Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations

explorerx4

@driver100,
You bought up the topic, so you need to do the research.
In Germany, Benz in considered to be the Old Man brand, real AMG's excepted.

driver100

explorerx4 said:

@driver100,
I wouldn't complain if we were getting our money's worth, but this is like being upside down on a loan.

You mean you loan $nothing....and you can still become upside down on it...that is hard to do.

driver100

ab348 said:

driver100 said:

ab348 said:

But if you like studies from 3 or 4 years ago, here's one which shows that the average Buick buyer was the oldest around at the time, but that the age of Cadillac, M-B and BMW drivers was too close to be significant. Hard to reconcile those numbers with what the CT5 reviewer said.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/globe-wealth/rolls-royce-drivers-are-a-lot-younger-than-you-think/article35539853/

It looks like an interesting article, but like you said, it is 3 years old and the model line up has changed....and a lot of those older Cadillac owners are no longer with us.
I didn't go on it because I'd have to sign up with the Globe and Mail and I already read a local newspaper and the National Post so I don't need more news coming from the G&M.
MB buyers are older and that happens because most people don't have the money to buy luxury cars until later in life. No matter what they say, IMHO that I see mostly older buyers in MBs, maybe a bit younger in BMWs, but I see very few young people driving or buying a Cadillac.

Since you didn't read it I will summarize. In 2017 the average age of Buick owners was 59. But Cadillac, BMW and M-B were all under the same blanket between ages 50 and 52.

What will perhaps surprise you is that the average age of Rolls-Royce buyers was 47, a big drop from what it once was. They attribute that to them being so expensive that they could only be purchased by young and otherwise generally clueless types who made obscene amounts of money in the entertainment, IT and gaming businesses.

Actually, my original point was that Buick owners were the oldest. One of the few charts I found put Buick 2nd, and Cadillac 1st. Maybe the age of the Cadillac buyers has dropped because their oldest drivers aren't around, and the sales are down, but now they are getting a new cohort of younger old drivers

The Rolls Royce thing is a surprise, but like you said, RRs appeal to the new rich...it is a huge status symbol. Young entrepreneurs, young computer geniuses, entertainers, gamblers, sports celebrities......even young people find owning an RR is in. If your young and have the buck$, what else would you get in a sedan?

roadburner

For those who don't follow CCBA, my son finally picked up his car today- a. CPO 2018 330i xDrive with 16,500 miles on it.
And yes, I know that everyone hates black interiors except for me and my family. His salesperson said she’d be happy to go over the features but thought I would probably do a better job(I doubt it). The SXM wasn’t activated but I used my old SXM Dealer app to send a refresh signal and it worked.

driver100

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe1 said:

explorerx4 said:

@driver100,
You keep cherry picking stats. CT5(sedan) is not a big seller for Cadillac, so your single evidence source is very suspect.
Pretty much only old people buy sedans anyway.

Cherry picking? Really? Tell us something we don't know.

jmonroe

Here's another criticizer! Why don't you look up statistics?
btw...he called you an old man...he said only old people buy sedans.
I think people who are youthful buy European Sedans.

I’m not a statistics hound but you know if I became one the info I posted would at least be accurate so there wouldn’t be any need for you in here. Be careful what you wish for before it back fires on you.

jmonroe

Here we go, coulda, woulda, shoulda........he doesn't do it but he tells everyone if he did he would do it better.....I think I have heard this story before.

driver100

roadburner said:

For those who don't follow CCBA, my son finally picked up his car today- a. CPO 2018 330i xDrive with 16,500 miles on it.
And yes, I know that everyone hates black interiors except for me and my family. His salesperson said she’d be happy to go over the features but thought I would probably do a better job(I doubt it). The SXM wasn’t activated but I used my old SXM Dealer app to send a refresh signal and it worked.

looks good....like that color, or as we say in Canada, colour!

fintail

I believe it. I see some new builds being slapped together in ways that makes me wonder how long they will last, and what they will need in 5 years - monuments of plywood, cardboard, and foam detailing.

henryn said:

fintail said:

Similar situation was probably avoided in Seattle:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McGuire_Apartments

PNW west side housing stock is laughably overpriced relative to the quality received by the average buyer - the kind of stuff one would expect in the south, but at thrice the price.


Probably quite a few. Florida has been improving its standards and codes for decades (starting with Andrew, then every bigger hurricane brings more updates), but the enforcement is often clearly lacking. Between rotting Chinese drywall a few years ago entire new developments being built against zoning and periodic construction frenzy (especially in Miami Dade, but other places, too) and general low quality of labor, it's no wonder something like that happens. BTW, Florida is not alone in this, there are plenty of other places with similar problems. I watched a report suggesting that Australia had a streak of serious structural failures and downright collapses of caused by corrupt residential construction practices and hidden design errors that reveal themselves past warranty periods.

I might have mentioned this before, you'll have to pardon me if I'm repeating myself here. They are constructing 2 new houses directly across the street from me. Tall, narrow, 2 houses on one lot with about 18 inches in between. When they poured the concrete for the driveways, I noticed some very definite cheating going on. The forms were setup, and the rebar was placed on pedestals. The city inspector came out, and immediately after he left 4 men jumped out with shovels and started shoveling dirt back into the forms. The forms were (by my estimate) set for a 4 inch slab, and the workers filled them up about halfway with dirt. Which incidentally pretty much covered the rebar. So when the concrete trucks came about 2 hours later, the slab was only 2 inches thick and pretty much no rebar in the slab itself.

Probably saved a couple of thousand on the cost of the concrete. And really makes me wonder just what other shortcuts they took.

fintail

MB is desperately trying to appear youthful now, while BMW has given up on caring about styling, and Audi still appeals to wannabe architects I guess.

explorerx4 said:

@driver100,
You bought up the topic, so you need to do the research.
In Germany, Benz in considered to be the Old Man brand, real AMG's excepted.

sda

roadburner said:

For those who don't follow CCBA, my son finally picked up his car today- a. CPO 2018 330i xDrive with 16,500 miles on it.
And yes, I know that everyone hates black interiors except for me and my family. His salesperson said she’d be happy to go over the features but thought I would probably do a better job(I doubt it). The SXM wasn’t activated but I used my old SXM Dealer app to send a refresh signal and it worked.

I like, a lot. Did he trade the 328?

henryn

roadburner said:

For those who don't follow CCBA, my son finally picked up his car today- a. CPO 2018 330i xDrive with 16,500 miles on it.
And yes, I know that everyone hates black interiors except for me and my family. His salesperson said she’d be happy to go over the features but thought I would probably do a better job(I doubt it). The SXM wasn’t activated but I used my old SXM Dealer app to send a refresh signal and it worked.

Very nice. The interior reminds me quite a bit of a Passat. Which is not an insult, I like the Passat interior. Maybe because they're both German?

roadburner

sda said:

roadburner said:

For those who don't follow CCBA, my son finally picked up his car today- a. CPO 2018 330i xDrive with 16,500 miles on it.
And yes, I know that everyone hates black interiors except for me and my family. His salesperson said she’d be happy to go over the features but thought I would probably do a better job(I doubt it). The SXM wasn’t activated but I used my old SXM Dealer app to send a refresh signal and it worked.

I like, a lot. Did he trade the 328?

No, it's still in NC. He's going to drive it up here and I'm going to sell it for him.

venture

roadburner said:

sda said:

roadburner said:

For those who don't follow CCBA, my son finally picked up his car today- a. CPO 2018 330i xDrive with 16,500 miles on it.
And yes, I know that everyone hates black interiors except for me and my family. His salesperson said she’d be happy to go over the features but thought I would probably do a better job(I doubt it). The SXM wasn’t activated but I used my old SXM Dealer app to send a refresh signal and it worked.

I like, a lot. Did he trade the 328?

No, it's still in NC. He's going to drive it up here and I'm going to sell it for him.

Nice car. You aren't the only one who likes black interiors.

ab348

venture said:

roadburner said:

sda said:

roadburner said:

For those who don't follow CCBA, my son finally picked up his car today- a. CPO 2018 330i xDrive with 16,500 miles on it.
And yes, I know that everyone hates black interiors except for me and my family. His salesperson said she’d be happy to go over the features but thought I would probably do a better job(I doubt it). The SXM wasn’t activated but I used my old SXM Dealer app to send a refresh signal and it worked.

I like, a lot. Did he trade the 328?

No, it's still in NC. He's going to drive it up here and I'm going to sell it for him.

Nice car. You aren't the only one who likes black interiors.

Yeah, there are a lot of twisted people out there.

oldfarmer50

fintail said:

I believe it. I see some new builds being slapped together in ways that makes me wonder how long they will last, and what they will need in 5 years - monuments of plywood, cardboard, and foam detailing.

henryn said:

fintail said:

Similar situation was probably avoided in Seattle:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McGuire_Apartments

PNW west side housing stock is laughably overpriced relative to the quality received by the average buyer - the kind of stuff one would expect in the south, but at thrice the price.


Probably quite a few. Florida has been improving its standards and codes for decades (starting with Andrew, then every bigger hurricane brings more updates), but the enforcement is often clearly lacking. Between rotting Chinese drywall a few years ago entire new developments being built against zoning and periodic construction frenzy (especially in Miami Dade, but other places, too) and general low quality of labor, it's no wonder something like that happens. BTW, Florida is not alone in this, there are plenty of other places with similar problems. I watched a report suggesting that Australia had a streak of serious structural failures and downright collapses of caused by corrupt residential construction practices and hidden design errors that reveal themselves past warranty periods.

I might have mentioned this before, you'll have to pardon me if I'm repeating myself here. They are constructing 2 new houses directly across the street from me. Tall, narrow, 2 houses on one lot with about 18 inches in between. When they poured the concrete for the driveways, I noticed some very definite cheating going on. The forms were setup, and the rebar was placed on pedestals. The city inspector came out, and immediately after he left 4 men jumped out with shovels and started shoveling dirt back into the forms. The forms were (by my estimate) set for a 4 inch slab, and the workers filled them up about halfway with dirt. Which incidentally pretty much covered the rebar. So when the concrete trucks came about 2 hours later, the slab was only 2 inches thick and pretty much no rebar in the slab itself.

Probably saved a couple of thousand on the cost of the concrete. And really makes me wonder just what other shortcuts they took.

Shouldn’t you call the building department and let them know that? I’m thinking of that building collapse in Florida and what cheating went on there.

jmonroe1

roadburner said:

For those who don't follow CCBA, my son finally picked up his car today- a. CPO 2018 330i xDrive with 16,500 miles on it.
And yes, I know that everyone hates black interiors except for me and my family. His salesperson said she’d be happy to go over the features but thought I would probably do a better job(I doubt it). The SXM wasn’t activated but I used my old SXM Dealer app to send a refresh signal and it worked.

Nice looking car but I’m kinda partial to that color so don’t let your head swell er a your son’s head. Can’t imagine a young guy on the prow would have trouble driving that car around the hot spots.

Good luck with it.

jmonroe

Michaell

Congrats to your son, @roadburner!

That interior picture reminds me how much I like the gauge layout. Simple and clean.

snakeweasel

Just to let everyone know we just got back from the Vets and Coby (our dog) is now at peace. It was a difficult thing for us to do but we know that he had 7 years with us and was as well taken care of as he would allow. Thank everyone for all your support.

snakeweasel

About Cadillac being an old persons Car. I really think that pretty much dates back to GM's heyday (up to the late 60's early 70's) where a lot of people were pretty much loyal to one of the big three. So with GM people would often start early in their adult life with Pontiac or Chevy and move up as their earnings increased throughout life going through Buick and Oldsmobile finally ending up with Cadillac later on in life. So your typical Caddy owner was someone who drove GM's all their lives and were at a time in their lives where they could own the cream of the GM Crop.

tjc78

@snakeweasel said:
Just to let everyone know we just got back from the Vets and Coby (our dog) is now at peace. It was a difficult thing for us to do but we know that he had 7 years with us and was as well taken care of as he would allow. Thank everyone for all your support.

My condolences. It’s never easy with a pet as they really do become part of the family.

driver100

snakeweasel said:

About Cadillac being an old persons Car. I really think that pretty much dates back to GM's heyday (up to the late 60's early 70's) where a lot of people were pretty much loyal to one of the big three. So with GM people would often start early in their adult life with Pontiac or Chevy and move up as their earnings increased throughout life going through Buick and Oldsmobile finally ending up with Cadillac later on in life. So your typical Caddy owner was someone who drove GM's all their lives and were at a time in their lives where they could own the cream of the GM Crop.

Luxury cars are generally purchased by older people...it is a time in life when one might have the extra money to buy an expensive cars. But, even up to about 3 years ago, Cadillac owners were the oldest, followed by Buick. That is where the trail ended for me....if anyone knows different I am prepared to listen.

snakeweasel

driver100 said:

snakeweasel said:

About Cadillac being an old persons Car. I really think that pretty much dates back to GM's heyday (up to the late 60's early 70's) where a lot of people were pretty much loyal to one of the big three. So with GM people would often start early in their adult life with Pontiac or Chevy and move up as their earnings increased throughout life going through Buick and Oldsmobile finally ending up with Cadillac later on in life. So your typical Caddy owner was someone who drove GM's all their lives and were at a time in their lives where they could own the cream of the GM Crop.

Luxury cars are generally purchased by older people...it is a time in life when one might have the extra money to buy an expensive cars. But, even up to about 3 years ago, Cadillac owners were the oldest, followed by Buick. That is where the trail ended for me....if anyone knows different I am prepared to listen.

My point was is that luxury cars are generally purchased by people with more money (hence the term luxury). People tend to make more money as they get older. So since older people generally make more money they are more likely to buy a luxury vehicle.

jmonroe1

oldfarmer50 said:

fintail said:

I believe it. I see some new builds being slapped together in ways that makes me wonder how long they will last, and what they will need in 5 years - monuments of plywood, cardboard, and foam detailing.

henryn said:

fintail said:

Similar situation was probably avoided in Seattle:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McGuire_Apartments

PNW west side housing stock is laughably overpriced relative to the quality received by the average buyer - the kind of stuff one would expect in the south, but at thrice the price.


Probably quite a few. Florida has been improving its standards and codes for decades (starting with Andrew, then every bigger hurricane brings more updates), but the enforcement is often clearly lacking. Between rotting Chinese drywall a few years ago entire new developments being built against zoning and periodic construction frenzy (especially in Miami Dade, but other places, too) and general low quality of labor, it's no wonder something like that happens. BTW, Florida is not alone in this, there are plenty of other places with similar problems. I watched a report suggesting that Australia had a streak of serious structural failures and downright collapses of caused by corrupt residential construction practices and hidden design errors that reveal themselves past warranty periods.

I might have mentioned this before, you'll have to pardon me if I'm repeating myself here. They are constructing 2 new houses directly across the street from me. Tall, narrow, 2 houses on one lot with about 18 inches in between. When they poured the concrete for the driveways, I noticed some very definite cheating going on. The forms were setup, and the rebar was placed on pedestals. The city inspector came out, and immediately after he left 4 men jumped out with shovels and started shoveling dirt back into the forms. The forms were (by my estimate) set for a 4 inch slab, and the workers filled them up about halfway with dirt. Which incidentally pretty much covered the rebar. So when the concrete trucks came about 2 hours later, the slab was only 2 inches thick and pretty much no rebar in the slab itself.

Probably saved a couple of thousand on the cost of the concrete. And really makes me wonder just what other shortcuts they took.

Shouldn’t you call the building department and let them know that? I’m thinking of that building collapse in Florida and what cheating went on there.

I’m sure I told this story before but since we’re on the subject of inspections I’ll tell it again:

When my house in SC was built I noticed the sewer line did not look like it had the proper slope of 1/4 inch per foot from where it exited the house to where it tied into the sewer line in the back yard. But looking can often be deceiving so I got out my string level and checked it. Sure enough I was right again (this should not be a surprise to you @driver100, right). Anyway I told my builder about it and he said if I was right the plumbing inspection would prove it. I told him I wanted to be there when the plumbing inspector showed up. He told me the inspector would be notified of this. I’d say maybe a week later I got a call from the inspector at work. He asked if I put a level on the pipe at the tie in point. I told him I used a string level because I knew better than to rely on a simple 2 or 4 foot level when checking runs that long. He said, “good, that’s the right way to do it”. He then told me he’d call to give me a few days notice before he showed up. I met him there on judgement day and he got out his string level and told the plumber he had to dig it out more.

I have no idea why they didn’t dig it out deep enough the first time because the sandy soil down there is very easy to dig. Nothing like digging in the rocky clay soil here in the Burgh area. I even mentioned this to the inspector when we had our phone conversation. Saying it should be down at least another 4 or maybe 6 inches at the tie in point since it was easy digging. He responded that he’d decide what should be done at the time of inspection.

After he informed the plumber to relay the pipe he said, “and I SUGGEST you dig it out another 4 inches at the tie-in point. He then said, “call me when you’re ready for a re-inspection and bring some guys to back-fill it while I’m there”.

The inspections down there (plumbing, electrical, framing, etc.) are so much better than what goes on here in the Burgh area which in my opinion is a farce. This probably explains why the newer construction at the time (1992) in that town was much better than it was around here at the same time.

I have to think that this real enforcement down there was brought about because of some shoddy workmanship and the shenanigans that went along with it before the crackdown.

jmonroe

henryn

oldfarmer50 said:

fintail said:

I believe it. I see some new builds being slapped together in ways that makes me wonder how long they will last, and what they will need in 5 years - monuments of plywood, cardboard, and foam detailing.

henryn said:

fintail said:

Similar situation was probably avoided in Seattle:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McGuire_Apartments

PNW west side housing stock is laughably overpriced relative to the quality received by the average buyer - the kind of stuff one would expect in the south, but at thrice the price.


Probably quite a few. Florida has been improving its standards and codes for decades (starting with Andrew, then every bigger hurricane brings more updates), but the enforcement is often clearly lacking. Between rotting Chinese drywall a few years ago entire new developments being built against zoning and periodic construction frenzy (especially in Miami Dade, but other places, too) and general low quality of labor, it's no wonder something like that happens. BTW, Florida is not alone in this, there are plenty of other places with similar problems. I watched a report suggesting that Australia had a streak of serious structural failures and downright collapses of caused by corrupt residential construction practices and hidden design errors that reveal themselves past warranty periods.

I might have mentioned this before, you'll have to pardon me if I'm repeating myself here. They are constructing 2 new houses directly across the street from me. Tall, narrow, 2 houses on one lot with about 18 inches in between. When they poured the concrete for the driveways, I noticed some very definite cheating going on. The forms were setup, and the rebar was placed on pedestals. The city inspector came out, and immediately after he left 4 men jumped out with shovels and started shoveling dirt back into the forms. The forms were (by my estimate) set for a 4 inch slab, and the workers filled them up about halfway with dirt. Which incidentally pretty much covered the rebar. So when the concrete trucks came about 2 hours later, the slab was only 2 inches thick and pretty much no rebar in the slab itself.

Probably saved a couple of thousand on the cost of the concrete. And really makes me wonder just what other shortcuts they took.

Shouldn’t you call the building department and let them know that? I’m thinking of that building collapse in Florida and what cheating went on there.

----------------end quoted material-----------------

I have noticed over the years that whistle blowers never come out well. Never. If I thought lives were at stake, I would take some action. For a thin driveway? No, I'm not going to stick my neck out.

Michaell

snakeweasel said:

Just to let everyone know we just got back from the Vets and Coby (our dog) is now at peace. It was a difficult thing for us to do but we know that he had 7 years with us and was as well taken care of as he would allow. Thank everyone for all your support.

My condolences.

carnaught

snakeweasel said:

Just to let everyone know we just got back from the Vets and Coby (our dog) is now at peace. It was a difficult thing for us to do but we know that he had 7 years with us and was as well taken care of as he would allow. Thank everyone for all your support.

Your pup is now at the Rainbow Bridge.

https://petheavencemetery.com/the-rainbow-bridge-poem/

roadburner

@tjc78 said:

@snakeweasel said:
Just to let everyone know we just got back from the Vets and Coby (our dog) is now at peace. It was a difficult thing for us to do but we know that he had 7 years with us and was as well taken care of as he would allow. Thank everyone for all your support.

My condolences. It’s never easy with a pet as they really do become part of the family.

Losing a beloved pet is heart wrenching.

fintail

An old German joke term for a MB E-class was "rentnertraum" (pensioner's dream).

Funny how over the past decade or so, MB has been trying to emulate BMW with a grasp at more youthful and sporty image, and BMW has grasped at more luxury. Maybe both brands should just focus on their traditional strengths, but I know Hans in marketing has that boilerplate MBA and wants to use it.

explorerx4 said:

@driver100,
You bought up the topic, so you need to do the research.
In Germany, Benz in considered to be the Old Man brand, real AMG's excepted.

oldfarmer50

tjc78 said:

@snakeweasel said:

Just to let everyone know we just got back from the Vets and Coby (our dog) is now at peace. It was a difficult thing for us to do but we know that he had 7 years with us and was as well taken care of as he would allow. Thank everyone for all your support.

My condolences. It’s never easy with a pet as they really do become part of the family.

Ditto.

jmonroe1

@Snake, it’s going to be ruff for a while but you should have comfort in knowing it was for the best of your dog and your family.

jmonroe

driver100

fintail said:

An old German joke term for a MB E-class was "rentnertraum" (pensioner's dream).

Funny how over the past decade or so, MB has been trying to emulate BMW with a grasp at more youthful and sporty image, and BMW has grasped at more luxury. Maybe both brands should just focus on their traditional strengths, but I know Hans in marketing has that boilerplate MBA and wants to use it.

explorerx4 said:

@driver100,
You bought up the topic, so you need to do the research.
In Germany, Benz in considered to be the Old Man brand, real AMG's excepted.

Smart marketing....cover all the bases. Mercedes needs younger buyers who will move up the chain, therefore the entry level A Class, ads with more modern music and young people having fun in their MB. BMW changes to softer ride, fewer manuals....and goes more upscale.
Good if you can expand your market.

roadburner

Our church hosted a Car Cruise today so I decided to clean up the Club Sport. I started with Griot's Ceramic Wash & Coat using their foam sprayer, followed with Griot's Ceramic 3-in-1 Wax. I used BMW Wheel Cleaner Gel on the wheels and 303 Protectant under the hood. I think it turned our pretty well.

mjfloyd1

@snakeweasel said:
Just to let everyone know we just got back from the Vets and Coby (our dog) is now at peace. It was a difficult thing for us to do but we know that he had 7 years with us and was as well taken care of as he would allow. Thank everyone for all your support.

Sorry for your loss.

We had a Sheltie that had an oral melanoma. We had to have him euthanized when he choked on food one day and refused to eat the next day - and he loved to eat.

We got way too attached to him and have not been able to get a new pet since - and that was 19 years ago…

oldfarmer50

roadburner said:

Our church hosted a Car Cruise today so I decided to clean up the Club Sport. I started with Griot's Ceramic Wash & Coat using their foam sprayer, followed with Griot's Ceramic 3-in-1 Wax. I used BMW Wheel Cleaner Gel on the wheels and 303 Protectant under the hood. I think it turned our pretty well.

Beautiful result but sounds like you spent 50% of the car’s value on cleaning products.

snakeweasel

@roadburner said:
Our church hosted a Car Cruise today so I decided to clean up the Club Sport. I started with Griot's Ceramic Wash & Coat using their foam sprayer, followed with Griot's Ceramic 3-in-1 Wax. I used BMW Wheel Cleaner Gel on the wheels and 303 Protectant under the hood. I think it turned our pretty well.

Nice little red car you have there, but who owns that big one next to it?

henryn

oldfarmer50 said:

roadburner said:

Our church hosted a Car Cruise today so I decided to clean up the Club Sport. I started with Griot's Ceramic Wash & Coat using their foam sprayer, followed with Griot's Ceramic 3-in-1 Wax. I used BMW Wheel Cleaner Gel on the wheels and 303 Protectant under the hood. I think it turned our pretty well.

Beautiful result but sounds like you spent 50% of the car’s value on cleaning products.

I have yet to try the ceramic coating / wax. I did buy a less expensive version from Turtle Wax, but I haven't gotten around to trying it. From what I've read, you need to strip off the old wax first. You can apply wax over the ceramic, but not the other way around.

Now the 303 protectant, I have been using that for years. Good stuff, and not terribly expensive. I've never used it under the hood, you don't need to protect anything under the hood from ultraviolet rays. Armor All costs about 1/3 as much, and shines up better (at least temporarily). On tires and soft tonneau covers, 303 all the way. Lasts longer, provides some ultraviolet protection, worth the extra cost even if it isn't the shiniest.

fintail

They've been doing it forever - a 190E or 318i 35 years ago was the same thing (but drastically more expensive than their 2021 equivalents, due to both Asian competition, and cost of living vs income factors). It's the straying from core strengths that seems misguided, to me, that and IMO the 80s were a high point in styling for both brands.

Funny thing about the prices, a 190E in 1986 was around 30K in those dollars. On debut, a typical W124 300E was around 40K. One can get a decent enough E for 65K today, and a C for maybe mid 40s, and an A for well under 40K. I wish housing had behaved similarly! Even here, hundreds of miles from the metro rat race, a house that was 65K then can be 500K now.

driver100 said:

fintail said:

An old German joke term for a MB E-class was "rentnertraum" (pensioner's dream).

Funny how over the past decade or so, MB has been trying to emulate BMW with a grasp at more youthful and sporty image, and BMW has grasped at more luxury. Maybe both brands should just focus on their traditional strengths, but I know Hans in marketing has that boilerplate MBA and wants to use it.

explorerx4 said:

@driver100,
You bought up the topic, so you need to do the research.
In Germany, Benz in considered to be the Old Man brand, real AMG's excepted.

Smart marketing....cover all the bases. Mercedes needs younger buyers who will move up the chain, therefore the entry level A Class, ads with more modern music and young people having fun in their MB. BMW changes to softer ride, fewer manuals....and goes more upscale.
Good if you can expand your market.

tjc78

@roadburner
Car has aged well. Looks great.

roadburner

@snakeweasel said:

@roadburner said:
Our church hosted a Car Cruise today so I decided to clean up the Club Sport. I started with Griot's Ceramic Wash & Coat using their foam sprayer, followed with Griot's Ceramic 3-in-1 Wax. I used BMW Wheel Cleaner Gel on the wheels and 303 Protectant under the hood. I think it turned our pretty well.

Nice little red car you have there, but who owns that big one next to it?

The little one is a big hit with kids. I let them ride it and they have a ball.

tjc78

A good friend of mine and I rocked out our campground last night. The guy who runs the snack shop wanted a night of entertainment so we offered to do it.

Played lots of 80s and 90s along with some new stuff. Apparently we were a big hit and they were lined up down the street in front of the lake listening to us.

We didn’t take any money but the snack shop owner said food is on him, win win for all.

We ran virtual DJ and Tidal. I had Yamaha 15” DJ speakers and a retired Denon POA-2200 from my theater room. It was loud and clear but I wanted a little more. Filling a large outdoor space is tough.

Highlight of the night was the snack shop owner’s Autistic son and his friends singing along to “Wanted Dead or Alive”.

roadburner

@henryn said:
I have yet to try the ceramic coating / wax. I did buy a less expensive version from Turtle Wax, but I haven't gotten around to trying it. From what I've read, you need to strip off the old wax first. You can apply wax over the ceramic, but not the other way around.

Now the 303 protectant, I have been using that for years. Good stuff, and not terribly expensive. I've never used it under the hood, you don't need to protect anything under the hood from ultraviolet rays. Armor All costs about 1/3 as much, and shines up better (at least temporarily). On tires and soft tonneau covers, 303 all the way. Lasts longer, provides some ultraviolet protection, worth the extra cost even if it isn't the shiniest.

My wife gave me a Griot’s gift certificate so I ordered a Ceramic kit that included the wash, spray wax, spray detailed and microfiber towels. I found the Griot’s foam sprayer at AAP on saIe. I sprayed 303 on a towel and used it to wipe down the underhood plastic. I usually use a Zymol vinyl treatment but I couldn’t find it.
I really need to clean out the garage.

jmonroe1

tjc78 said:

A good friend of mine and I rocked out our campground last night. The guy who runs the snack shop wanted a night of entertainment so we offered to do it.

Played lots of 80s and 90s along with some new stuff. Apparently we were a big hit and they were lined up down the street in front of the lake listening to us.

We didn’t take any money but the snack shop owner said food is on him, win win for all.

We ran virtual DJ and Tidal. I had Yamaha 15” DJ speakers and a retired Denon POA-2200 from my theater room. It was loud and clear but I wanted a little more. Filling a large outdoor space is tough.

Highlight of the night was the snack shop owner’s Autistic son and his friends singing along to “Wanted Dead or Alive”.

Just curious but how much does that snack shop owner charge for cold wieners and warm beer?

jmonroe

jmonroe1

roadburner said:

@henryn said:

I have yet to try the ceramic coating / wax. I did buy a less expensive version from Turtle Wax, but I haven't gotten around to trying it. From what I've read, you need to strip off the old wax first. You can apply wax over the ceramic, but not the other way around.

Now the 303 protectant, I have been using that for years. Good stuff, and not terribly expensive. I've never used it under the hood, you don't need to protect anything under the hood from ultraviolet rays. Armor All costs about 1/3 as much, and shines up better (at least temporarily). On tires and soft tonneau covers, 303 all the way. Lasts longer, provides some ultraviolet protection, worth the extra cost even if it isn't the shiniest.

My wife gave me a Griot’s gift certificate so I ordered a Ceramic kit that included the wash, spray wax, spray detailed and microfiber towels. I found the Griot’s foam sprayer at AAP on saIe. I sprayed 303 on a towel and used it to wipe down the underhood plastic. I usually use a Zymol vinyl treatment but I couldn’t find it.

I really need to clean out the garage.

When you’re done come over and do mine.

jmonroe

bwia

What's this new obsession with men's black wedding bands. I don't know why but I think I like it especially the one picture here. For some reason I never wore a wedding band. In fact, I never had one and made no effort in getting one to my mother-in-law's harrow. The second one pictured is THE SOCRATES BLACK ZIRCONIUM $1,550.00

stickguy

well, at least the 2nd on vaguely resembles a tire. but not a fan of the look. the first one is not weird at least.

stickguy

jmonroe1 said:

tjc78 said:

A good friend of mine and I rocked out our campground last night. The guy who runs the snack shop wanted a night of entertainment so we offered to do it.

Played lots of 80s and 90s along with some new stuff. Apparently we were a big hit and they were lined up down the street in front of the lake listening to us.

We didn’t take any money but the snack shop owner said food is on him, win win for all.

We ran virtual DJ and Tidal. I had Yamaha 15” DJ speakers and a retired Denon POA-2200 from my theater room. It was loud and clear but I wanted a little more. Filling a large outdoor space is tough.

Highlight of the night was the snack shop owner’s Autistic son and his friends singing along to “Wanted Dead or Alive”.

Just curious but how much does that snack shop owner charge for cold wieners and warm beer?

jmonroe

It's NJ. no way he can sell beer. So cold weiners and flat soda.

tjc78

@stickguy said:
It's NJ. no way he can sell beer. So cold weiners and flat soda.

Correct no beer. His food is actually pretty darn good. Think bar food. Wings, cheesesteaks etc. Does good pork roll egg and cheese too for breakfast.

stickguy

we stopped for bagel sandwich for breakfast today. got pork roll for the first time instead of the usual bacon. It was actually quite good.

driver100

jmonroe1 said:

roadburner said:

@henryn said:

I have yet to try the ceramic coating / wax. I did buy a less expensive version from Turtle Wax, but I haven't gotten around to trying it. From what I've read, you need to strip off the old wax first. You can apply wax over the ceramic, but not the other way around.

Now the 303 protectant, I have been using that for years. Good stuff, and not terribly expensive. I've never used it under the hood, you don't need to protect anything under the hood from ultraviolet rays. Armor All costs about 1/3 as much, and shines up better (at least temporarily). On tires and soft tonneau covers, 303 all the way. Lasts longer, provides some ultraviolet protection, worth the extra cost even if it isn't the shiniest.

My wife gave me a Griot’s gift certificate so I ordered a Ceramic kit that included the wash, spray wax, spray detailed and microfiber towels. I found the Griot’s foam sprayer at AAP on saIe. I sprayed 303 on a towel and used it to wipe down the underhood plastic. I usually use a Zymol vinyl treatment but I couldn’t find it.

I really need to clean out the garage.

When you’re done come over and do mine.

jmonroe

What happened....you used to be the King of Waxing?

driver100

stickguy said:

well, at least the 2nd on vaguely resembles a tire. but not a fan of the look. the first one is not weird at least.

I like but now we are onto a totally different topic.....never posted before....wedding bands!

"There is a fifth dimension, beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination. It is an area which we call The Twilight Zone."

qbrozen

@stickguy said:
we stopped for bagel sandwich for breakfast today. got pork roll for the first time instead of the usual bacon. It was actually quite good.

You live in NJ and that is first time for pork roll? Wow