t will also see an increase in horsepower. VW is claiming 170hp but the engine will actually be putting out 180hp...They don't won't to upset the Audi crowd I think.

I do like the look of the Focus SVT though, and for 18k it may be quite a deal. (I prefer VW though!!!)=)

blackjetta18t1

GTI

nofuschu

Wait for the 2002 GTI in Q1, US market. In-dash CD, stiffer suspension and less body roll should up the anty...these are, in my mind, 3 weaknesses with the current model.The 2002 GTI will be positioned at a lower cost as fewer frills will be found on the GLX model (optional sunroof); you can also opt for the new 200+hp 24v vr6 on the GLS trim or Golf 1.8T...and for crying out loud--have you seen those ridiculous cloth/leather hybrid seats on the Focus SVT?!
Fashion blunder.

ffr

SVT will be better than GTI in: steering, suspension, transmission, ergonomic design, more room, price , warranty, replacement parts price.
GTI will be better than SVT in: finish quality ,fit quality, new 2002 engine will be better.

wordman93

What will the warranty be for the Focus? VW is switching to a 4 year 50k mile bumper to bumper warranty.

chem123

and have no regrets.

thehonza

would you like a quality German made sports car with leather, aluminum and graphite, or a cheaper American car with plastic parts.

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butlersbox

First of all the Golf GTI isn't a German sports car, It's a "Sporty" car but a sports car, it's not! And just like the SVT Focus, the Golf is made in Mexico (not Germany). The SVT Focus will have Leather and aluminum and all that good stuff as well. I think both these cars are great, but referring to one as if it were a Mercedes Benz CKL 55 and the other as if it were a Pinto is not fare. The SVT focus motor was mostly developed by Cosworth, maker of some of the worlds best racing engines and owned by the Audi AG Group. This Focus is built off the european designed ST170. And has lots to offer. The GTI is a nice car, but to judge the SVT before its out isn't right. I've looked into this car quite a bit and I think it will be a great car, especially with it's low production numbers.

moparbad

The Golf is not made in Mexico. The GTI is not made in Mexico. When you start your "opinion" with false information even your opinion is lacking credibility. You are correct that you can not judge the SVT before it is out.
What about low production numbers makes a great car?

seminole_kev

built in Brazil? Also, while the SVT is a limited production auto, the car itself is a regular ZX3 pulled of the assembly line and modified. So it's not exactly a hand built auto. But I'd take the SVT over the GTi just despite the torque difference. SVT should be quite the handler. And it will have a nicer interior than the standard Focus. Oh, and I can pocket the cost difference for something else. But that my opinion, I know other will lean more towards the luxury than performance and take the GTi. To each their own.

diploid

Then where are they made? I've googled it, and an incredible majority of the websites agree that they're assembled in Mexico, while the engines were built in Germany.

moparbad

Brazil. 60% German content and 40% Brazil content.

butlersbox

According to this link, it's made in Mexico.

 http://biz.yahoo.com/ifc/mx/news/91001-3.html

The beetle, Golf & Jetta are all the same car, it only makes sense that they come from the same plant. I think over the past 7 to 10 years, it's been proven that it doesn't matter where a car is built, all car companies have the same robots building them. What does matter is the engineering behind them. Thats what makes a great car, not where it's made. Take Toyota for an example, besides the celica, I can't think of another Toyota in North America that comes from Japan. They are all built in plants in the U.S. And the celica was designed in California! The days where a car is either Japanese, American, German, etc, etc, are truely gone! Car companies are building there cars and getting there parts wherever it makes economical sense for them.

moparbad

Go look at 2001 or 2002 GTI or Golf and check the VIN. The 1st digit of VIN is country of manufacture and W is Germany, 1 USA, 3 Mexico, and 9 Brazil. Second digit is manufacturer and A is Audi, B is VW Brazil, and V is Volkswagen.

The link you posted is wrong. The robots are the same but the people installing seats, wiring, trim and etc. are not. The Jetta and Beetle suffer from greater number of squeeks and rattles (IMHO) and minor assembly defects than do the Golf. http://www.auto.com/autonews/cwirh17_20000517.htm

Number of defects per 100 vehicles for Golf is 187 and Jetta is 234.

diploid

So how does Brazil differ from Mexico? It's still not made in Germany, which was butlersbox's point.

butlersbox

I found that link on your last posting about which cars have the most defects to be interesting. http://www.auto.com/autonews/cwirh17_20000517.htm

 The Ford Focus had a much fewer defects according to your source. Out of 191 vehicles on the list, the Focus was ranked at #131. That's much better than most of the Volkswagon's rankings. The Golf was rank at #153, the GTI was rank at #164, and the Cabrio at #186. The Jetta was only fifth from the bottom, beating only the a Suzuki & three Korean cars at #187. So I guess, according to your source, the SVT Focus would be a better choice for quality alone! And it's made in Mexico/States!

moparbad

According to JD Power you are likely to have 1.31 defects per car with Focus and 1.64 defects per car with GTI so yes there is .33 of a defect extra on the GTI. Focus less defects but I would not make a purchase decision on such an insignificant difference. VW certainly has some work to do to improve quality and especially dealer service.

My main point of contention with bultlersbox was the incorrect assertion that VW GTI/Golf was made in Mexico. It isn't. I am not trying to build a case against the Focus. Also it is my opinion that different manufacturing plants do often have different end quality even if they are building the exact same product. This has been noted by Ford and GM in their plants and they have used the quality difference to decide on which plant to expand or close. The GTI/Golf made in Germany is known to have more defects than GTI/Golf made in Brazil. German car made in Brazil or American car made in Mexico is not hugely important to me.

I like the Ford Focus SVT, ZX3, ZX5, and wagon and also like the Golf and GTI. The SVT offers more performance per dollar than the GTI. Given a choice I would buy a GTI over the Focus SVT simply because I like the GTI interior more.

gfunk3

I have a Golf that was built in Germany, my VIN starts with "W" and I have a few squeaks and rattles after 2 years, not to my suprise. I have also heard a lot about the Focus being recalled many times though and I only remember the Golf being recalled once in the last few years. So does number of defects per car include the severity of the defects or just the exact number of defects? I know someone who has had to take his car in 3 times for recalls already.

wordman93

I'm guessing just the exact number of defects. From what I recall, the Focus has had many recalls since it's introduction a couple of years ago and I bet those recalls are not factored into those reports. Besides being ranked that low isn't really worth bragging about is it? Which GTI are you guys comparing against the SVT? The current 1.8t or the current 2.8 or the not yet released 2.8 24 valve which is expected to have improved handling at a much lower price.

doctorphibes

I would have reservations about both the VW and the Ford. I've driven both (my family used to own a VW dealership even) as daily drivers and I can't say that either one is particularly reliable.

My car in high school was a '91 ('92? First year, anyway) Corrado, and the less said about that car the better. Tons of fun, but the usual early-90s VW electrical problems killed it.

I test drove a '01 Focus ZX3, and it was an astonishingly nice car, but the recalls and problems of the previous model year held us back... plus the salesman assumed we were complete idiots and was a real [non-permissible content removed].

So, you pay your money and take your chances, I guess. The VW is probably the nicer car, at least now, but I swear the damn things are held together by duct tape and bailing wire. Personally, I like the SVT's styling (cloth/leather seats not withstanding), but I'd wait until a direct comparison is possible once the new model year cars are out.

verozahl

Ford salesmen do not leave good impressions on me, and I have been to several in the Detroit Metro area.

VWs today here in North America are at least as good as new Fords. My neighbor works at Volkswagen-Audi North America headquarters, and they have 4 VWs in the driveway for many years. Much better cars these days.

The Focus exterior styling is nicer than the GTI, but the interior of the GTI is simply made out of nicer stuff.

jpvwaudi

VW Golf/GTI final assembly plant= CURTIBA, BRAZIL

Jetta/Beetle/Cabrio= Puebla, Mexico

Its that simple.

emulous

I just traded in my 2001 Impreza RS for an SVT Focus. There were many reasons that lead me to it and I'll try to explain them. I have always been a fan of VW GTI's and probably would of bought a 1.8 GTI but my experience with VW dealers in Miami, Atlanta, and Maine made me realize I would hate having to deal with them for service, let alone trying to buy one. They just don't have GTI's in stock and were very unwilling to earn my business.

While I loved my Subaru, I learned to hate driving a sedan, especially when the rear seats don't fold down, so I knew that I wanted a hatch or wagon and had to keep the cost low. I didn't go with an outback sport because of the rear drum brakes.

Low and behold, I went to an SVT Dealer in Maine, and they had three SVT's on the lot, I asked the dealer if I could test drive one and after a strange question about my age (I'm 27), he lead me to the car and made sure it had enough gas for a proper test drive. He asked me politely not to burn up the clutch or tires and let me go along my way. I couldn't believe that a dealer was letting me test drive a car by myself without asking for any ID. The test drive was great, yes the SVT is not as refined as a GTI, and does feel like a less expensive car, but the SVT is much more rewarding after a spirited drive. This dealer was one of the "no haggle" dealers and the price listed was $310 dollars more than Edmunds TMV for the car that day, (the TMV has since gone up), they gave me $2000 more than what Edmunds said the average dealer-trade for my RS was. When we started the paperwork, the dealer wrote down that the car was $200 dollars cheaper than what was listed on their "no haggle price" without me having to say a word. With the special SVT service that includes a distinct customer service number, as well as a free loaner car with all service (with the exception of just an oil change) I felt a little more comfortable about buying a Ford. One thing I know is that when the car is out of warranty the ford will be much cheaper to repair than the VW.

That's basically why I went with the SVT over the GTI, the buying experience was just a lot better, I have had repeatable miserable experiences in trying to buy VW's over the years that I went with another brand.

Hopefully I won't regret giving up the AWD for traction control this winter in Maine.

scootch

emulous: Congratulations on joining the SVT Focus owners club! That was an impressive story about getting the opportunity to take an unescorted test drive in one. I got a test drive but the sales guy called the sales manager to check to see if it ws OK to take the car on the freeway. Turned out it was but the salesman tagged along. What color and accessories did you end up with? I ended up with a black one with the blue interior. The only option it had was the subwoofer $675 thing which I didn't want but bit the bullet (I didn't even own a single CD at the time I bought the car!). I did want the sunroof (being in LA the weathers pretty decent and I've grown to like them since I've had them in my previous two cars. It's kind of funny. Of the half dozen or so SVT Focii I've seen on lots, they all had the subwoofer thingy but none had sunroofs which I thought, given where I live, was odd. Saw my first "factory sunroof" in an SVT Focus last weekend. I ended up having a Webasto installed (which is a bit bigger than the factory model - had a similar one installed on my previous ZX3) which was about 80% more than the factory version!

Let us know from time to time how you and your new SVT Focus are getting along. Keep track of your gas mileage and see if you can beat the lousy 25 mph EPA highway rating. My last tank was 27.3.

emulous

Thanks for the welcome scootch. Since it's off the topic I'll reply in the SVT Focus room and see if we can get that room back to life.

novoq

Special edition Focus SVT in Spring

http://media.ford.com/events/2002_SEMA.cfm

revka

Due to speculated demand, this discussion has moved back form our arhived files and reopened. Thanks for your participation!

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