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Comments

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490

    Buy a motorcycle.

    Ya mean motorsickles don't have reverse gears?  :p

    Honda Gold Wing has had an electric reverse for years. Some sidecar bikes have a gear-driven reverse but driving a motorcycle in reverse is most definitely a sure way to crash.
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 11,063

    Rear cross traffic alert.

    @stickguy

    What do you think the range is on rear cross traffic alert though? Will it warn you about someone far away gaining fast on you? If you are backing out slowly, it takes some time to get 3/4 of the way out, and then your a sitting duck.
    '16 Audi TTS quattro 2.0T, '15 Audi A4 quattro 2.0T, '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion AWD
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 15,681
    Buy a motorcycle.

    Ya mean motorsickles don't have reverse gears?  :p
    Mine does, it's called my feet.

    2008 Sebring Ragtop, 2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • abacomikeabacomike South FloridaPosts: 10,599
    stickguy said:
    Rear cross traffic alert.
    Bingo. I love mine. very helpful, especially when stuck in a small car between big trucks! And this story is also why I park as far out as possible and hoof it in. That, and to stay far away from shopping carts. plus exercise is good for you.
    No question about it - front and rear cross traffic alert systems are great.  Coupled with those features, my car stops/brakes if it senses an imminent collision with front or rear cross traffic.  Same for pedestrians - it alerts and automatically stops the car if there is an imminent collision sensed.

    The system uses cameras and sensors on both left and right front and rear bumpers.  I can’t tell you how many times in the past 9 months it has saved me from hitting a car or a pedestrian.

    2018 Mercedes S450

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 15,681
    thebean said:
    andres3 said:
    I'm just curious, is anything ever your fault?
    Absolutely. I take blame when blame is due. Like when I was a teenager and rear-ended somebody at about 5 MPH; thankfully there was no visible damage. My car had a damaged license plate and that's about it. I suppose the license plate frame showed plastic stress "coloring" from being compressed. I'm still thinking the photos show more of a "side" impact than they do my rear going into her. The damage clearly shows fast motion from the right to the left. Not from being compressed inward.
    By the description of the damage to her vehicle she had to be behind you or just almost so when you started backing out. Otherwise how would you have damaged her car doors. If you were at least 3/4ths of the way out and she came by and hit you her damage would have been far more towards the front. based on where you say her damage was I would tend to believe your insurance company did the right thing.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Not necessarily. If she didn't see him backing out due to distraction, she could have easily have run into his corner as he was far out of the parking spot. I know we tend to disbelieve @andres3 because of his love of speed, but I'm kind of on his side here, looking at things objectively.
    Not so sure, if he was out as far as he said he was and she was inattentive she would have struck him damaging her front end. 

    2008 Sebring Ragtop, 2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 34,037
    andres3 said:

    Rear cross traffic alert.

    @stickguy

    What do you think the range is on rear cross traffic alert though? Will it warn you about someone far away gaining fast on you? If you are backing out slowly, it takes some time to get 3/4 of the way out, and then your a sitting duck.
    depends I think on the angle the car is coming at. If it makes a sharp turn you get less notice. But based on backing out of my driveway, with cars coming down the road at normal speed (say 25-30), with a clearer view it gives a pretty good heads up.

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 11,063


    thebean said:


    andres3 said:

    I'm just curious, is anything ever your fault?

    Absolutely. I take blame when blame is due. Like when I was a teenager and rear-ended somebody at about 5 MPH; thankfully there was no visible damage. My car had a damaged license plate and that's about it. I suppose the license plate frame showed plastic stress "coloring" from being compressed.

    I'm still thinking the photos show more of a "side" impact than they do my rear going into her. The damage clearly shows fast motion from the right to the left. Not from being compressed inward.

    By the description of the damage to her vehicle she had to be behind you or just almost so when you started backing out. Otherwise how would you have damaged her car doors. If you were at least 3/4ths of the way out and she came by and hit you her damage would have been far more towards the front. based on where you say her damage was I would tend to believe your insurance company did the right thing.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Not necessarily. If she didn't see him backing out due to distraction, she could have easily have run into his corner as he was far out of the parking spot. I know we tend to disbelieve @andres3 because of his love of speed, but I'm kind of on his side here, looking at things objectively.

    Not so sure, if he was out as far as he said he was and she was inattentive she would have struck him damaging her front end. 

    You keep assuming she was in her proper lane. If she's distracted it's not much of a jump to put her anywhere between the two rows of parked cars.
    '16 Audi TTS quattro 2.0T, '15 Audi A4 quattro 2.0T, '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion AWD
  • abacomikeabacomike South FloridaPosts: 10,599
    When backing out of a parking space or a driveway, if you hit a pedestrian or another car, the fault is yours.  Sure, there is often contributory negligence on the part of a pedestrian or car driver for not reacting appropriately to your car backing up, but try to prove contributory negligence in those cases.  Unless you have 2-3 witnesses who observed that the pedestrian was purposely walking into your car or that the car driver was texting at the time of the accident, the preponderance of fault is attributed to the driver backing out of the parking space.

    My cross traffic alert and braking system reacts in milliseconds- if I don’t brake quickly enough, the car will.

    2018 Mercedes S450

  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 11,063
    abacomike said:

    When backing out of a parking space or a driveway, if you hit a pedestrian or another car, the fault is yours.  Sure, there is often contributory negligence on the part of a pedestrian or car driver for not reacting appropriately to your car backing up, but try to prove contributory negligence in those cases.  Unless you have 2-3 witnesses who observed that the pedestrian was purposely walking into your car or that the car driver was texting at the time of the accident, the preponderance of fault is attributed to the driver backing out of the parking space.

    My cross traffic alert and braking system reacts in milliseconds- if I don’t brake quickly enough, the car will.

    Do you think braking to a stop milliseconds before impact would save you completely? They could argue your already in the way of their travel lane, and they just couldn't stop in time. Being stopped helps, because be definition you are no longer backing up, you are on more equal footing then, but, I could still see you getting 50% blame in such a case. Even better would be a system that could floor the throttle for a split second and put you in forward gear a;; at the same time to shoot forward about 10' as fast as possible; moving you out of harms way.
    '16 Audi TTS quattro 2.0T, '15 Audi A4 quattro 2.0T, '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion AWD
  • suydamsuydam Posts: 4,149
    It’s a great warning system. Especially in crowded malls. Will it stop every accident? No. But it sure helps you avoid a lot of trouble.
    '14 Buick Encore Convenience
    '17 Chevy Volt Premiere
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 15,681
    andres3 said:
    andres3 said:
    I'm just curious, is anything ever your fault?
    Absolutely. I take blame when blame is due. Like when I was a teenager and rear-ended somebody at about 5 MPH; thankfully there was no visible damage. My car had a damaged license plate and that's about it. I suppose the license plate frame showed plastic stress "coloring" from being compressed. I'm still thinking the photos show more of a "side" impact than they do my rear going into her. The damage clearly shows fast motion from the right to the left. Not from being compressed inward.
    By the description of the damage to her vehicle she had to be behind you or just almost so when you started backing out. Otherwise how would you have damaged her car doors. If you were at least 3/4ths of the way out and she came by and hit you her damage would have been far more towards the front. based on where you say her damage was I would tend to believe your insurance company did the right thing.
    It certainly appears that way, but the problem is I hadn't "just started backing out." I was backing out for quite some time already before colliding with her. She was no where near me when I started backing out. Want to do the math on how many feet of distance you cover at 20 MPH (admittedly a guess at her speed) over let's say, 5 seconds? She came from very far away to hit me the way she did. She was not in the proper right lane. I don't think she tried to swerve to avoid me which only leaves two possibilities: 1) She sought out to hit me as I was backing out, and aimed for just behind me. 2) She was in the middle or center left of the two narrow lanes in the parking lot, and not in her proper travel lane. If she was driving on the proper side of the travel lane of the parking lot, she would have hit my doors, instead of vice versa. 3) She was most definitely carrying some speed, I'm pretty sure my guessitimate of 20 is good +/- 5 MPH. At 1 MPH, no one that is parked should be able to hit the front half of the side of your vehicle. That tends to show the coast was not clear IMO. If your back half is hit, that favors the woman. I think insurance companies just look at who was moving and who reached the point of impact first. Since she was going 15 to 20X faster than me, she got there first, but I most definitely had to "pull back in" after getting out of my car, because it was in the way, precisely as I've remembered and described the events. Unfortunately for me, there were several people nearby, but they did not see what happened, they only looked after hearing the sound of a collision, but they were in the parking lot very close by, too bad! I definitely asked them if they saw what she did because an eye witness would have been helpful.
    The problem is if she didnt swerve then you hit her as you were backing out plain and simple, otherwise her damage would have been on her front end. Seeing that your contact with that other car is at the front door tells me that you backed into her as she was passing you. 

    Now at 1 MPH you would be traveling at about a foot and a half or so a second. this means you would travel between at least 2 to 3 feet into her path before she could have even touched the brakes. Add that to the stopping distance it is easy to see that you may have not seen her when you started to back up.

    I would really like to hear her side of the story. But by your description of the damage there is not much I can come up with. 

    2008 Sebring Ragtop, 2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • abacomikeabacomike South FloridaPosts: 10,599
    andres3 said:
    When backing out of a parking space or a driveway, if you hit a pedestrian or another car, the fault is yours.  Sure, there is often contributory negligence on the part of a pedestrian or car driver for not reacting appropriately to your car backing up, but try to prove contributory negligence in those cases.  Unless you have 2-3 witnesses who observed that the pedestrian was purposely walking into your car or that the car driver was texting at the time of the accident, the preponderance of fault is attributed to the driver backing out of the parking space.

    My cross traffic alert and braking system reacts in milliseconds- if I don’t brake quickly enough, the car will.
    Do you think braking to a stop milliseconds before impact would save you completely? They could argue your already in the way of their travel lane, and they just couldn't stop in time. Being stopped helps, because be definition you are no longer backing up, you are on more equal footing then, but, I could still see you getting 50% blame in such a case. Even better would be a system that could floor the throttle for a split second and put you in forward gear a;; at the same time to shoot forward about 10' as fast as possible; moving you out of harms way.
    I am not attempting to describe “at fault” blame in my several posts.  My car stops - period!  If you had my cross traffic/pedestrian system on your car, you would not have hit that woman’s car.  She might have hit you - but you wouldn’t have hit her - like you did.

    Just accept the fact that you backed into her while she was driving legally.  

    2018 Mercedes S450

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 23,778
    Years ago my wife and a Honda tangled in a parking lot. She was backing out slowly and he turned into her from the parallel drive so that her right rear bumper and his right rear door met. It seemed like the thin Honda metal was damaged a whole lot more than the slight bumper scrape on the LeSabre. The insurance companies each paid for their own car since both cars were moving. Police do not respond unless there's an injury.

    2015 Cruze 2LT, 2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT

  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 11,063


    andres3 said:


    andres3 said:

    I'm just curious, is anything ever your fault?

    Absolutely. I take blame when blame is due. Like when I was a teenager and rear-ended somebody at about 5 MPH; thankfully there was no visible damage. My car had a damaged license plate and that's about it. I suppose the license plate frame showed plastic stress "coloring" from being compressed.

    I'm still thinking the photos show more of a "side" impact than they do my rear going into her. The damage clearly shows fast motion from the right to the left. Not from being compressed inward.

    By the description of the damage to her vehicle she had to be behind you or just almost so when you started backing out. Otherwise how would you have damaged her car doors. If you were at least 3/4ths of the way out and she came by and hit you her damage would have been far more towards the front. based on where you say her damage was I would tend to believe your insurance company did the right thing.
    It certainly appears that way, but the problem is I hadn't "just started backing out." I was backing out for quite some time already before colliding with her. She was no where near me when I started backing out. Want to do the math on how many feet of distance you cover at 20 MPH (admittedly a guess at her speed) over let's say, 5 seconds? She came from very far away to hit me the way she did. She was not in the proper right lane. I don't think she tried to swerve to avoid me which only leaves two possibilities:

    1) She sought out to hit me as I was backing out, and aimed for just behind me.

    2) She was in the middle or center left of the two narrow lanes in the parking lot, and not in her proper travel lane. If she was driving on the proper side of the travel lane of the parking lot, she would have hit my doors, instead of vice versa.

    3) She was most definitely carrying some speed, I'm pretty sure my guessitimate of 20 is good +/- 5 MPH. At 1 MPH, no one that is parked should be able to hit the front half of the side of your vehicle. That tends to show the coast was not clear IMO. If your back half is hit, that favors the woman. I think insurance companies just look at who was moving and who reached the point of impact first. Since she was going 15 to 20X faster than me, she got there first, but I most definitely had to "pull back in" after getting out of my car, because it was in the way, precisely as I've remembered and described the events.

    Unfortunately for me, there were several people nearby, but they did not see what happened, they only looked after hearing the sound of a collision, but they were in the parking lot very close by, too bad! I definitely asked them if they saw what she did because an eye witness would have been helpful.

    The problem is if she didnt swerve then you hit her as you were backing out plain and simple, otherwise her damage would have been on her front end. Seeing that your contact with that other car is at the front door tells me that you backed into her as she was passing you. 

    Now at 1 MPH you would be traveling at about a foot and a half or so a second. this means you would travel between at least 2 to 3 feet into her path before she could have even touched the brakes. Add that to the stopping distance it is easy to see that you may have not seen her when you started to back up.

    I would really like to hear her side of the story. But by your description of the damage there is not much I can come up with. 


    She managed to sneak her front end behind me "just in time" for me to back into her. Hence the damage to my right corner despite backing out straight. This is the essence of your argument and what I think ultimately won her case for her, the fact is I was still moving rearward when she got behind me.

    Saying she's a terrible driver for allowing her car to be hit by a car moving 1 MPH for over 5 seconds at a constant speed and direction, is a true statement, but it doesn't change fault in the eyes of insurance company.

    She was equally as bad or as good as a completely blind driver, and just happened to have gotten lucky with her position and timing. I was easily about 10' into the path of travel before I was hit, but since I was still moving, you can technically say we hit each other, and she had the right of way.

    At the point where I was hit I was so far back I actually was well past the point of "letting my guard down" regarding side impacts, and was merely looking directly behind me. Anyone with 2 working eyeballs that was actually actively using them would not have impacted my vehicle, of that I'm 100% certain.
    '16 Audi TTS quattro 2.0T, '15 Audi A4 quattro 2.0T, '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion AWD
  • tbirdmarcotbirdmarco new yorkPosts: 3,838


  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 11,063
    edited August 2018
    abacomike said:


    andres3 said:

    abacomike said:

    When backing out of a parking space or a driveway, if you hit a pedestrian or another car, the fault is yours.  Sure, there is often contributory negligence on the part of a pedestrian or car driver for not reacting appropriately to your car backing up, but try to prove contributory negligence in those cases.  Unless you have 2-3 witnesses who observed that the pedestrian was purposely walking into your car or that the car driver was texting at the time of the accident, the preponderance of fault is attributed to the driver backing out of the parking space.

    My cross traffic alert and braking system reacts in milliseconds- if I don’t brake quickly enough, the car will.

    Do you think braking to a stop milliseconds before impact would save you completely? They could argue your already in the way of their travel lane, and they just couldn't stop in time. Being stopped helps, because be definition you are no longer backing up, you are on more equal footing then, but, I could still see you getting 50% blame in such a case. Even better would be a system that could floor the throttle for a split second and put you in forward gear a;; at the same time to shoot forward about 10' as fast as possible; moving you out of harms way.

    I am not attempting to describe “at fault” blame in my several posts.  My car stops - period!  If you had my cross traffic/pedestrian system on your car, you would not have hit that woman’s car.  She might have hit you - but you wouldn’t have hit her - like you did.

    Just accept the fact that you backed into her while she was driving legally.  

    Let me fix your statement so that it makes sense:

    "Just accept the fact that you backed into her while she was driving with right of way precedence legally.

    Now I get why old fuddy duddies don't like fast drivers. You're afraid you could get blamed when someone going 100 hits you doing 10 MPH, or in my case, approximately 20 MPH vs. my 1-2 MPH.

    Simple physics should make it easy for a car moving 10 to 20X faster to avoid one moving 10 to 20 times slower!

    Particularly at parking lot speeds, how long should one reasonably take to react to a backing out vehicle? Seems like a sure-fire way to inspire insurance fraud. If I wanted to commit insurance fraud, now I know how. Just target a vehicle backing out of a parking space, and make sure you fly by with just inches to spare to make it seem like they backed into you!



    '16 Audi TTS quattro 2.0T, '15 Audi A4 quattro 2.0T, '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion AWD
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 13,858
    @abacomike,
    Consider it a lesson learned. There is a saying "Don't feed the troll".
    2017 Ford Fusion SE 2017 Ford F-150 Limited
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 11,063
    I just think the rule of thumb for parking lots should be changed to:

    1. Front half of the side of your car gets backed into (forward moving car's fault assuming both are moving).

    2. Back half of the side of your car gets backed into (backing up car's fault assuming both are moving).

    Of course, most of the time when you back out you are turning; this was a rare case.

    At least it was the VW and not the Audi :open_mouth:

    '16 Audi TTS quattro 2.0T, '15 Audi A4 quattro 2.0T, '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion AWD
  • abacomikeabacomike South FloridaPosts: 10,599
    @abacomike, Consider it a lesson learned. There is a saying "Don't feed the troll".
    At least we aren’t involved in speeding tickets, lawyers, traffic court, speeders and red light cameras!  It’s still no blessing in disguise.  :D

    2018 Mercedes S450

  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaPosts: 11,241
    The changeover to SSO missed a tremendous opportunity, I think.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6, 1968 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Holiday Coupe

  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaPosts: 13,208
    andres3 said:

    Well, I'm sad to report the Alltrack has been violated. This one, as I figured, knowing insurance companies, was pinned on me, despite being 95% caused by the other female driver.

    I was backing out (game over; Insurance company stops listening at this point). I was going very slow, slower than I usually back out, maybe only 1 MPH (but speed kills :angry: )

    Well, not to harp on speed, but I think a crash assessment would clearly show excessive speed on the part of the other vehicle if that driver was going too fast for a parking lot. A collision of that magnitude in a parking lot surely indicates that at least one party was moving waaaaay too fast.
    2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2008 and 2013 Subaru Forester(s), 1969 Chevrolet C20 Pickup, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250 Pickup
  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaPosts: 13,208
    edited August 2018
    abacomike said:

    I can’t tell you how many times in the past 9 months it has saved me from hitting a car or a pedestrian.
    That's a bit scary! How many did you hit prior to having that system?! :)

    I think that if I had a system like that, it would only serve to anger me. If I hit something, it is often because I intend to hit it. For example, if my car stopped itself because a dog ran out in front of me, I would be quite annoyed. I would much rather hit a dog at 5mph than have my car stop me. The dog learns nothing good from the car stopping. :(

    My neighbors used to have a dog that liked to chase cars. After I hit it once at low speed (all the neighbors would stop instead, and then complain about the dog chasing cars), it never chased another car... and the neighbors were able to keep their dog. A much better alternative than the inevitable dogcake.

    2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2008 and 2013 Subaru Forester(s), 1969 Chevrolet C20 Pickup, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250 Pickup
  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaPosts: 13,208
    edited August 2018
    I should rephrase.

    Please consider showing a little more courtesy to all our posters here, rather than feeling entitled to throw insults just because you take different points of view.
    2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2008 and 2013 Subaru Forester(s), 1969 Chevrolet C20 Pickup, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250 Pickup
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 11,063
    xwesx said:

    andres3 said:

    Well, I'm sad to report the Alltrack has been violated. This one, as I figured, knowing insurance companies, was pinned on me, despite being 95% caused by the other female driver.

    I was backing out (game over; Insurance company stops listening at this point). I was going very slow, slower than I usually back out, maybe only 1 MPH (but speed kills :angry: )

    Well, not to harp on speed, but I think a crash assessment would clearly show excessive speed on the part of the other vehicle if that driver was going too fast for a parking lot. A collision of that magnitude in a parking lot surely indicates that at least one party was moving waaaaay too fast.
    Yes, the fact she didn't stop till at least 2 car length past me tends to indicate that, in addition to the damage she did to her car which fared far worse than mine. I know the Civic doesn't have 6-piston Brembos, but it's also a pretty light car that can brake fast.

    The problem with blaming speed though is that all she had to do was hit the brakes, or the gas, or swerve a bit more to avoid me! Who knows, maybe she did swerve a bit and in an epic error of judgment didn't swerve hard enough to make tire noises and/or avoid me. Or maybe she sped up thinking she'd get by me and the Civic's little motor failed her.

    If she was going 40 then maybe excessive speed had a role. I think speed was a factor for her, even at 20, as she obviously wasn't paying attention. You certainly shouldn't drive fast if your going to text and drive. You shouldn't even drive slow and text and drive though.

    Given the narrow travel lanes between parking lot spots, I'd say she was going too fast for her.
    '16 Audi TTS quattro 2.0T, '15 Audi A4 quattro 2.0T, '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion AWD
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    Thank you xwesx--we all need to remember basic civility, even in the thick of the storm.
  • abacomikeabacomike South FloridaPosts: 10,599
    xwesx said:
    I can’t tell you how many times in the past 9 months it has saved me from hitting a car or a pedestrian.
    That's a bit scary! How many did you hit prior to having that system?! :) I think that if I had a system like that, it would only serve to anger me. If I hit something, it is often because I intend to hit it. For example, if my car stopped itself because a dog ran out in front of me, I would be quite annoyed. I would much rather hit a dog at 5mph than have my car stop me. The dog learns nothing good from the car stopping. :( My neighbors used to have a dog that liked to chase cars. After I hit it once at low speed (all the neighbors would stop instead, and then complain about the dog chasing cars), it never chased another car... and the neighbors were able to keep their dog. A much better alternative than the inevitable dogcake.
    On previous cars without that system, I have hit three cars while backing out of a parking space in 55 years of driving.  Not proud - just telling it like it is.  

    This S450 is a huge car and has many blind spots.  The cross traffic/pedestrian system has saved me a lot of anguish.  Each to his/her own.  As I age, I know my eyes and reflexes have suffered.  All this system does is keeps me and others safer.

    2018 Mercedes S450

  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaPosts: 13,208
    edited August 2018
    andres3 said:



    Yes, the fact she didn't stop till at least 2 car length past me tends to indicate that, in addition to the damage she did to her car which fared far worse than mine. I know the Civic doesn't have 6-piston Brembos, but it's also a pretty light car that can brake fast.

    The problem with blaming speed though is that all she had to do was hit the brakes, or the gas, or swerve a bit more to avoid me! Who knows, maybe she did swerve a bit and in an epic error of judgment didn't swerve hard enough to make tire noises and/or avoid me. Or maybe she sped up thinking she'd get by me and the Civic's little motor failed her.

    If she was going 40 then maybe excessive speed had a role. I think speed was a factor for her, even at 20, as she obviously wasn't paying attention. You certainly shouldn't drive fast if your going to text and drive. You shouldn't even drive slow and text and drive though.

    Given the narrow travel lanes between parking lot spots, I'd say she was going too fast for her.

    At ten miles per hour, it takes approximately 27 feet from the time a driver sees an obstacle until they can completely stop the car. Ten is the max reasonable parking lot speed. Faster than that is excessive. At 20 mph, the distance increases to 63 feet. So, not only was the driver not seeing and reacting to a clear threat (e.g., if you were going "1 mph" as you backed, it took a long time for you to reach the position of impact), but also clearly going faster than anything that could be considered a reasonable speed.
    2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2008 and 2013 Subaru Forester(s), 1969 Chevrolet C20 Pickup, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250 Pickup
  • suydamsuydam Posts: 4,149
    xwesx said:

    abacomike said:

    I can’t tell you how many times in the past 9 months it has saved me from hitting a car or a pedestrian.
    That's a bit scary! How many did you hit prior to having that system?! :)

    I think that if I had a system like that, it would only serve to anger me. If I hit something, it is often because I intend to hit it. For example, if my car stopped itself because a dog ran out in front of me, I would be quite annoyed. I would much rather hit a dog at 5mph than have my car stop me. The dog learns nothing good from the car stopping. :(

    My neighbors used to have a dog that liked to chase cars. After I hit it once at low speed (all the neighbors would stop instead, and then complain about the dog chasing cars), it never chased another car... and the neighbors were able to keep their dog. A much better alternative than the inevitable dogcake.

    Herding dogs chase cars because it’s part of their herding nature. It’s very difficult to unlearn that behavior. And certainly one trial learning won’t work on them. My friend’s border. collie just had to be put in the house when company was expected. And in any case, I would certainly rather have my car stop than hit a dog.
    '14 Buick Encore Convenience
    '17 Chevy Volt Premiere
  • abacomikeabacomike South FloridaPosts: 10,599
    xwesx said:
    I should rephrase. Please consider showing a little more courtesy to all our posters here, rather than feeling entitled to throw insults just because you take different points of view.
    Point well taken and appreciated.

    2018 Mercedes S450

  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 11,063
    xwesx said:

    andres3 said:



    Yes, the fact she didn't stop till at least 2 car length past me tends to indicate that, in addition to the damage she did to her car which fared far worse than mine. I know the Civic doesn't have 6-piston Brembos, but it's also a pretty light car that can brake fast.

    The problem with blaming speed though is that all she had to do was hit the brakes, or the gas, or swerve a bit more to avoid me! Who knows, maybe she did swerve a bit and in an epic error of judgment didn't swerve hard enough to make tire noises and/or avoid me. Or maybe she sped up thinking she'd get by me and the Civic's little motor failed her.

    If she was going 40 then maybe excessive speed had a role. I think speed was a factor for her, even at 20, as she obviously wasn't paying attention. You certainly shouldn't drive fast if your going to text and drive. You shouldn't even drive slow and text and drive though.

    Given the narrow travel lanes between parking lot spots, I'd say she was going too fast for her.

    At ten miles per hour, it takes approximately 27 feet from the time a driver sees an obstacle until they can completely stop the car. Ten is the max reasonable parking lot speed. Faster than that is excessive. At 20 mph, the distance increases to 63 feet. So, not only was the driver not seeing and reacting to a clear threat (e.g., if you were going "1 mph" as you backed, it took a long time for you to reach the position of impact), but also clearly going faster than anything that could be considered a reasonable speed.
    I agree with that, unfortunately Geico mentioned that "speed" is difficult to prove without eye witnesses. She was middle aged, have to admit I was expecting to see a young dude pop out of the car.
    '16 Audi TTS quattro 2.0T, '15 Audi A4 quattro 2.0T, '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion AWD
  • tjc78tjc78 South JerseyPosts: 9,164
    edited August 2018
    abacomike said:
    xwesx said:
    I can’t tell you how many times in the past 9 months it has saved me from hitting a car or a pedestrian.
    That's a bit scary! How many did you hit prior to having that system?! :) I think that if I had a system like that, it would only serve to anger me. If I hit something, it is often because I intend to hit it. For example, if my car stopped itself because a dog ran out in front of me, I would be quite annoyed. I would much rather hit a dog at 5mph than have my car stop me. The dog learns nothing good from the car stopping. :( My neighbors used to have a dog that liked to chase cars. After I hit it once at low speed (all the neighbors would stop instead, and then complain about the dog chasing cars), it never chased another car... and the neighbors were able to keep their dog. A much better alternative than the inevitable dogcake.
    On previous cars without that system, I have hit three cars while backing out of a parking space in 55 years of driving.  Not proud - just telling it like it is.  

    This S450 is a huge car and has many blind spots.  The cross traffic/pedestrian system has saved me a lot of anguish.  Each to his/her own.  As I age, I know my eyes and reflexes have suffered.  All this system does is keeps me and others safer.
    That’s one hit every 18.33 years ...

    Could be worse :)

    I love the cross traffic alert.  

    2017 Buick Enclave / 2019 Volvo S60 T6 Inscription

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 13,526
    @andres3 - sucks about your Alltrak.  Thankfully nobody was hurt.  Thankfully you weren’t in your TTS.  There are quite a few parking lots that make me very nervous because of how busy they are and how fast some drivers try to “gun it” to get that last spot.  Like you said, unfortunately you are “at fault” in the eyes of the insurance company because you were in reverse.  The speeding & texting woman in the Civic has the right of way.  

    Get the car fixed & back on the road.  Mile up whatever rental they give you & report back.  Let us know what the total damage is.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2017 Pilot Touring AWD, 2019 Tacoma TRD Sport 4WD

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 13,858
    @abacomike,
    Must be a left coast vs right coast thing.
    OK to hit a dog because it bothers you and you didn't kill it.
    Had a bunny cross the street in front of me this morning, so I slowed down.
    Then it got confused and run straight ahead because it couldn't decide which way to go.
    I didn't hit it to teach a lesson, although it slowed down my commute to work. ;)
    2017 Ford Fusion SE 2017 Ford F-150 Limited
  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaPosts: 13,208
    edited August 2018
    suydam said:


    Herding dogs chase cars because it’s part of their herding nature. It’s very difficult to unlearn that behavior. And certainly one trial learning won’t work on them. My friend’s border. collie just had to be put in the house when company was expected. And in any case, I would certainly rather have my car stop than hit a dog.

    Yes, it is a choice we all make. Most herding dogs do pretty well with the car chasing thing. It's the dumb ones that run out in front of the cars to "chase" them that generally end up in the doggie morgue. This was one of those, but it didn't end up there thanks to my efforts. And, really, that's my point: A program and sensors cannot read situations to determine the best course of action; all they can do is make the same response to a given set of input parameters.
    2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2008 and 2013 Subaru Forester(s), 1969 Chevrolet C20 Pickup, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250 Pickup
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 15,681
    abacomike said:
    xwesx said:
    I can’t tell you how many times in the past 9 months it has saved me from hitting a car or a pedestrian.
    That's a bit scary! How many did you hit prior to having that system?! :) I think that if I had a system like that, it would only serve to anger me. If I hit something, it is often because I intend to hit it. For example, if my car stopped itself because a dog ran out in front of me, I would be quite annoyed. I would much rather hit a dog at 5mph than have my car stop me. The dog learns nothing good from the car stopping. :( My neighbors used to have a dog that liked to chase cars. After I hit it once at low speed (all the neighbors would stop instead, and then complain about the dog chasing cars), it never chased another car... and the neighbors were able to keep their dog. A much better alternative than the inevitable dogcake.
    On previous cars without that system, I have hit three cars while backing out of a parking space in 55 years of driving.  Not proud - just telling it like it is.  

    This S450 is a huge car and has many blind spots.  The cross traffic/pedestrian system has saved me a lot of anguish.  Each to his/her own.  As I age, I know my eyes and reflexes have suffered.  All this system does is keeps me and others safer.
    Once in 40 years of driving and that was 30 some years ago. It was the only accident I ever had in a parking lot. 

    2008 Sebring Ragtop, 2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 15,681
    suydam said:
    I can’t tell you how many times in the past 9 months it has saved me from hitting a car or a pedestrian.
    That's a bit scary! How many did you hit prior to having that system?! :) I think that if I had a system like that, it would only serve to anger me. If I hit something, it is often because I intend to hit it. For example, if my car stopped itself because a dog ran out in front of me, I would be quite annoyed. I would much rather hit a dog at 5mph than have my car stop me. The dog learns nothing good from the car stopping. :( My neighbors used to have a dog that liked to chase cars. After I hit it once at low speed (all the neighbors would stop instead, and then complain about the dog chasing cars), it never chased another car... and the neighbors were able to keep their dog. A much better alternative than the inevitable dogcake.
    Herding dogs chase cars because it’s part of their herding nature. It’s very difficult to unlearn that behavior. And certainly one trial learning won’t work on them. My friend’s border. collie just had to be put in the house when company was expected. And in any case, I would certainly rather have my car stop than hit a dog.
    I may have told this story before. My sister was a rural route carrier for the Post Office in Colorado. One of the places she delivered mail to had this dog that would run up to her car, clamp down on the back bumper of her car and wouldn't let go. She had to slowly drive away dragging the dog until it let go. 

    2008 Sebring Ragtop, 2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • fintailfintail Posts: 48,377
    That reminds me of a good one I saw when I was a kid in the early 90s. A relative with a fetish for big cars had a Lincoln Mark IV, and was rear-ended by a Geo Prizm. I swear I couldn't see damage on the Lincoln, and the Geo had to be hauled away by tow truck. No injuries to either party, but the Lincoln driver said the car had issues after the crash, maybe frame-related as the alignment was always off after that, and they soon replaced it with a 1965 Cadillac. Fun taste in cars. This person is now roughly 60, and drives a Jeep Liberty - fun car days gone.

    When I was a little kid, my mom had some kind of parking lot run-in while in her big T-Bird, I think a Brady Bunch type event where both cars backed out at the same time and bumped each other. I think the other car was an early Celebrity or something, which had some damage, while the T-Bird had nary a scratch due to being built like a tank with thick bumpers. I don't recall the verdict on that, but I think something happened with insurance.

    Years ago my wife and a Honda tangled in a parking lot. She was backing out slowly and he turned into her from the parallel drive so that her right rear bumper and his right rear door met. It seemed like the thin Honda metal was damaged a whole lot more than the slight bumper scrape on the LeSabre. The insurance companies each paid for their own car since both cars were moving. Police do not respond unless there's an injury.

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 34,037
    speaking of miling up a rental, my BIL has had a loaner Jag for a couple of weeks now. His XF is in for some weird rattle that requires welding in the B pillar (hey, it's a Jag, don't ask). And of course, dealer tried and did not get it, now corporate is involved, etc.

    anyway, between taking his loaner XE on vacation, and back to work for a week, he has already put on over 1,600 miles on the loaner. he wants his hotrod version back, but is enjoying putting miles on their car! Might have to bring it back for an oil change (maybe new tires) though soon.

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 25,099
    Now I get why old fuddy duddies don't like fast drivers. You're afraid you could get blamed when someone going 100 hits you doing 10 MPH, or in my case, approximately 20 MPH vs. my 1-2 MPH


    Seems like the rule is....drive faster than average when going forward.....go much slower than average when backing up.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Alamogordo, NMPosts: 7,615
    I know that with my 2011 Kia Soul, backing up is something I must be careful doing. A backup camera would be cool, and it does have a decently big back window, it's just the rest of the box shape is ample enough in dimension ta make my backups slow and careful, especially in a busy southern New Mexico parking lot.

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Alamogordo, NMPosts: 7,615
    ab348 - yeah the idea of deleting cookies is an interesting one to try and get myself logged in to Edmunds on my desktop. I notice my browser lists cookies from many sources, about 15 of them related to Edmunds alone. I want a little more information before I go hacking and punting, like I hope the Eagles and Patriots have to do a lot of this NFL regular season.

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaPosts: 13,208
    stickguy said:

    speaking of miling up a rental, my BIL has had a loaner Jag for a couple of weeks now. His XF is in for some weird rattle that requires welding in the B pillar (hey, it's a Jag, don't ask). And of course, dealer tried and did not get it, now corporate is involved, etc.

    anyway, between taking his loaner XE on vacation, and back to work for a week, he has already put on over 1,600 miles on the loaner. he wants his hotrod version back, but is enjoying putting miles on their car! Might have to bring it back for an oil change (maybe new tires) though soon.

    Hah! Yeah, that is sorta fun. I put a little more than 1,200 miles on the Q3 I had back in January when my Q7 was having the emissions modification performed. They ended up having it for a whole week, and, being nearly 400 miles away.....
    2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2008 and 2013 Subaru Forester(s), 1969 Chevrolet C20 Pickup, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250 Pickup
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Alamogordo, NMPosts: 7,615
    edited August 2018


    2019 Kia Forte

    This is the new Forte - the Sephia came first. Then in 2002 Kia's Spectra was the successor to the Sephia. The Spectra gave way to the Forte. And here's the 2019 Kia Forte. I'm not sure I like those wheels so much. I'll take a more full-up Cragar mag-type look.

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 13,526
    Ive had some great loaner cars over the years.  The 2 favorites that stick out in my mind were a Saab 9-3 SE Convertible & a BMW 335d.

    There is a dealer in northern NJ (Mahwah Honda) that has had loaner cars since the late eighties.  My best friend bought & services his 1992 Prelude Si there.  There were a bunch of ‘88 Civic with stick and ‘92 Civic With a stick.  

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2017 Pilot Touring AWD, 2019 Tacoma TRD Sport 4WD

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 25,099
    I thought this would be a novel way to spruce up a car;

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • tjc78tjc78 South JerseyPosts: 9,164
    Didn’t VW bugs have a little vase for a flower?

    2017 Buick Enclave / 2019 Volvo S60 T6 Inscription

  • bwiabwia Boston Posts: 2,387
    What's going on in Toronto? ….

    According to Bloomberg news "Toronto’s tech scene is so hot the city created more jobs than the San Francisco Bay area, Seattle and Washington, D.C., combined last year, while leapfrogging New York in a ranking of “talent markets.”

    Toronto was the fastest-growing tech-jobs market in 2017, according to CBRE Group Inc.’s latest annual survey, released Tuesday. The city saw 28,900 tech jobs created, 14 percent more than in 2016, for a total of more than 241,000 workers, up 52 percent over the past five years, CBRE said. Downtown, tech accounted for more than a third of demand for office space."

    Read the full article at: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-07-24/toronto-beats-bay-area-in-new-tech-jobs-and-new-york-in-talent
  • graphicguygraphicguy Edmunds Poster EmeritusPosts: 11,553
    bwia said:

    What's going on in Toronto? ….

    According to Bloomberg news "Toronto’s tech scene is so hot the city created more jobs than the San Francisco Bay area, Seattle and Washington, D.C., combined last year, while leapfrogging New York in a ranking of “talent markets.”

    Toronto was the fastest-growing tech-jobs market in 2017, according to CBRE Group Inc.’s latest annual survey, released Tuesday. The city saw 28,900 tech jobs created, 14 percent more than in 2016, for a total of more than 241,000 workers, up 52 percent over the past five years, CBRE said. Downtown, tech accounted for more than a third of demand for office space."

    Read the full article at: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-07-24/toronto-beats-bay-area-in-new-tech-jobs-and-new-york-in-talent

    We have a main office in Mississauga. Toronto area is indeed a hotbed of tech. We’re crying for people at that location and the competition for young techies around there is fierce.
    2018 Acura TLX 3.5 SH AWD A-SPEC
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 13,526
    @abacomike

    I'm glad you had a wonderful visit with your son & grandson for the past few days!

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2017 Pilot Touring AWD, 2019 Tacoma TRD Sport 4WD

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