Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Did you get a great deal? Let us know in the Values & Prices Paid section!
Meet your fellow owners in our Owners Clubs

Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations

1201220132015201720182111

Comments

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 24,240
    driver100 said:


    I was thinking....remember when Cadillac moved to New York so staff would get more inspiration? I wonder how that worked out? I think our C&C gang knew how that was going to go.

    They were inspired. Inspired to move back to Detroit.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Posts: 14,372
    driver100 said:


    So you'er saying Crown Victoria and Grand Marquis aren't coming back soon?
    .

    Funny thing, I have a Criminal Mischief case where one known criminal left his supposedly pristine 2002 Grand Marquis at a house occupied by a couple of known criminals while he served a prison term. Surprise, surprise, after he served his time he went back to retrieve it and he found it stripped and vandalized- with no credible witnesses to the carnage. The "victim" and his mom want $5,000 restitution. I checked values and it might be worth that- if it had at least $2,500 cash in the glove box.
    I'm certainly not going too waste a lot of time on the case; if the two perps will kick in $1,000 restitution each I'm giving them five years probated.
    But with no witnesses as to what happened how can you find them responsible? Was a bailment created by them agreeing to let it be parked at the house?

    As to value:

    https://www.listingallcars.com/vdp/6505658457928602245/Used-2002-Mercury-Grand-Marquis-GS-for-sale-in-Philadelphia-PA-19116-by-Damar-Cars
    On Hot Bench the "suspected criminals" would get off unless their was direct evidence they were the ones who vandalized the car....or substantial circumstantial evidence.
    *Just saw a flash, there are potential witnesses - that changes things.

    Oldfarmer, the 2002 model though the ask is $7000, only has 27000 miles on it. Sounds like quite a find, I'd like to know the story behind that car - mainly why is the mileage so low.
    That one is really unusual but I’ve see some 10+ year old GMs listed with under 50k miles.

    I guess grandma didn’t drive much.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2004 Chevy Van, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 24,240
    driver100 said:


    I was thinking....remember when Cadillac moved to New York so staff would get more inspiration? I wonder how that worked out? I think our C&C gang knew how that was going to go.

    They were inspired. Inspired to move back to Detroit.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoPosts: 140,549
    driver100 said:

    ab348 said:

    driver100 said:


    Good idea, us older drivers get all those letters and numbers mixed up.
    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

    So, you're saying you own 3 vehicles but you have no idea of what models they are?
    :p
    lol........but I go in and buy them because I like them.....the numbers and letters don't do a lot for me. At least MB, BMW, Audi keep the numbers and letters about the same. A in MB is small, C larger, E larger and S larger still. Cadillac and Lincoln keep changing the numbers and letters and there is no rhyme or reason to their meaning.

    I was thinking....remember when Cadillac moved to New York so staff would get more inspiration? I wonder how that worked out? I think our C&C gang knew how that was going to go.
    Is the CLA bigger or smaller than the A? CLS bigger or smaller than the S?

    I think the new GLB is smaller than the GLA, which makes no sense to me.

    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and let us know! Post a pic of your new purchase or lease!


    MODERATOR

    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4

  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaPosts: 12,039
    Like many large organizations (I used to work for one) they are not very good dealing with small-volume specialty items. Cadillac falls into that category in the GM world. If they had given it some time and not interfered so much it might have led to a different outcome.

    Johan told a story in an interview post-departure about the challenges of trying to get GM to build vehicles to the same standards for things like panel gaps and interior materials as the brands he was trying to compete with. They kept telling him that what they were turning out met GM's standards so why wasn't that good enough? They have a hard time getting their heads around that sort of thing.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6, 1968 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Holiday Coupe

  • jmonroejmonroe Pittsburgh areaPosts: 8,898

    Looks like i'm going to keep my new car a secret until the kids get home to visit at the end of the week.
    Over Thanksgiving one of them asked me how many miles I had on my Fusion, so I finessed the truth by stating.
    'Last time I looked it had less than 22k on it'.
    It had been gone for a month and a half, by that point :)

    C'mon man, whatever happened to "Truth in Parenting" ? :o

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 35,841

    driver100 said:


    So you'er saying Crown Victoria and Grand Marquis aren't coming back soon?
    .

    Funny thing, I have a Criminal Mischief case where one known criminal left his supposedly pristine 2002 Grand Marquis at a house occupied by a couple of known criminals while he served a prison term. Surprise, surprise, after he served his time he went back to retrieve it and he found it stripped and vandalized- with no credible witnesses to the carnage. The "victim" and his mom want $5,000 restitution. I checked values and it might be worth that- if it had at least $2,500 cash in the glove box.
    I'm certainly not going too waste a lot of time on the case; if the two perps will kick in $1,000 restitution each I'm giving them five years probated.
    But with no witnesses as to what happened how can you find them responsible? Was a bailment created by them agreeing to let it be parked at the house?

    As to value:

    https://www.listingallcars.com/vdp/6505658457928602245/Used-2002-Mercury-Grand-Marquis-GS-for-sale-in-Philadelphia-PA-19116-by-Damar-Cars
    On Hot Bench the "suspected criminals" would get off unless their was direct evidence they were the ones who vandalized the car....or substantial circumstantial evidence.
    *Just saw a flash, there are potential witnesses - that changes things.

    Oldfarmer, the 2002 model though the ask is $7000, only has 27000 miles on it. Sounds like quite a find, I'd like to know the story behind that car - mainly why is the mileage so low.
    That one is really unusual but I’ve see some 10+ year old GMs listed with under 50k miles.

    I guess grandma didn’t drive much.
    interesting carfax. lots of miles early, then from 2008-2016 a total of about 4,000. That sucker must have sat, a lot.

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD (wife's)

  • jmonroejmonroe Pittsburgh areaPosts: 8,898
    driver100 said:


    So you'er saying Crown Victoria and Grand Marquis aren't coming back soon?
    .

    Funny thing, I have a Criminal Mischief case where one known criminal left his supposedly pristine 2002 Grand Marquis at a house occupied by a couple of known criminals while he served a prison term. Surprise, surprise, after he served his time he went back to retrieve it and he found it stripped and vandalized- with no credible witnesses to the carnage. The "victim" and his mom want $5,000 restitution. I checked values and it might be worth that- if it had at least $2,500 cash in the glove box.
    I'm certainly not going too waste a lot of time on the case; if the two perps will kick in $1,000 restitution each I'm giving them five years probated.
    But with no witnesses as to what happened how can you find them responsible? Was a bailment created by them agreeing to let it be parked at the house?

    As to value:

    https://www.listingallcars.com/vdp/6505658457928602245/Used-2002-Mercury-Grand-Marquis-GS-for-sale-in-Philadelphia-PA-19116-by-Damar-Cars
    On Hot Bench the "suspected criminals" would get off unless their was direct evidence they were the ones who vandalized the car....or substantial circumstantial evidence.
    *Just saw a flash, there are potential witnesses - that changes things.

    Oldfarmer, the 2002 model though the ask is $7000, only has 27000 miles on it. Sounds like quite a find, I'd like to know the story behind that car - mainly why is the mileage so low.
    Hint: Ask them how many times it rolled over.

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 27,031
    Don’t think I mentioned it, but after months of searching, my father-in-law traded his 2004 MGM with 148k for a 2008 with 35k.

    '19 Ioniq plug-in, '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '18 BMW X2. 50-car history and counting!

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 14,223
    @jmonroe,
    It was the truth, I just neglected to add any further details. :)
    2019 Lincoln MKZ Reserve 1, 2017 Ford F-150 Limited
  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 26,153
    Michaell said:

    driver100 said:

    ab348 said:

    driver100 said:


    Good idea, us older drivers get all those letters and numbers mixed up.
    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

    So, you're saying you own 3 vehicles but you have no idea of what models they are?
    :p
    lol........but I go in and buy them because I like them.....the numbers and letters don't do a lot for me. At least MB, BMW, Audi keep the numbers and letters about the same. A in MB is small, C larger, E larger and S larger still. Cadillac and Lincoln keep changing the numbers and letters and there is no rhyme or reason to their meaning.

    I was thinking....remember when Cadillac moved to New York so staff would get more inspiration? I wonder how that worked out? I think our C&C gang knew how that was going to go.
    Is the CLA bigger or smaller than the A? CLS bigger or smaller than the S?

    I think the new GLB is smaller than the GLA, which makes no sense to me.
    Where's Mike when we need him. You probably need a salesman to straighten those out. Generally speaking, they kind of get bigger the further along in the alphabet. :s

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 26,153

    @jmonroe,
    It was the truth, I just neglected to add any further details. :)

    The best policy is to always tell the truth. Leaving out by omission is better than being untruthful (to use the nicer word), but, not by much. ;)

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • jmonroejmonroe Pittsburgh areaPosts: 8,898

    @jmonroe,
    It was the truth, I just neglected to add any further details. :)

    Only parents who are lawyers are entitled to plead like that. :@

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • abacomikeabacomike South FloridaPosts: 10,777
    driver100 said:

    Michaell said:

    driver100 said:

    ab348 said:

    driver100 said:


    Good idea, us older drivers get all those letters and numbers mixed up.
    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

    So, you're saying you own 3 vehicles but you have no idea of what models they are?
    :p
    lol........but I go in and buy them because I like them.....the numbers and letters don't do a lot for me. At least MB, BMW, Audi keep the numbers and letters about the same. A in MB is small, C larger, E larger and S larger still. Cadillac and Lincoln keep changing the numbers and letters and there is no rhyme or reason to their meaning.

    I was thinking....remember when Cadillac moved to New York so staff would get more inspiration? I wonder how that worked out? I think our C&C gang knew how that was going to go.
    Is the CLA bigger or smaller than the A? CLS bigger or smaller than the S?

    I think the new GLB is smaller than the GLA, which makes no sense to me.
    Where's Mike when we need him. You probably need a salesman to straighten those out. Generally speaking, they kind of get bigger the further along in the alphabet. :s
    CLA is bigger than the A
    CLS is smaller than the S

    2018 Mercedes S450

  • abacomikeabacomike South FloridaPosts: 10,777
    CLS is a kind of hybrid vehicle - only one body style - different engine options.

    2018 Mercedes S450

  • fintailfintail Posts: 49,491
    CLA is A-based, where the CLS is the odd hybrid, being E-based. CLS is also a case of MB hitting it out of the park with a new niche later embraced by BMW and Audi. The original was a significant design and has aged well, ~15 years after introduction and it doesn't look old. Not really my fave though, short windows limit visibility too much for me.

    MB doesn't get total credit for the "4 door coupe" ideal though, I think that goes to the Rover P5B Coupe that debuted around 1962. It was even badged "Coupe" although it has 4 doors.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 8,011
    edited December 2019
    Michaell said:

    houdini1 said:

    bwia said:

    This is the day that the Lord has made; let us rejoice and be glad in it.

    Well folks, I am in the Caribbean sitting on my veranda having my coffee and freshly hand-picked papaya fruit.
    It is currently 85 degrees, blue skies and a slight breeze. The beautifully colored birds are chirping as if choreographed by nature. Such good living might drive a man to boozing and wenching, but I can try even if my wife wouldn't let me.

    That beats 7 in. of continuing snow and about 24 degrees...but The Chiefs beat Denver !!
    I don't want to hear about that.

    :disappointed:
    LOL. I have hopes for your new QB though. Maybe that is because he is from KC area.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 5,638
    edited December 2019
    fintail said:

    CLA is A-based, where the CLS is the odd hybrid, being E-based. CLS is also a case of MB hitting it out of the park with a new niche later embraced by BMW and Audi. The original was a significant design and has aged well, ~15 years after introduction and it doesn't look old. Not really my fave though, short windows limit visibility too much for me.

    MB doesn't get total credit for the "4 door coupe" ideal though, I think that goes to the Rover P5B Coupe that debuted around 1962. It was even badged "Coupe" although it has 4 doors.

    There were other cars before that that may not have been badged "four door coupe", but certainly looked like them. Citroen DS, started in 1955 with the sloped back. They called them later "fastback". This was probably most interesting design EVER. It was also very innovative, lots of new stuff that others copied later. Of course it was also prone to break down, especially those hydraulic systems. Anyway, I used to have soft spot for Citroens, even if they looked weird (and they sometimes really did). These were times when the French stylists and industrial designers had no fear. It's a shame how generic Citroen became these days under PSA.




    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 26,153
    dino001 said:

    fintail said:

    CLA is A-based, where the CLS is the odd hybrid, being E-based. CLS is also a case of MB hitting it out of the park with a new niche later embraced by BMW and Audi. The original was a significant design and has aged well, ~15 years after introduction and it doesn't look old. Not really my fave though, short windows limit visibility too much for me.

    MB doesn't get total credit for the "4 door coupe" ideal though, I think that goes to the Rover P5B Coupe that debuted around 1962. It was even badged "Coupe" although it has 4 doors.

    There were other cars before that that may not have been badged "four door coupe", but certainly looked like them. Citroen DS, started in 1955 with the sloped back. They called them later "fastback". This was probably most interesting design EVER. It was also very innovative, lots of new stuff that others copied later. Of course it was also prone to break down, especially those hydraulic systems. Anyway, I used to have soft spot for Citroens, even if they looked weird (and the sometimes really did). These were times when the French stylists and industrial designers had no fear. It's a shame how generic Citroen became these days under PSA.



    Those early Citroens were a bit off the charts ugly, but they kind of refined the look, and improved on it by 1985.

    At least it is unique, you won't mistake it for something else.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 26,153
    abacomike said:

    driver100 said:

    Michaell said:

    driver100 said:

    ab348 said:

    driver100 said:


    Good idea, us older drivers get all those letters and numbers mixed up.
    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

    So, you're saying you own 3 vehicles but you have no idea of what models they are?
    :p
    lol........but I go in and buy them because I like them.....the numbers and letters don't do a lot for me. At least MB, BMW, Audi keep the numbers and letters about the same. A in MB is small, C larger, E larger and S larger still. Cadillac and Lincoln keep changing the numbers and letters and there is no rhyme or reason to their meaning.

    I was thinking....remember when Cadillac moved to New York so staff would get more inspiration? I wonder how that worked out? I think our C&C gang knew how that was going to go.
    Is the CLA bigger or smaller than the A? CLS bigger or smaller than the S?

    I think the new GLB is smaller than the GLA, which makes no sense to me.
    Where's Mike when we need him. You probably need a salesman to straighten those out. Generally speaking, they kind of get bigger the further along in the alphabet. :s
    CLA is bigger than the A
    CLS is smaller than the S
    Thanks for the clarification Mike. What is happening with the eye surgery?

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 5,638
    edited December 2019
    driver100 said:

    dino001 said:

    fintail said:

    CLA is A-based, where the CLS is the odd hybrid, being E-based. CLS is also a case of MB hitting it out of the park with a new niche later embraced by BMW and Audi. The original was a significant design and has aged well, ~15 years after introduction and it doesn't look old. Not really my fave though, short windows limit visibility too much for me.

    MB doesn't get total credit for the "4 door coupe" ideal though, I think that goes to the Rover P5B Coupe that debuted around 1962. It was even badged "Coupe" although it has 4 doors.

    There were other cars before that that may not have been badged "four door coupe", but certainly looked like them. Citroen DS, started in 1955 with the sloped back. They called them later "fastback". This was probably most interesting design EVER. It was also very innovative, lots of new stuff that others copied later. Of course it was also prone to break down, especially those hydraulic systems. Anyway, I used to have soft spot for Citroens, even if they looked weird (and the sometimes really did). These were times when the French stylists and industrial designers had no fear. It's a shame how generic Citroen became these days under PSA.



    Those early Citroens were a bit off the charts ugly, but they kind of refined the look, and improved on it by 1985.

    At least it is unique, you won't mistake it for something else.
    I like the old "ugly" ones. They had real character. Remember, it was 1955, when they introduced them, the design was off the charts futuristic in those times. Just compare it with any other model from those times. European (round bulgy shapes), or American (enormous barges with fin tales). It admittedly did not age as well as some other designs, which can be called "timeless", but it was definitely evocative. The technology those cars had during that time rivaled anybody in the business. Too bad it didn't work out for them at the end and they had to be bought out (saved) by Peugeot in 1974. From there it became "corporate", although still kept some character till '90s. Now it's just a clone of its Peugeot brother with very little originality.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 5,638
    edited December 2019
    New Citroen and Peugeot below. The choice is give me the cheaper one or one with better equipment, depending what you desire. They may as well be Buick, Toyota, Opel, or Hyundai. Will do the job, but you'll blend perfectly. Some people want that. But it's not just styling - technology is basically same stuff everybody else gets as a given price point, no more, no less.




    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 35,841
    The French copy nobody, and nobody copies the French?

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD (wife's)

  • graphicguygraphicguy Edmunds Poster EmeritusPosts: 11,848
    I go to a couple of the local car shows and see a funky Citroen on display. I think it was from the 70s?

    Weird looking vehicle. Apparently, at one point, those were sold in North American, too.
    2018 Acura TLX 3.5 SH AWD A-SPEC
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 27,031
    stickguy said:

    The French copy nobody, and nobody copies the French?

    I'm not so sure about that ....




    '19 Ioniq plug-in, '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '18 BMW X2. 50-car history and counting!

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 5,638
    edited December 2019

    I go to a couple of the local car shows and see a funky Citroen on display. I think it was from the 70s?

    Weird looking vehicle. Apparently, at one point, those were sold in North American, too.

    Yes, apparently it was treated here as an incarnation of Ripley's believe or not. Expensive (positioned in premium sedan segment by pricing), yet had only four cylinder engine, manual transmission and no AC or power windows, at least the early versions. One thing that was really cool, the driver could manually change ground clearance from 6.3" to 11".

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaPosts: 12,039
    I always liked how different Citroens were. There were a few in town when I was growing up so I guess we had a dealer though I don't recall that. Back then I'd never want to own one of course. The modern day ones look quite attractive but I gather from watching too many episodes of old Top Gear that they are a cheaper, less heavily equipped, and softer-riding alternative to the companion Peugeot model.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6, 1968 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Holiday Coupe

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 35,841
    Friends of my family had one back in the late 60s to mid 70s. Wife had some mobility issue (MS?) and it was easier for getting in or driving. Some reason like that.

    Odd sighting in those days. Made our Volvo look mainstream!

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD (wife's)

  • omarmanomarman Posts: 2,074
    stickguy said:

    The French copy nobody, and nobody copies the French?

    I always heard that "the French hate everybody but that's just part of being French." :smile:

    I too liked the way Citroen was different.

    A total of 250,000 light bulbs and 600 kilometres of electric cable were used to make the 30 metre high letters.

    It was recorded in the Guinness Book of Records as the world’s largest advertisement. The illuminations were so bright that Charles Lindbergh used the tower as a beacon when coming into land after his solo flight across the Atlantic.

    The sign remained in place until the company went bankrupt in 1934 (perhaps because of its high electricity bills). The company was saved a month later by Michelin at the request of the French government – Michelin was Citroën’s biggest creditor. Pierre Michelin replaced André Citroën as Chairman.

    Click edit profile. Click Signature Settings. Type your vehicles in Signatures box. Click Save.
  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 26,153
    I got a call from the salesman with the 2016 C300 I was looking into. He was wondering if I would still like to come in and try it out.
    I told him we were too busy now and I was putting it on the back burner + it is an hour and a quarter of heavy driving each way. Then he said, you know, you should try out the 2016 because the new body style changeover made a huge difference in comparison to the 2014 model (which I have). That seemed to send out an alarm bell to me.....they will probably offer me even less for my beautiful 2014 than the KBB/Edmunds trade-in price.

    I was thinking about it after, I think I would have gone for it if I could trade at about $10000 to $11000 difference. It would be worth it to get a car that is 2 years newer, with 15k miles on it instead of 30k. But, if they only give me $11700 for it, it is going to be $15000 difference with taxes etc.,.....just doesn't compute for me.

    The poor guy was really trying, well when would you like to come in and test drive this cardinal red 2016 beauty and all that. Don't worry, I am not like ILUV, I haven't even dreamed of about the 2016 or had any strong urges to go for it! I know if I did you guys would help and stop me. Kind of a CBA club, car buyers anonymous.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • ventureventure Central PAPosts: 1,546
    driver100 said:

    I got a call from the salesman with the 2016 C300 I was looking into. He was wondering if I would still like to come in and try it out.
    I told him we were too busy now and I was putting it on the back burner + it is an hour and a quarter of heavy driving each way. Then he said, you know, you should try out the 2016 because the new body style changeover made a huge difference in comparison to the 2014 model (which I have). That seemed to send out an alarm bell to me.....they will probably offer me even less for my beautiful 2014 than the KBB/Edmunds trade-in price.

    I was thinking about it after, I think I would have gone for it if I could trade at about $10000 to $11000 difference. It would be worth it to get a car that is 2 years newer, with 15k miles on it instead of 30k. But, if they only give me $11700 for it, it is going to be $15000 difference with taxes etc.,.....just doesn't compute for me.

    The poor guy was really trying, well when would you like to come in and test drive this cardinal red 2016 beauty and all that. Don't worry, I am not like ILUV, I haven't even dreamed of about the 2016 or had any strong urges to go for it! I know if I did you guys would help and stop me. Kind of a CBA club, car buyers anonymous.

    We would absolutely stop you. Heh heh.

    Tell him to bring it to your house so you can drive it. Better yet, meet him at the corner store so he doesn't know where you live. :smile:

    2020 Ascent, 2018 Legacy 3.6R

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 35,841
    Driver, simple solution. Find one local to you to drive. Even different colors and options, will pretty much drive the same. At least that will tell you if you would rather own one.

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD (wife's)

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 26,153
    venture said:

    driver100 said:

    I got a call from the salesman with the 2016 C300 I was looking into. He was wondering if I would still like to come in and try it out.
    I told him we were too busy now and I was putting it on the back burner + it is an hour and a quarter of heavy driving each way. Then he said, you know, you should try out the 2016 because the new body style changeover made a huge difference in comparison to the 2014 model (which I have). That seemed to send out an alarm bell to me.....they will probably offer me even less for my beautiful 2014 than the KBB/Edmunds trade-in price.

    I was thinking about it after, I think I would have gone for it if I could trade at about $10000 to $11000 difference. It would be worth it to get a car that is 2 years newer, with 15k miles on it instead of 30k. But, if they only give me $11700 for it, it is going to be $15000 difference with taxes etc.,.....just doesn't compute for me.

    The poor guy was really trying, well when would you like to come in and test drive this cardinal red 2016 beauty and all that. Don't worry, I am not like ILUV, I haven't even dreamed of about the 2016 or had any strong urges to go for it! I know if I did you guys would help and stop me. Kind of a CBA club, car buyers anonymous.

    We would absolutely stop you. Heh heh.

    Tell him to bring it to your house so you can drive it. Better yet, meet him at the corner store so he doesn't know where you live. :smile:
    I like that idea....maybe meet me at the police station.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 26,153
    stickguy said:

    Driver, simple solution. Find one local to you to drive. Even different colors and options, will pretty much drive the same. At least that will tell you if you would rather own one.

    The closest dealer who may have one is about 40 minutes away....it wouldn't be an MB dealer though. Closest MB dealers are about 50 minutes and one is an hour and a quarter....the one I am talking to.
    But, really, I am not motivated, it makes more sense to hang on to this car for now, and we love it. Hopefully someone will come up with a backup camera that runs on solar or batteries. You only need it for a minute when you go to backup...it should be doable.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • fintailfintail Posts: 49,491
    The DS is a milestone design and one of the significant cars of the 20th century, but I don't know if fastback = coupe. If that's the case, one can make a similar claim for 40s era US car fastback sedans, which were very streamlined and eye-catching, but not coupes. The fastback theme probably goes back to the Tatra 77 ~1933 (another milestone car, amazing). Then again, it isn't a coupe just because a maker calls it one, no matter what MB or Rover claim B)

    Citroen definitely isn't what it once was. Still a little quirky, but nothing like the DS/CX days. Odd fact, DS and ID were actually sold in small numbers in the US through the life of the model, and there was even a private importer or two sending over CX during the 80s.
    dino001 said:


    There were other cars before that that may not have been badged "four door coupe", but certainly looked like them. Citroen DS, started in 1955 with the sloped back. They called them later "fastback". This was probably most interesting design EVER. It was also very innovative, lots of new stuff that others copied later. Of course it was also prone to break down, especially those hydraulic systems. Anyway, I used to have soft spot for Citroens, even if they looked weird (and they sometimes really did). These were times when the French stylists and industrial designers had no fear. It's a shame how generic Citroen became these days under PSA.

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Posts: 14,372
    driver100 said:

    dino001 said:

    fintail said:

    CLA is A-based, where the CLS is the odd hybrid, being E-based. CLS is also a case of MB hitting it out of the park with a new niche later embraced by BMW and Audi. The original was a significant design and has aged well, ~15 years after introduction and it doesn't look old. Not really my fave though, short windows limit visibility too much for me.

    MB doesn't get total credit for the "4 door coupe" ideal though, I think that goes to the Rover P5B Coupe that debuted around 1962. It was even badged "Coupe" although it has 4 doors.

    There were other cars before that that may not have been badged "four door coupe", but certainly looked like them. Citroen DS, started in 1955 with the sloped back. They called them later "fastback". This was probably most interesting design EVER. It was also very innovative, lots of new stuff that others copied later. Of course it was also prone to break down, especially those hydraulic systems. Anyway, I used to have soft spot for Citroens, even if they looked weird (and the sometimes really did). These were times when the French stylists and industrial designers had no fear. It's a shame how generic Citroen became these days under PSA.



    Those early Citroens were a bit off the charts ugly, but they kind of refined the look, and improved on it by 1985.

    At least it is unique, you won't mistake it for something else.
    Except maybe for a Buick Tourx. Saw one of these today and thought it was a BMW until I saw the Buick crest.


    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2004 Chevy Van, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 14,223
    The DS is most famous for the De Gaulle incident.
    2019 Lincoln MKZ Reserve 1, 2017 Ford F-150 Limited
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Posts: 14,372
    edited December 2019
    driver100 said:

    I got a call from the salesman with the 2016 C300 I was looking into. He was wondering if I would still like to come in and try it out.
    I told him we were too busy now and I was putting it on the back burner + it is an hour and a quarter of heavy driving each way. Then he said, you know, you should try out the 2016 because the new body style changeover made a huge difference in comparison to the 2014 model (which I have). That seemed to send out an alarm bell to me.....they will probably offer me even less for my beautiful 2014 than the KBB/Edmunds trade-in price.

    I was thinking about it after, I think I would have gone for it if I could trade at about $10000 to $11000 difference. It would be worth it to get a car that is 2 years newer, with 15k miles on it instead of 30k. But, if they only give me $11700 for it, it is going to be $15000 difference with taxes etc.,.....just doesn't compute for me.

    The poor guy was really trying, well when would you like to come in and test drive this cardinal red 2016 beauty and all that. Don't worry, I am not like ILUV, I haven't even dreamed of about the 2016 or had any strong urges to go for it! I know if I did you guys would help and stop me. Kind of a CBA club, car buyers anonymous.


    How do you know what they will give you for your 2014 if you didn’t “come on down”? You’ll never get a better deal than at the end of year sales period.

    Sounds like you’re looking for excuses not to buy.

    Speaking of buying, my Ford dealer’s latest missive is offering me $17,770 trade in on my Mustang with 0% financing in a 2019. The offer is loaded with qualifiers but seems pretty straight forward. They overestimate my milage by 2000 and the condition as “average or better” (mine is showroom). I think I might be able to wrangle a better trade offer. $475 a month for 60 months. Should I be tempted?

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2004 Chevy Van, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 35,841
    does the new one offer anything of significance to you? If not, no.

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD (wife's)

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Posts: 14,372
    driver100 said:

    venture said:

    driver100 said:

    I got a call from the salesman with the 2016 C300 I was looking into. He was wondering if I would still like to come in and try it out.
    I told him we were too busy now and I was putting it on the back burner + it is an hour and a quarter of heavy driving each way. Then he said, you know, you should try out the 2016 because the new body style changeover made a huge difference in comparison to the 2014 model (which I have). That seemed to send out an alarm bell to me.....they will probably offer me even less for my beautiful 2014 than the KBB/Edmunds trade-in price.

    I was thinking about it after, I think I would have gone for it if I could trade at about $10000 to $11000 difference. It would be worth it to get a car that is 2 years newer, with 15k miles on it instead of 30k. But, if they only give me $11700 for it, it is going to be $15000 difference with taxes etc.,.....just doesn't compute for me.

    The poor guy was really trying, well when would you like to come in and test drive this cardinal red 2016 beauty and all that. Don't worry, I am not like ILUV, I haven't even dreamed of about the 2016 or had any strong urges to go for it! I know if I did you guys would help and stop me. Kind of a CBA club, car buyers anonymous.

    We would absolutely stop you. Heh heh.

    Tell him to bring it to your house so you can drive it. Better yet, meet him at the corner store so he doesn't know where you live. :smile:
    I like that idea....maybe meet me at the police station.
    Are you afraid the salesman will kidnap you and lock you in the trunk until you agree to buy?

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2004 Chevy Van, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Posts: 14,372
    stickguy said:

    does the new one offer anything of significance to you? If not, no.


    For $17,770 knowing the condition of my car I would buy it in a heartbeat. The only thing I would want on a new one is the performance package but I’m sure that would change the deal so, no.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2004 Chevy Van, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 26,153

    driver100 said:

    I got a call from the salesman with the 2016 C300 I was looking into. He was wondering if I would still like to come in and try it out.
    I told him we were too busy now and I was putting it on the back burner + it is an hour and a quarter of heavy driving each way. Then he said, you know, you should try out the 2016 because the new body style changeover made a huge difference in comparison to the 2014 model (which I have). That seemed to send out an alarm bell to me.....they will probably offer me even less for my beautiful 2014 than the KBB/Edmunds trade-in price.

    I was thinking about it after, I think I would have gone for it if I could trade at about $10000 to $11000 difference. It would be worth it to get a car that is 2 years newer, with 15k miles on it instead of 30k. But, if they only give me $11700 for it, it is going to be $15000 difference with taxes etc.,.....just doesn't compute for me.

    The poor guy was really trying, well when would you like to come in and test drive this cardinal red 2016 beauty and all that. Don't worry, I am not like ILUV, I haven't even dreamed of about the 2016 or had any strong urges to go for it! I know if I did you guys would help and stop me. Kind of a CBA club, car buyers anonymous.


    How do you know what they will give you for your 2014 if you didn’t “come on down”? You’ll never get a better deal than at the end of year sales period.

    Sounds like you’re looking for excuses not to buy.

    Speaking of buying, my Ford dealer’s latest missive is offering me $17,770 trade in on my Mustang with 0% financing in a 2019. The offer is loaded with qualifiers but seems pretty straight forward. They overestimate my milage by 2000 and the condition as “average or better” (mine is showroom). I think I might be able to wrangle a better trade offer. $475 a month for 60 months. Should I be tempted?
    Edmunds and KBB say mine is worth $11700 if in excellent condition, which in my opinion I think it is.

    I haven't heard of dealers offering more than book value, unless there is a very special reason...like they have a buyer. Plus, I really am not too interested.

    Oldfarmer are you tempted at $17770. How much depreciation is that? Isn't $475 a month about $5500 a year or $27500 for 5 years + $17770 or over $44000 (I don't know where the calculator is here). If you were to buy your 2015 Stang, how much would it cost?

    If I saw my car for sale for $11700, and if I needed a car, I would snap it up in a second.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • 28firefighter28firefighter Seattle, WAPosts: 6,172
    I would say no, @oldfarmer50
    2019 Subaru Outback 3.6R Limited, 2019 BMW i3 REX, 2004 BMW 330i ZHP 6MT
  • abacomikeabacomike South FloridaPosts: 10,777
    edited December 2019
    driver100 said:

    abacomike said:

    driver100 said:

    Michaell said:

    driver100 said:

    ab348 said:

    driver100 said:


    Good idea, us older drivers get all those letters and numbers mixed up.
    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

    So, you're saying you own 3 vehicles but you have no idea of what models they are?
    :p
    lol........but I go in and buy them because I like them.....the numbers and letters don't do a lot for me. At least MB, BMW, Audi keep the numbers and letters about the same. A in MB is small, C larger, E larger and S larger still. Cadillac and Lincoln keep changing the numbers and letters and there is no rhyme or reason to their meaning.

    I was thinking....remember when Cadillac moved to New York so staff would get more inspiration? I wonder how that worked out? I think our C&C gang knew how that was going to go.
    Is the CLA bigger or smaller than the A? CLS bigger or smaller than the S?

    I think the new GLB is smaller than the GLA, which makes no sense to me.
    Where's Mike when we need him. You probably need a salesman to straighten those out. Generally speaking, they kind of get bigger the further along in the alphabet. :s
    CLA is bigger than the A
    CLS is smaller than the S
    Thanks for the clarification Mike. What is happening with the eye surgery?
    My next appointment with the ophthalmologist is 3 weeks from Friday. I put drops in my eyes (3 different kinds) 4 times a day. Eventually, the frequency decreases.

    The first thing I noticed when looking through the "repaired" eye is that my walls and ceilings in my condo are actually white instead of light grey or beige. I can see medium distances and farther distances clearly but can't read. So I took the right lens out of my frames so I could see distances while the left lens helps me see both.

    It is not comfortable but will have better vision once he replaces the left lens in 5-6 weeks. He won't give me a new prescription for glasses until March when the left eye heals.

    I used to be nearsighted but the new lenses make me farsighted. Thus I will need progressive lenses where the upper part of the lens has slight focal power for distances and stronger focal power in the lower part of the lens for close up reading and seeing. It's no fun!

    2018 Mercedes S450

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Posts: 14,372
    driver100 said:

    driver100 said:

    I got a call from the salesman with the 2016 C300 I was looking into. He was wondering if I would still like to come in and try it out.
    I told him we were too busy now and I was putting it on the back burner + it is an hour and a quarter of heavy driving each way. Then he said, you know, you should try out the 2016 because the new body style changeover made a huge difference in comparison to the 2014 model (which I have). That seemed to send out an alarm bell to me.....they will probably offer me even less for my beautiful 2014 than the KBB/Edmunds trade-in price.

    I was thinking about it after, I think I would have gone for it if I could trade at about $10000 to $11000 difference. It would be worth it to get a car that is 2 years newer, with 15k miles on it instead of 30k. But, if they only give me $11700 for it, it is going to be $15000 difference with taxes etc.,.....just doesn't compute for me.

    The poor guy was really trying, well when would you like to come in and test drive this cardinal red 2016 beauty and all that. Don't worry, I am not like ILUV, I haven't even dreamed of about the 2016 or had any strong urges to go for it! I know if I did you guys would help and stop me. Kind of a CBA club, car buyers anonymous.


    How do you know what they will give you for your 2014 if you didn’t “come on down”? You’ll never get a better deal than at the end of year sales period.

    Sounds like you’re looking for excuses not to buy.

    Speaking of buying, my Ford dealer’s latest missive is offering me $17,770 trade in on my Mustang with 0% financing in a 2019. The offer is loaded with qualifiers but seems pretty straight forward. They overestimate my milage by 2000 and the condition as “average or better” (mine is showroom). I think I might be able to wrangle a better trade offer. $475 a month for 60 months. Should I be tempted?
    Edmunds and KBB say mine is worth $11700 if in excellent condition, which in my opinion I think it is.

    I haven't heard of dealers offering more than book value, unless there is a very special reason...like they have a buyer. Plus, I really am not too interested.

    Oldfarmer are you tempted at $17770. How much depreciation is that? Isn't $475 a month about $5500 a year or $27500 for 5 years + $17770 or over $44000 (I don't know where the calculator is here). If you were to buy your 2015 Stang, how much would it cost?

    If I saw my car for sale for $11700, and if I needed a car, I would snap it up in a second.

    A dealer might offer over book on trade if he really needed one more sale to make a quota or bonus. Remember a dealer typically has a 30% mark up over cost so there’s wiggle room. He can knock off the asking price or raise your trade offer.

    Am I tempted with a $17,770 offer? Not really. The $475/mo offer includes sales tax so it’s not $44k for the car. You make a good point though, even if you back out the $2000 or so in taxes the price for the car would still be substantially higher than the $31,000 I paid for the 2015. That’s why you never bite at the monthly payment offer.

    Mustangs similar to mine retail for low to mid $20s.

    By saying you would snap up your present car at the trade value I think you also answered your own question. Don’t buy the 2016 MB.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2004 Chevy Van, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 26,153
    abacomike said:

    driver100 said:

    abacomike said:

    driver100 said:

    Michaell said:

    driver100 said:

    ab348 said:

    driver100 said:


    Good idea, us older drivers get all those letters and numbers mixed up.
    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

    So, you're saying you own 3 vehicles but you have no idea of what models they are?
    :p
    lol........but I go in and buy them because I like them.....the numbers and letters don't do a lot for me. At least MB, BMW, Audi keep the numbers and letters about the same. A in MB is small, C larger, E larger and S larger still. Cadillac and Lincoln keep changing the numbers and letters and there is no rhyme or reason to their meaning.

    I was thinking....remember when Cadillac moved to New York so staff would get more inspiration? I wonder how that worked out? I think our C&C gang knew how that was going to go.
    Is the CLA bigger or smaller than the A? CLS bigger or smaller than the S?

    I think the new GLB is smaller than the GLA, which makes no sense to me.
    Where's Mike when we need him. You probably need a salesman to straighten those out. Generally speaking, they kind of get bigger the further along in the alphabet. :s
    CLA is bigger than the A
    CLS is smaller than the S
    Thanks for the clarification Mike. What is happening with the eye surgery?

    I used to be nearsighted but the new lenses make me farsighted. Thus I will need progressive lenses where the upper part of the lens has slight focal power for distances and stronger focal power in the lower part of the lens for close up reading and seeing. It's no fun!
    Mike, sounds like you don't feel that major pain you experienced at first. Few things go easily during the healing period, but it seems like you are moving forward.....which is good.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 26,153

    driver100 said:

    driver100 said:

    I got a call from the salesman with the 2016 C300 I was looking into. He was wondering if I would still like to come in and try it out.
    I told him we were too busy now and I was putting it on the back burner + it is an hour and a quarter of heavy driving each way. Then he said, you know, you should try out the 2016 because the new body style changeover made a huge difference in comparison to the 2014 model (which I have). That seemed to send out an alarm bell to me.....they will probably offer me even less for my beautiful 2014 than the KBB/Edmunds trade-in price.

    I was thinking about it after, I think I would have gone for it if I could trade at about $10000 to $11000 difference. It would be worth it to get a car that is 2 years newer, with 15k miles on it instead of 30k. But, if they only give me $11700 for it, it is going to be $15000 difference with taxes etc.,.....just doesn't compute for me.

    The poor guy was really trying, well when would you like to come in and test drive this cardinal red 2016 beauty and all that. Don't worry, I am not like ILUV, I haven't even dreamed of about the 2016 or had any strong urges to go for it! I know if I did you guys would help and stop me. Kind of a CBA club, car buyers anonymous.


    How do you know what they will give you for your 2014 if you didn’t “come on down”? You’ll never get a better deal than at the end of year sales period.

    Sounds like you’re looking for excuses not to buy.

    Speaking of buying, my Ford dealer’s latest missive is offering me $17,770 trade in on my Mustang with 0% financing in a 2019. The offer is loaded with qualifiers but seems pretty straight forward. They overestimate my milage by 2000 and the condition as “average or better” (mine is showroom). I think I might be able to wrangle a better trade offer. $475 a month for 60 months. Should I be tempted?
    Edmunds and KBB say mine is worth $11700 if in excellent condition, which in my opinion I think it is.

    I haven't heard of dealers offering more than book value, unless there is a very special reason...like they have a buyer. Plus, I really am not too interested.

    Oldfarmer are you tempted at $17770. How much depreciation is that? Isn't $475 a month about $5500 a year or $27500 for 5 years + $17770 or over $44000 (I don't know where the calculator is here). If you were to buy your 2015 Stang, how much would it cost?

    If I saw my car for sale for $11700, and if I needed a car, I would snap it up in a second.

    Mustangs similar to mine retail for low to mid $20s.

    By saying you would snap up your present car at the trade value I think you also answered your own question. Don’t buy the 2016 MB.
    The ideal difference to me would be $10000. The new one is $25000, mine has suggested trade-in of $11700, so a $13300 difference.
    But, like you say at the end, I think my car is the real bargain here, at $11700 I don't think the 2016 is going to be more than twice as good. I can't get my head around that.

    Usually, when I trade in a car, there is something I don't like about my current car any more, and the new car has something I really want. I am not feeling that in this case. I'd be moving up, but not by more than double!

    How to talk yourself out of a new car....I should give lessons over on Car Buyers Addicted.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Posts: 14,372
    “How to talk yourself out of a new car....I should give lessons over on Car Buyers Addicted.”

    I’m afraid you’d get run out on a rail over there. :o

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2004 Chevy Van, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • bwiabwia Boston Posts: 2,416
    abacomike said:

    driver100 said:

    abacomike said:

    driver100 said:

    Michaell said:

    driver100 said:

    ab348 said:

    driver100 said:


    Good idea, us older drivers get all those letters and numbers mixed up.
    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

    So, you're saying you own 3 vehicles but you have no idea of what models they are?
    :p
    lol........but I go in and buy them because I like them.....the numbers and letters don't do a lot for me. At least MB, BMW, Audi keep the numbers and letters about the same. A in MB is small, C larger, E larger and S larger still. Cadillac and Lincoln keep changing the numbers and letters and there is no rhyme or reason to their meaning.

    I was thinking....remember when Cadillac moved to New York so staff would get more inspiration? I wonder how that worked out? I think our C&C gang knew how that was going to go.
    Is the CLA bigger or smaller than the A? CLS bigger or smaller than the S?

    I think the new GLB is smaller than the GLA, which makes no sense to me.
    Where's Mike when we need him. You probably need a salesman to straighten those out. Generally speaking, they kind of get bigger the further along in the alphabet. :s
    CLA is bigger than the A
    CLS is smaller than the S
    Thanks for the clarification Mike. What is happening with the eye surgery?
    My next appointment with the ophthalmologist is 3 weeks from Friday. I put drops in my eyes (3 different kinds) 4 times a day. Eventually, the frequency decreases.

    The first thing I noticed when looking through the "repaired" eye is that my walls and ceilings in my condo are actually white instead of light grey or beige. I can see medium distances and farther distances clearly but can't read. So I took the right lens out of my frames so I could see distances while the left lens helps me see both.

    It is not comfortable but will have better vision once he replaces the left lens in 5-6 weeks. He won't give me a new prescription for glasses until March when the left eye heals.

    I used to be nearsighted but the new lenses make me farsighted. Thus I will need progressive lenses where the upper part of the lens has slight focal power for distances and stronger focal power in the lower part of the lens for close up reading and seeing. It's no fun!
    @mike, glad to hear that you are on the mend. My wife had cataract surgery in one eye some 6 years ago and never went back to do the second eye. Her vision had improved so much that she could thread a needle. Overall, she was satisfied with the procedure but in the last year or so, her eyesight has been gradually deteriorating so she is considering surgery on the second eye.

    Good luck and happy driving with your bionic eye.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Edmunds Poster EmeritusPosts: 11,848
    Mike....good deal on the eyes. With the drops and the follow up appointment, sounds like pretty standard fare. IIRC, that’s about the same as I followed when I had the lenses replaced in my eyes. You’re enjoying the fruits of modern opthalmic surgery now.

    Funny (sorta), eye had extended elevated pressure in my left eye when I had surgery for a detached retina. For a while, they were worried I was in the beginning stages of glaucoma. Jokingly, I asked my ophthalmologist whether he would write a script for pot, which is supposed to alleviate the eye pressure. His response....”I will if you want me to”.

    Bottom line, the pressure alleviated and I didn’t get that script. Couldn’t have used it anyway. I do some DOD work and have random drug tests done by my employer from time-to-time. :)
    2018 Acura TLX 3.5 SH AWD A-SPEC
Sign In or Register to comment.