@fintail You are a true traditionalist. That brown one needs something to liven it up!
For some things, less is more. I still prefer my MB sedans with formal grilles and hood ornaments too, so there's that.
Well, the blue does a lot more for it than that dead brown color. I still think they need a bit of pizzaz to set them off, and not look so formal.
The brown is better than black anyway. A black G is like a Russian mafia cliche almost to the point of humor.
It's a tough line on those - they look too blingy with shiny stuff, and ridiculous with too much black trim faux sport stuff.
I saw a G in that blue color @fintail prefers, on my way back from the vet this afternoon. Had black wheels, however.
Mercedes doesn't use nice blues too often. Funny, KIA and Hyundai get some of the more unique colors, and probably don't charge a lot extra for certain paints.
Will you guys take it easy when you rent our cars!
This is why you do not rent cars out to the Fantastic Four.
It's a Stellantis product; this is simply what it looks like after 3 months of ownership...
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
I was looking at some classic car clubs and their schedules for large get togethers.
I wish I was in Spokane... the Buick Club of America has their national meet there starting July 12. AT least the Oldsmobile Car Club nationals is in Dayton at the Mariott in August.
I just went to a GM only show last Saturday and it was great: Buick, Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Cadillac were the brands invited along with their lower models such as Lasalle, Oakland, and I forget the other two related models that were were invited. No Chevies and thus no Corvettes--refreshing compared to the usual GM show.
I'm so tired of seeing cars that have had different wheels, or colors, or engines put into what could have been cars restored to their original state. These cars were all great. About 75-80 cars I'd estimate.
Come down to the Keeneland Concours d’Elegance on July 15. Cadillac is the featured marque. My Club Sport will be entered in the Youngtimers class.
Thanks for the link, it looks like a beautiful event! I'll put it on my retirement, follow the car shows/auctions event list. I started to look at the class winners from '22. After ~ 8 slides, I realized that I hadn't noted the cars as I was distracted by the young ladies presenting the trophies... ich bin eine dirty old man. Great. I started again, by George, the cars were fab too!
And, for those with garage space, Cayman raffle; only 1500 tickets to be sold...
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
@fintail You are a true traditionalist. That brown one needs something to liven it up!
For some things, less is more. I still prefer my MB sedans with formal grilles and hood ornaments too, so there's that.
Well, the blue does a lot more for it than that dead brown color. I still think they need a bit of pizzaz to set them off, and not look so formal.
The brown is better than black anyway. A black G is like a Russian mafia cliche almost to the point of humor.
It's a tough line on those - they look too blingy with shiny stuff, and ridiculous with too much black trim faux sport stuff.
I saw a G in that blue color @fintail prefers, on my way back from the vet this afternoon. Had black wheels, however.
Mercedes doesn't use nice blues too often. Funny, KIA and Hyundai get some of the more unique colors, and probably don't charge a lot extra for certain paints.
———————————————— They get some unique customers too.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis Ultimate just like jmonroe's. '18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
I wonder when they got that. When I was there a month ago the salesman said they never got those on the lot unless they were special ordered. I guess what I looking for was the 8’ bed. Strange they got a 6.5’ bed since the longer bed was a fairly cheap option.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2004 Chevy Van, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I wonder when they got that. When I was there a month ago the salesman said they never got those on the lot unless they were special ordered. I guess what I looking for was the 8’ bed. Strange they got a 6.5’ bed since the longer bed was a fairly cheap option.
———————————————— More than likely, a minimally optioned, 8 foot bed only appeals to guys in the trades. Whereas a 6 1/2 foot bed, with some options, has a better chance of appealing to folks that want to sit up high and pretend they’re driving a real pickup.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis Ultimate just like jmonroe's. '18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
———————————————— I’m sure they show it somewhere but I can’t find the bed size. That should be front and center, at least shown under Basic Info section.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis Ultimate just like jmonroe's. '18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
surprised they don't show bed length on the window sticker, just wheelbase. but that is the long WB and the picture looks like a long bed so I assumed 8', but buried in the details it says 78". so maybe it just looks long because not used to seeing a standard cab?
and pet peeve, I hate trucks with huge wheel wells, with small wheels. Looks odd to me, like it has a donut on or something!
I must be slipping in my old age. I had a reminder in my phone for last week and must have missed it, because my last XM promo expired today. I have CC notices set for any online charges so noticed the monthly hit for XM went way up (something like $12 to $31). So on the phone to do the negotiations, and a few minutes later, back to $12 or so. Not quite as cheap as it used to be but I can live with it!
declined adding my Maverick (currently on free trial) to the plan and having it automatically renew on the same monthly discount, since I assume I will get a better off-trial offer in a couple of month.
I must be slipping in my old age. I had a reminder in my phone for last week and must have missed it, because my last XM promo expired today. I have CC notices set for any online charges so noticed the monthly hit for XM went way up (something like $12 to $31). So on the phone to do the negotiations, and a few minutes later, back to $12 or so. Not quite as cheap as it used to be but I can live with it!
declined adding my Maverick (currently on free trial) to the plan and having it automatically renew on the same monthly discount, since I assume I will get a better off-trial offer in a couple of month.
————————————————- You just confirmed why I don’t give them my CC. I’d much rather make the yearly call and do the dance.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis Ultimate just like jmonroe's. '18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
@jmonroe1, I've had trucks with 5 1/2, 6 1/2 and 8 foot beds, so maybe it's easier for me to tell which one it is just by looking at it. 157" WB with single can gives it away, too.
@jmonroe1, I've had trucks with 5 1/2, 6 1/2 and 8 foot beds, so maybe it's easier for me to tell which one it is just by looking at it. 157" WB with single can gives it away, too.
———————————————— I’ve never owned any size pickup so WB dimensions don’t mean anything to me. Therefore, it’s not easier for me to tell one from another.
I guess you can say experiene IS the best teacher.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis Ultimate just like jmonroe's. '18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
@fintail You are a true traditionalist. That brown one needs something to liven it up!
For some things, less is more. I still prefer my MB sedans with formal grilles and hood ornaments too, so there's that.
Well, the blue does a lot more for it than that dead brown color. I still think they need a bit of pizzaz to set them off, and not look so formal.
The brown is better than black anyway. A black G is like a Russian mafia cliche almost to the point of humor.
It's a tough line on those - they look too blingy with shiny stuff, and ridiculous with too much black trim faux sport stuff.
I saw a G in that blue color @fintail prefers, on my way back from the vet this afternoon. Had black wheels, however.
Mercedes doesn't use nice blues too often. Funny, KIA and Hyundai get some of the more unique colors, and probably don't charge a lot extra for certain paints.
Is that a real car and color though? Looks concept-y.
The MB color is "China Blue" (a color name from the 70s-80s), a Designo option on certain (but maybe not all) models.
@fintail You are a true traditionalist. That brown one needs something to liven it up!
For some things, less is more. I still prefer my MB sedans with formal grilles and hood ornaments too, so there's that.
Well, the blue does a lot more for it than that dead brown color. I still think they need a bit of pizzaz to set them off, and not look so formal.
The brown is better than black anyway. A black G is like a Russian mafia cliche almost to the point of humor.
It's a tough line on those - they look too blingy with shiny stuff, and ridiculous with too much black trim faux sport stuff.
I saw a G in that blue color @fintail prefers, on my way back from the vet this afternoon. Had black wheels, however.
Mercedes doesn't use nice blues too often. Funny, KIA and Hyundai get some of the more unique colors, and probably don't charge a lot extra for certain paints.
Is that a real car and color though? Looks concept-y.
The MB color is "China Blue" (a color name from the 70s-80s), a Designo option on certain (but maybe not all) models.
Here it is on an E63 wagon:
That is a great looking blue, but why not offer it on all models all the time? I just checked a 2023 C Class....Build your own. The only color offered besides about 5 grays and silvers and black was starling blue metalic which isn't so hot! They don't even offer white apparently.....and most you have to pay extra for....like do they sell you a car without paint if you don't pay for a paint job?
I don't think the blue KIA is a concept car, but I have seen that blue on other cars....mostly less expensive ones. I think Mercedes thinks it is gauche to use nice colors.
Right now my area is experiencing a smoke haze from fires up in Canada. It’s so thick you can actually smell it. How is it up your way driver100?
In good news my younger son just came back from a few days in Las Vegas. It’s notable because of his disability and the fact that he doesn’t leave the house much.
Somebody hacked his debit card and started buying clothes in Singapore causing the bank to freeze his account and with it a big portion of his funds. I had to wire him $500 to tide him over but during the process he won $1000 and then another $1500 in quick succession. The kid has the best luck and the worst luck at the same time.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2004 Chevy Van, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
@oldfarmer50 said:
Right now my area is experiencing a smoke haze from fires up in Canada. It’s so thick you can actually smell it. How is it up your way driver100?
In good news my younger son just came back from a few days in Las Vegas. It’s notable because of his disability and the fact that he doesn’t leave the house much.
Somebody hacked his debit card and started buying clothes in Singapore causing the bank to freeze his account and with it a big portion of his funds. I had to wire him $500 to tide him over but during the process he won $1000 and then another $1500 in quick succession. The kid has the best luck and the worst luck at the same time.
————————————————
Aside from getting your 500 bucks back, what was his first offer of a cut of the winnings?
jmonroe
'15 Genesis Ultimate just like jmonroe's. '18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
Same here, Massachusetts, OldFarmer. Smokey haze courtesy of Nova Scotia. Better than having the actual wildfires, I suppose.
Worst nightmare: woody, twisty roads on the way home from errands in the M240, I got stuck behind a Prius. Wagon. Brake lights at any hint of a curve in the road.
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
We've had several days of varying levels of smoke from the fires. Today, I can sort of taste and smell the smoke. But it's nothing like the smell when there were fires in the western state and Canada.
I await an apology from the Prime Minister. First all that awful cold air from Canada some times of the year and now the smoke from fires...
Right now my area is experiencing a smoke haze from fires up in Canada. It’s so thick you can actually smell it. How is it up your way driver100?
I.
Oh sure, blame us again, for the fires, for the cold arctic air, for Canada Geese! btw...you don't complain about our trees when you breathe in oxygen! We have hazy conditions, and it smells a bit like a campfire around here. Some people are wearing their K95 masks. Do you remember having campfires or bonfires....we sat around and breathed in that smoke for hours? Now they tell us it is full of carcinogens and toxic materials! We even roasted hot dogs and marshmallows in those campfires!!!!
Right now my area is experiencing a smoke haze from fires up in Canada. It’s so thick you can actually smell it. How is it up your way driver100?
I.
Oh sure, blame us again, for the fires, for the cold arctic air, for Canada Geese! btw...you don't complain about our trees when you breathe in oxygen! We have hazy conditions, and it smells a bit like a campfire around here. Some people are wearing their K95 masks. Do you remember having campfires or bonfires....we sat around and breathed in that smoke for hours? Now they tell us it is full of carcinogens and toxic materials! We even roasted hot dogs and marshmallows in those campfires!!!!
I forgot about Canada Geese. On one scrub golf course the owner asked me if I knew how to get rid of the Canada Geese that populated a green that was next to a pond--golfers had to shoot over the pond. They left an awful mess of droppings over the green and around that area. Terrible.
Same here, Massachusetts, OldFarmer. Smokey haze courtesy of Nova Scotia. Better than having the actual wildfires, I suppose.
Worst nightmare: woody, twisty roads on the way home from errands in the M240, I got stuck behind a Prius. Wagon. Brake lights at any hint of a curve in the road.
Stuck behind a Prius!!!!!!!!! Would you have mentioned it if it was just a KIA? I would have noticed the same thing. In fact, I was following one that was in the left lane for no reason going 50 on a 60 mph highway....it was like I am special so I can drive wherever I like. The Prius owner doesn't even pay the tax on gas which helps pay for the road.
And now the biggest laugh....the Ontario government has warned us there will be a big chance of brownouts this summer if the weather is hot, and they want us to buy more electric cars
Talk about colors: The reviewer says; Now this is my kind of green vehicle. Don’t get me wrong, I love electric cars, and for day-to-day motoring (range limitations aside) nothing beats an EV. But a Porsche 718 Cayman GTS 4.0 in Python Green? C’mon. I would argue (colour aside) this variant of the Cayman is the best sports-car-money can buy, and with a starting price of $98,800 (add… ahem, $24k in options here) it’s not an exorbitant price for what must be one of the greatest ways to celebrate the end of the ICE age for the mid-engine Porsche. The next Cayman and Boxster, expected for 2025, will be fully electric, dontcha know.
We've had several days of varying levels of smoke from the fires. Today, I can sort of taste and smell the smoke. But it's nothing like the smell when there were fires in the western state and Canada.
I await an apology from the Prime Minister. First all that awful cold air from Canada some times of the year and now the smoke from fires...
Same here, Massachusetts, OldFarmer. Smokey haze courtesy of Nova Scotia. Better than having the actual wildfires, I suppose.
Whatcha talking about? We just had several days of heavy rain here. Any fires (we did have some last week) are out. Quebec is suffering now and that is the source.
the smoke is so bad here today that the air all around has an orange glow. I haven't been able to step outside the house/garage. And the Phillies game was just canceled on account of smoke.
Fairly steady: '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c, '21 WRX, '20 S90 T6, '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel, '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP / Rotating stock, but currently: '92 325i, '97 Alto Works, '11 Mini Cooper S
@qbrozen said:
the smoke is so bad here today that the air all around has an orange glow. I haven't been able to step outside the house/garage. And the Phillies game was just canceled on account of smoke.
Pretty bad down here. It’s like an orange sunset glow in the middle of the afternoon
We had a video call with a store in Brooklyn and they showed us the outside and it was terrible.
2020 Volvo XC90 T6 Momentum / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
@driver100 said:
Oh sure, blame us again, for the fires, for the cold arctic air, for Canada Geese!
btw...you don't complain about our trees when you breathe in oxygen!
We have hazy conditions, and it smells a bit like a campfire around here. Some people are wearing their K95 masks. Do you remember having campfires or bonfires....we sat around and breathed in that smoke for hours? Now they tell us it is full of carcinogens and toxic materials! We even roasted hot dogs and marshmallows in those campfires!!!!
————————————————
Mother Nature says what we didn’t know didn’t hurt us but since now we know, now it hurts us. Ignorance is bliss and forgiving.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis Ultimate just like jmonroe's. '18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
@imidazol97 said:
I forgot about Canada Geese. On one scrub golf course the owner asked me if I knew how to get rid of the Canada Geese that populated a green that was next to a pond--golfers had to shoot over the pond.
They left an awful mess of droppings over the green and around that area. Terrible.
————————————————
I’m pretty sure Canadian shotguns would do the job.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis Ultimate just like jmonroe's. '18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
Comments
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
I started to look at the class winners from '22. After ~ 8 slides, I realized that I hadn't noted the cars as I was distracted by the young ladies presenting the trophies... ich bin eine dirty old man. Great.
I started again, by George, the cars were fab too!
And, for those with garage space, Cayman raffle; only 1500 tickets to be sold...
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
————————————————
The vet? What happened? Did you swallow a bone?
jmonroe
They get some unique customers too.
jmonroe
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2004 Chevy Van, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2004 Chevy Van, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
That looks like it was outgoing.
jmonroe
More than likely, a minimally optioned, 8 foot bed only appeals to guys in the trades. Whereas a 6 1/2 foot bed, with some options, has a better chance of appealing to folks that want to sit up high and pretend they’re driving a real pickup.
jmonroe
https://www.mikebassford.net/inventory/new-2023-ford-f-150-xl-4x2-regular-cab-1ftmf1c51pke40109/
I’m sure they show it somewhere but I can’t find the bed size. That should be front and center, at least shown under Basic Info section.
jmonroe
You can look at the pictures or click on the window sticker button.
It's an 8 footer.
and pet peeve, I hate trucks with huge wheel wells, with small wheels. Looks odd to me, like it has a donut on or something!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
it is weird though they don't tell you.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
declined adding my Maverick (currently on free trial) to the plan and having it automatically renew on the same monthly discount, since I assume I will get a better off-trial offer in a couple of month.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I’m pretty sure they didn’t say that. And don’t tell me I can figure it out from the dimensions given. I ain’t good at math.
jmonroe
You just confirmed why I don’t give them my CC. I’d much rather make the yearly call and do the dance.
jmonroe
I've had trucks with 5 1/2, 6 1/2 and 8 foot beds, so maybe it's easier for me to tell which one it is just by looking at it.
157" WB with single can gives it away, too.
Got PET-CT SCAN results - NO TUMORS OR CANCER! The ultrasound results were an anomaly. I can breathe a sigh of 😅 relief.
2021 Genesis G90
I’ve never owned any size pickup so WB dimensions don’t mean anything to me. Therefore, it’s not easier for me to tell one from another.
I guess you can say experiene IS the best teacher.
jmonroe
That’s the best news you could have given us. Go break out your best bottle of bourbon. We’ll hurry on down to celebrate with you.
jmonroe
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4
The MB color is "China Blue" (a color name from the 70s-80s), a Designo option on certain (but maybe not all) models.
Here it is on an E63 wagon:
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2004 Chevy Van, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Glad you got negative results from your tests. Given your health history, I'm sure your Dr was just being cautious.
I just checked a 2023 C Class....Build your own. The only color offered besides about 5 grays and silvers and black was starling blue metalic which isn't so hot! They don't even offer white apparently.....and most you have to pay extra for....like do they sell you a car without paint if you don't pay for a paint job?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
In good news my younger son just came back from a few days in Las Vegas. It’s notable because of his disability and the fact that he doesn’t leave the house much.
Somebody hacked his debit card and started buying clothes in Singapore causing the bank to freeze his account and with it a big portion of his funds. I had to wire him $500 to tide him over but during the process he won $1000 and then another $1500 in quick succession. The kid has the best luck and the worst luck at the same time.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2004 Chevy Van, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
————————————————
Aside from getting your 500 bucks back, what was his first offer of a cut of the winnings?
jmonroe
Worst nightmare: woody, twisty roads on the way home from errands in the M240, I got stuck behind a Prius. Wagon. Brake lights at any hint of a curve in the road.
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
Great news Mike!!!!!
2020 Volvo XC90 T6 Momentum / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
sort of taste and smell the smoke. But it's nothing like the smell when there
were fires in the western state and Canada.
I await an apology from the Prime Minister. First all that awful cold air from
Canada some times of the year and now the smoke from fires...
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2009 Cooper Clubman; 1999 Wrangler; 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive
btw...you don't complain about our trees when you breathe in oxygen!
We have hazy conditions, and it smells a bit like a campfire around here. Some people are wearing their K95 masks. Do you remember having campfires or bonfires....we sat around and breathed in that smoke for hours? Now they tell us it is full of carcinogens and toxic materials!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
They left an awful mess of droppings over the green and around that area. Terrible.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Would you have mentioned it if it was just a KIA?
I would have noticed the same thing.
In fact, I was following one that was in the left lane for no reason going 50 on a 60 mph highway....it was like I am special so I can drive wherever I like. The Prius owner doesn't even pay the tax on gas which helps pay for the road.
And now the biggest laugh....the Ontario government has warned us there will be a big chance of brownouts this summer if the weather is hot, and they want us to buy more electric cars
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
The reviewer says; Now this is my kind of green vehicle. Don’t get me wrong, I love electric cars, and for day-to-day motoring (range limitations aside) nothing beats an EV. But a Porsche 718 Cayman GTS 4.0 in Python Green? C’mon. I would argue (colour aside) this variant of the Cayman is the best sports-car-money can buy, and with a starting price of $98,800 (add… ahem, $24k in options here) it’s not an exorbitant price for what must be one of the greatest ways to celebrate the end of the ICE age for the mid-engine Porsche. The next Cayman and Boxster, expected for 2025, will be fully electric, dontcha know.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
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2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
Fairly steady: '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c, '21 WRX, '20 S90 T6, '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel, '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP / Rotating stock, but currently: '92 325i, '97 Alto Works, '11 Mini Cooper S
Pretty bad down here. It’s like an orange sunset glow in the middle of the afternoon
We had a video call with a store in Brooklyn and they showed us the outside and it was terrible.
2020 Volvo XC90 T6 Momentum / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
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Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
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————————————————
Mother Nature says what we didn’t know didn’t hurt us but since now we know, now it hurts us. Ignorance is bliss and forgiving.
jmonroe
————————————————
I’m pretty sure Canadian shotguns would do the job.
jmonroe