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    driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,008

    driver100 said:

    dino001 said:

    ab348 said:

    dino001 said:


    I don't recall seeing such high gas prices when I was in Alberta 2015. It was more, but not two or three times. Are there large variations between provinces?

    There used to be up until recently. Alberta gas prices were traditionally always much less than elsewhere in Canada. For reasons that are not clear to me that is not the case at present. Right now the cheapest gas in Canada is in parts of Ontario at 83 cents/liter, while it is over 90 cents in Alberta. A couple of years ago when we were paying $1.20/L here, prices in Alberta were maybe 30-40 cents less per liter.
    0.9 CAD/l = 3.40 CAD/gal. = 2.52 USD/gal., far cry from "two-three times" more than US, as Driver claimed. Florida has current price of regular about 1.80 USD/gal., mostly due to low demand. Much normal price is around 2.50-3 bucks. Even now it is less than in many US jurisdictions now - California, for example.
    I'm not as good at math as you Dino but I just paid $1.28 a litre for premium, Reg is about $1....a litre. I understand 4.5 litres = 1 Imp gal, 4 liters equals one U.S gallon. 4 litres at $1 = $4 U.S, you just said gas was $1.80 in Florida. Sorry if my math is off but looks like more than 2X.
    Well 1 Canadian dollar is 0.74 US dollars and a gallon is 3.785 liters so a dollar a liter would be 2.80 USD a gallon. Since RUG is in the 2.20 range around here that would make gas there about 25% more expensive.
    Dino had rug at $1.80....and the spread has been more at times. Nice calculating though....good thing they didn't need me to calculate the moon landings!

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

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    roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,422
    edited June 2020
    At BMW we could order any SUV save the X1 and X2 and get it in four weeks or less- assuming no BMW Individual pieces were selected.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-2021 Sahara 4xe-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

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    driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,008
    dino001 said:

    driver100 said:


    It is exactly apples to apples. Tomorrow 1 litre of reg will be $1.05 CDN. 3.8 litres = 1 U.S. gallon.
    That is $4 Cdn. $4 Cdn = $2.96 U.S. Gas in Florida is $1.80...not quite double but there was a wider difference before the pandemic. A large percentage of our cost of gas goes for taxes, to help pay for things like universal medicare....which is OK with me.
    When you compare to Alberta things have changed drastically, Alberta was a big oil producer and oil was over $100 a barrel, today they lose money on oil under $40 a barrel...the economy in Alberta is really hurting.

    Well, $1.80 is the lowest since early 2000s. Typical price here varies between 2.50-3.00 USD per gallon. So for the spread to be "larger" than 1.65 (your implied number) currently calculated, your price would have to be over 1.47-1.77 CAD per litre, respective to the mentioned Florida prices. To be "twice", as you originally mentioned the range would have to be 1.80-2.15 CAD, "three times", 2.60-3.20 CAD/liter. Was it ever? You see, I have seen "two-three times" higher gas prices (UK, France, or even Poland that still is cheaper than Western Europe countries), they don't look anywhere close to those in Canada. It feels much more painful to pump gas there then you have ever experienced, Alberta or not Alberta :wink:
    This winter gas was $1.99 in Florida at one point........and usually between $2.18 and to $2.40. Gasoline reached a high in Canada according to this:
    Canadians are looking at a very expensive 2018 when it comes to gas.
    In B.C. the price of gas hit $1.619 on Monday - that is a litre!

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

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    dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,179
    edited June 2020
    I remember lady at the Spartanburg's BMW plant (they make X-series) claimed "all cars are ordered by customers". It was obviously nonsense, dealers order them for their own accounts, sometimes they even create fake customer if the configuration is restricted. What she meant was that they produce only what is ordered either by a customer or dealers SM (as opposed to other manufacturers who decide on the configurations themselves, make the cars and then make dealers take and try to sell them), but it sounds so much better to imply that every car has already a customer at time of production. I didn't really appreciate this kind of conceit.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

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    dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,179
    edited June 2020
    driver100 said:

    This winter gas was $1.99 in Florida at one point........and usually between $2.18 and to $2.40. Gasoline reached a high in Canada according to this:
    Canadians are looking at a very expensive 2018 when it comes to gas.
    In B.C. the price of gas hit $1.619 on Monday - that is a litre!

    My eyes are crying out for you ... :wink: How would you like to pay 1.30 GBP/litre, or 1.65 EUR/litre? Every tank would take around 100 bucks or more. I remember it from my European Delivery trip. The previous 328i wasn't exactly a gas miser, 24-25 mpg on the trip so it was a substantial cost. 430 was much better, I averaged 28+ mpg on that one, IIRC. I did somewhere around 2500 miles both times.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

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    qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,004
    A lot of those Simpsons references could be on a large lake, and those things happening at the ocean don't necessarily mean they didn't have to drive there.

    In any case, supposedly it is Oregon, as that is where Groening grew up and he (in a 2012 interview) admits it is based on his childhood/hometown. But he liked the idea there are Springfields everywhere and also chose that name so more folks could identify with it. We of course know it is a completely fictitious place. In the Simpsons Movie, Ned claims they border Ohio, Nevada, Maine, and Kentucky. lol.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

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    omarmanomarman Member Posts: 2,702
    jipster said:

    They've showed his boat docked.

    qbrozen said:


    the state that the Simpsons takes place has direct access to the open sea.

    I'm gonna regret this ... how do we know this?

    Nice detective work there oldfarmer. And hopefully everyone in here knows that Kentucky is not bordered by the ocean. :smile:
    Yep and I hope everybody knows that the Simpsons is just a cartoon. :smile:
    A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing.
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    dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,179
    edited June 2020
    You mean it's not real :worried: ???

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

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    qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,004
    omarman said:

    jipster said:

    They've showed his boat docked.

    qbrozen said:


    the state that the Simpsons takes place has direct access to the open sea.

    I'm gonna regret this ... how do we know this?

    Nice detective work there oldfarmer. And hopefully everyone in here knows that Kentucky is not bordered by the ocean. :smile:
    Yep and I hope everybody knows that the Simpsons is just a cartoon. :smile:
    No way. My sister's former roommate's dad's cousin lived next door to them.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

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    stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,709
    dino001 said:

    You mean it's not real :worried: ???

    well, it predicted a shocking amount of things that actually ended up happening, so maybe it is just a cartoon that can predict the future?

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

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    oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 22,758
    fintail said:

    I am pretty sure it is in Oregon - as Groening is from OR and there's even some tourism stuff in the town (kind of a twin city to Eugene, where the latter is seen as maybe being more with it.




    The creator would never admit to which Springfield was his model. There’s one in MA too. From various references to upstate NY I’d guess Groning spent some time here as well.

    OK, I have the final word on this Springfield thing. Groening selected the name Springfield because every state had a Springfield of some sort therefore making it universally recognizable.

    This is according to my wife who is never wrong.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

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    oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 22,758
    fintail said:

    Funny, I paid $3 USD for PUG at Chevron yesterday - and even at Costco it was like $2.80. So it balances out price-wise, yet we get less bang for our buck in tax rewards.

    Dangerous to base an economy on resource extraction.


    driver100 said:



    It is exactly apples to apples. Tomorrow 1 litre of reg will be $1.05 CDN. 3.8 litres = 1 U.S. gallon.
    That is $4 Cdn. $4 Cdn = $2.96 U.S. Gas in Florida is $1.80...not quite double but there was a wider difference before the pandemic. A large percentage of our cost of gas goes for taxes, to help pay for things like universal medicare....which is OK with me.
    When you compare to Alberta things have changed drastically, Alberta was a big oil producer and oil was over $100 a barrel, today they lose money on oil under $40 a barrel...the economy in Alberta is really hurting.

    I filled up with top tier RUG yesterday for $1.99. PUG 93 is $2.49. Most stations are back up to about $2.20 for regular.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,243
    It's a cheapskate thing, probably a car destined for Ottawa and got sent out here instead. I think it has power windows, but nothing else. It's all relative, 85F is a "hot" day in this part of the world. I didn't get my first AC car until the 21st century!

    I am sure you didn't need AC back in the day, even though the walk was uphill both ways, there was 6 feet of snow on the ground ;)



    Maybe folks who buy cars like that are environmentalists who want to limit their footprint. Would you even need AC in British Columbia? I didn’t get my first air conditioned car until 1987. Prior to that we just fanned ourselves with our bootstraps. ;)

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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,243
    I remember when I had a 528i (touring) rental in Germany, I would stop at 100 Euro when refueling, no matter what it needed, just out of principle. It would easily go over 100 Euro (and the USD was weaker then, too). In a way, I didn't cringe too much, as at least I was mostly dealing on excellent roads with competent drivers. You get what you pay for, perhaps.

    All subsequent rentals were diesel, save for the F-Type roadster, which I somehow didn't mind refueling.
    dino001 said:



    My eyes are crying out for you ... :wink: How would you like to pay 1.30 GBP/litre, or 1.65 EUR/litre? Every tank would take around 100 bucks or more. I remember it from my European Delivery trip. The previous 328i wasn't exactly a gas miser, 24-25 mpg on the trip so it was a substantial cost. 430 was much better, I averaged 28+ mpg on that one, IIRC. I did somewhere around 2500 miles both times.

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    oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 22,758
    edited June 2020
    dino001 said:

    andres3 said:


    I'm convinced a lot of "Sales Managers" are lousy at their jobs, at least at Dealerships that are not setting the world on fire with sales numbers. Then again, maybe my tastes are just different than most other people when it comes to cars, but I find the abundance of 50 shades of gray exteriors with black interiors to be appalling. :disappointed:

    I have the same impression. This is especially visible when you see completely different configurations (color, equipment, trims) in dealerships 20 miles apart and you hear "we order what sells". So let me get it straight - in Tampa white with beige stripper sells and in Sarasota it is grey with grey fully loaded (made up example). I call baloney, it's basically the SM taste, it's what he likes and he thinks others will.

    I’ve also heard that sometimes, like with the car rental companies, the manufacturer will offer a discount if the dealer takes a block of surplus inventory more or less sight unseen. Then the dealer expects the sales staff to move them.

    Back in 1980 I went to my local Dodge place to inquire about an ad for Omnis. The salesman pointed me to a back lot containing over 100 cars (maybe more) and said to take my pick as they were all the same price.

    There was every imaginable combo of colors and options you could imagine, some of them quite bizarre. I picked out one that I could live with. Light grey with red interior.

    Just for kicks I stopped off at a Plymouth dealer on the way to pick the Omni next day. They had maybe 6 Horizons (same car)on the lot. I offered the same price I paid for the Dodge and was broomed right out the door.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

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    snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,345
    omarman said:

    jipster said:

    They've showed his boat docked.

    qbrozen said:


    the state that the Simpsons takes place has direct access to the open sea.

    I'm gonna regret this ... how do we know this?

    Nice detective work there oldfarmer. And hopefully everyone in here knows that Kentucky is not bordered by the ocean. :smile:
    Yep and I hope everybody knows that the Simpsons is just a cartoon. :smile:
    Next your going to tell us that the Flintstones weren't a modern stone age family.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

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    omarmanomarman Member Posts: 2,702
    With Perry Masonry and Bronto Berger? That was reality programming when I was a kid.
    image
    A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing.
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    sdasda Member Posts: 7,010

    dino001 said:

    andres3 said:


    I'm convinced a lot of "Sales Managers" are lousy at their jobs, at least at Dealerships that are not setting the world on fire with sales numbers. Then again, maybe my tastes are just different than most other people when it comes to cars, but I find the abundance of 50 shades of gray exteriors with black interiors to be appalling. :disappointed:

    I have the same impression. This is especially visible when you see completely different configurations (color, equipment, trims) in dealerships 20 miles apart and you hear "we order what sells". So let me get it straight - in Tampa white with beige stripper sells and in Sarasota it is grey with grey fully loaded (made up example). I call baloney, it's basically the SM taste, it's what he likes and he thinks others will.

    I’ve also heard that sometimes, like with the car rental companies, the manufacturer will offer a discount if the dealer takes a block of surplus inventory more or less sight unseen. Then the dealer expects the sales staff to move them.

    Back in 1980 I went to my local Dodge place to inquire about an ad for Omnis. The salesman pointed me to a back lot containing over 100 cars (maybe more) and said to take my pick as they were all the same price.

    There was every imaginable combo of colors and options you could imagine, some of them quite bizarre. I picked out one that I could live with. Light grey with red interior.

    Just for kicks I stopped off at a Plymouth dealer on the way to pick the Omni next day. They had maybe 6 Horizons (same car)on the lot. I offered the same price I paid for the Dodge and was broomed right out the door.

    What engine did your Omni have? Was the 2.2 available yet? VW or Peugeot based? I had an 84 Horizon SE with the 2.2, 5 sp, ac. It was a very pleasant car, good power, economical, though didn’t handle as well as my 79 Rabbit.

    2018 VW Passat SE w/tech, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech, 2006 Acura TL w/nav

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    qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,004
    Story time. Well, part of a story. I'll let the emails speak for themselves. Is not giving an answer and then acting offended that you didn't answer the question a Canadian thing?

    June 18, 8:45am:
    I booked this flight through Expedia. Since the Canadian government has suspended cruises, I obviously can't use these tickets. I contacted Expedia, but they are telling me only flight credit is available, which I do understand most airlines are doing this, but that I would have to pay a $100 fee per passenger. Is this accurate?

    June 22, 3:35pm:
    Thank you for your email regarding your planned travel with Air Canada. I can understand how these changing times may have impacted your travel plans, and caused an inconvenience.

    These are unprecedented times globally, and particularly for the airline industry, which is experiencing the most profound crisis in its history. In response, airlines have changed everything about how they operate, from massive workforce reductions, and the grounding of entire fleets, to changes in the products and services customers have come to expect.

    We realize that COVID-19 has disrupted the plans of travelers worldwide, and our priority is to ensure that our customers have options with a flexible re-booking policy. Air Canada is offering all of our customers whose travel was cancelled due to the COVID-19 crisis, including those with non-refundable tickets, the option to transfer the remaining value of the ticket to a future travel credit.

    As you booked with a travel agent or any online travel agency (for example, Expedia or Priceline), kindly contact them directly for assistance.

    Our policy of offering the remaining value of the ticket for future travel is not only consistent with how major airlines are managing this unique situation, but it is also in line with our publicly published tariff rules. Our policy states that in the case of uncontrollable cancellations, the airline’s responsibility is to provide alternate travel options (as opposed to refunds), at the end of the event that caused the cancellation.

    This is also consistent with the Canadian Transportation Agency, which recently confirmed in a statement regarding COVID-19, the appropriateness of offering the remaining value of the ticket for future travel due to this unprecedented situation.

    Once again, we apologize for any inconvenience that this has caused, and we thank you for your understanding.

    June 22, 4pm:
    Thank you for your reply, but could you please answer my original question? Are you charging a $100 fee per passenger to obtain the travel credit?

    June 22, 5:30pm:
    Thank you for your follow-up email.

    On behalf of Air Canada, I again offer my sincere apologies for the inconvenience that you experienced. We appreciate that this was disruptive to your travel plans and created a stressful situation.

    We regret we did not conclude this matter to your satisfaction. In our previous email, we provided our explanations. Air Canada Customer Relations cannot advise on your agency ticket, and applicable penalty fees. As advised previously, please contact your travel agency for support. Continuing to exchange emails will not change our position. Respectfully, we consider this matter closed.

    We hope we have the opportunity to welcome you on board in the future.

    June 22, 5:40pm:
    It is a fairly simple question. I am not asking you to change your position.
    So you are NOT charging fees for issuing the credits, is that correct? Because I spoke to the agent and they said Air Canada is charging a $100 fee per person. You simply need to tell me if this is true or not, as I originally asked yet have not been told yes or no.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

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    pensfan83pensfan83 Member Posts: 2,576
    What a pain. I don't think it's just a Canadian thing, I've heard similar stories from co-workers who had trips booked through third parties and are having a heck of time getting their money back.
    1997 Honda Prelude Base - 2022 Acura MDX Type S Advance - 2021 Toyota Tacoma TRD Off Road - 2006 BMW 330Ci ZHP
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    driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,008
    dino001 said:

    I remember lady at the Spartanburg's BMW plant (they make X-series) claimed "all cars are ordered by customers". It was obviously nonsense, dealers order them for their own accounts, sometimes they even create fake customer if the configuration is restricted. What she meant was that they produce only what is ordered either by a customer or dealers SM (as opposed to other manufacturers who decide on the configurations themselves, make the cars and then make dealers take and try to sell them), but it sounds so much better to imply that every car has already a customer at time of production. I didn't really appreciate this kind of conceit.

    They say the same at the MB plant in Stuttgart....every car they make has been ordered. They make a few bulletproof cars there too, but only as ordered. I think it is accurate to say that, because even a car going to a dealer has been ordered by that dealer.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

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    driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,008
    dino001 said:

    driver100 said:

    This winter gas was $1.99 in Florida at one point........and usually between $2.18 and to $2.40. Gasoline reached a high in Canada according to this:
    Canadians are looking at a very expensive 2018 when it comes to gas.
    In B.C. the price of gas hit $1.619 on Monday - that is a litre!

    My eyes are crying out for you ... :wink: How would you like to pay 1.30 GBP/litre, or 1.65 EUR/litre? Every tank would take around 100 bucks or more. I remember it from my European Delivery trip. The previous 328i wasn't exactly a gas miser, 24-25 mpg on the trip so it was a substantial cost. 430 was much better, I averaged 28+ mpg on that one, IIRC. I did somewhere around 2500 miles both times.
    We used to go to London once or twice a year on business...I remember Gas had the same number as us per litre, but Pounds were double a Cdn dollar. But, they do tend to drive much smaller more economical cars, and they don't drive as far, overall.
    One thing that is hard for me to explain but I have to do it for my own sanity. If I buy a meal at a restaurant in Florida and it is $20 I say it cost me $20....I think in that currency. Most Canadians would say it cost $27 in Canadian dollars. We get dividends paid to us in U.S. dollars, so that if the CDN dollar sinks we can still cover our costs. If gas costs me $4.25 CDN which it does now....that I compare to $2.20 U.S as being equivalent. It is what it is....too frustrating if I think about how weak our dollar is.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

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    driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,008
    edited June 2020
    qbrozen said:

    Story time. Well, part of a story. I'll let the emails speak for themselves. Is not giving an answer and then acting offended that you didn't answer the question a Canadian thing?

    June 22, 5:40pm:
    It is a fairly simple question. I am not asking you to change your position.
    So you are NOT charging fees for issuing the credits, is that correct? Because I spoke to the agent and they said Air Canada is charging a $100 fee per person. You simply need to tell me if this is true or not, as I originally asked yet have not been told yes or no.

    I know a pilot who works for Air Canada.......I asked him if AC goes out of their way to try and make people miserable. He said their motto is "We aren't happy unless we can make you unhappy".

    I believe they are saying what AC is doing goes against the rules, but, if they give refunds they will go under. It is really unfair, lets say someone was going somewhere for a one time event, a wedding, meet a cruise ship, go to a sports events. They might not want to go somewhere else in the next 2 years.

    Point is, it is unfair....European airlines are supposed to give refunds. But no recourse....the first reply sounds like a form letter that suited your letter the closest, the second is just to get rid of you. We only have two major national/international airlines, so it is hard to come out on top, especially when they both have the same policy.

    P.S. I don't think it is a Canadian thing...I always answer directly and honestly ;)

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

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    suydamsuydam Member Posts: 4,676
    I am so glad I booked our vacation through an AAA travel agent, and got cancel for any reason insurance, which meant I got every penny refunded to me and the agent did the work. I often don’t do those things, but it was an expensive vacation to Hawaii and Australia. My main concern as a transplant recipient is what if I had some kind of illness right before the trip, but it was a godsend when every country locked down. We would just have been returning about now. Sigh.
    '14 Buick Encore Convenience
    '17 Chevy Volt Premiere
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    28firefighter28firefighter Member Posts: 9,413
    My parents had the same issue with Air Canada. Ended up with future flight credit, but because it wasn’t refunded, their trip insurance also gave them the balance.
    2018 BMW M240i Convertible, 2015 Audi Q5 TDI
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    abacomikeabacomike Member Posts: 12,258
    driver100 said:

    stickguy said:

    a lot of cars don't have those. My Accord had a flatish piece (maybe 1/2" high and 2" square) instead of the fin. I would not be surprised if MB found an alternative to the fin.

    They must have found a way to put the GPS, cell phone, internet into the roof or something instead of the fin.
    Mrs D100s 2015 has a fin, my 2017 doesn't have one. Mike is one very observant individual....I never thought about it. Either he is observant or doesn't have enough to do all day. :D
    Both! 🤪😜🤓

    2021 Genesis G90

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    nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,486
    I was supposed to fly to Disney with my wife and kids next month. We cancelled our trip to Disney. I cancelled our flights and am receiving a full refund for the miles we used plus the fees we paid. Impressive Delta.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

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    oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 22,758
    edited June 2020
    sda said:

    dino001 said:

    andres3 said:


    I'm convinced a lot of "Sales Managers" are lousy at their jobs, at least at Dealerships that are not setting the world on fire with sales numbers. Then again, maybe my tastes are just different than most other people when it comes to cars, but I find the abundance of 50 shades of gray exteriors with black interiors to be appalling. :disappointed:

    I have the same impression. This is especially visible when you see completely different configurations (color, equipment, trims) in dealerships 20 miles apart and you hear "we order what sells". So let me get it straight - in Tampa white with beige stripper sells and in Sarasota it is grey with grey fully loaded (made up example). I call baloney, it's basically the SM taste, it's what he likes and he thinks others will.

    I’ve also heard that sometimes, like with the car rental companies, the manufacturer will offer a discount if the dealer takes a block of surplus inventory more or less sight unseen. Then the dealer expects the sales staff to move them.

    Back in 1980 I went to my local Dodge place to inquire about an ad for Omnis. The salesman pointed me to a back lot containing over 100 cars (maybe more) and said to take my pick as they were all the same price.

    There was every imaginable combo of colors and options you could imagine, some of them quite bizarre. I picked out one that I could live with. Light grey with red interior.

    Just for kicks I stopped off at a Plymouth dealer on the way to pick the Omni next day. They had maybe 6 Horizons (same car)on the lot. I offered the same price I paid for the Dodge and was broomed right out the door.

    What engine did your Omni have? Was the 2.2 available yet? VW or Peugeot based? I had an 84 Horizon SE with the 2.2, 5 sp, ac. It was a very pleasant car, good power, economical, though didn’t handle as well as my 79 Rabbit.
    I think it was the 1.7 with VW heritage. The 2.2 didn’t appear until the next year. Don’t really remember though. I know it wasn’t a V8.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

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    oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 22,758
    edited June 2020
    Here’s a Mustang driver who probably regrets her choice of bumper stickers. Who said Canadians don’t know how to have a good time.



    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

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    qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,004
    nyccarguy said:

    I was supposed to fly to Disney with my wife and kids next month. We cancelled our trip to Disney. I cancelled our flights and am receiving a full refund for the miles we used plus the fees we paid. Impressive Delta.

    Delta gave full travel credit for our return trips from Alaska. It is absurd to me that AC is going to charge a fee. And, no, I am not paying the fee. I’d rather eat the original tickets ($800) than give them another 50% upcharge for credit I may never use.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

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    stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,709

    sda said:

    dino001 said:

    andres3 said:


    I'm convinced a lot of "Sales Managers" are lousy at their jobs, at least at Dealerships that are not setting the world on fire with sales numbers. Then again, maybe my tastes are just different than most other people when it comes to cars, but I find the abundance of 50 shades of gray exteriors with black interiors to be appalling. :disappointed:

    I have the same impression. This is especially visible when you see completely different configurations (color, equipment, trims) in dealerships 20 miles apart and you hear "we order what sells". So let me get it straight - in Tampa white with beige stripper sells and in Sarasota it is grey with grey fully loaded (made up example). I call baloney, it's basically the SM taste, it's what he likes and he thinks others will.

    I’ve also heard that sometimes, like with the car rental companies, the manufacturer will offer a discount if the dealer takes a block of surplus inventory more or less sight unseen. Then the dealer expects the sales staff to move them.

    Back in 1980 I went to my local Dodge place to inquire about an ad for Omnis. The salesman pointed me to a back lot containing over 100 cars (maybe more) and said to take my pick as they were all the same price.

    There was every imaginable combo of colors and options you could imagine, some of them quite bizarre. I picked out one that I could live with. Light grey with red interior.

    Just for kicks I stopped off at a Plymouth dealer on the way to pick the Omni next day. They had maybe 6 Horizons (same car)on the lot. I offered the same price I paid for the Dodge and was broomed right out the door.

    What engine did your Omni have? Was the 2.2 available yet? VW or Peugeot based? I had an 84 Horizon SE with the 2.2, 5 sp, ac. It was a very pleasant car, good power, economical, though didn’t handle as well as my 79 Rabbit.
    I think it was the 1.7 with VW heritage. The 2.2 didn’t appear until the next year. Don’t really remember though. I know it wasn’t a V8.
    I think the 1.6l engine (1st one) was VW, then the 1.7 was Peugout, etc. the 2.2 I believe was Chrysler (maybe via Mitsubishi)

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

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    driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,008
    qbrozen said:

    nyccarguy said:

    I was supposed to fly to Disney with my wife and kids next month. We cancelled our trip to Disney. I cancelled our flights and am receiving a full refund for the miles we used plus the fees we paid. Impressive Delta.

    Delta gave full travel credit for our return trips from Alaska. It is absurd to me that AC is going to charge a fee. And, no, I am not paying the fee. I’d rather eat the original tickets ($800) than give them another 50% upcharge for credit I may never use.
    I believe there is the possibility of a class action lawsuit. IIRC there is an international agreement companies must give a refund in these cases, but, the government is allowing them to do this....doesn't want to pay to bail AC out. Good luck....I hope people get refunds.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

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    ab348ab348 Member Posts: 19,156
    I forgot that Chrysler used a 1.6L Simca engine later on in the Omnirizon beginning at some point in the 1983 model year. Can't imagine why anyone would want one of those. The 1.7 was offered from the beginning until that point and was a VW engine. The 2.2 began to be offered in '81 and was a Chrysler design. If you were buying one of these cars that was the engine to get.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

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    snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,345
    stickguy said:

    sda said:

    dino001 said:

    andres3 said:


    I'm convinced a lot of "Sales Managers" are lousy at their jobs, at least at Dealerships that are not setting the world on fire with sales numbers. Then again, maybe my tastes are just different than most other people when it comes to cars, but I find the abundance of 50 shades of gray exteriors with black interiors to be appalling. :disappointed:

    I have the same impression. This is especially visible when you see completely different configurations (color, equipment, trims) in dealerships 20 miles apart and you hear "we order what sells". So let me get it straight - in Tampa white with beige stripper sells and in Sarasota it is grey with grey fully loaded (made up example). I call baloney, it's basically the SM taste, it's what he likes and he thinks others will.

    I’ve also heard that sometimes, like with the car rental companies, the manufacturer will offer a discount if the dealer takes a block of surplus inventory more or less sight unseen. Then the dealer expects the sales staff to move them.

    Back in 1980 I went to my local Dodge place to inquire about an ad for Omnis. The salesman pointed me to a back lot containing over 100 cars (maybe more) and said to take my pick as they were all the same price.

    There was every imaginable combo of colors and options you could imagine, some of them quite bizarre. I picked out one that I could live with. Light grey with red interior.

    Just for kicks I stopped off at a Plymouth dealer on the way to pick the Omni next day. They had maybe 6 Horizons (same car)on the lot. I offered the same price I paid for the Dodge and was broomed right out the door.

    What engine did your Omni have? Was the 2.2 available yet? VW or Peugeot based? I had an 84 Horizon SE with the 2.2, 5 sp, ac. It was a very pleasant car, good power, economical, though didn’t handle as well as my 79 Rabbit.
    I think it was the 1.7 with VW heritage. The 2.2 didn’t appear until the next year. Don’t really remember though. I know it wasn’t a V8.
    I think the 1.6l engine (1st one) was VW, then the 1.7 was Peugout, etc. the 2.2 I believe was Chrysler (maybe via Mitsubishi)
    The 1.6 was the Simca Poissy engine, the 1.7 was VW.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

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    snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,345
    ab348 said:

    I forgot that Chrysler used a 1.6L Simca engine later on in the Omnirizon beginning at some point in the 1983 model year. Can't imagine why anyone would want one of those. The 1.7 was offered from the beginning until that point and was a VW engine. The 2.2 began to be offered in '81 and was a Chrysler design. If you were buying one of these cars that was the engine to get.

    You beat me to the Simca engine thing. But the 2.2 engine was the one to get. The GLH was a fun version to get.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

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    stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,709

    stickguy said:

    sda said:

    dino001 said:

    andres3 said:


    I'm convinced a lot of "Sales Managers" are lousy at their jobs, at least at Dealerships that are not setting the world on fire with sales numbers. Then again, maybe my tastes are just different than most other people when it comes to cars, but I find the abundance of 50 shades of gray exteriors with black interiors to be appalling. :disappointed:

    I have the same impression. This is especially visible when you see completely different configurations (color, equipment, trims) in dealerships 20 miles apart and you hear "we order what sells". So let me get it straight - in Tampa white with beige stripper sells and in Sarasota it is grey with grey fully loaded (made up example). I call baloney, it's basically the SM taste, it's what he likes and he thinks others will.

    I’ve also heard that sometimes, like with the car rental companies, the manufacturer will offer a discount if the dealer takes a block of surplus inventory more or less sight unseen. Then the dealer expects the sales staff to move them.

    Back in 1980 I went to my local Dodge place to inquire about an ad for Omnis. The salesman pointed me to a back lot containing over 100 cars (maybe more) and said to take my pick as they were all the same price.

    There was every imaginable combo of colors and options you could imagine, some of them quite bizarre. I picked out one that I could live with. Light grey with red interior.

    Just for kicks I stopped off at a Plymouth dealer on the way to pick the Omni next day. They had maybe 6 Horizons (same car)on the lot. I offered the same price I paid for the Dodge and was broomed right out the door.

    What engine did your Omni have? Was the 2.2 available yet? VW or Peugeot based? I had an 84 Horizon SE with the 2.2, 5 sp, ac. It was a very pleasant car, good power, economical, though didn’t handle as well as my 79 Rabbit.
    I think it was the 1.7 with VW heritage. The 2.2 didn’t appear until the next year. Don’t really remember though. I know it wasn’t a V8.
    I think the 1.6l engine (1st one) was VW, then the 1.7 was Peugout, etc. the 2.2 I believe was Chrysler (maybe via Mitsubishi)
    The 1.6 was the Simca Poissy engine, the 1.7 was VW.
    Thanks. I must have reversed them. I thought he VW came first and it started with the 1.6. I will now hang my head in shame.

    My parents had 2. A 1979, that had engine issues. Replaced a few years later, maybe 83, with another, but I think the next engine version. Both either the 1.6 or 1.7. When we got married my wife had an 84 or 85 with the 2.2/auto. Pretty quick for the day, and a beast in the snow.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

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    oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 22,758
    ab348 said:

    I forgot that Chrysler used a 1.6L Simca engine later on in the Omnirizon beginning at some point in the 1983 model year. Can't imagine why anyone would want one of those. The 1.7 was offered from the beginning until that point and was a VW engine. The 2.2 began to be offered in '81 and was a Chrysler design. If you were buying one of these cars that was the engine to get.

    My son had that engine in his 88’ Plymouth Reliant. Kind of fun in a buzzy sort of way. About 95 screaming horses.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

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    stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,709
    Better than the 68 my 1985 Colt had.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

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    ab348ab348 Member Posts: 19,156
    The 1.7 and later 1.6 each had somewhere in the neighborhood of 70hp. the 2.2 was around 100 IIRC.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

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    snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,345
    stickguy said:

    stickguy said:

    sda said:

    dino001 said:

    andres3 said:


    I'm convinced a lot of "Sales Managers" are lousy at their jobs, at least at Dealerships that are not setting the world on fire with sales numbers. Then again, maybe my tastes are just different than most other people when it comes to cars, but I find the abundance of 50 shades of gray exteriors with black interiors to be appalling. :disappointed:

    I have the same impression. This is especially visible when you see completely different configurations (color, equipment, trims) in dealerships 20 miles apart and you hear "we order what sells". So let me get it straight - in Tampa white with beige stripper sells and in Sarasota it is grey with grey fully loaded (made up example). I call baloney, it's basically the SM taste, it's what he likes and he thinks others will.

    I’ve also heard that sometimes, like with the car rental companies, the manufacturer will offer a discount if the dealer takes a block of surplus inventory more or less sight unseen. Then the dealer expects the sales staff to move them.

    Back in 1980 I went to my local Dodge place to inquire about an ad for Omnis. The salesman pointed me to a back lot containing over 100 cars (maybe more) and said to take my pick as they were all the same price.

    There was every imaginable combo of colors and options you could imagine, some of them quite bizarre. I picked out one that I could live with. Light grey with red interior.

    Just for kicks I stopped off at a Plymouth dealer on the way to pick the Omni next day. They had maybe 6 Horizons (same car)on the lot. I offered the same price I paid for the Dodge and was broomed right out the door.

    What engine did your Omni have? Was the 2.2 available yet? VW or Peugeot based? I had an 84 Horizon SE with the 2.2, 5 sp, ac. It was a very pleasant car, good power, economical, though didn’t handle as well as my 79 Rabbit.
    I think it was the 1.7 with VW heritage. The 2.2 didn’t appear until the next year. Don’t really remember though. I know it wasn’t a V8.
    I think the 1.6l engine (1st one) was VW, then the 1.7 was Peugout, etc. the 2.2 I believe was Chrysler (maybe via Mitsubishi)
    The 1.6 was the Simca Poissy engine, the 1.7 was VW.
    Thanks. I must have reversed them. I thought he VW came first and it started with the 1.6. I will now hang my head in shame.

    My parents had 2. A 1979, that had engine issues. Replaced a few years later, maybe 83, with another, but I think the next engine version. Both either the 1.6 or 1.7. When we got married my wife had an 84 or 85 with the 2.2/auto. Pretty quick for the day, and a beast in the snow.
    I had an 85 2.2 with the auto trans until someone turned left in front me, then I replaced it with a GHL version. Loved that car.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

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    abacomikeabacomike Member Posts: 12,258
    nyccarguy said:

    I was supposed to fly to Disney with my wife and kids next month. We cancelled our trip to Disney. I cancelled our flights and am receiving a full refund for the miles we used plus the fees we paid. Impressive Delta.

    I am really surprised Disney and Universal have opened their parks and attractions in Orlando. The operating costs must be humongous with very few visitors entering their facilities. Those are two places I would never go to with this pandemic.

    I pray every day that this virus peters out or that we get an effective vaccine to thwart it in its tracks.🤓

    2021 Genesis G90

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    dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,179


    I’ve also heard that sometimes, like with the car rental companies, the manufacturer will offer a discount if the dealer takes a block of surplus inventory more or less sight unseen. Then the dealer expects the sales staff to move them.

    This is rather unlikely for BMW and Benz, where they do use a system, where the dealer is responsible for the configuration order, within model allotments. They generally don't manufacture vehicles without somebody telling to, but I'm sure dealers are compelled to make certain number of orders regardless whether they think they would sell that number. The only thing is those SM at dealerships are just people with their tastes, prejudices, world view and their vision of market position. One guy may think strippers is a way to go, another may not want "payment buyers" loitering their showroom in large numbers. This can also be the owner as well. Here in Tampa Bay you can really see huge differences in stock trim/option/color profile between BMW dealerships for the same models. All I'm saying there is zero science behind that, it's all SMs "gut feel", prejudice and perhaps some past sales data, but more in self-fulfilling nature rather than actual quest for understanding the market.

    On similar subject, I've always wondered why so many dealerships are such "old school" mindset, when you come in they don't know how to deal with a person that knows a little more about the product and/or has enough information and financial security that they can't be swayed by some silly four squares and "XX per month" pitch. In response I often hear "because it works", "look at our sales, "we have awesome profits, so why change", etc. This may be true, but don't capture number of people turning around and running screaming from those places. Lost opportunity is always very hard to measure, so most people don't even try. Essentially laziness always wins.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

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    driver100driver100 Member Posts: 32,008
    I know when I ordered my 2008 BMW 328 cabriolet I had to make a decision right away if what the salesman said was true, and I tend to believe him.......the dealership was allotted up to only 4 a month. Order asap, and no discount.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

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    carnaughtcarnaught Member Posts: 3,500
    Most BMW dealer stocked cars are white, silver, gray and black with black interiors. So, at least you have a real choice, lol.
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    benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    This sounds promising.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-shareholders/musk-says-tesla-battery-day-shareholder-meet-likely-on-sept-15-idUSKBN23T0CQ

    "Musk says Tesla 'Battery Day', shareholder meet likely on Sept. 15

    The Battery Day will include a tour of the company's cell production system, Musk tweeted, without elaborating. (bit.ly/3fRpawd)

    Tesla and China’s Contemporary Amperex Technology Ltd (300750.SZ) are jointly developing batteries designed to last a million miles of use and enable electric Teslas to sell profitably for the same price or less than a gasoline vehicle, people familiar with the plans have said."
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
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    explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,406
    A battery that lasts a million miles is great, but if it still loses 50% of its' efficiency when cold, for me it's not worth considering.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
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    abacomikeabacomike Member Posts: 12,258
    dino001 said:


    I’ve also heard that sometimes, like with the car rental companies, the manufacturer will offer a discount if the dealer takes a block of surplus inventory more or less sight unseen. Then the dealer expects the sales staff to move them.

    This is rather unlikely for BMW and Benz, where they do use a system, where the dealer is responsible for the configuration order, within model allotments. They generally don't manufacture vehicles without somebody telling to, but I'm sure dealers are compelled to make certain number of orders regardless whether they think they would sell that number. The only thing is those SM at dealerships are just people with their tastes, prejudices, world view and their vision of market position. One guy may think strippers is a way to go, another may not want "payment buyers" loitering their showroom in large numbers. This can also be the owner as well. Here in Tampa Bay you can really see huge differences in stock trim/option/color profile between BMW dealerships for the same models. All I'm saying there is zero science behind that, it's all SMs "gut feel", prejudice and perhaps some past sales data, but more in self-fulfilling nature rather than actual quest for understanding the market.

    On similar subject, I've always wondered why so many dealerships are such "old school" mindset, when you come in they don't know how to deal with a person that knows a little more about the product and/or has enough information and financial security that they can't be swayed by some silly four squares and "XX per month" pitch. In response I often hear "because it works", "look at our sales, "we have awesome profits, so why change", etc. This may be true, but don't capture number of people turning around and running screaming from those places. Lost opportunity is always very hard to measure, so most people don't even try. Essentially laziness always wins.
    When I was in the car business, when a newly revised or new body style vehicle was introduced, the manufacturer would send us a ton of new cars in one or two colors and with minimal options. White with black interiors was a specialty of theirs. Cars I ordered were produced after the initial run of the new model - usually within 3-4 weeks after production started.

    2021 Genesis G90

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    dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,179
    driver100 said:

    I know when I ordered my 2008 BMW 328 cabriolet I had to make a decision right away if what the salesman said was true, and I tend to believe him.......the dealership was allotted up to only 4 a month. Order asap, and no discount.

    You never tested if he'd have changed his mind if you had passed on it. It may be true when it comes to allotments, but they have a system of trading those between each other, if needed. They may need to give up something popular to get it, but they certainly get it. The discount is another issue - this is up to them. Again, the only way to test it would have been saying "no" to their price proposal and walk home. If they don't call afterwards, then you know it was the real price.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

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    dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,179
    carnaught said:

    Most BMW dealer stocked cars are white, silver, gray and black with black interiors. So, at least you have a real choice, lol.

    Pretty much. You get blue and red here once in a long a while, but it is rare. Usually they come with some insane amount of optional equipment running up the price by 20 grand and the upholstery colors and inlays are typically not my first choice, either. I find it very frustrating sometimes - it's either strippers near the base price or totally silly loaded, very rarely I see something with reasonable list of options.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,243
    My dad had a Horizon when I was a little kid. Two tone blue with a blue stripe and blue interior. Not sure about the complete spec, but it was stick, and I think it didn't have AC. He drove the doors off that car, and he loved it - it was really reliable too, I don't remember it having issues, while at the time my mom's old T-Bird was nearing the end of its road and showing it. I recall my dad saying it was the best snow car he ever drove, and it must have been a decent enough performer for what it was - I definitely remember him passing people in it. Probably one of the better choices of that era.



    I had an 85 2.2 with the auto trans until someone turned left in front me, then I replaced it with a GHL version. Loved that car.

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