Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations

venture

jmonroe1 said:

ab348 said:

Michaell said:

What price convenience? @jmonroe1 is just drinking from the fountain of youth, since the no haggle thing is very millennial.

I thought JM lived for the haggle, so I was surprised by his affinity for a no-haggle dealer, a concept that I have always believed works for the dealer but not so much for the buyer. I remember the tales of him sitting down across the desk from the salesperson, unpacking his lunch, and settling in for a long but ultimately productive grind. Reading his story this time was akin to your favorite athlete signing a free agent contract with the former teams most hated rival.

I think you have me confused with the @jipster (he's the sandwich man). I don't know how you can do that because I doubt he looked like Dean Martin in his younger days. I don't do the sandwich thing when I buy. Usually no more than 30 minutes. In the past (the last 15 years) they either bought my car at my price and sold their car at my price or I walked. However, with this new thingy of no-haggle, that seems to be so popular nowadays, the game seems to have changed but that doesn't mean that I will let a dealer steal my car. Walking is still in play when I buy.

As I said before, I was all set to buy a new Subie at a dealer about 120 miles from me because they were the only dealer that had the EXACT Subie I wanted Mrs. j wanted (6 cyl. burgundy over beige). Then at the last minute Son #1 found a 2018 that was exactly what she wanted at a used car dealer about 7 miles away. I was still leaning towards getting the new one when my Son said, "I don't know why you want to spend more money getting a new one. This used car dealer has been around for years and he's known for selling cream puffs and at reasonable prices. I'm sure when Mom's car had 7K miles on it you didn't worry about the reliability of it and I'm sure when it had 7K miles it was more than a year old. This car still has the remainder of the factory warranty on it so this should be a no brainer. I remember when I was growing up you only bought used cars and most of them were private party sales with no warranty and that didn't scare you. Cars today are a lot more reliable than back in the 70's and 80's. How could it hurt for you to go look at it ?" He didn't have to remind me of that because I was already thinking the same thing.

I guess you can say 'the rest is history'. And I didn't do the lunch thingy either.

FWIW, I just thought of this, the new car dealer is in Hollidaysburg PA which might be the Subie dealer that @venture deals with.

jmonroe

That is the dealer I do business with. I look at a good size radius, but they always seem to see things my way eventually. No sandwiches either.

driver100

We left the movie theater and I had the top down on my 2008 328 hardtop convertible. As we drove along romantic Lakeshore Blvd I had a huge bird, must have been the size of Rodan, did a huge splat on my windshield. If he had flown one foot further toward the interior we would have been hit!

Ever since then, I was always hesitant to drive with the roof down.

snakeweasel

oldfarmer50 said:

ab348 said:

Michaell said:

What price convenience? @jmonroe1 is just drinking from the fountain of youth, since the no haggle thing is very millennial.

I thought JM lived for the haggle, so I was surprised by his affinity for a no-haggle dealer, a concept that I have always believed works for the dealer but not so much for the buyer. I remember the tales of him sitting down across the desk from the salesperson, unpacking his lunch, and settling in for a long but ultimately productive grind. Reading his story this time was akin to your favorite athlete signing a free agent contract with the former teams most hated rival.

I think that was Snakeweasel.

Nope not me, I've always said that negotiating a cars price shouldn't take a long time. If we cant come to an agreement after a few rounds it's time to give up and move on.

imidazol97

snakeweasel said:

Nope not me, I've always said that negotiating a cars price shouldn't take a long time. If we cant come to an agreement after a few rounds it's time to give up and move on.

GG has the technique. Just go in with a price, a fair price in your own mind worked out on a spreadsheet. They take it or they don't. They know where to find you if they change their mind about taking it before you find another store that will work with your price.

jmonroe1

ronsteve said:

jmonroe1 said: hi

stickguy said:

I hate birds. Had to wash my car yesterday. stopped at Shop Rite to restock the pantry, and came out to find bird poop in multiple spots. And I don't even park under trees! Very depressing, but at least it was nice and warm enough to get it clean in the driveway.

Me too.

Just last night when we were leaving the restaurant after celebrating Grandson #2's birthday, we were heading to our house for dessert (Mrs. j picked up an apple pie that he likes), he and his younger brother wanted to ride over in Mrs. j's new Subie, when Son #1 pointed to the windshield that got bombed by a bird. He said, "at least it was a nice bird. Most of them just bomb the car in multiple places". Like that was supposed to make me feel good. :@

jmonroe

I was driving on a bridge across the Intracoastal Waterway in the Volvo some years ago when a couple of pelicans unloaded. Needless to say there was a car wash stop on the way home, immediately after that run. And I was never so happy that I didn't open the sunroof that day. Especially knowing that the weather was nice enough to consider it. 

WOW, it that ain't enough to put the fear of moonroof gods in you, I don't know what is.

jmonroe

oldfarmer50

Explain this to me. Video supposedly shows Tesla autopilot taking control to avoid accidents. Does it really do this?

https://youtu.be/tjjdXjhT2g4

ab348

Those Teslas must be very dangerous vehicles judging from the number of accidents that happen in their vicinity.

imidazol97

Somehow when something is "too good to be true," it usually is. Aren't there several clips of
Teslas getting into accidents?

I like the one in the clips where "the autopilot isn't even on--it just overrides the driver."

Sounds like a 737 Max 8?

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

Explain this to me. Video supposedly shows Tesla autopilot taking control to avoid accidents. Does it really do this?

Looks like an average day of driving in Florida......I see those things happen all the time.
The one at 3 minutes is very common, dope misses his exit, slows down to pull off and causes an accident.
IMHO....they will perfect self driving cars one day, I wouldn't trust them yet.

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Explain this to me. Video supposedly shows Tesla autopilot taking control to avoid accidents. Does it really do this?

Looks like an average day of driving in Florida......I see those things happen all the time.
The one at 3 minutes is very common, dope misses his exit, slows down to pull off and causes an accident.
IMHO....they will perfect self driving cars one day, I wouldn't trust them yet.

Average day in NY too. Yesterday I was on I87 passing a slower tractor trailer. I was doing over the limit but that wasn’t enough for the pick up truck who flew up at high speed and parked a few feet from my bumper. When I was past the TT and didn’t cut in quick enough (cut off the big truck) he started beeping his horn. Guess I forgot who owned the road.

I should note that I briefly toyed with the idea of slowing down and blocking him or even brake checking and causing him to rear end me but I decided to be the mature one instead.

graphicguy

jameschris said:

hi i am new here

Welcome.....pay no mind to the cranky old dudes in here. They’re a little feisty before they’ve had their morning prune juice. . (J/k)!

graphicguy

imidazol97 said:

snakeweasel said:

Nope not me, I've always said that negotiating a cars price shouldn't take a long time. If we cant come to an agreement after a few rounds it's time to give up and move on.

GG has the technique. Just go in with a price, a fair price in your own mind worked out on a spreadsheet. They take it or they don't. They know where to find you if they change their mind about taking it before you find another store that will work with your price.

Not willing to spend an afternoon trying to buy a car.

It’s pretty easy these days to find the car you want on line. Look at the dealers’ stock situation on the car you want. Determine what you want to pay. That’s the number.

No F&I games of “you forgot to include doc fees and or mop and glo to your number”.

Nope...my price + taxes + license fees....that’s the price. Having it printed out on paper (like a spreadsheet) makes it easier and more understandable on my end. How they divy it up on their paperwork is up to them.

Should be less than an hour drive over the curb in a new car. Find the car, test drive the car, make the offer and explain it’s the only offer you’ll make....”yes” by the dealer and you’ve bought the car. “No” by the dealer, just move on to another dealer.


Haven’t seen a “4 Square” in a while. But, if dealer starts with that, I can tell I’m not buying a car from them, and let them know that.

I know sales people make money on the margin dollars they hold on a car, but I’m of the mind that the bigger money for them are the bonuses they get on unit sales. As such, I’m more than willing to have them move a unit quickly so they can get to their next “up”.

Seasoned sales people seem to understand how I buy a car rather than the “newbies”, who seem to need to stick to their sales script.

I don’t get frustrated. I don’t spend hours playing the “if we do, will you do”? Q&A. I explain my offer. The rest is just accept it, or reject it.

I personally can’t understand how someone can walk into a dealership and not know the amount of money coming out of their wallet for a car before opening the door. Yet, they do.

A few years ago there was this alleged “expert” over in the Accord threads who purported to be able to pay the least amount for the new Accords. His was the method of calling and/or emailing lots of dealers asking them for their best price. Then, going to the dealership to close the deal, only to find many times he was low-balled by the dealers just to get him in the door. Or, having dealers refuse to give him a price in an email. Then, going to the dealer to grind out a price.

I pinged him a couple of times about still not knowing what he was going to pay (after doc fees, “mop and glo” add-on, etc). He was adamant that his “grinding” method was the best way to buy a car. He had no clue as to the final amount of money coming out of his pocket, even after spending hours upon hours going to different dealerships, emailing, calling. I don’t remember his name or if he still posts over there.

graphicguy

Interesting seeing those videos of what I presume is a Tesla avoiding accidents.

My TLX is the first car I’ve had with all the “safety suite” nannies. While not nearly as comprehensive as on a Tesla, and only “autonomous” for 30 seconds or so (where the car drives itself), it has saved me from a couple of accidents.

At first, I thought it was intrusive.....”how dare a computer try to tell me how to drive my car”. On 2nd thought, I’ll allow some of that in order to not have an accident....or worse, be injured in an accident.

snakeweasel

graphicguy said:

hi i am new here

Welcome.....pay no mind to the cranky old dudes in here. They’re a little feisty before they’ve had their morning prune juice. . (J/k)!

"Cranky old dudes"? I resemble that remark!

Michaell

@graphicguy - one small problem with your strategy.

On both the Countryman and Outback purchases, we identified the unit we wanted via the dealer web page.

In both cases, the units were "in transit" and weren't scheduled to arrive at the dealer for a couple of weeks (the MINI was shipped to CO from the port in CA, and the Subaru had to be trucked to the dealer from the factory in Indiana). We put a refundable deposit down to 'hold' the vehicle, and negotiated when they arrived.

The MINI is a one-price dealer, so a take it or leave it attitude from them (but, no doc fee, which saves about $500). I had all my research in place for the Outback, so we only went back and forth twice (once on the Outback price, once on the trade value - thank you, CarMax!).

Relatively painless, both times.

snakeweasel

graphicguy said:

Nope not me, I've always said that negotiating a cars price shouldn't take a long time. If we cant come to an agreement after a few rounds it's time to give up and move on.

GG has the technique. Just go in with a price, a fair price in your own mind worked out on a spreadsheet. They take it or they don't. They know where to find you if they change their mind about taking it before you find another store that will work with your price.

Not willing to spend an afternoon trying to buy a car. It’s pretty easy these days to find the car you want on line. Look at the dealers’ stock situation on the car you want. Determine what you want to pay. That’s the number. No F&I games of “you forgot to include doc fees and or mop and glo to your number”. Nope...my price + taxes + license fees....that’s the price. Having it printed out on paper (like a spreadsheet) makes it easier and more understandable on my end. How they divy it up on their paperwork is up to them. Should be less than an hour drive over the curb in a new car. Find the car, test drive the car, make the offer and explain it’s the only offer you’ll make....”yes” by the dealer and you’ve bought the car. “No” by the dealer, just move on to another dealer. Haven’t seen a “4 Square” in a while. But, if dealer starts with that, I can tell I’m not buying a car from them, and let them know that. I know sales people make money on the margin dollars they hold on a car, but I’m of the mind that the bigger money for them are the bonuses they get on unit sales. As such, I’m more than willing to have them move a unit quickly so they can get to their next “up”. Seasoned sales people seem to understand how I buy a car rather than the “newbies”, who seem to need to stick to their sales script. I don’t get frustrated. I don’t spend hours playing the “if we do, will you do”? Q&A. I explain my offer. The rest is just accept it, or reject it. I personally can’t understand how someone can walk into a dealership and not know the amount of money coming out of their wallet for a car before opening the door. Yet, they do. A few years ago there was this alleged “expert” over in the Accord threads who purported to be able to pay the least amount for the new Accords. His was the method of calling and/or emailing lots of dealers asking them for their best price. Then, going to the dealership to close the deal, only to find many times he was low-balled by the dealers just to get him in the door. Or, having dealers refuse to give him a price in an email. Then, going to the dealer to grind out a price. I pinged him a couple of times about still not knowing what he was going to pay (after doc fees, “mop and glo” add-on, etc). He was adamant that his “grinding” method was the best way to buy a car. He had no clue as to the final amount of money coming out of his pocket, even after spending hours upon hours going to different dealerships, emailing, calling. I don’t remember his name or if he still posts over there.

on my wifes car I think we went back and forth 3 times, took maybe 20 minutes or so. It was a service loaner that we were trying to get them to price as a used car. I do believe we got a decent deal as it was slightly less than other dealers were listing the same car with similar miles as used cars.

With my car it was really fast. They had a sticker price on it that my research showed it on the low end but not the lowest among comparable offers at other dealers. However this dealers website inventory had it for over 3 grand cheaper. We went there knowing that if there was nothing wrong with the car and they honored the website price the car was sold. 

stickguy

It also depends if your goal is to get a car you really want, for a good price. Or, to hold out for the deal of the century (even if you have to compromise on something to get there).

I’m at the point know where basic research leads to the good deal range, and I would rather not kill myself and make life difficult to shave a few more bucks off.

fintail

Some of those Tesla clips aren't even in a Tesla.

My latest car has semi-autonomous functions, which can be fun and quirky. The car usually just chides me to put my hands back on the wheel, watch out for the slowing car ahead, don't stray from the lane marker in high speed turns, etc. The radar cruise is still a little unnerving, and I deactivated the feature where it adapts to speed limit changes, as school zones were throwing it off. It is fun to crack my knuckles while the car steers itself around a curve.

Regarding buying a car, it always takes some time for me, just to find something in the spec I want - I get really picky about options and colors, with some being dealbreakers. Then comes the dealing, with my first offer being a lowball just to see what happens.

oldfarmer50

graphicguy said:

imidazol97 said:

snakeweasel said:

Nope not me, I've always said that negotiating a cars price shouldn't take a long time. If we cant come to an agreement after a few rounds it's time to give up and move on.

GG has the technique. Just go in with a price, a fair price in your own mind worked out on a spreadsheet. They take it or they don't. They know where to find you if they change their mind about taking it before you find another store that will work with your price.

Not willing to spend an afternoon trying to buy a car.

It’s pretty easy these days to find the car you want on line. Look at the dealers’ stock situation on the car you want. Determine what you want to pay. That’s the number.

No F&I games of “you forgot to include doc fees and or mop and glo to your number”.

Nope...my price + taxes + license fees....that’s the price. Having it printed out on paper (like a spreadsheet) makes it easier and more understandable on my end. How they divy it up on their paperwork is up to them.

Should be less than an hour drive over the curb in a new car. Find the car, test drive the car, make the offer and explain it’s the only offer you’ll make....”yes” by the dealer and you’ve bought the car. “No” by the dealer, just move on to another dealer.


Haven’t seen a “4 Square” in a while. But, if dealer starts with that, I can tell I’m not buying a car from them, and let them know that.

I know sales people make money on the margin dollars they hold on a car, but I’m of the mind that the bigger money for them are the bonuses they get on unit sales. As such, I’m more than willing to have them move a unit quickly so they can get to their next “up”.

Seasoned sales people seem to understand how I buy a car rather than the “newbies”, who seem to need to stick to their sales script.

I don’t get frustrated. I don’t spend hours playing the “if we do, will you do”? Q&A. I explain my offer. The rest is just accept it, or reject it.

I personally can’t understand how someone can walk into a dealership and not know the amount of money coming out of their wallet for a car before opening the door. Yet, they do.

A few years ago there was this alleged “expert” over in the Accord threads who purported to be able to pay the least amount for the new Accords. His was the method of calling and/or emailing lots of dealers asking them for their best price. Then, going to the dealership to close the deal, only to find many times he was low-balled by the dealers just to get him in the door. Or, having dealers refuse to give him a price in an email. Then, going to the dealer to grind out a price.

I pinged him a couple of times about still not knowing what he was going to pay (after doc fees, “mop and glo” add-on, etc). He was adamant that his “grinding” method was the best way to buy a car. He had no clue as to the final amount of money coming out of his pocket, even after spending hours upon hours going to different dealerships, emailing, calling. I don’t remember his name or if he still posts over there.

Was that Bobst?

On my last purchase I did pretty much what you do. I figured the max price I would pay out the door. Just for fun I low balled that by a few hundred and let them bump me up to my predetermined limit. They agreed, I agreed, took 30 minutes.

stickguy

No, bobst never negotiated. Made an offer, if rejected, left and went to next dealer, but upped the offer. That was the part that never made sense to me.

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

It also depends if your goal is to get a car you really want, for a good price. Or, to hold out for the deal of the century (even if you have to compromise on something to get there).

I’m at the point know where basic research leads to the good deal range, and I would rather not kill myself and make life difficult to shave a few more bucks off.

My research included accessibility for my wife and giving her choice of color. I then found several in that style and color so I had options. I did one internet inquiry and to my surprise a dealer in CT actually gave me a good price. He had a $600 doc fee so he went on my backup list. I went to a local dealer, offered a similar price minus the CT doc fee and went home happy. I might have been able to negotiate around the $600 fee but why drive 100 miles to find out.

I think these exorbitant doc fees are costing dealers a lot of business from knowledgeable buyers but as been said many times, most people aren’t knowledgeable.

tjc78

Yeah, Bobst was a character. That’s for sure.

If your numbers make sense (even a skinny deal) most dealers will play ball.

Michaell

oldfarmer50 said:

stickguy said:

It also depends if your goal is to get a car you really want, for a good price. Or, to hold out for the deal of the century (even if you have to compromise on something to get there).

I’m at the point know where basic research leads to the good deal range, and I would rather not kill myself and make life difficult to shave a few more bucks off.

My research included accessibility for my wife and giving her choice of color. I then found several in that style and color so I had options. I did one internet inquiry and to my surprise a dealer in CT actually gave me a good price. He had a $600 doc fee so he went on my backup list. I went to a local dealer, offered a similar price minus the CT doc fee and went home happy. I might have been able to negotiate around the $600 fee but why drive 100 miles to find out.

I think these exorbitant doc fees are costing dealers a lot of business from knowledgeable buyers but as been said many times, most people aren’t knowledgeable.

I would think the CT dealer would have adjusted their price offer, since they have to know NY caps their doc fee at $75.

ruking1

Yes, I think if one wants to see ones’ local dealer’s disappear, don’t do new car sales with local dealers?

Michaell

ruking1 said:

Yes, I think if one wants to see ones’ local dealer’s disappear, don’t do new car sales with local dealers?

I don't think it's our responsibility to keep the local dealers in business - it's the manufacturers that approve the overabundance of dealers for a particular geography.

For example, I have 3 Ford dealers that are within a 20 minute drive of me.

ruking1

Michaell said:

ruking1 said:

Yes, I think if one wants to see ones’ local dealer’s disappear, don’t do new car sales with local dealers?

I don't think it's our responsibility to keep the local dealers in business - it's the manufacturers that approve the overabundance of dealers for a particular geography.

For example, I have 3 Ford dealers that are within a 20 minute drive of me.

Perhaps!? So in that case, would one rather buy out of state? Would one get better (say) FORD dealership service, much farther away?

If one was in charge, would getting rid of up to 3 dealerships in your area be in the cards, because one can buy Fords through COSTCO ?

qbrozen

graphicguy said:

Haven’t seen a “4 Square” in a while. But, if dealer starts with that, I can tell I’m not buying a car from them, and let them know that.

You just reminded me of something I forgot to share.

The first dealer we visited for the wife's BMW was the one closest to us. We didn't even find a car we wanted, but the young sales pup proceeds to pull out a 4-square! I was not holding back. I said "wow! you have to use a 4-square! I haven't seen one of those in a long time, and no way in hell I'd expect it to resurface at a BMW dealer, of all places!" I think he was too young to really understand. He just kind of shrugged and nodded.

ruking1

Yeah, the whole idea really is not to dial out that one can probably get a pretty good to best deal, close by. I’ve actually done that for @ least @ the last 8 cars.

There are a lot of other TMI reasons why it’s good to buy local.

dino001

qbrozen said:

You just reminded me of something I forgot to share.

The first dealer we visited for the wife's BMW was the one closest to us. We didn't even find a car we wanted, but the young sales pup proceeds to pull out a 4-square! I was not holding back. I said "wow! you have to use a 4-square! I haven't seen one of those in a long time, and no way in hell I'd expect it to resurface at a BMW dealer, of all places!" I think he was too young to really understand. He just kind of shrugged and nodded.

I think "four square" may have a gotten a bad rap because of poor disclosures. As an idea of breaking the transaction into four easy to follow pieces (trade, price, downpayment, monthly payment), is not a bad thing and can help the customer to understand all the pieces, if done right. The problem is that the "connections" between those four squares are sometimes obfuscated due to poor disclosures and the dealers tend to write whatever they please.

I wouldn't mind a "four square" guy, as long as all pieces are properly mentioned there, such as interest rate, taxes, fees, etc. There isn't much difference between that and line-by-line approach. The only issue with the whole thing is that it may be an indication that the dealership is an "old school" mindset, i.e. be ready for other tactics from those times.

stickguy

Q, what dealer is near you? Princeton, or is there one down the other way toward the shore? Princeton is actually the same dealer chain as where you purchased.

stickguy

I would rather have a 4 square where everything is broken out, than the slight of hand where they right down one number but avoid telling you how they got to it!

explorerx4

NY has a higher sales tax than CT, so I don't know if that plays into it.
If I bought a car in NY, I think I have to pay the NY sales tax, but since CT is lower they and they credit the amount already paid, they wouldn't charge me.

pensfan83

The Jeep dealer

qbrozen said:

graphicguy said:

Haven’t seen a “4 Square” in a while. But, if dealer starts with that, I can tell I’m not buying a car from them, and let them know that.

You just reminded me of something I forgot to share.

The first dealer we visited for the wife's BMW was the one closest to us. We didn't even find a car we wanted, but the young sales pup proceeds to pull out a 4-square! I was not holding back. I said "wow! you have to use a 4-square! I haven't seen one of those in a long time, and no way in hell I'd expect it to resurface at a BMW dealer, of all places!" I think he was too young to really understand. He just kind of shrugged and nodded.

Wow, even the Jeep dealer didn't pull out the 4 square on us, they just gave a crappy offer haha.

dino001

I remember only one time I had a "four-square" type of experience. Many years ago I came to a Mazda dealer to look into Mazda6. Test drive, OK, then the young man is insisting they put an offer together, to which I said it doesn't matter, not buying yet, but whatever, if it makes you happy, go for it. So they write down couple of numbers without any trade (I think), and then monthly payment of whatever. "Does it look good," the young man asks. "What's the interest rate here? " "I don't know, but does this look good? " "I don't know" - and I left, as I was planning anyway. But if I were buying, I'd be close to leaving at that point, too.

qbrozen

stickguy said:

Q, what dealer is near you? Princeton, or is there one down the other way toward the shore? Princeton is actually the same dealer chain as where you purchased.

Freehold

venture

Michaell said:

@graphicguy - one small problem with your strategy.

On both the Countryman and Outback purchases, we identified the unit we wanted via the dealer web page.

In both cases, the units were "in transit" and weren't scheduled to arrive at the dealer for a couple of weeks (the MINI was shipped to CO from the port in CA, and the Subaru had to be trucked to the dealer from the factory in Indiana). We put a refundable deposit down to 'hold' the vehicle, and negotiated when they arrived.

The MINI is a one-price dealer, so a take it or leave it attitude from them (but, no doc fee, which saves about $500). I had all my research in place for the Outback, so we only went back and forth twice (once on the Outback price, once on the trade value - thank you, CarMax!).

Relatively painless, both times.

I just don't understand the purpose of a refundable deposit. There's no point to it.

ruking1

venture said:

Michaell said:

@graphicguy - one small problem with your strategy.

On both the Countryman and Outback purchases, we identified the unit we wanted via the dealer web page.

In both cases, the units were "in transit" and weren't scheduled to arrive at the dealer for a couple of weeks (the MINI was shipped to CO from the port in CA, and the Subaru had to be trucked to the dealer from the factory in Indiana). We put a refundable deposit down to 'hold' the vehicle, and negotiated when they arrived.

The MINI is a one-price dealer, so a take it or leave it attitude from them (but, no doc fee, which saves about $500). I had all my research in place for the Outback, so we only went back and forth twice (once on the Outback price, once on the trade value - thank you, CarMax!).

Relatively painless, both times.

I just don't understand the purpose of a refundable deposit. There's no point to it.

On that note, I don’t think I’ve ever put a deposit on real estate, let alone a car. I like the deals where one can drive off the lot (to getting delivered) with just a signature.

Yes, that’s why an “out the door price” really does not appeal to me. Just the “doc” fees can be/are 2x to 500 x more/less than a dealer will make for a better negotiated deal.

Michaell

venture said:

Michaell said:

@graphicguy - one small problem with your strategy.

On both the Countryman and Outback purchases, we identified the unit we wanted via the dealer web page.

In both cases, the units were "in transit" and weren't scheduled to arrive at the dealer for a couple of weeks (the MINI was shipped to CO from the port in CA, and the Subaru had to be trucked to the dealer from the factory in Indiana). We put a refundable deposit down to 'hold' the vehicle, and negotiated when they arrived.

The MINI is a one-price dealer, so a take it or leave it attitude from them (but, no doc fee, which saves about $500). I had all my research in place for the Outback, so we only went back and forth twice (once on the Outback price, once on the trade value - thank you, CarMax!).

Relatively painless, both times.

I just don't understand the purpose of a refundable deposit. There's no point to it.

It gave us the "right of first refusal" when the car arrived.

Was deducted from the negotiated price, so also could be considered a down payment, in a way.

stickguy

I used to go to freehold auto mall many moons ago.

Refundable deposit is to get you connected to the car, and required to stay engaged with the dealer.

NY should just charge CT sales tax and register it in that state. Normally you just get a non resident temp tag to get the car home.

Michaell

For the Outback, the wife wanted the Wilderness Green, and that was the only one we could find in Denver.

For the MINI, the daughter wanted a certain set of options, and the one we found (and, eventually, bought), had them. Color was secondary to her, but I'll admit it has grown on me.

ruking1

Michaell said:

For the Outback, the wife wanted the Wilderness Green, and that was the only one we could find in Denver.

For the MINI, the daughter wanted a certain set of options, and the one we found (and, eventually, bought), had them. Color was secondary to her, but I'll admit it has grown on me.

On the other hand, just as long as the customers are...happy!? 🎭

Michaell

ruking1 said:

Michaell said:

For the Outback, the wife wanted the Wilderness Green, and that was the only one we could find in Denver.

For the MINI, the daughter wanted a certain set of options, and the one we found (and, eventually, bought), had them. Color was secondary to her, but I'll admit it has grown on me.

On the other hand, just as long as the customers are...happy!? 🎭

Both my wife and stepdaughter are pleased with their choices.

MINI has 38,000 in 5 years, with very little problems.

The Outback is 4 years old with 31,000 miles, and, with the exception of a couple of recall issues, has been hassle free.

ruking1

Michaell said:

For the Outback, the wife wanted the Wilderness Green, and that was the only one we could find in Denver.

For the MINI, the daughter wanted a certain set of options, and the one we found (and, eventually, bought), had them. Color was secondary to her, but I'll admit it has grown on me.

The real great frontier is that almost anything from anywhere in the country is available by a local dealers’ website. While a local dealer would love to sell it’s on hand inventory, they can get a line on almost anything. The real utility of using a local dealer is local business; that local interaction with closeness and the fact that one keeps those dollars, tax & otherwise, locally (in the neighborhood) . Planning purposes = 8 to 1 multiplier effects. So whether it is up to the OEM to locate the dealerships wherever, is it better for one to have ones’ tax dollars locally or is it better going to somewhere else?

driver100

I was wondering maybe the 4 square guy graduated from one of those schools that teach selling cars. I wonder how those graduates work out.
MIKE.....any ideas about sales grads?

explorerx4

I've had the salesperson use the 4 square several times over the last few years.

driver100

GG....were you asking about laser eye surgery?
I heard a story on the news a few days later about this weather lady who had the surgery and the results were so bad she committed suicide. It doesn't happen often, but, there is a risk. She had a slightly different procedure done called LASIK Smile surgery.
FOX NEWS METEOROLIGIST
I had mine done over 20 years ago and so far so good.

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

It also depends if your goal is to get a car you really want, for a good price. Or, to hold out for the deal of the century (even if you have to compromise on something to get there).

I’m at the point know where basic research leads to the good deal range, and I would rather not kill myself and make life difficult to shave a few more bucks off.

My buddy went to look at a used Mustang in the middle of winter. He offered $11k off their asking price. They broomed him out pretty fast even though he upped his offer by a thousand. It just sold yesterday to someone else. Don’t know what they settled for but they had to store it for an extra 4 months and I assume pay floor plan costs.

Assuming a 30% markup on a used car that was listed at $34k I’d say anything more than $9k off would have been a money loser. He didn’t really like the color so I think he swung for the fence and missed.

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

No, bobst never negotiated. Made an offer, if rejected, left and went to next dealer, but upped the offer. That was the part that never made sense to me.

I thought Bobst made the same offer to every dealer and if he got nowhere he then started over and bumped his offer a hundred or two and if rejected made the rounds again. He kept that up until one dealer accepted. Seemed like a lot of time was required.

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

I would rather have a 4 square where everything is broken out, than the slight of hand where they right down one number but avoid telling you how they got to it!

In a case like that just ask for an out the door quote and write the check for that amount. Doesn’t matter if the car cost $1 and the doc fee was $30,000. If at delivery they start some nonsense about “that price doesn’t include insurance from alien invasion” you head for the door.

oldfarmer50

explorerx4 said:

NY has a higher sales tax than CT, so I don't know if that plays into it.
If I bought a car in NY, I think I have to pay the NY sales tax, but since CT is lower they and they credit the amount already paid, they wouldn't charge me.

NY sales tax is charged according to where the buyer resides not where the purchase was made. Even if I went to Korea to get my car NYS would still come looking for their 8%.

There’s even a line on the NYS tax forms for you to pay sales tax on everything you bought while vacationing out of state. I think I mentioned once that they used to position sales tax agents in NJ shopping malls to take pictures of cars with NY plates so they could send the owners threatening letters demanding tax payment.