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  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLMember Posts: 6,060
    kyfdx said:

    driver100 said:

    Considered sustainable, though. :#

    Doesn't wood come from trees? :(
    Burning wood is about the worst thing for the environment. Yes, sustainable, but not eco-friendly.
    Exactly - one way to make Earth cleaner is to provide reliable power and heat source in Africa and Asia. Coal, natural gas, oil are all cleaner than wood. Wood is fun for recreation in small quantities (like afternoon grill, or camping cooking), but is awful as an primary heat source for families. Single family homes are one of the worst sources of smog in in Poland during winter, because people burn whatever is cheapest in their furnaces, mostly junk wood items or lowest quality coal. The worst winter smog is in historical quarters of large cities and in "resort" towns in mountain valleys. It lingers there for days at a time.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moMember Posts: 30,505
    edited June 27
    kyfdx said:

    driver100 said:

    Considered sustainable, though. :#

    Doesn't wood come from trees? :(
    Burning wood is about the worst thing for the environment. Yes, sustainable, but not eco-friendly.
    I think we need trees to convert carbon dioxide into oxygen or we could have more problems, like not breathing.

    What about the cost and the waste when getting rid of old batteries.

    Electricity costs about 4X as much in England, how will that save money?

    And people park outdoors a lot, and most of those on the street. Very few have a garage or even driveway. How ill they charge up?

    Questions. Questions. Questions!

    2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250

  • jmonroe1jmonroe1 Pittsburgh areaMember Posts: 4,891

    @kyfdx said:
    Burning wood is about the worst thing for the environment. Yes, sustainable, but not eco-friendly.

    ————————————————-
    That’s what I’ve heard also. So why does Mother Nature continue to allow lightning strikes that cause forest fires that harm our planet? Does Mother Nature think that man can clean up all of her sins?

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis just like jmonroe, '18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 46,065
    all reasons to support research on new, less invasive battery tech!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD , 2022 Ford Maverick Lariat Ecoboost FWD.

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLMember Posts: 6,060
    There is a difference between supporting the research (I'm all for) and acting like it's all done already, so we can ban ICE cars, coal based power plants and build inefficient and wind/solar farms on industrial scale without honest assessment of their impact on the environment, just because it makes us feel better and superior about "doing something". That's jumping to the pool without checking if there is water.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLMember Posts: 6,060
    edited June 27
    jmonroe1 said:

    @kyfdx said:

    Burning wood is about the worst thing for the environment. Yes, sustainable, but not eco-friendly.

    ————————————————-

    That’s what I’ve heard also. So why does Mother Nature continue to allow lightning strikes that cause forest fires that harm our planet? Does Mother Nature think that man can clean up all of her sins?

    jmonroe


    The answer is scale. Mother nature - lightning strike here or there, once in a while. Human - furnaces in every house, every day. I think there is a difference. BTW, wood's harm is not necessarily more CO2, it's everything else that is burnt with it. Just smell a campfire. "Aromatic" hydrocarbons does not mean perfumes. It means smog, cancer, asthma.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLMember Posts: 6,060
    driver100 said:


    Questions. Questions. Questions!

    Small details, like whole energy efficiency calculus, or disposal, or lack of base power are nothing, when one can say they do something for the environment and it makes them feel superior. During revolution, those asking questions get hung or guillotined. ;)

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • jmonroe1jmonroe1 Pittsburgh areaMember Posts: 4,891

    @dino001 said:
    Small details, like whole energy efficiency calculus, or disposal, or lack of base power are nothing, when one can say they do something for the environment and it makes them feel superior. During revolution, those asking questions get hung or guillotined. ;)

    ————————————————
    Or worse. :'(

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis just like jmonroe, '18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaMember Posts: 17,094
    houdini1 said:


    A typical EV battery weights 1000 pounds. Over 500,000 pounds of the earths crust has to be mined to produce just one of those 1,000 pound batteries. Literally mountains have to be destroyed. Plus most of the mining is in poor 3rd world countries that use slave and child labor to do all this mining. This side of EV costs are hardy ever mentioned. All this mining does a lot more damage than oil drilling.

    Our city council here are the masters of virtue signaling. They have banished a statue of, and any reference to, the British general who has long been considered the founder of our city because a few years ago, a group of activists claimed he murdered some natives (who attacked his settlement and murdered some of his people, but shhh) back in the first half of the 1700s and was therefore a Bad Person. More recently they have been using the obscure native language which most people cannot even pronounce, much less understand, to rename all sorts of things (including the upcoming Canada Day holiday, shamefully), and all their official meetings now include a statement at the start about how they acknowledge they are on unceded native land. All they need now is to make hair shirts the official city apparel.

    Their most recent move is to order 60 fully electric buses at over $1 million apiece. One can only imagine how many of those 1000 pound batteries one of those requires. I think I'll save your post just in case my councillor gets too righteous about that. He is known locally as "Bicycle Sam" because he is all about those bike lanes (which almost never seem to see much use) at the expense of motorists and loves to portray his save-the-world initiatives as "the right thing to do" without any other justification.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • pensfan83pensfan83 PennsylvaniaMember Posts: 2,280
    edited June 27
    The former mayor of the City of Pittsburgh was quite fond of bike lane, which never seem to see the use that would warrant narrowing streets in an already constricted-by-geography Downtown area. I'm more likely to get clipped by a cyclist taking short cuts on sidewalks or through a green space then if I were to walk in a bike lane for several city blocks. And let's not even start on the e-scooters that are literally dumped all over the city instead of being put back into their corrals.
    1997 Honda Prelude Base - 2020 Acura RDX A-Spec SH-AWD - 2019 Toyota Tacoma TRD Off Road DC - 2006 BMW 330Ci ZHP
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 46,065

    He does a good job explaining stuff like this.

    And nobody is banning ICE anywhere soon. Or shutting down every carbon based power plant. Moving toward something is not going all or nothing.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD , 2022 Ford Maverick Lariat Ecoboost FWD.

  • andres3andres3 Southern CAMember Posts: 13,198
    edited June 27
    What if you are just forced to ride your exercise bike in the evening and night to charge your car for the next day? You kill 2 birds with one stone; exercise and free charging for your automobile. :wink:

    OH wait... now we have to talk about how much drinking water is used up, and methane produced from the cattle that gave you the beef in your diet to power your calorie burning.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • sdasda Indian Land, SCMember Posts: 5,810
    pensfan83 said:

    The former mayor of the City of Pittsburgh was quite fond of bike lane, which never seem to see the use that would warrant narrowing streets in an already constricted-by-geography Downtown area. I'm more likely to get clipped by a cyclist taking short cuts on sidewalks or through a green space then if I were to walk in a bike lane for several city blocks. And let's not even start on the e-scooters that are literally dumped all over the city instead of being put back into their corrals.

    I hate those e-scooters. I can’t tell you how many near misses I've had with one almost hitting me. I need review mirrors. They are cool and look fun and purposeful but don’t run me down!

    2018 VW Passat SE w/tech, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech, 2006 Acura TL w/nav

  • andres3andres3 Southern CAMember Posts: 13,198
    The Police ineptitude displayed in various areas makes me upset. I suppose I should focus on the improvements, the CHP seems to have WAY BETTER discretion in recent years, after all, I haven't been ticketed in years!!! Yes, Years with an S.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Member Posts: 18,645
    houdini1 said:

    stickguy said:

    well, cute cartoon, but I highly doubt you are finding many power plants spewing out black smoke these days.

    I have seen studies that show that emissions from producing electricity are considerably lower than an ICE burning gas. And I can't recall ever seeing the anti-EV crowd including all the emissions from the gasoline supply chain too. ships and trucks transporting crude. all the pollution generated by refineries. diesel emissions from the tanker trucks delivering it. whatever fumes escape during the pumping process. all that stuff.

    plus ever ICE generates that. a reasonable % of electricity in the country (even more in others) comes from sustainable sources. Including the many EV people with home solar.

    A typical EV battery weights 1000 pounds. Over 500,000 pounds of the earths crust has to be mined to produce just one of those 1,000 pound batteries. Literally mountains have to be destroyed. Plus most of the mining is in poor 3rd world countries that use slave and child labor to do all this mining. This side of EV costs are hardy ever mentioned. All this mining does a lot more damage than oil drilling.

    Plus those 3rd world countries have poor or unenforced environmental protection laws.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Member Posts: 18,645
    andres3 said:

    What if you are just forced to ride your exercise bike in the evening and night to charge your car for the next day? You kill 2 birds with one stone; exercise and free charging for your automobile. :wink:

    OH wait... now we have to talk about how much drinking water is used up, and methane produced from the cattle that gave you the beef in your diet to power your calorie burning.

    Just get a real bicycle and ride to work.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 15,930
    pensfan83 said:

    The former mayor of the City of Pittsburgh was quite fond of bike lane, which never seem to see the use that would warrant narrowing streets in an already constricted-by-geography Downtown area. I'm more likely to get clipped by a cyclist taking short cuts on sidewalks or through a green space then if I were to walk in a bike lane for several city blocks. And let's not even start on the e-scooters that are literally dumped all over the city instead of being put back into their corrals.

    Louisville's pathetic excuse for a Mayor is often referred to as "Mayor McBikelane." He's raised virtue signaling to a high art- all while Louisville becomes known as the Beirut of the Bluegrass...

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2014 M235i; 2009 Cooper Clubman; 1999 Wrangler; 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i
    Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

  • ventureventure Central PAMember Posts: 2,353
    I guess car dealers aren't the only ones that can't get in stock.

    I was the John Deere place to see about trading in our X730 on something else. They didn't have any tractors I was interested in and wouldn't until the end of August; assuming they got shipped.

    They did say a new X730 was ordered by a guy, but he hasn't been answering his phone when they call. Yesterday was the last day he had to pick it up. If he didn't get it, it's mine. :)

    They gave us $6500 trade value on our 2014 X730.

    2020 Ascent Limited, 2020 Legacy Touring XT

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 20,281

    andres3 said:

    What if you are just forced to ride your exercise bike in the evening and night to charge your car for the next day? You kill 2 birds with one stone; exercise and free charging for your automobile. :wink:

    OH wait... now we have to talk about how much drinking water is used up, and methane produced from the cattle that gave you the beef in your diet to power your calorie burning.

    Just get a real bicycle and ride to work.
    What do you do in winter, get a dog sled?

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2004 Chevy Van, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • bwiabwia Greater BostonMember Posts: 2,912
    The Great Horse Manure Crisis of 1894

    "By the late 1800s, large cities all around the world were “drowning in horse manure”. In order for these cities to function, they were dependent on thousands of horses for the transport of both people and goods.

    In 1900, there were over 11,000 hansom cabs on the streets of London alone. There were also several thousand horse-drawn buses, each needing 12 horses per day, making a staggering total of over 50,000 horses transporting people around the city each day.

    This huge number of horses created major problems. The main concern was the large amount of manure left behind on the streets. On average a horse will produce between 15 and 35 pounds of manure per day, so you can imagine the sheer scale of the problem. The manure on London’s streets also attracted huge numbers of flies which then spread typhoid fever and other diseases.....

    ....By 1912, this seemingly insurmountable problem had been resolved; in cities all around the globe, horses had been replaced and now motorised vehicles were the main source of transport and carriage.

    Even today, in the face of a problem with no apparent solution, people often quote ‘The Great Horse Manure Crisis of 1894’, urging people not to despair, something will turn up!" https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofBritain/Great-Horse-Manure-Crisis-of-1894/

    So the automobile cured one problem and created many others. It will take the collective will of the people to ban ICE vehicles and replace them with electric alternatives. These "new" technologies are not optimal but with constant innovation BEV will become ubiquitous on the American landscape.
  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaMember Posts: 17,094
    Funny you bring this up. On the weekend I watched a YT video from a NYC architect talking about the most common residential building designs there back in that time. One of the styles he spoke about was the now-coveted NYC brownstone. Those are 3 or even 4 floors, with the main "parlor floor" up a flight of stairs from the sidewalk, inside stairways to the upper floors, and a lower level with its own outside entrance partly below street level. He explained that the owner would live on the parlor level, usually rent out the upper levels, and the servants lived in the bottom level. He said that the reason they were configured that was was to elevate the owner's unit above the stinky mountains of horse manure at street level. The servants were not so lucky.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaMember Posts: 17,094
    Hyundai/Kia potentially in some legal hot water in Germany:

    https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/hyundai-kia-raided-over-suspected-defeat-devices-german-prosecutor-2022-06-28/

    We don't think of them as players in the diesel market but over there that type of power was/are popular.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • jmonroe1jmonroe1 Pittsburgh areaMember Posts: 4,891

    @ab348 said:
    Funny you bring this up. On the weekend I watched a YT video from a NYC architect talking about the most common residential building designs there back in that time. One of the styles he spoke about was the now-coveted NYC brownstone. Those are 3 or even 4 floors, with the main "parlor floor" up a flight of stairs from the sidewalk, inside stairways to the upper floors, and a lower level with its own outside entrance partly below street level. He explained that the owner would live on the parlor level, usually rent out the upper levels, and the servants lived in the bottom level. He said that the reason they were configured that was was to elevate the owner's unit above the stinky mountains of horse manure at street level. The servants were not so lucky.

    ———————————————
    That’s in keeping with the old and still true saying, “xxxx flows downhill”.

    jmonroe

    '15 Genesis just like jmonroe, '18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 20,281
    edited June 28
    bwia said:

    The Great Horse Manure Crisis of 1894

    "By the late 1800s, large cities all around the world were “drowning in horse manure”. In order for these cities to function, they were dependent on thousands of horses for the transport of both people and goods.

    In 1900, there were over 11,000 hansom cabs on the streets of London alone. There were also several thousand horse-drawn buses, each needing 12 horses per day, making a staggering total of over 50,000 horses transporting people around the city each day.

    This huge number of horses created major problems. The main concern was the large amount of manure left behind on the streets. On average a horse will produce between 15 and 35 pounds of manure per day, so you can imagine the sheer scale of the problem. The manure on London’s streets also attracted huge numbers of flies which then spread typhoid fever and other diseases.....

    ....By 1912, this seemingly insurmountable problem had been resolved; in cities all around the globe, horses had been replaced and now motorised vehicles were the main source of transport and carriage.

    Even today, in the face of a problem with no apparent solution, people often quote ‘The Great Horse Manure Crisis of 1894’, urging people not to despair, something will turn up!" https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofBritain/Great-Horse-Manure-Crisis-of-1894/

    So the automobile cured one problem and created many others. It will take the collective will of the people to ban ICE vehicles and replace them with electric alternatives. These "new" technologies are not optimal but with constant innovation BEV will become ubiquitous on the American landscape.

    Well, with the resulting lack of natural gas to make fertilizer we may be longing for the days of abundant manure to grow our food crops. Changing technology can foster all sorts of unintended consequences.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2004 Chevy Van, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 208,801
    Plenty of manure... :/

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  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLMember Posts: 6,060
    edited June 28
    stickguy said:


    And nobody is banning ICE anywhere soon. Or shutting down every carbon based power plant. Moving toward something is not going all or nothing.

    I think 2035 is quite soon for ban of new ICE - and that's exactly what EU passed. 13 years - completely insane and unrealistic. From Portugal to Poland, from France to Greece. Never mind level of development, never mind realities of grid, power generation, infrastructure. 13 years!

    Oh, they set 2030 is for 40 percent renewable electric power. 8 YEARS! Not closing carbon based power plants any time soon?

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoModerator Posts: 207,789
    dino001 said:

    stickguy said:


    And nobody is banning ICE anywhere soon. Or shutting down every carbon based power plant. Moving toward something is not going all or nothing.

    I think 2035 is quite soon for ban of new ICE - and that's exactly what EU passed. 13 years - completely insane and unrealistic. From Portugal to Poland, from France to Greece. Never mind level of development, never mind realities of grid, power generation, infrastructure. 13 years!
    California tried to mandate a percentage of ZEV 30+ years ago. Technology wasn’t ready then. May not be ready now.

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  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLMember Posts: 6,060
    ab348 said:

    Hyundai/Kia potentially in some legal hot water in Germany:

    https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/hyundai-kia-raided-over-suspected-defeat-devices-german-prosecutor-2022-06-28/

    We don't think of them as players in the diesel market but over there that type of power was/are popular.

    They have some nerve going after Kia/Hyundai, when VW was practically indemnified by German government.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLMember Posts: 6,060
    edited June 28
    Michaell said:

    dino001 said:

    stickguy said:


    And nobody is banning ICE anywhere soon. Or shutting down every carbon based power plant. Moving toward something is not going all or nothing.

    I think 2035 is quite soon for ban of new ICE - and that's exactly what EU passed. 13 years - completely insane and unrealistic. From Portugal to Poland, from France to Greece. Never mind level of development, never mind realities of grid, power generation, infrastructure. 13 years!
    California tried to mandate a percentage of ZEV 30+ years ago. Technology wasn’t ready then. May not be ready now.
    I concluded some time ago that EU agenda is not about the planet, but about securing dominance of German manufacturing and selling more stuff to the "junior" (some call it colonial) EU states, even if it means impoverishing them in the process. Cause who makes all that good renewable stuff? You guessed it... I'm big into conspiracy theories, but this one really smells, especially when you see the methodology of emissions accounting. The best one was, before the Ukraine invasion Germans pushed for Nord Stream II, capable to transport (in near future) hydrogen from Russia, as a supposed super clean fuel for power. Well, just read how hydrogen is made, especially from methane and you get idea quickly it's all a slight of hand. It would have been basically reduction of carbon emissions in Germany and moving them to Russia, neat trick to make yourself look/feel better, but solving absolutely nothing in terms of carbon emissions. That's how all these "carbon neutral" emissions claimed by some look - it's creative accounting. Don't look there, look here.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • jmonroe1jmonroe1 Pittsburgh areaMember Posts: 4,891
    Michaell said:

    dino001 said:

    stickguy said:


    And nobody is banning ICE anywhere soon. Or shutting down every carbon based power plant. Moving toward something is not going all or nothing.

    I think 2035 is quite soon for ban of new ICE - and that's exactly what EU passed. 13 years - completely insane and unrealistic. From Portugal to Poland, from France to Greece. Never mind level of development, never mind realities of grid, power generation, infrastructure. 13 years!
    California tried to mandate a percentage of ZEV 30+ years ago. Technology wasn’t ready then. May not be ready now.
    ————————————————
    But will that stop California from trying it again? Maybe they’ll be smart enough to see how it goes in Europe unless California wants to be a trail blazer for the US. Stuff like this never stopped them before, though.

    It’s going to be a fun ride for some but I don’t want to buy a ticket for that ride anytime soon.

    jmonroe
    '15 Genesis just like jmonroe, '18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 20,281
    dino001 said:

    stickguy said:


    And nobody is banning ICE anywhere soon. Or shutting down every carbon based power plant. Moving toward something is not going all or nothing.

    I think 2035 is quite soon for ban of new ICE - and that's exactly what EU passed. 13 years - completely insane and unrealistic. From Portugal to Poland, from France to Greece. Never mind level of development, never mind realities of grid, power generation, infrastructure. 13 years!

    Oh, they set 2030 is for 40 percent renewable electric power. 8 YEARS! Not closing carbon based power plants any time soon?
    And at the first hiccup they are opening the coal plants back up. I understand there is also a lot of blowback from people objecting to solar panel farms ruining their views.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2004 Chevy Van, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 46,065
    If recent world events proved anything, eliminating dependency on certain countries to provide gas is a good idea.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD , 2022 Ford Maverick Lariat Ecoboost FWD.

  • tjc78tjc78 South JerseyMember Posts: 13,889

    @stickguy said:
    If recent world events proved anything, eliminating dependency on certain countries to provide gas is a good idea.

    Indeed

    2020 Volvo XC90 T6 Momentum / 2019 Volvo S60 T6 Inscription (not for long)

  • henrynhenryn Houston, TXMember Posts: 3,765
    stickguy said:

    If recent world events proved anything, eliminating dependency on certain countries to provide gas is a good idea.

    Except ... anyone remember the Arab oil embargo of 1973? Did we learn anything from that? Hmmm...
    2019 Chrysler Pacifica, 2013 Ford F150 XL
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 20,281
    henryn said:

    stickguy said:

    If recent world events proved anything, eliminating dependency on certain countries to provide gas is a good idea.

    Except ... anyone remember the Arab oil embargo of 1973? Did we learn anything from that? Hmmm...
    I guess we learned to make cars that get 2-3 times better gas mileage.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2004 Chevy Van, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 46,065
    and if that happens out of this situation, it would be a good thing.

    a combo of switching to EVs an PHEV/EV models, and shifting to higher MPG normal options, will make a huge impact on overall demand, even without changing driving habits much. do that do and demand really drops!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD , 2022 Ford Maverick Lariat Ecoboost FWD.

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLMember Posts: 6,060

    dino001 said:

    stickguy said:


    And nobody is banning ICE anywhere soon. Or shutting down every carbon based power plant. Moving toward something is not going all or nothing.

    I think 2035 is quite soon for ban of new ICE - and that's exactly what EU passed. 13 years - completely insane and unrealistic. From Portugal to Poland, from France to Greece. Never mind level of development, never mind realities of grid, power generation, infrastructure. 13 years!

    Oh, they set 2030 is for 40 percent renewable electric power. 8 YEARS! Not closing carbon based power plants any time soon?
    And at the first hiccup they are opening the coal plants back up. I understand there is also a lot of blowback from people objecting to solar panel farms ruining their views.
    Rational people would, but rational people would not pass this at the first place, so I wouldn’t be so sure.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • bwiabwia Greater BostonMember Posts: 2,912
    edited June 29
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Member Posts: 18,645
    What if you are just forced to ride your exercise bike in the evening and night to charge your car for the next day? You kill 2 birds with one stone; exercise and free charging for your automobile. :wink: OH wait... now we have to talk about how much drinking water is used up, and methane produced from the cattle that gave you the beef in your diet to power your calorie burning.
    Just get a real bicycle and ride to work.
    What do you do in winter, get a dog sled?

    A heated jacket and knobby tires.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Member Posts: 18,645
    The Great Horse Manure Crisis of 1894 "By the late 1800s, large cities all around the world were “drowning in horse manure”. In order for these cities to function, they were dependent on thousands of horses for the transport of both people and goods. In 1900, there were over 11,000 hansom cabs on the streets of London alone. There were also several thousand horse-drawn buses, each needing 12 horses per day, making a staggering total of over 50,000 horses transporting people around the city each day. This huge number of horses created major problems. The main concern was the large amount of manure left behind on the streets. On average a horse will produce between 15 and 35 pounds of manure per day, so you can imagine the sheer scale of the problem. The manure on London’s streets also attracted huge numbers of flies which then spread typhoid fever and other diseases..... ....By 1912, this seemingly insurmountable problem had been resolved; in cities all around the globe, horses had been replaced and now motorised vehicles were the main source of transport and carriage. Even today, in the face of a problem with no apparent solution, people often quote ‘The Great Horse Manure Crisis of 1894’, urging people not to despair, something will turn up!" https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofBritain/Great-Horse-Manure-Crisis-of-1894/ So the automobile cured one problem and created many others. It will take the collective will of the people to ban ICE vehicles and replace them with electric alternatives. These "new" technologies are not optimal but with constant innovation BEV will become ubiquitous on the American landscape.

    You see that issue to a lesser extent on Mackinac Island. But poop isn't the only issue. I remember one time there they warned us of the puddles and the fact that it hadn't rained there in several days.

    Another issue was that those horses sometimes died while working. What they usually did was cut the dead horse out of the reins and keep moving letting the city get rid of the horse.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • jmonroe1jmonroe1 Pittsburgh areaMember Posts: 4,891
    bwia said:
    ————————————————-
    If only it weren’t a Chrysler.

    That was not their glory days. My Dad bought a 1957 Plymouth Sport Suburban station wagon (that’s the car I learned to drive on). It was the worst car he ever owned. But, it was his fault. His BIL (my Mom’s brother) bought a 1956 Plymouth wagon (not the sport model with all the goodie’s) and he told my Dad not to buy it. Told him he’d have problems at given mileages with the engine and tranny. Sure enough, his predictions were spot on. My Dad dumped that thing in two years and bought a 1959 Olds Super 88. That Olds turned out to be a pretty good car but compared to that Plymouth anything would be.

    jmonroe
    '15 Genesis just like jmonroe, '18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
  • henrynhenryn Houston, TXMember Posts: 3,765
    jmonroe1 said:

    bwia said:
    ————————————————-
    If only it weren’t a Chrysler.

    That was not their glory days. My Dad bought a 1957 Plymouth Sport Suburban station wagon (that’s the car I learned to drive on). It was the worst car he ever owned. But, it was his fault. His BIL (my Mom’s brother) bought a 1956 Plymouth wagon (not the sport model with all the goodie’s) and he told my Dad not to buy it. Told him he’d have problems at given mileages with the engine and tranny. Sure enough, his predictions were spot on. My Dad dumped that thing in two years and bought a 1959 Olds Super 88. That Olds turned out to be a pretty good car but compared to that Plymouth anything would be.

    jmonroe
    My early memories of Chrysler products is entirely different from yours. My father owned a 1953 Chrysler, which he absolutely loved. And later on, a 1955 Plymouth which he had for a number of years. He rebuilt the engine in that one, and souped it up a bit. It was capable of surprising V8 Fords and Chevys. A lot of my early memories involve that car. It was the first car that I ever drove.
    2019 Chrysler Pacifica, 2013 Ford F150 XL
  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaMember Posts: 17,094
    Harry S Truman was a loyal Chrysler Corp. man:

    https://www.curbsideclassic.com/blog/automotive-history-the-cars-of-president-harry-s-truman/

    Mostly lower-model Chryslers, but a few Dodges scattered in there too.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • jmonroe1jmonroe1 Pittsburgh areaMember Posts: 4,891
    henryn said:

    jmonroe1 said:

    bwia said:
    ————————————————-
    If only it weren’t a Chrysler.

    That was not their glory days. My Dad bought a 1957 Plymouth Sport Suburban station wagon (that’s the car I learned to drive on). It was the worst car he ever owned. But, it was his fault. His BIL (my Mom’s brother) bought a 1956 Plymouth wagon (not the sport model with all the goodie’s) and he told my Dad not to buy it. Told him he’d have problems at given mileages with the engine and tranny. Sure enough, his predictions were spot on. My Dad dumped that thing in two years and bought a 1959 Olds Super 88. That Olds turned out to be a pretty good car but compared to that Plymouth anything would be.

    jmonroe
    My early memories of Chrysler products is entirely different from yours. My father owned a 1953 Chrysler, which he absolutely loved. And later on, a 1955 Plymouth which he had for a number of years. He rebuilt the engine in that one, and souped it up a bit. It was capable of surprising V8 Fords and Chevys. A lot of my early memories involve that car. It was the first car that I ever drove.
    ————————————————
    I forgot to mention that the 1957 wagon had the push buttons for actuating the transmission (I always referred to that gimmick as typewriter drive). The buttons were mounted on the far top left of the dash. While the buttons always worked (I don’t remember them ever hanging up and failing to move) but once in gear, that was when the problems started. Cute but no cigar. :#

    jmonroe
    '15 Genesis just like jmonroe, '18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 20,281
    bwia said:
    I’d rather have a 59’. Amazing how much they changed in 4 years.


    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2004 Chevy Van, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • sdasda Indian Land, SCMember Posts: 5,810

    A good morning welcome, minor stuff but dialed in for me.

    2018 VW Passat SE w/tech, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech, 2006 Acura TL w/nav

  • henrynhenryn Houston, TXMember Posts: 3,765

    bwia said:
    I’d rather have a 59’. Amazing how much they changed in 4 years.


    I like them both, but if I had to choose one ... probably the 55, but it would be a tough choice.
    2019 Chrysler Pacifica, 2013 Ford F150 XL
  • tjc78tjc78 South JerseyMember Posts: 13,889

    Everyone says the cars all look the same today …. But many 57-59 cars across several makes were pretty darn similar if you ask me.

    2020 Volvo XC90 T6 Momentum / 2019 Volvo S60 T6 Inscription (not for long)

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 46,065
    they definitely were. styles changed much quicker in those days, but it seems like all the makes changed the same within maybe 1 year of each other.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD , 2022 Ford Maverick Lariat Ecoboost FWD.

  • henrynhenryn Houston, TXMember Posts: 3,765
    tjc78 said:

    Everyone says the cars all look the same today …. But many 57-59 cars across several makes were pretty darn similar if you ask me.

    Do you have any specific examples in mind? Back in the late 50s and early 60s, my 2 brothers and I would ride our bikes down to the highway and sit on the side of a hill and then identify every car and truck that drove by. Chevrolet, Ford, Chrysler, Dodge, Plymouth, Lincoln, Mercury, what have you. Very very few foreign cars in those days, especially out in the boonies where I was. Occasionally a Nash or a Hudson. And lest I forget, Studebaker was fairly common as well. I can remember spotting a Studebaker Golden Hawk and being quite excited about that.

    Spotting something that we could not identify was a pretty rare occurrence, and usually involved either a foreign make or a classic of some kind. In the 1950s, there were still a lot of cars from the 1930s on the road. Not restored classics, just everyday drivers.
    2019 Chrysler Pacifica, 2013 Ford F150 XL
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