Toyota Highlander vs GMC Envoy
In the market for a midsize 4WD SUV for around $28K, I've narrowed it down to the Highlander and the Envoy. Anyone else in this situation like to chat?
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My challenge is I am looking to trade in my Explorer and GMC Sonoma to make a deal. I hate selling privately. I have no need for a extra car any longer. The local dealerships have no interest in taking in two trades.
I have also been throwing out $500 over invoice but have not got any takers.
If you like to throw away money and enjoy comfort and styling, get an Envoy. But if you like more value for that hard earn cash, get the Highlander.
I agree with your post, but one must also consider the length of time they will keep the vehicle. If a person plans to trade within the next 5 years or so, a Honda or Toyota or Nissan will almost always bring more money when compared to a domestic. However, if a person drives a vehicle for 10-12 years like we do, the trade-in value is basically a wash. However, the maintenance costs then become a factor. Based on my limited experience (only purchase new cars every 6 years or so...one for me...one for my wife), the Ford/GM/Dodge versus foreign design cost difference doesn't amount to much. Our 89 Aerostar required more maintenance than our 89 Legend, but the Legend cost more per fix than the Ford. Not to mention the Acura cost about 10K more than the Aerostar. All things considered, I haven't seen much difference cost wise between the two. If a short term deal is what you're looking for, go with the foreign design. If you're gonna drive it till it dies, I don't think it matters, as long as you buy the extended warranty for the domestic.
I paid $28.5K new and could have sold it for $10.5K at retail. Thats a wholesale resale value of 30% or 37% retail after 9 years and 125K miles of use.
Check out any 9 year old Japanese SUV or pickup with 125K miles and I think you find the resale value is closer to 15%. In this case the domestic has substantially better resale value than a japanese model.
I thought I heard something about mechanical problems with the Envoy, although I don't have any sources. Likewise, some early HL's had a brake recall to get a master cylinder cap replaced, but apparently that isn't an issue on the newer models.
BTW, you're not being too specific when you say "Japanese SUV". Isn't Isuzu japanese?
Anyway KDUBS1, I have a Highlander and I love it. I use it for mostly city/long distance driving and light off-road stuff. The Envoy is a bit more rugged, but will also be more expensive. You might want to compare it to an MDX.
I thought it was worth challenging the view that resale values of Japanese SUVs is automatically superior to GM models since the historical facts would suggest otherwise. Time will only tell how current models will fare, however its not unreasonable to use the recent past as an indicator of future values.
I think the facts contradict the misperception that Toyota's have a better resale value than all GM's. I'd be interested in any data you have for other SUVs that paint a different picture.
BTW, what BMW or Mercedes to you believe is in the same class as a Suburban?
Resale value aside, the main issue is what you feel most comfortable driving. Hardhawk was on the money about the differences between the Envoy and HL. Although, in 0-60 acceleration, I'll take the HL. : ) And in ride quality and steering control, I'll take the HL (one of the tightest turning radius' I've ever seen in an SUV!). But hey, I'm biased!
Also, what's the deal with the massive "Envoy" name plate on the back of Envoy? Its like they supersized the font. Bigger must be better.
hvan3: I have no idea why Toyota does that, but I know they're not alone. Why do some Mercedes feel the need to spell out "Kompressor" on their souped-up models? Wouldn't "K" be shorter?
I would say the only exception would be if you need the extra towing ability of the envoy then the HL will not do for you.....
1) You were not using the same vehicle I used in my comparison. The vehicle I used was the one I owned which was a 3/4 ton Silverado 4x4 Suburban (K2500) with 125,000 miles in clean condition.
2) The point I was making is the % of original value was higher on the Sub than Japanese SUVs with the same mileage. You would also have to provide the original selling price to determine if the trade-in or resale values are better/worse.
3) With all due respect to Edmunds, it is not the standard used by the industry for calculating the resale value by a dealer, the wholesale price or for that matter the retail to the general public.
That standard for the most part is Kelly Blue Book, which can be reviewed at kbb.com or through Carpoint.
By Kelly Blue Book a well-equipped 1992 3/4 ton 4x4 Silverado Suburban with 125,000 miles has a trade-in value of $6670 and a retail value of $12,195. This seems in alignment (however lower) than what I received in October of 2000 for the trade-in value on this exact vehicle of $8000. (which is significantly higher than Edmund's suggests and I doubt any dealer is going to give any more of a trade-in than necessary when the new vehicle purchased was at Factory invoice - on the GM Supplier program).
The KBB pricing also aligns with the pricing posted in most classifieds both on-line and in the local newspapers.
Using the same evaluation for a well-equipped (comparable to the SUB) 1992 4x4 Toyota 4Runner, the trade-in value was $5,245 and a retail value of $9480.
The Suburban described above in 1992 was $28,500. Unless you have an original purchase price for the Toyota above, the retained value cannot be calculated, however by almost any standard of vehicles being sold on-line, the comparison above would return a higher resale price for the Sub than the Toyota. Whether or not the residual value favored the GM could only be determined with an original purchase price for the Toyota.
Steve
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Heatwave- not to dig up the hatchet, but I think you're missing jblaze's point completely.
He is not arguing about the actual resale values of neither the Toyota or the Chevy. His point was that 9 years ago, there were no direct SUV competitor to the Suburban from any Japanese automaker. And in fact, there still isn't. The Sequoia is more of a competitor for the Tahoe and Expeditions. Only the Ford's land yacht, the Excursion, can actually be compared to the Suburban.
But getting back on point- 9 years ago, there were no competitors for the big Chevy, hence the high resale value for a used one. So Toyota's resale value isn't really a myth, it's just overrated. Their cars' resale values are generally high, but not so high as to make every other car seem like they're worth $0 (save for a Hyundai Excel).
Now just for the sake of argument, I went to Kelley Blue Book and priced out a similarly equipped 1994 Chevy S-Blazer with a similarly equipped 1994 Toyota 4Runner SR5.
The Chevy had a retail of $7,385 and the Toyota had a retail of $10,450.
Unfortunately, KBB didn't give the original MSRP of both vehicles, so I went to AutoPricesPlus.com.
The base MSRPs of the Chevy and Toyota were $24,686 and $22,258, repectively.
Usual disclaimers - lots of unconfirmed reports out there. The rumor mill is worse than the CR-V articles that floated around all year.
Steve
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Absolutes are always dangerous and my example of the Sub was simply a response to the "assertion" that all Toyotas are better in resale. I acknowledge that the Sub may be special however that should be to GM's credit for meeting an unmet market need. Other companies could have done so (in fact Jeep had the F/S Grand Wagoneer for years that competed with the Suburban), but elected to leave it to the 65 year experience that Chevy has with the Suburban.
We have made a decision, but are not buying for a couple of months and will likely order.
GMC Envoy was surprisingly nice. Good feel, powerful, accessories, etc.. The HL wins out in my opinion however. Seems to be a more refined, quality vehicle overall. The only thing I need to make happen is a reasonable price for the HL.
http://www.motortrend.com/news/stories/011010mt.html
I was all set on buying the HL but reading the msg around here I went to the GMC to give the envoy a chance. The option on the envoy are superb. however the build quality and the interior as well as the outside trim was not up to par. Wonderfull truck though. Then we went back (wife and me) to the toyota dealer to refresh our memory and it was a no brainer.
The HL was of just so much higher quality when it come to fit and finish it was a no brainer.
Yes the envoy is a better SUV. Handle nice and have wonderfull options. But the interior just feel so cheap and exterior molding that was fading sitting on the dealer lot. It just felt 'clunky' with the rear seat look really crappy and with a bit metal peice sticking out in the middle of the seat it's downright bad. As compared to the HL that felt so luxurious compared to it. The 2002 center console is so nice. The Envoy has more HP but is heavier and can tow more. Almost double the HL. But I dotn' require that much towing (might need to haul my Mr2 spyder to race track but it's only 2194 pounds) nor do I off road that much since i live in CA. So I guess it's the HL for me.
As a side note the dealer we went to (Garden Grove, CA) Toyota had a 2001 model with a 3,000 dollars market add up (additional profit if you prefer) but the 2002 didn't have such a markup, DUH !!!! I really don't know what the hell they are thinking.
Anyway, that was my experience from comparing the two.
I test drove both yesterday and found that the Envoy looked more luxurious than the HL (unlike the previous post) and there were no metals sticking out, rust, etc. I thought it was way more powerful of an engine. It swayed a bit more than the HL, which is the only downside to the vehicle that I found. That and the tiny cupholders, definitely not big enough to hold my supersize drink cups. (The center console on the HL is an extra option? I've never heard of something that silly.) Anyway, I just got a great quote on-line for an Envoy for invoice with 0% financing so after much back and forth, I think we will get it this weekend.
DETROIT, Oct 15 (Reuters) - Toyota Motor Corp. is recalling more than 41,000 Highlander sport utility vehicles because of a potential problem with their brakes.
The problem, announced by federal regulators in a monthly list of automotive recalls, stems from potential leakage of air into the Highlander's braking system, which can lead to increased stopping distances and heightened risks of a crash.
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) said 41,169 of the SUVs from the 2001 model year were included in the recall.
Separately, NHTSA said Saab Cars USA Inc., a unit of General Motors Corp. (NYSE:GM - news), was recalling 12,036 of its 1998 model year 900 vehicles because their passenger side air bags may deploy without a crash.
The agency attributed the potential for inadvertent deployment to a buildup of static electricity in the compartments that house the air bags.
If you want to see some REAL recall news, trying entering "GMC Envoy Recalls" in your search engine. ; )
Really? Did you scroll through all of them or just the first one you saw? Here's what I found:
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2002 Chevrolet Trailblazer, GMC Envoy and Oldsmobile Bravada Recalled
Detroit, MI (SafetyAlerts) - The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) has published a recall affecting certain 2002 Chevrolet Trailblazer, GMC Envoy and Oldsmobile Bravada vehicles. The affected vehicles were manufactured between July and October 1999.
30,476 automobiles are affected by this recall.
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GM to recall 6,000 sport utility vehicles
APRIL 5, 2001 — General Motors plans to recall 6,000 sport utility vehicles because of a safety concern over a suspension part and will temporarily idle the plant that produces the vehicles. GM spokesman Mike Morrissey said Thursday that GM is asking customers who bought a 2002 Chevrolet Trailblazer, 2002 GMC Envoy or 2002 Oldsmobile Bravada to stop driving the vehicles immediately.
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Component: INTERIOR SYSTEMS:CONSOLE (8/82)
Year: 2002
Make: GMC
Model: ENVOY
Potential Number of Units Affected: 8197
Manufactured From: OCT 2000 To: MAR 2001
Year of Recall: '01
Type of Report: Vehicle
Summary:
Vehicle Description: Certain sport utility vehicles fail to comply with requirements of FMVSS No. 201, "Occupant Protection in Interior Impacts." These vehicles have a console cover/armrest lid latch that could release at less than the 10g vertical load requirement of the standard.
In the event of a crash, the console cover could open and the cover or items stored under it could injure an occupant.
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GMC Envoy: [3,116 vehicles] Daytime Running Lights have candela value greater than 2,600, were located less than 100 mm from turn signals and hazard lamps, and are not deactivated when turn signal or hazard lamps are activated.
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etc.....That's a wide variety of problems for such a new vehicle.
DETROIT, Oct 15 (Reuters) - Toyota Motor Corp. is recalling more than 41,000 Highlander sport utility vehicles because of a potential problem with their brakes.
The problem, announced by federal regulators in a monthly list of automotive recalls, stems from potential leakage of air into the Highlander's braking system, which can lead to increased stopping distances and heightened risks of a crash.
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) said 41,169 of the SUVs from the 2001 model year were included in the recall.<<
My source is "Reuters", your source is "Hearsay", what's your wager now?
Check out The Edmunds Maintenance Guide for details on this and most cars since 1990 or so (TSBs included).
Steve
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Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
By the way, I am in the auto industry, you've "studied it". I'm not going to say how much you know, how do you know what I know?
These are both new models and as an Industrial Engineer I am sure you are familiar with the fact that many new techniques, quality checks and sub-contractor inspections are deployed to ensure the latest model is better than the previous one.
My view is simple, only time will tell which is better in the area of quality and resale value.