Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations

stickguy

snakeweasel said:

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:

fintail said:

That caught my eye too, never asked about it. They bought the place when my mom and uncle were teens, so it's not like they were protecting against little kids. Maybe it was a grandma thing, but she wasn't a compulsive cook.

snakeweasel said:

AM I the only one who is concerned that the controls on that stove top are on the wrong side?

You were teens but the stove was built that way to keep the dials away from little kids......though some would climb up there and get at the dials anyway I am sure.

You have no idea how much it bugs me to say this but you are right. :@ However, the design also takes into account that front mounted controls would get bumped constantly when moving pots and pans onto and off of the burners. Also the controls would get splashed more often since the front burners are used more often.

In short, the range top was designed correctly.

jmonroe

Yep as long as you don't care about having to reach over hot plates that might be boiling hot and putting off steam or splattering hot grease all over, or the risk of burns or catching clothing on fire from heating elements.

no different than a modern range with the controls on the back panel.

venture

jmonroe1 said:

snakeweasel said:

jmonroe1 said:

snakeweasel said:

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:

fintail said:

That caught my eye too, never asked about it. They bought the place when my mom and uncle were teens, so it's not like they were protecting against little kids. Maybe it was a grandma thing, but she wasn't a compulsive cook.

snakeweasel said:

AM I the only one who is concerned that the controls on that stove top are on the wrong side?

You were teens but the stove was built that way to keep the dials away from little kids......though some would climb up there and get at the dials anyway I am sure.

You have no idea how much it bugs me to say this but you are right. :@ However, the design also takes into account that front mounted controls would get bumped constantly when moving pots and pans onto and off of the burners. Also the controls would get splashed more often since the front burners are used more often.

In short, the range top was designed correctly.

jmonroe

Yep as long as you don't care about having to reach over hot plates that might be boiling hot and putting off steam or splattering hot grease all over, or the risk of burns or catching clothing on fire from heating elements.

Most people learn not to do what you described. Not too many people put their hands into a fan blade more than once.

jmonroe

You mean people learn not to reach over the cooking food to access the controls in the back? Makes it kind of hard to cook then. Having the controls in the back means that you will have to reach over the heating elements and the cooking food at some point during the cooking process, if not for adjusting the heat then turning it off.

Maybe it’s because I grew up with a range top like in that pic. So we all knew how to use that cook top. It seems that electric ranges have the controls in the back and gas ranges have the controls in the front. I don’t know this for a fact but it seems like with gas since you have an open flame it is easier to catch clothing on fire and get burns by reaching over the open flame.

We have always had electric ranges so we are used to it. The only times we had gas was in the apartment we lived in for two years after we were married and when we bought our second house. Neither Mrs. j or I could get used to gas since we had electric for 20 years in our first house. Therefore, that gas range was replaced within a few months with an electric job.

Interestingly, gas is much more popular than electric today so that is what we install in our flip houses. Wouldn’t even think of installing electric.

Jmonroe

AFAIK electric ranges have the controls in the back, but cooktops have them in the front since there is no back to put the controls in resulting in a low mounting. On a range, the controls are high enough to keep from bursting into flames.

explorerx4

Looking outside, snow flurries. Boo.

driver100

snakeweasel said:

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:

fintail said:

That caught my eye too, never asked about it. They bought the place when my mom and uncle were teens, so it's not like they were protecting against little kids. Maybe it was a grandma thing, but she wasn't a compulsive cook.

snakeweasel said:

AM I the only one who is concerned that the controls on that stove top are on the wrong side?

You were teens but the stove was built that way to keep the dials away from little kids......though some would climb up there and get at the dials anyway I am sure.

You have no idea how much it bugs me to say this but you are right. :@ However, the design also takes into account that front mounted controls would get bumped constantly when moving pots and pans onto and off of the burners. Also the controls would get splashed more often since the front burners are used more often.

In short, the range top was designed correctly.

jmonroe

Yep as long as you don't care about having to reach over hot plates that might be boiling hot and putting off steam or splattering hot grease all over, or the risk of burns or catching clothing on fire from heating elements.

There is a huge wide track to reach the controls at the back without singing your bathrobe.

kyfdx

venture said:

jmonroe1 said:

snakeweasel said:

jmonroe1 said:

snakeweasel said:

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:

fintail said:

That caught my eye too, never asked about it. They bought the place when my mom and uncle were teens, so it's not like they were protecting against little kids. Maybe it was a grandma thing, but she wasn't a compulsive cook.

snakeweasel said:

AM I the only one who is concerned that the controls on that stove top are on the wrong side?

You were teens but the stove was built that way to keep the dials away from little kids......though some would climb up there and get at the dials anyway I am sure.

You have no idea how much it bugs me to say this but you are right. :@ However, the design also takes into account that front mounted controls would get bumped constantly when moving pots and pans onto and off of the burners. Also the controls would get splashed more often since the front burners are used more often.

In short, the range top was designed correctly.

jmonroe

Yep as long as you don't care about having to reach over hot plates that might be boiling hot and putting off steam or splattering hot grease all over, or the risk of burns or catching clothing on fire from heating elements.

Most people learn not to do what you described. Not too many people put their hands into a fan blade more than once.

jmonroe

You mean people learn not to reach over the cooking food to access the controls in the back? Makes it kind of hard to cook then. Having the controls in the back means that you will have to reach over the heating elements and the cooking food at some point during the cooking process, if not for adjusting the heat then turning it off.

Maybe it’s because I grew up with a range top like in that pic. So we all knew how to use that cook top. It seems that electric ranges have the controls in the back and gas ranges have the controls in the front. I don’t know this for a fact but it seems like with gas since you have an open flame it is easier to catch clothing on fire and get burns by reaching over the open flame.

We have always had electric ranges so we are used to it. The only times we had gas was in the apartment we lived in for two years after we were married and when we bought our second house. Neither Mrs. j or I could get used to gas since we had electric for 20 years in our first house. Therefore, that gas range was replaced within a few months with an electric job.

Interestingly, gas is much more popular than electric today so that is what we install in our flip houses. Wouldn’t even think of installing electric.

Jmonroe

AFAIK electric ranges have the controls in the back, but cooktops have them in the front since there is no back to put the controls in resulting in a low mounting. On a range, the controls are high enough to keep from bursting into flames.

Our electric cooktop has the controls down the right side.. Also, downdraft!

tjc78

kyfdx said:

venture said:

jmonroe1 said:

snakeweasel said:

jmonroe1 said:

snakeweasel said:

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:

fintail said:

That caught my eye too, never asked about it. They bought the place when my mom and uncle were teens, so it's not like they were protecting against little kids. Maybe it was a grandma thing, but she wasn't a compulsive cook.

snakeweasel said:

AM I the only one who is concerned that the controls on that stove top are on the wrong side?

You were teens but the stove was built that way to keep the dials away from little kids......though some would climb up there and get at the dials anyway I am sure.

You have no idea how much it bugs me to say this but you are right. :@ However, the design also takes into account that front mounted controls would get bumped constantly when moving pots and pans onto and off of the burners. Also the controls would get splashed more often since the front burners are used more often.

In short, the range top was designed correctly.

jmonroe

Yep as long as you don't care about having to reach over hot plates that might be boiling hot and putting off steam or splattering hot grease all over, or the risk of burns or catching clothing on fire from heating elements.

Most people learn not to do what you described. Not too many people put their hands into a fan blade more than once.

jmonroe

You mean people learn not to reach over the cooking food to access the controls in the back? Makes it kind of hard to cook then. Having the controls in the back means that you will have to reach over the heating elements and the cooking food at some point during the cooking process, if not for adjusting the heat then turning it off.

Maybe it’s because I grew up with a range top like in that pic. So we all knew how to use that cook top. It seems that electric ranges have the controls in the back and gas ranges have the controls in the front. I don’t know this for a fact but it seems like with gas since you have an open flame it is easier to catch clothing on fire and get burns by reaching over the open flame.

We have always had electric ranges so we are used to it. The only times we had gas was in the apartment we lived in for two years after we were married and when we bought our second house. Neither Mrs. j or I could get used to gas since we had electric for 20 years in our first house. Therefore, that gas range was replaced within a few months with an electric job.

Interestingly, gas is much more popular than electric today so that is what we install in our flip houses. Wouldn’t even think of installing electric.

Jmonroe

AFAIK electric ranges have the controls in the back, but cooktops have them in the front since there is no back to put the controls in resulting in a low mounting. On a range, the controls are high enough to keep from bursting into flames.

Our electric cooktop has the controls down the right side.. Also, downdraft!

So does our gas (but no downdraft). I hate electric cooktops, but ever since moving to the new house have come to appreciate an electric oven. I was very confused why it was electric since the house has natural gas. I learned later it was because electric ovens are known to hold more even temperatures.

The PO also had an electric dryer installed instead of gas. That one baffles me completely!

imidazol97

jmonroe1 said:

stickguy said:

JM, probably a dumb question but want to make sure I understand this correctly, but the only difference between a 15 and 20 amp breaker is the point where it will trip (I assume resistance built it), right?

A circuit breaker is designed to trip when the current drawn by the circuit exceeds the rating of the breaker. Resistance is NOT built into the breaker.

The breaker trips due to flexing of a piece of metal in the breaker that gets hot and breaks contact between two contacts within the breaker when the current rating of the breaker is exceeded. Usually by the time you go to the panel to reset the breaker this piece of metal that got hot has cooled sufficiently which allows you to reset the breaker.

Where resistance enters into this is in the circuit. As resistance goes down current goes up. A short circuit is a good example of this. When current goes up more power (watts) are consumed and more heat is produced. So, in the end it’s ultimately the heat that makes the circuit breaker trip.

jmonroe

Circuit breakers have two methods for opening a circuit. Circuit breakers incorporate a magnetic portion as well that reacts quickly to a magnetic field that's high due to a short circuit/high current flow and the magnetic field moves a lever that trips the circuit open.

kyfdx

tjc78 said:

kyfdx said:

venture said:

jmonroe1 said:

snakeweasel said:

jmonroe1 said:

snakeweasel said:

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:

fintail said:

That caught my eye too, never asked about it. They bought the place when my mom and uncle were teens, so it's not like they were protecting against little kids. Maybe it was a grandma thing, but she wasn't a compulsive cook.

snakeweasel said:

AM I the only one who is concerned that the controls on that stove top are on the wrong side?

You were teens but the stove was built that way to keep the dials away from little kids......though some would climb up there and get at the dials anyway I am sure.

You have no idea how much it bugs me to say this but you are right. :@ However, the design also takes into account that front mounted controls would get bumped constantly when moving pots and pans onto and off of the burners. Also the controls would get splashed more often since the front burners are used more often.

In short, the range top was designed correctly.

jmonroe

Yep as long as you don't care about having to reach over hot plates that might be boiling hot and putting off steam or splattering hot grease all over, or the risk of burns or catching clothing on fire from heating elements.

Most people learn not to do what you described. Not too many people put their hands into a fan blade more than once.

jmonroe

You mean people learn not to reach over the cooking food to access the controls in the back? Makes it kind of hard to cook then. Having the controls in the back means that you will have to reach over the heating elements and the cooking food at some point during the cooking process, if not for adjusting the heat then turning it off.

Maybe it’s because I grew up with a range top like in that pic. So we all knew how to use that cook top. It seems that electric ranges have the controls in the back and gas ranges have the controls in the front. I don’t know this for a fact but it seems like with gas since you have an open flame it is easier to catch clothing on fire and get burns by reaching over the open flame.

We have always had electric ranges so we are used to it. The only times we had gas was in the apartment we lived in for two years after we were married and when we bought our second house. Neither Mrs. j or I could get used to gas since we had electric for 20 years in our first house. Therefore, that gas range was replaced within a few months with an electric job.

Interestingly, gas is much more popular than electric today so that is what we install in our flip houses. Wouldn’t even think of installing electric.

Jmonroe

AFAIK electric ranges have the controls in the back, but cooktops have them in the front since there is no back to put the controls in resulting in a low mounting. On a range, the controls are high enough to keep from bursting into flames.

Our electric cooktop has the controls down the right side.. Also, downdraft!

So does our gas (but no downdraft). I hate electric cooktops, but ever since moving to the new house have come to appreciate an electric oven. I was very confused why it was electric since the house has natural gas. I learned later it was because electric ovens are known to hold more even temperatures.

The PO also had an electric dryer installed instead of gas. That one baffles me completely!

I think it's whatever you grow up with.. but, in the case of the gas cooktop, it could have been for looks.

My wife and I have always had electric appliances. Even though we have a gas furnace, water heater and fireplace, all of our appliances are electric.

driver100

kyfdx said:

tjc78 said:

kyfdx said:

venture said:

jmonroe1 said:

snakeweasel said:

jmonroe1 said:

snakeweasel said:

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:

fintail said:

That caught my eye too, never asked about it. They bought the place when my mom and uncle were teens, so it's not like they were protecting against little kids. Maybe it was a grandma thing, but she wasn't a compulsive cook.

snakeweasel said:

AM I the only one who is concerned that the controls on that stove top are on the wrong side?

You were teens but the stove was built that way to keep the dials away from little kids......though some would climb up there and get at the dials anyway I am sure.

You have no idea how much it bugs me to say this but you are right. :@ However, the design also takes into account that front mounted controls would get bumped constantly when moving pots and pans onto and off of the burners. Also the controls would get splashed more often since the front burners are used more often.

In short, the range top was designed correctly.

jmonroe

Yep as long as you don't care about having to reach over hot plates that might be boiling hot and putting off steam or splattering hot grease all over, or the risk of burns or catching clothing on fire from heating elements.

Most people learn not to do what you described. Not too many people put their hands into a fan blade more than once.

jmonroe

You mean people learn not to reach over the cooking food to access the controls in the back? Makes it kind of hard to cook then. Having the controls in the back means that you will have to reach over the heating elements and the cooking food at some point during the cooking process, if not for adjusting the heat then turning it off.

Maybe it’s because I grew up with a range top like in that pic. So we all knew how to use that cook top. It seems that electric ranges have the controls in the back and gas ranges have the controls in the front. I don’t know this for a fact but it seems like with gas since you have an open flame it is easier to catch clothing on fire and get burns by reaching over the open flame.

We have always had electric ranges so we are used to it. The only times we had gas was in the apartment we lived in for two years after we were married and when we bought our second house. Neither Mrs. j or I could get used to gas since we had electric for 20 years in our first house. Therefore, that gas range was replaced within a few months with an electric job.

Interestingly, gas is much more popular than electric today so that is what we install in our flip houses. Wouldn’t even think of installing electric.

Jmonroe

AFAIK electric ranges have the controls in the back, but cooktops have them in the front since there is no back to put the controls in resulting in a low mounting. On a range, the controls are high enough to keep from bursting into flames.

Our electric cooktop has the controls down the right side.. Also, downdraft!

So does our gas (but no downdraft). I hate electric cooktops, but ever since moving to the new house have come to appreciate an electric oven. I was very confused why it was electric since the house has natural gas. I learned later it was because electric ovens are known to hold more even temperatures.

The PO also had an electric dryer installed instead of gas. That one baffles me completely!

My wife and I have always had electric appliances. Even though we have a gas furnace, water heater and fireplace, all of our appliances are electric.

We have the same. Mrs D100 tries to avoid gas because every year houses explode somewhere nearby. One went a few days ago a few miles from here.

jmonroe1

imidazol97 said:

jmonroe1 said:

stickguy said:

JM, probably a dumb question but want to make sure I understand this correctly, but the only difference between a 15 and 20 amp breaker is the point where it will trip (I assume resistance built it), right?

A circuit breaker is designed to trip when the current drawn by the circuit exceeds the rating of the breaker. Resistance is NOT built into the breaker.

The breaker trips due to flexing of a piece of metal in the breaker that gets hot and breaks contact between two contacts within the breaker when the current rating of the breaker is exceeded. Usually by the time you go to the panel to reset the breaker this piece of metal that got hot has cooled sufficiently which allows you to reset the breaker.

Where resistance enters into this is in the circuit. As resistance goes down current goes up. A short circuit is a good example of this. When current goes up more power (watts) are consumed and more heat is produced. So, in the end it’s ultimately the heat that makes the circuit breaker trip.

jmonroe

Circuit breakers have two methods for opening a circuit. Circuit breakers incorporate a magnetic portion as well that reacts quickly to a magnetic field that's high due to a short circuit/high current flow and the magnetic field moves a lever that trips the circuit open.

You are correct but I didn’t want to get into the magnetic feature. But technically the magnetic feature still trips the breaker due to over current which is what I was trying to explain.

jmonroe

driver100

jmonroe1 said:

imidazol97 said:

jmonroe1 said:

stickguy said:

JM, probably a dumb question but want to make sure I understand this correctly, but the only difference between a 15 and 20 amp breaker is the point where it will trip (I assume resistance built it), right?

A circuit breaker is designed to trip when the current drawn by the circuit exceeds the rating of the breaker. Resistance is NOT built into the breaker.

The breaker trips due to flexing of a piece of metal in the breaker that gets hot and breaks contact between two contacts within the breaker when the current rating of the breaker is exceeded. Usually by the time you go to the panel to reset the breaker this piece of metal that got hot has cooled sufficiently which allows you to reset the breaker.

Where resistance enters into this is in the circuit. As resistance goes down current goes up. A short circuit is a good example of this. When current goes up more power (watts) are consumed and more heat is produced. So, in the end it’s ultimately the heat that makes the circuit breaker trip.

jmonroe

Circuit breakers have two methods for opening a circuit. Circuit breakers incorporate a magnetic portion as well that reacts quickly to a magnetic field that's high due to a short circuit/high current flow and the magnetic field moves a lever that trips the circuit open.

You are correct but I didn’t want to get into the magnetic feature. But technically the magnetic feature still trips the breaker due to over current which is what I was trying to explain.

jmonroe

.....and explained it very well, so even I understood it!

graphicguy

jmonroe1 said:

roadburner said:

jmonroe1 said:

graphicguy said:

oldfarmer50 said:

snakeweasel said:

roadburner said:

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

Brought my lightning cable with me to listen to the B&O stereo. B&O should be ashamed of themselves putting their stamp on the Bronco’s stereo. Perhaps because of the Bronco’s design, B&O couldn’t acoustically do what they needed to do. But, for a premium stereo manufacturer, it’s an embarrassment in the Bronco.

Wait, the Baltimore and Ohio Railroad is now making stereos?

You do know that's a cut and paste from graphicguy, I hope. driver is happy with a 4" mono speaker.
Bang & Olufsen is a Danish high end audio manufacturer that unfortunately puts their name on some underwhelming automotive systems.

I know about Bang and Olufsen, my only real experience with them is that they are the speakers on my laptop and I am not overly impressed by them.

That being said my post was a joke, you're supposed to laugh.

Careful, these audiophiles take their sound seriously. It would be interesting to lock them in my cargo van with the blown out staticky speakers and watch their ears explode.

I resemble that remark. Speaking of which, I just finished rehabbing a HEATHKIT Stereo receiver 1970s vintage. New lights, removed old capacitors and replaced with new. Cleaned and lubed all dials an potentiometer. Real wood case that cleaned up nicely with lemon Pledge. Works like new.

Found it at a flea market just north of me. It’s been sitting, staring at me from my closet of unused audio gear I’ve accumulated over the years.

Not sure what I’m going to do with it. Wish HEATHKIT was still in business. I used to love their electronics kits. For the initiated, HEATHKIT was a company who would sell you everything you needed in kit form to assemble audio gear. I would spend days assembling some of their kits when I was a teen. Had many burned fingers/hand from an errant solder drop or mishandled soldering iron.

Back in the 70’s I worked with two guys that built a 25 inch color Heathkit CRT TV. IIRC it was a Zenith design in kit form. I remember it had a pretty nice picture. If I didn’t have a nice 25 inch RCA console color TV, I would have built one too.

jmonroe

I remember that the Heathkit dealers would test each circuit board for you as you completed it so there would hopefully be no issues when the TV was assembled.

How about this:

One of my fellow workers was so afraid of having a board act up he actually tested each resistor and capacitor to, not only see if they were good, but also if they were within the stated tolerance marked on those components. Needless to say my other buddy was watching his TV while this scaredy cat was still testing components. We never did let him forget about that.

jmonroe

I’m not that much of a fuddy-duddy. If the caps and resisters are bulging in any way, look like they’re misformed, or just generally dirty, I replace them with new. If they're relatively accessible, it takes maybe a minute to remove and another minute to solder in a new one. So, if there’s any question at all, I replace.

venture

kyfdx said:

venture said:

jmonroe1 said:

snakeweasel said:

jmonroe1 said:

snakeweasel said:

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:

fintail said:

That caught my eye too, never asked about it. They bought the place when my mom and uncle were teens, so it's not like they were protecting against little kids. Maybe it was a grandma thing, but she wasn't a compulsive cook.

snakeweasel said:

AM I the only one who is concerned that the controls on that stove top are on the wrong side?

You were teens but the stove was built that way to keep the dials away from little kids......though some would climb up there and get at the dials anyway I am sure.

You have no idea how much it bugs me to say this but you are right. :@ However, the design also takes into account that front mounted controls would get bumped constantly when moving pots and pans onto and off of the burners. Also the controls would get splashed more often since the front burners are used more often.

In short, the range top was designed correctly.

jmonroe

Yep as long as you don't care about having to reach over hot plates that might be boiling hot and putting off steam or splattering hot grease all over, or the risk of burns or catching clothing on fire from heating elements.

Most people learn not to do what you described. Not too many people put their hands into a fan blade more than once.

jmonroe

You mean people learn not to reach over the cooking food to access the controls in the back? Makes it kind of hard to cook then. Having the controls in the back means that you will have to reach over the heating elements and the cooking food at some point during the cooking process, if not for adjusting the heat then turning it off.

Maybe it’s because I grew up with a range top like in that pic. So we all knew how to use that cook top. It seems that electric ranges have the controls in the back and gas ranges have the controls in the front. I don’t know this for a fact but it seems like with gas since you have an open flame it is easier to catch clothing on fire and get burns by reaching over the open flame.

We have always had electric ranges so we are used to it. The only times we had gas was in the apartment we lived in for two years after we were married and when we bought our second house. Neither Mrs. j or I could get used to gas since we had electric for 20 years in our first house. Therefore, that gas range was replaced within a few months with an electric job.

Interestingly, gas is much more popular than electric today so that is what we install in our flip houses. Wouldn’t even think of installing electric.

Jmonroe

AFAIK electric ranges have the controls in the back, but cooktops have them in the front since there is no back to put the controls in resulting in a low mounting. On a range, the controls are high enough to keep from bursting into flames.

Our electric cooktop has the controls down the right side.. Also, downdraft!

Yeah. Most do now.

venture

tjc78 said:

kyfdx said:

venture said:

jmonroe1 said:

snakeweasel said:

jmonroe1 said:

snakeweasel said:

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:

fintail said:

That caught my eye too, never asked about it. They bought the place when my mom and uncle were teens, so it's not like they were protecting against little kids. Maybe it was a grandma thing, but she wasn't a compulsive cook.

snakeweasel said:

AM I the only one who is concerned that the controls on that stove top are on the wrong side?

You were teens but the stove was built that way to keep the dials away from little kids......though some would climb up there and get at the dials anyway I am sure.

You have no idea how much it bugs me to say this but you are right. :@ However, the design also takes into account that front mounted controls would get bumped constantly when moving pots and pans onto and off of the burners. Also the controls would get splashed more often since the front burners are used more often.

In short, the range top was designed correctly.

jmonroe

Yep as long as you don't care about having to reach over hot plates that might be boiling hot and putting off steam or splattering hot grease all over, or the risk of burns or catching clothing on fire from heating elements.

Most people learn not to do what you described. Not too many people put their hands into a fan blade more than once.

jmonroe

You mean people learn not to reach over the cooking food to access the controls in the back? Makes it kind of hard to cook then. Having the controls in the back means that you will have to reach over the heating elements and the cooking food at some point during the cooking process, if not for adjusting the heat then turning it off.

Maybe it’s because I grew up with a range top like in that pic. So we all knew how to use that cook top. It seems that electric ranges have the controls in the back and gas ranges have the controls in the front. I don’t know this for a fact but it seems like with gas since you have an open flame it is easier to catch clothing on fire and get burns by reaching over the open flame.

We have always had electric ranges so we are used to it. The only times we had gas was in the apartment we lived in for two years after we were married and when we bought our second house. Neither Mrs. j or I could get used to gas since we had electric for 20 years in our first house. Therefore, that gas range was replaced within a few months with an electric job.

Interestingly, gas is much more popular than electric today so that is what we install in our flip houses. Wouldn’t even think of installing electric.

Jmonroe

AFAIK electric ranges have the controls in the back, but cooktops have them in the front since there is no back to put the controls in resulting in a low mounting. On a range, the controls are high enough to keep from bursting into flames.

Our electric cooktop has the controls down the right side.. Also, downdraft!

So does our gas (but no downdraft). I hate electric cooktops, but ever since moving to the new house have come to appreciate an electric oven. I was very confused why it was electric since the house has natural gas. I learned later it was because electric ovens are known to hold more even temperatures.

The PO also had an electric dryer installed instead of gas. That one baffles me completely!

Electric ovens are best for baking because of what you said - more even temperatures. I guess the hot thing is a gas cooktop and electric oven in your range.

Electric dryer? Baffles me too.

coldinohio

gas + electric= 'dual fuel' ==== $$$$

fintail

I have gas heat and water heater (I think), all else electric. Hydropower helps a little here, with these combined, my combined bill was barely over $50 even in the winter - and this is far from a tropical location. Electric heat seems to be the big money pit, seems people with baseboard can end up with bills in the hundreds.

My grandma's house, with the kitchen I posted above, has oil heat - apparently they still make oil furnaces, as hers was replaced maybe 10-15 years ago. Good when prices are low, maybe not when prices are high, but still worlds better than baseboard, I bet.

ab348

Up here in Nova Scotia not many places have natural gas available. My street does, and when my oil furnace needed replacing in 2006 I went with a high-efficiency gas unit. It was great for the first few years until the local gas supply petered out and the company had to import gas and store it to charge their system. It was still cheaper than oil but not by a whole lot the way it was originally. Most furnaces here are still oil.

Because of the gas issue I have an electric HW heater. I was told that it was the most cost effective for a single occupant like myself versus a gas unit, though that would flip if it was a large family living here. Likewise my stove and clothes dryer are also electric. That is the norm around here. Many rental properties use electric baseboard for heat and you hear horror stories of bills pushing close to $1000/mo in heating season. Fortunately the advent of heat pump technology provides a much cheaper alternative in terms of operating cost, but the up-front cost tends to discourage broad adoption. We have a lot of people here heating with wood and wood pellets.

houdini1

First time to post under this new format. Hope it works. Actually, my first post disappeared. Hope this one sticks.

bwia

Today is earth day. Do your best for the environment by driving less. And if you must drive do it in an electrified vehicle.

sda

Last Sunday my wife backed the Q5 in the driveway so we could unload the groceries. Something caught my eye and I investigated further. There is a nice slice in the right rear tire and the cord was visible. Not sure how long or how that happened but I'm glad I discovered it though I hate replacing tires prematurely. I have two tires to be installed Saturday, same make (Continental) and model as those on the front. Those on the front have 8-9/32, the rears are original with around 4-5/32. The front tires were replaced by the dealer before we bought the Q5.

stickguy

That’s not too bad. Would have been doing it soon anyway, and now they are closer to even all around.

fintail

Looked at the water heater - it's electric. Not sure why I thought otherwise, no flue. Might be a factor in my relatively low utility bills.

My mom lives in a 1920s bungalow that once had some kind of oil heat, but that was removed maybe in the 60s or 70s when the house was renovated, and now has baseboard. Her electric bill is over $200 for more than half the year, and it's not a big house. Was baseboard maybe seen as something modern and good, back when maybe electricity was cheaper? I was looking at the prior listing for a local house I like (sold in 2014 for 226K, can't imagine it bringing under 500K now, gotta love that), custom early 60s build, baseboards throughout. Why?!

Many cheaper apartments here have baseboard, or at best, the Cadet-style wall units, but some better built places have central heating. The first condo I lived in had Cadet heaters, I don't recall the expense being high, but it was a while back now.

driver100

....and I thought discussions about dishwashers was starting to get boring!

explorerx4

@sda,
Mixing a pair new tires with well worn ones is pushing the envelope with AWD vehicles.
Dealer probably figured by the time problems developed, you would be out of warranty.

sda

explorerx4 said:

@sda,
Mixing a pair new tires with well worn ones is pushing the envelope with AWD vehicles.
Dealer probably figured by the time problems developed, you would be out of warranty.

They are on the same axle and the tire model is the same all around. It has been to the Audi dealer for service twice and they only said tires next service and didn't push me to buy now. So hopefully no harm done.

ab348

fintail said:

Looked at the water heater - it's electric. Not sure why I thought otherwise, no flue. Might be a factor in my relatively low utility bills.

My mom lives in a 1920s bungalow that once had some kind of oil heat, but that was removed maybe in the 60s or 70s when the house was renovated, and now has baseboard. Her electric bill is over $200 for more than half the year, and it's not a big house. Was baseboard maybe seen as something modern and good, back when maybe electricity was cheaper? I was looking at the prior listing for a local house I like (sold in 2014 for 226K, can't imagine it bringing under 500K now, gotta love that), custom early 60s build, baseboards throughout. Why?!

Many cheaper apartments here have baseboard, or at best, the Cadet-style wall units, but some better built places have central heating. The first condo I lived in had Cadet heaters, I don't recall the expense being high, but it was a while back now.

Oh, Grasshopper, let me tell you about Gold Medallion Homes...

https://dahp.wa.gov/historic-preservation/historic-buildings/historic-building-survey-and-inventory/live-better-electrically-the-gold-medallion-electric-home-campaign

I remember as a kid seeing the ads on TV for them in the 1960s. Nowadays up here a kw/hr goes for about 16 cents, quite different from the good old days.

fintail

Nice, there we are - before my time. Maybe it made sense when the dams were relatively new and hydropower was as cheap as air. Now it's a burden for the resident.

I see the Somerset neighborhood was mentioned - you probably won't get in there today for under a million.

ab348 said:

Oh, Grasshopper, let me tell you about Gold Medallion Homes...

https://dahp.wa.gov/historic-preservation/historic-buildings/historic-building-survey-and-inventory/live-better-electrically-the-gold-medallion-electric-home-campaign

I remember as a kid seeing the ads on TV for them in the 1960s. Nowadays up here a kw/hr goes for about 16 cents, quite different from the good old days.

abacomike

The Genesis G90 Saga continues, but at least it's getting more and more interesting with every passing day. So, I decided to post the entire saga, as it unfolded, since I bought the Genesis G90.

You all know how I purchased the car and what I paid for it and what they gave me as a trade value for my E450 4MATIC. The problem with the Genesis Connectivity System came to light the second day I owned the car back on March 30th. I tried to contact Genesis through the connectivity button in my car, but I kept getting, "The connection failed, try again later" message on my car's main screen. I also attempted to get in touch with their roadside assistance using the "S.O.S." button. That also failed. I tried it at least 20 times, but to no avail.

I brought the car in and my salesman tried to get it to work, but his attempts failed. He then escorted me to the dealership's "Concierge" who said he knew what the problem was - it's the satellite - and until Genesis fixes the satellite problem, there is nothing we can do. I did not believe him mainly because I know that when you attempt contacting BMW, Mercedes and Audi, it is by picking up a cell tower signal and making a call to their communications center. I assumed Genesis had the same system in their G90 and that there is no direct contact via the satellite to my car - it's all cell tower connectivity. But the dealership's Concierge reiterated to me again that same day by pointing up into the sky and asking me if I knew what was up there. I said I don't see anything. He said it's a satellite that isn't communicating with your car. I asked him if there were other cars having the same problem, and he said yes. I still did not believe him.

I sent 3 emails over the next 4 days (March 31 - April 3) to Genesis Consumer Affairs and they assigned a case number to my car - but I received no response from a human being - only "no-reply" emails. I then called their Consumer Affairs department and finally got through to someone who assisted me. I explained the history behind my inoperative Genesis Connectivity System and he assured me someone would be in contact with me within 5 business days. After 5 business days, I called them again - and was assured I would receive a call from Genesis Corporate within 3 business days.

Two days later, I received a call from Genesis Corporate - an extremely attentive and empathetic gentleman who listened to everything I said and took notes. He assured me that he was in contact with the dealership's Concierge and that they would be working together to solve the problem. About 20 minutes after my call with Genesis Corporate ended, I got a call from the dealership's Concierge. He said that he was wrong in assuming it was a satellite problem and that he had gone ahead and contacted California regarding my car's inability to connect with Genesis Connectivity. He asked me to bring the car in for service the following Monday and I would receive a loaner car. When I got a call from Genesis Corporate the following day to find out if I was contacted by the Concierge to bring my car in, I responded that he had called the day before and he made an appointment for me for the following Monday. I asked the Corporate representative (he's a manager for Genesis USA) if the dealership's Concierge had requested assistance with my car - he responded that he did not receive any communication from the dealership about my case nor did anyone else in his office. It was obvious I was again being lied to by this Concierge - it was my contacts with Genesis Corporate that got things rolling - not the dealership's.

So I brought the car in Monday morning and they gave me a G90 loaner. On Tuesday afternoon of this week, the Concierge calls me and says that they think it's the radio system. So they ordered a radio for the car from Genesis. Yesterday, he called to tell me it was on back-order but they were getting it expedited through Genesis Corporate. Today, I get a call that the earliest a radio would get to the dealership would be May 15th. Needless to say, I was pretty upset, but I said I would think over his proposal to bring back the loaner and take my car back until a new radio is available. The Concierge further stated that he had put a call into Genesis Corporate to get assistance in getting the radio expedited and he would call me this afternoon with an update.

Knowing this Concierge lies through his teeth, I took it upon myself to call the Genesis Corporate Manager (I have his direct cell phone number which he provided me with last week which he answers every time I call him) to get the truth about this messy situation. I just got off the phone with the Genesis Corporate Manager. He said they could not get a new radio until May 15, or longer, but that the engineers in California and in South Korea were working on a "coding" error they discovered after going through the cars data bank which they got from the dealership's technician working on my car. It may not be a bad radio, but bad software which they think they might be able to correct. He would know for sure either tomorrow or next Monday, and he would call me no later than Monday with the information. I asked him if the dealership's Concierge was correct in stating that many cars are having this problem, and he laughed and stated that the only car having this problem is yours, Mike. I then stated that I can no longer trust this Concierge at the dealership.

Before he ended our call this afternoon, he told me that if they have no answers regarding software coding by next Tuesday and the fact that a new radio in the car may not be the solution to this problem, he stated that we may want to replace the car. He told me inventories are quite low on the G90's, and I might have to be flexible with color and interior - I responded that I would be if we could just get this saga over with.

So that's the Saga. They want two more working days for the engineers in Korea and California to try to solve the problem and if that is unsuccessful, waiting until May 15th for a radio that may or may not solve the problem would be fool-hearty. I now have to hope that everything works out as the Corporate Manager foresees. I am quite pleased with his intervention and his problem-solving approach. He seems honest and truly wants to see an end to this as much as I do. That's more than I can say for the dealership's Concierge. Just another b___ll____er trying to b____ll___it a b____ll_____er!!!

explorerx4

@sda,
It the different tire diameters front and rear that can be an issue.
Some systems are more sensitive than others.

explorerx4

@oldfarmer50,
Here's some fodder for you van rides.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXEe2kqiYIM

snakeweasel

That picture is the first I can recall that I have seen the controls in the back. I have seen them on the side but never in the back.

Gas stoves are preferred due to having more control over the heat from the stove. Temperature adjustments on a gas stove are instant but an electric stove has to heat up or cool down with the temperature adjustment. It's also easier to gauge temperatures of a gas stove just by looking.

snakeweasel

stickguy said:

snakeweasel said:

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:

fintail said:

That caught my eye too, never asked about it. They bought the place when my mom and uncle were teens, so it's not like they were protecting against little kids. Maybe it was a grandma thing, but she wasn't a compulsive cook.

snakeweasel said:

AM I the only one who is concerned that the controls on that stove top are on the wrong side?

You were teens but the stove was built that way to keep the dials away from little kids......though some would climb up there and get at the dials anyway I am sure.

You have no idea how much it bugs me to say this but you are right. :@ However, the design also takes into account that front mounted controls would get bumped constantly when moving pots and pans onto and off of the burners. Also the controls would get splashed more often since the front burners are used more often.

In short, the range top was designed correctly.

jmonroe

Yep as long as you don't care about having to reach over hot plates that might be boiling hot and putting off steam or splattering hot grease all over, or the risk of burns or catching clothing on fire from heating elements.

no different than a modern range with the controls on the back panel.

I really cannot recall a range with the controls on the back panel that operate the stove, Usually its operating the oven. Plus on ours those controls are much higher than stove top level.

roadburner

bwia said:

Today is earth day. Do your best for the environment by driving less. And if you must drive do it in an electrified vehicle.

I prefer hybrids- that burn gas AND rubber...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkwPjbMa4lI

snakeweasel

bwia said:

Today is earth day. Do your best for the environment by driving less. And if you must drive do it in an electrified vehicle.

imidazol97

abacomike said:

The Genesis G90 Saga continues, but at least it's getting more and more interesting with every passing day. So, I decided to post the entire saga, as it unfolded, since I bought the Genesis G90.

You all know how I purchased the car and what I paid for it and what they gave me as a trade value for my E450 4MATIC. The problem with the Genesis Connectivity System came to light the second day I owned the car back on March 30th. I tried to contact Genesis through the connectivity button in my car, but I kept getting, "The connection failed, try again later" message on my car's main screen. I also attempted to get in touch with their roadside assistance using the "S.O.S." button. That also failed. I tried it at least 20 times, but to no avail.

I brought the car in and my salesman tried to get it to work, but his attempts failed. He then escorted me to the dealership's "Concierge" who said he knew what the problem was - it's the satellite - and until Genesis fixes the satellite problem, there is nothing we can do. I did not believe him mainly because I know that when you attempt contacting BMW, Mercedes and Audi, it is by picking up a cell tower signal and making a call to their communications center. I assumed Genesis had the same system in their G90 and that there is no direct contact via the satellite to my car - it's all cell tower connectivity. But the dealership's Concierge reiterated to me again that same day by pointing up into the sky and asking me if I knew what was up there. I said I don't see anything. He said it's a satellite that isn't communicating with your car. I asked him if there were other cars having the same problem, and he said yes. I still did not believe him.

I sent 3 emails over the next 4 days (March 31 - April 3) to Genesis Consumer Affairs and they assigned a case number to my car - but I received no response from a human being - only "no-reply" emails. I then called their Consumer Affairs department and finally got through to someone who assisted me. I explained the history behind my inoperative Genesis Connectivity System and he assured me someone would be in contact with me within 5 business days. After 5 business days, I called them again - and was assured I would receive a call from Genesis Corporate within 3 business days.

Two days later, I received a call from Genesis Corporate - an extremely attentive and empathetic gentleman who listened to everything I said and took notes. He assured me that he was in contact with the dealership's Concierge and that they would be working together to solve the problem. About 20 minutes after my call with Genesis Corporate ended, I got a call from the dealership's Concierge. He said that he was wrong in assuming it was a satellite problem and that he had gone ahead and contacted California regarding my car's inability to connect with Genesis Connectivity. He asked me to bring the car in for service the following Monday and I would receive a loaner car. When I got a call from Genesis Corporate the following day to find out if I was contacted by the Concierge to bring my car in, I responded that he had called the day before and he made an appointment for me for the following Monday. I asked the Corporate representative (he's a manager for Genesis USA) if the dealership's Concierge had requested assistance with my car - he responded that he did not receive any communication from the dealership about my case nor did anyone else in his office. It was obvious I was again being lied to by this Concierge - it was my contacts with Genesis Corporate that got things rolling - not the dealership's.

So I brought the car in Monday morning and they gave me a G90 loaner. On Tuesday afternoon of this week, the Concierge calls me and says that they think it's the radio system. So they ordered a radio for the car from Genesis. Yesterday, he called to tell me it was on back-order but they were getting it expedited through Genesis Corporate. Today, I get a call that the earliest a radio would get to the dealership would be May 15th. Needless to say, I was pretty upset, but I said I would think over his proposal to bring back the loaner and take my car back until a new radio is available. The Concierge further stated that he had put a call into Genesis Corporate to get assistance in getting the radio expedited and he would call me this afternoon with an update.

Knowing this Concierge lies through his teeth, I took it upon myself to call the Genesis Corporate Manager (I have his direct cell phone number which he provided me with last week which he answers every time I call him) to get the truth about this messy situation. I just got off the phone with the Genesis Corporate Manager. He said they could not get a new radio until May 15, or longer, but that the engineers in California and in South Korea were working on a "coding" error they discovered after going through the cars data bank which they got from the dealership's technician working on my car. It may not be a bad radio, but bad software which they think they might be able to correct. He would know for sure either tomorrow or next Monday, and he would call me no later than Monday with the information. I asked him if the dealership's Concierge was correct in stating that many cars are having this problem, and he laughed and stated that the only car having this problem is yours, Mike. I then stated that I can no longer trust this Concierge at the dealership.

Before he ended our call this afternoon, he told me that if they have no answers regarding software coding by next Tuesday and the fact that a new radio in the car may not be the solution to this problem, he stated that we may want to replace the car. He told me inventories are quite low on the G90's, and I might have to be flexible with color and interior - I responded that I would be if we could just get this saga over with.

So that's the Saga. They want two more working days for the engineers in Korea and California to try to solve the problem and if that is unsuccessful, waiting until May 15th for a radio that may or may not solve the problem would be fool-hearty. I now have to hope that everything works out as the Corporate Manager foresees. I am quite pleased with his intervention and his problem-solving approach. He seems honest and truly wants to see an end to this as much as I do. That's more than I can say for the dealership's Concierge. Just another b___ll____er trying to b____ll___it a b____ll_____er!!!

I love the story you've given.

Corporate so far seems very consistent with the value and image of the vehicle. It's the handling
of the car at the retailer's end that's still Hyundai (my opinion).

I don't know about you, but my finishing touch to this saga, if there's a replacement vehicle or a software update/hardware replacement, would be to sit down with the owner/general manager of the dealership and tell him how his concierge lied. I'd suggest they need a replacement who has integrity, but probably in different wording.

imidazol97

@graphicguy
I have an AR-29 Heathkit receiver amplifier. Is that the model
of the one you've remanufactured?

snakeweasel

explorerx4 said:

@oldfarmer50,
Here's some fodder for you van rides.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXEe2kqiYIM

Well I looked at one of those wifi maps and checked out my neighborhood. It only showed only one wifi near me and it was located in the middle of the lake.

snakeweasel

roadburner said:

bwia said:

Today is earth day. Do your best for the environment by driving less. And if you must drive do it in an electrified vehicle.

I prefer hybrids- that burn gas AND rubber...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkwPjbMa4lI

Good, Good keep increasing the value of my investment in the rubber industry.

stickguy

Mike, you certainly have adventures no matter what you do. You should write a book! Might become the next Erma Bombeck.

here's an idea. You are already driving around in a G90. Just work out a trade! Or if they can find a comparable new one in the country that you like the colors on, also no harm no foul.

the software issue sounds implausible to me, only because that is loaded the same on all cars. So having a coding error on one car doesn't make sense. A hardware issue of some sort does.

benjaminh

@abacomike : Thanks for sharing your saga. Hope things work out well soon.

sda

fintail said:

Nice, there we are - before my time. Maybe it made sense when the dams were relatively new and hydropower was as cheap as air. Now it's a burden for the resident.

I see the Somerset neighborhood was mentioned - you probably won't get in there today for under a million.

ab348 said:

Oh, Grasshopper, let me tell you about Gold Medallion Homes...

https://dahp.wa.gov/historic-preservation/historic-buildings/historic-building-survey-and-inventory/live-better-electrically-the-gold-medallion-electric-home-campaign

I remember as a kid seeing the ads on TV for them in the 1960s. Nowadays up here a kw/hr goes for about 16 cents, quite different from the good old days.

Our house in New Orleans, 1967 build, had a Gold Medallion badge.

mlevine

Mike I hope this gets resolved soon. With all the electronics in cars today, these situations can be difficult. Could be a sensor that is causing the problem which can be hard to figure out. May be where software updates were not uploaded in the correct order or multiple updates at the same time. I have had this with windows update where I tried to update a few software patches at the same time. Had problems after this and had to go to system restore point and then load updates in chronological order one by one.

oldfarmer50

jmonroe1 said:

Michaell said:

Appliances - have my own story to share. Kitchen has GE appliance all around. They came with the house, which is now 5 years old.

Loaded up the dishwasher yesterday and discovered it had no power. Nada. Checked the main panel and found that the breaker had tripped. Reset it and all is well.

However, this is the third different breaker that has tripped for us in the past few months. First two were GFCI outlets, one in the master bath and the other in the basement - which happens to control the outlets on the front porch and back patio. These outlets both have security cameras attached to them, so when the breaker trips, the cameras stop working.

Had an electrician come out and put in a 20 amp breaker, to replace the 15 amp that was there. So far, no issues with those outlets.

But, I've never had so many issues with the electricity at any of the houses we've owned. Not sure what could be causing this.

I’m surprised no one hasn’t commented on this already.

You should NEVER arbitrarily replace a 15 amp breaker with a 20 amp breaker. This is akin to putting a penny in a fuse box. If you had a 15 amp breaker it was probably because that circuit was wired with #14 gauge copper wire. If somehow the circuit was wired with #12 gauge copper wire (which is good for 20 amps), then the circuit breaker was undersized for the wire by using a 15 amp breaker. This is the safe way to go but why wire for 20 amps then use a 15 amp breaker? This is almost never done. I could tell you when this is acceptable but does anyone really want to know this?

If I were you I’d have a knowledgeable person check to see what wire size is used for the circuit in question. If that electrician oversized the breaker (in this case using a 20 amp breaker when a 15 amp breaker should be used), I’d NEVER use that electrician again.

Now having said all that, if a dishwasher is operating properly it will NEVER pop a 15 amp breaker nor would it even pop a 10 amp breaker for that matter.

So @jmonroe, what are you saying here? I hate to say it but if your dishwasher is popping a good breaker the dishwasher is more than likely going bad. Not to worry, we need a dishwasher story in here again.

jmonroe

I hate to admit it but you make a lot of sense. The other possibility is that there are too many outlets or devices running on that same circuit. We’re the cameras always running on it?

oldfarmer50

explorerx4 said:

@oldfarmer50,
Here's some fodder for you van rides.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXEe2kqiYIM

That sounds interesting but fortunately I didn’t understand a word of it so I’m guessing I’m ok.

driver100

@abacomike Beautifully written, sorry to hear about the problem and it must be very frustrating.
Have you bought a new car and had everything actually work? I don't think in recent history
The satellite story might be true but it sounds like b.s. from somebody who wants to off load the problem.
I'd suggest trying another dealer but if it is a software or actual radio problem - that won't help.
I mentioned a software program with our Audi, then I remembered I bought the 2017 E350 and they realized they didn't install the latest GPS update, so my salesman came to the house and loaded it up. My point being that today's cars are complicated.....could be a simple programing or coding error.
It will be interesting to see if they either figure it out, or get you another car....if they do that I would be very impressed, I doubt anyone would do that.
Other than that, are you loving the new car?

Michaell

driver100 said:

Other than that, are you loving the new car?

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

abacomike

driver100 said:

@abacomike Beautifully written, sorry to hear about the problem and it must be very frustrating.
Have you bought a new car and had everything actually work? I don't think in recent history
The satellite story might be true but it sounds like b.s. from somebody who wants to off load the problem.
I'd suggest trying another dealer but if it is a software or actual radio problem - that won't help.
I mentioned a software program with our Audi, then I remembered I bought the 2017 E350 and they realized they didn't install the latest GPS update, so my salesman came to the house and loaded it up. My point being that today's cars are complicated.....could be a simple programing or coding error.
It will be interesting to see if they either figure it out, or get you another car....if they do that I would be very impressed, I doubt anyone would do that.
Other than that, are you loving the new car?

Yes, driver100, it is so comfortable and quiet and the ride is superb. Best audio system with 17 speakers I have ever experienced in a car. This will all work out one way or another.

cdnpinhead

abacomike said:

The Genesis G90 Saga continues, but at least it's getting more and more interesting with every passing day.

Well, not so much. When people get the most complicated possible vehicles on the planet, this is what results.

And, to top it off, the vehicle gets driven rarely and not far.

Go figure.

ab348

In Mike's case, I think the problems are compounded by the reality that the dealer and their service personnel are used to dealing with Accents, Elantras, Tuscons, etc 95% of the time. They do not have this same level of complexity, nor do the dealer staff have any experience dealing with the Genesis-level tech. They are therefore dependent upon the corporate techs in CA telling them what to do and in what sequence. You also have to figure that since the G90 is still quite new, even those corporate techs probably don't have a whole lot of experience with it. If they are then having to deal with the people in Korea who designed it, then you have another layer of complexity (and possibly language) to battle through.

driver100

cdnpinhead said:

abacomike said:

The Genesis G90 Saga continues, but at least it's getting more and more interesting with every passing day.

Well, not so much. When people get the most complicated possible vehicles on the planet, this is what results.

And, to top it off, the vehicle gets driven rarely and not far.

Go figure.

Yeh.....keep it simple I always say;