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  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoModerator Posts: 207,960
    When I graduated college in 1985, my first boss happened to be a music major who graduated from the University of Southern California. He introduced me to Traffic and we attended a Steve Winwood concert at the Santa Barbara Bowl.

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    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 208,956
    @graphicguy

    I saw Steve Winwood open for Tom Petty at Riverbend in 2006!

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  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 15,937
    I saw Billy Joel open for the Beach Boys in 1974- and Bob Seger open for KISS in 1976.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2014 M235i; 2009 Cooper Clubman; 1999 Wrangler; 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i
    Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 15,937

    Awhile back I mentioned that we no longer allow our dog free run of the farm- due to his unauthorized seven hour tour of my town. My wife felt bad that he had to sit out on the deck all day so she had a custom awning installed to keep the poor pup comfy…

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2014 M235i; 2009 Cooper Clubman; 1999 Wrangler; 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i
    Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

  • jmonroe1jmonroe1 Pittsburgh areaMember Posts: 4,907

    I saw Billy Joel open for the Beach Boys in 1974- and Bob Seger open for KISS in 1976.

    ————————————————-
    I opened a couple doors today at the flip so that a couple guys could get in to give us quotes for work at the flip. Man, one of those guys hummed a real tune for his work.

    jmonroe
    '15 Genesis just like jmonroe, '18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 20,310

    Awhile back I mentioned that we no longer allow our dog free run of the farm- due to his unauthorized seven hour tour of my town. My wife felt bad that he had to sit out on the deck all day so she had a custom awning installed to keep the poor pup comfy…

    While previously you could just fry? Why no shade for you?

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2004 Chevy Van, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • mjfloyd1mjfloyd1 Member Posts: 2,550

    I’m confused. We drove through Columbus OH and the sign said Ohio State Univ. (no the). WTF???

  • jmonroe1jmonroe1 Pittsburgh areaMember Posts: 4,907
    mjfloyd1 said:

    I’m confused. We drove through Columbus OH and the sign said Ohio State Univ. (no the). WTF???

    ————————————————-
    That addendum sign was stolen 2 months ago and they’re still looking for the thief. They can’t start the football season until it’s found.

    jmonroe
    '15 Genesis just like jmonroe, '18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
  • mjfloyd1mjfloyd1 Member Posts: 2,550

    @jmonroe1 said:
    ————————————————-
    That addendum sign was stolen 2 months ago and they’re still looking for the thief. They can’t start the football season until it’s found.

    jmonroe

    Must have been printed before The trademark 🤣😂

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Member Posts: 26,460
    "The Ohio State University has successfully trademarked the word “THE,” in a victory for the college and its branding that is sure to produce eye rolls from Michigan fans and other rivals.

    "Stating the full name of the school has become a point of pride for Ohio State’s athletes when introducing themselves on television during games. The three-letter article “THE” has also become an important part of the school’s merchandise and apparel. "
    6/23/2022 WSJ
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-ohio-state-university-officially-trademarks-the-word-the-11655926237

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • mjfloyd1mjfloyd1 Member Posts: 2,550

    Maybe it was printed by a The Ohio University alum???

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Member Posts: 26,460
    edited June 25
    I think we've plowed this ground before about "The" being a part of the official name.

    I assume the State of Ohio was short of money for the signs and left "The" off to economize.
    Roads signs also are limited on space. LOL




    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Member Posts: 26,460
    edited June 25


    Ohio Stadium in the middle. Dorm towers on either side. Son lived on 16th floor
    on Lincoln on the right for his first year with 7 other young men sharing an apartment
    like pod.

    The haven't added "the" to Ohio Stadium, yet. The Ohio Stadium. Sounds good.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio_Stadium

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTMember Posts: 17,620
    The 'Shoe' has become the 'Heel' since they enclosed the end. :)
    2020 Ford Explorer XLT
  • sdasda Indian Land, SCMember Posts: 5,825
    edited June 25

    The 'Shoe' has become the 'Heel' since they enclosed the end. :)

    On a similar note when I attended ‘The’ Univ of TN, Neyland Stadium had not yet built up the bleachers on the end zones. I had an Economics professor present a case that they would never build up the end zones as it didn’t make economic sense. Ha! Soon after the end zones were built up to increase capacity.

    2018 VW Passat SE w/tech, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech, 2006 Acura TL w/nav

  • mjfloyd1mjfloyd1 Member Posts: 2,550

    @imidazol97 said:
    I think we've plowed this ground before about "The" being a part of the official name.

    I assume the State of Ohio was short of money for the signs and left "The" off to economize.
    Roads signs also are limited on space. LOL

    Yes I did.

    This is the yanking of the chain

  • jmonroe1jmonroe1 Pittsburgh areaMember Posts: 4,907
    sda said:

    The 'Shoe' has become the 'Heel' since they enclosed the end. :)

    On a similar note when I attended ‘The’ Univ of TN, Neyland Stadium had not yet built up the bleachers on the end zones. I had an Economics professor present a case that they would never build up the end zones as it didn’t make economic sense. Ha! Soon after the end zones were built up to increase capacity.
    ————————————————-
    And that’s why real world economics is learned outside of the classroom.

    jmonroe
    '15 Genesis just like jmonroe, '18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
  • jmonroe1jmonroe1 Pittsburgh areaMember Posts: 4,907
    benjaminh said:

    I'm halfway through my 4500 mile road trip in my TLX. Most of the stops along the way way I'm staying a day or two with family and friends, all of whom I haven't seen in several years. Even with gas at more than $5 a gallon the trip has been great so far. This is a photo of the sunset last night in rural Prescott, Arizona, at the house of a friend I haven't seen for more than 12 years. Yesterday we rode some of her horses on some country trails, which was a treat. The TLX has been a good trip car, as expected. XM radio and audio books have been helpful for the long days. Tomorrow I have another 500+ mile day as I start to head back, stopping next in Taos, NM. Hope all of you are doing well.

    ————————————————-
    C’mon man, you gotta come clean, that’s a painting, right?

    jmonroe
    '15 Genesis just like jmonroe, '18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 46,072
    the TLX was a great road trip car. I do miss mine. If things had worked out differently I could easily have kept that for a very long time. Oh well!

    and even with higher gas prices (which actually dropped about .$25 in a couple of days here) with the MPG that car gets (assume 35 overall) for that long a trip, might pay $600-$650 all together. Compared to plan tickets, that is cheap! Say gas magically was $3.00 instead. You would save maybe $225? for a 2 week (?) trip practically lapping the country, that seems to be pretty small potatoes.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD , 2022 Ford Maverick Lariat Ecoboost FWD.

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTMember Posts: 17,620
    edited June 26
    Once you start stacking passengers, plane tickets can get expensive quickly.
    2020 Ford Explorer XLT
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaMember Posts: 8,246
    edited June 26
    Michaell said:

    tjc78 said:

    Gas prices the way they are certainly makes you appreciate working from home

    Unless you work for Tesla ....

    You'd think, given Elon's demands to be in the office full time "or else", that he'd have some sort of employee program for their cars. If you're gonna force folks to commute, at least give them the option of driving something a bit more eco-friendly.
    Eco friendly? Don't you have to burn coal, oil, or gas to get that electricity to fill all those batteries?

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • tjc78tjc78 South JerseyMember Posts: 13,919

    @explorerx4 said:
    Once you start stacking passengers, plane tickets can get expensive quickly.

    Four of us from Philly to Turks and Caicos was $2500. I thought it was gonna be more.

    2020 Volvo XC90 T6 Momentum / 2019 Volvo S60 T6 Inscription (not for long) / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve (awaiting new windshield before delivery)

  • 28firefighter28firefighter Seattle, WAMember Posts: 8,724

    We’re going to Hawaii next February. To fly nonstop from Seattle would have been $2000 per person round trip.

    We’re flying through LA for $600/person…

    2022 Tesla Model Y Performance, 2022 Hyundai Elantra N
  • jmonroe1jmonroe1 Pittsburgh areaMember Posts: 4,907

    @houdini1 said:
    Eco friendly? Don't you have to burn coal, oil, or gas to get that electricity to fill all those batteries?

    ———————————————-
    I think he was talking about doing it wirelessly. :/

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis just like jmonroe, '18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 208,956

    We’re going to Hawaii next February. To fly nonstop from Seattle would have been $2000 per person round trip.

    We’re flying through LA for $600/person…

    When planning our Hawaii trip in 2020 (which we didn't get to take), I was routing through Seattle. But, in planning the 2022 trip, I gave that up, rather quickly. SLC on the way out, and LAX on the way back. (in September)

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  • tjc78tjc78 South JerseyMember Posts: 13,919

    @28firefighter said:
    We’re going to Hawaii next February. To fly nonstop from Seattle would have been $2000 per person round trip.

    We’re flying through LA for $600/person…

    It was a little cheaper out of NYC but not enough to justify the distance.

    In your case, well worth it!

    Airfares are so all over the map. Stumbled upon a video where they were talking about how it can be cheaper to fly certain places by selecting a flight where the connection is the place you want to be. Then you abandon your connection. Apparently airlines can ban you for this practice.

    2020 Volvo XC90 T6 Momentum / 2019 Volvo S60 T6 Inscription (not for long) / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve (awaiting new windshield before delivery)

  • jmonroe1jmonroe1 Pittsburgh areaMember Posts: 4,907

    @tjc78 said:

    @28firefighter said:
    We’re going to Hawaii next February. To fly nonstop from Seattle would have been $2000 per person round trip.

    We’re flying through LA for $600/person…

    It was a little cheaper out of NYC but not enough to justify the distance.

    In your case, well worth it!

    Airfares are so all over the map. Stumbled upon a video where they were talking about how it can be cheaper to fly certain places by selecting a flight where the connection is the place you want to be. Then you abandon your connection. Apparently airlines can ban you for this practice.

    ————————————————-
    Wouldn’t that only work if you DIDN’T check baggage?

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis just like jmonroe, '18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
  • tjc78tjc78 South JerseyMember Posts: 13,919
    edited June 26

    @jmonroe1 said:

    @tjc78 said:

    @28firefighter said:
    We’re going to Hawaii next February. To fly nonstop from Seattle would have been $2000 per person round trip.

    We’re flying through LA for $600/person…

    It was a little cheaper out of NYC but not enough to justify the distance.

    In your case, well worth it!

    Airfares are so all over the map. Stumbled upon a video where they were talking about how it can be cheaper to fly certain places by selecting a flight where the connection is the place you want to be. Then you abandon your connection. Apparently airlines can ban you for this practice.

    ————————————————-
    Wouldn’t that only work if you DIDN’T check baggage?

    jmonroe

    Correct and one way flights only

    It’s called “hidden city”. Skiplagged is one website that specializes in it.

    2020 Volvo XC90 T6 Momentum / 2019 Volvo S60 T6 Inscription (not for long) / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve (awaiting new windshield before delivery)

  • pensfan83pensfan83 PennsylvaniaMember Posts: 2,280

    @tjc78 said:

    @explorerx4 said:
    Once you start stacking passengers, plane tickets can get expensive quickly.

    Four of us from Philly to Turks and Caicos was $2500. I thought it was gonna be more.

    We're paying only roughly 20% less then that to fly a family of four to LA ($1,900).

    1997 Honda Prelude Base - 2020 Acura RDX A-Spec SH-AWD - 2019 Toyota Tacoma TRD Off Road DC - 2006 BMW 330Ci ZHP
  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moMember Posts: 30,526
    jmonroe1 said:

    @tjc78 said:

    @28firefighter said:

    We’re going to Hawaii next February. To fly nonstop from Seattle would have been $2000 per person round trip.

    We’re flying through LA for $600/person…

    It was a little cheaper out of NYC but not enough to justify the distance.

    In your case, well worth it!

    Airfares are so all over the map. Stumbled upon a video where they were talking about how it can be cheaper to fly certain places by selecting a flight where the connection is the place you want to be. Then you abandon your connection. Apparently airlines can ban you for this practice.

    ————————————————-

    Wouldn’t that only work if you DIDN’T check baggage?

    jmonroe


    Unless you want your baggage to go on to the next stop.

    Like the guy who goes up to the ticket desks and says I am flying to San Francisco but I want my luggage to go to Hawaii. And the ticket lady says we can't do that sir. And he says, why not, you did it for me last year?

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Member Posts: 18,656
    tjc78 said:

    @28firefighter said:

    We’re going to Hawaii next February. To fly nonstop from Seattle would have been $2000 per person round trip.

    We’re flying through LA for $600/person…

    It was a little cheaper out of NYC but not enough to justify the distance.

    In your case, well worth it!

    Airfares are so all over the map. Stumbled upon a video where they were talking about how it can be cheaper to fly certain places by selecting a flight where the connection is the place you want to be. Then you abandon your connection. Apparently airlines can ban you for this practice.


    The thing is that each starting point/destination combination is a different market, that would result in different pricing like you mentioned above. However in the above situation any checked baggage will go to the destination on the ticket. Back in the 80's I had a boss that went to D.C. monthly. A ticket for a flight from Denver to D.C. with a stop over in Chicago was cheaper than going from Chicago to D.C. on the same flight. So he would get the Denver to D.C. flight and picked up the plane in Chicago. Can't do that any more.

    You have the same stuff with trains too.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 46,072
    all about supply and demand. Same with the rental trucks. I stopped at the Uhaul place Sunday to get some packing supplies and boxes and was chatting with the lady working there. She confirmed what I suspected in that they priced by region and it was based on how many going to or from. NJ is considered in the NE so a net leaving state (though going to another one, so should not really matter!) but Delaware is in the south. Since that is an area that has more trucks heading in you get a break for taking one back out to where they need them.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD , 2022 Ford Maverick Lariat Ecoboost FWD.

  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaMember Posts: 17,119
    Speaking of airline shenanigans you can’t do any longer (I’m amazed you could ever get away with this one): back in 1980 my first job was with a dental supply company here that was always on the edge of going broke. To make matters worse the owner/manager decided to open a branch in Toronto. From time to time a Telex would arrive in our office here from the Toronto manager looking for products we had in stock that he was lacking. Back then before the days of reasonably priced overnight air freight, the boss found a dishonest way of filling the Toronto order.

    He would buy an airline ticket to Toronto, fill a suitcase with the items Toronto wanted, drive to the airport, check in at the counter and check his bag. The bag would go to Toronto while he stayed behind. After the flight departed he would claim he missed the flight and get his ticket refunded. The Toronto manager would get the flight info, go to the Toronto airport and grab the company suitcase off the baggage carousel. What a company that was. 😒

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • ventureventure Central PAMember Posts: 2,353
    houdini1 said:

    Michaell said:

    tjc78 said:

    Gas prices the way they are certainly makes you appreciate working from home

    Unless you work for Tesla ....

    You'd think, given Elon's demands to be in the office full time "or else", that he'd have some sort of employee program for their cars. If you're gonna force folks to commute, at least give them the option of driving something a bit more eco-friendly.
    Eco friendly? Don't you have to burn coal, oil, or gas to get that electricity to fill all those batteries?

    2020 Ascent Limited, 2020 Legacy Touring XT

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Member Posts: 18,656
    ab348 said:

    Speaking of airline shenanigans you can’t do any longer (I’m amazed you could ever get away with this one): back in 1980 my first job was with a dental supply company here that was always on the edge of going broke. To make matters worse the owner/manager decided to open a branch in Toronto. From time to time a Telex would arrive in our office here from the Toronto manager looking for products we had in stock that he was lacking. Back then before the days of reasonably priced overnight air freight, the boss found a dishonest way of filling the Toronto order.

    He would buy an airline ticket to Toronto, fill a suitcase with the items Toronto wanted, drive to the airport, check in at the counter and check his bag. The bag would go to Toronto while he stayed behind. After the flight departed he would claim he missed the flight and get his ticket refunded. The Toronto manager would get the flight info, go to the Toronto airport and grab the company suitcase off the baggage carousel. What a company that was. 😒

    If you tried that today they would stop the flight, take the luggage off the plane before letting it go.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 46,072
    well, cute cartoon, but I highly doubt you are finding many power plants spewing out black smoke these days.

    I have seen studies that show that emissions from producing electricity are considerably lower than an ICE burning gas. And I can't recall ever seeing the anti-EV crowd including all the emissions from the gasoline supply chain too. ships and trucks transporting crude. all the pollution generated by refineries. diesel emissions from the tanker trucks delivering it. whatever fumes escape during the pumping process. all that stuff.

    plus ever ICE generates that. a reasonable % of electricity in the country (even more in others) comes from sustainable sources. Including the many EV people with home solar.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD , 2022 Ford Maverick Lariat Ecoboost FWD.

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moMember Posts: 30,526
    jmonroe1 said:

    benjaminh said:

    I'm halfway through my 4500 mile road trip in my TLX. Most of the stops along the way way I'm staying a day or two with family and friends, all of whom I haven't seen in several years. Even with gas at more than $5 a gallon the trip has been great so far. This is a photo of the sunset last night in rural Prescott, Arizona, at the house of a friend I haven't seen for more than 12 years. Yesterday we rode some of her horses on some country trails, which was a treat. The TLX has been a good trip car, as expected. XM radio and audio books have been helpful for the long days. Tomorrow I have another 500+ mile day as I start to head back, stopping next in Taos, NM. Hope all of you are doing well.

    ————————————————-
    C’mon man, you gotta come clean, that’s a painting, right?

    jmonroe
    Definitely Photoshoped! Too perfect to be real.

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moMember Posts: 30,526

    ab348 said:

    Speaking of airline shenanigans you can’t do any longer (I’m amazed you could ever get away with this one): back in 1980 my first job was with a dental supply company here that was always on the edge of going broke. To make matters worse the owner/manager decided to open a branch in Toronto. From time to time a Telex would arrive in our office here from the Toronto manager looking for products we had in stock that he was lacking. Back then before the days of reasonably priced overnight air freight, the boss found a dishonest way of filling the Toronto order.

    He would buy an airline ticket to Toronto, fill a suitcase with the items Toronto wanted, drive to the airport, check in at the counter and check his bag. The bag would go to Toronto while he stayed behind. After the flight departed he would claim he missed the flight and get his ticket refunded. The Toronto manager would get the flight info, go to the Toronto airport and grab the company suitcase off the baggage carousel. What a company that was. 😒

    If you tried that today they would stop the flight, take the luggage off the plane before letting it go.
    But clever at the time. :p

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • bwiabwia Greater BostonMember Posts: 2,912
    houdini1 said:

    Michaell said:

    tjc78 said:

    Gas prices the way they are certainly makes you appreciate working from home

    Unless you work for Tesla ....

    You'd think, given Elon's demands to be in the office full time "or else", that he'd have some sort of employee program for their cars. If you're gonna force folks to commute, at least give them the option of driving something a bit more eco-friendly.
    Eco friendly? Don't you have to burn coal, oil, or gas to get that electricity to fill all those batteries?
    No not really, major renewable sources of energy include hydro, wind, solar, and geothermal.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTMember Posts: 17,620
    Also wood pellets.
    2020 Ford Explorer XLT
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 208,956

    Also wood pellets.

    lol. I don't think those are eco-friendly..

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  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTMember Posts: 17,620
    Considered sustainable, though. :#
    2020 Ford Explorer XLT
  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moMember Posts: 30,526

    Considered sustainable, though. :#

    Doesn't wood come from trees? :(

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 46,072
    Yes but you can plant a replacement tree. Try that with oil.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD , 2022 Ford Maverick Lariat Ecoboost FWD.

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 208,956
    driver100 said:

    Considered sustainable, though. :#

    Doesn't wood come from trees? :(
    Burning wood is about the worst thing for the environment. Yes, sustainable, but not eco-friendly.

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  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaMember Posts: 8,246
    stickguy said:

    well, cute cartoon, but I highly doubt you are finding many power plants spewing out black smoke these days.

    I have seen studies that show that emissions from producing electricity are considerably lower than an ICE burning gas. And I can't recall ever seeing the anti-EV crowd including all the emissions from the gasoline supply chain too. ships and trucks transporting crude. all the pollution generated by refineries. diesel emissions from the tanker trucks delivering it. whatever fumes escape during the pumping process. all that stuff.

    plus ever ICE generates that. a reasonable % of electricity in the country (even more in others) comes from sustainable sources. Including the many EV people with home solar.

    A typical EV battery weights 1000 pounds. Over 500,000 pounds of the earths crust has to be mined to produce just one of those 1,000 pound batteries. Literally mountains have to be destroyed. Plus most of the mining is in poor 3rd world countries that use slave and child labor to do all this mining. This side of EV costs are hardy ever mentioned. All this mining does a lot more damage than oil drilling.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaMember Posts: 8,246
    bwia said:

    houdini1 said:

    Michaell said:

    tjc78 said:

    Gas prices the way they are certainly makes you appreciate working from home

    Unless you work for Tesla ....

    You'd think, given Elon's demands to be in the office full time "or else", that he'd have some sort of employee program for their cars. If you're gonna force folks to commute, at least give them the option of driving something a bit more eco-friendly.
    Eco friendly? Don't you have to burn coal, oil, or gas to get that electricity to fill all those batteries?
    No not really, major renewable sources of energy include hydro, wind, solar, and geothermal.
    Yes, but all those sources of energy together add up to only about 10% of the total energy produced.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLMember Posts: 6,062
    houdini1 said:


    Yes, but all those sources of energy together add up to only about 10% of the total energy produced.

    Not to mention that facilities harvesting it aren't so awesome and wholesome. One time I learned there is one way to kill condor legally in the US - build wind turbine near its nesting sites. :(

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

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