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  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,907
    Better hurry to get that C30... it's such a slow seller, Volvo is going to discontinue it after this year. Must be a great car to sell so well. ;)

    Oh wait... the OP said "sedan". The C30 is a 2-door hatch. Never mind! :P
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    edited January 2013
    I've found over the years that "sedan" basically means "a normal car that's not a minivan or SUV" in these forums. Things like whether it has a hatchback or mini-doors or is a coupe and so on are minor concerns to most people. Most people who do need the car for four people will almost always state kids or the like in their initial post.

    Here's why I know it's overpriced: In Europe, the car is sold as the Opel Astra. In the U.S., it is sold as a cheaper model as the Chevy Cruze. And also as the dolled-up Verano. The price difference between the two is a bit amazing, frankly. GM is at it again with badge-engineering and asking prices that are silly. This reminds me of the idiocy that was the Cadillac Cimarron. Take a Chevy Cavalier, add some bling, and increase the price by a crazy amount.

    You wonder why so few are being sold? 41K for a first year launch is pretty pathetic these days. 30, 20, then almost nothing... It might not even make it to 120K total sales during its production run at this rate.

    Plus, it looks like a jellybean. GM's 70-80 year old board of directors fascination with French names and styling queues looks incredibly dated. France might have been cutting-edge in styling back in the 50s and 60s, but it's nowhere now. We want more edgy and modern things like the CTS. What we get is overly-analyzed and anal professor approved crap that looks like it was churned out by grad students straight out of design school. We want face-punching, take no prisoners attitude and we get a polite old office worker who is still wearing the same 20 year old suit.

    They have a name for this in Japan. Meat-eater and Grass-eater. GM certainly isn't the former.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,907
    I've found over the years that "sedan" basically means "a normal car that's not a minivan or SUV" in these forums.

    Or sometimes it means... a sedan!

    41K for a first year launch is pretty pathetic these days.

    Yet you recommended cars like the TSX and C30 and G25 that don't sell anywhere close to 41k units a year. So obviously sales numbers aren't important to you in recommending a car.

    Plus, it looks like a jellybean. ... We want more edgy and modern things like the CTS.

    In case you haven't noticed (amazing given how old the design is), the G sedan looks pretty jelly-beanish. Not very "edgy" at all.
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    Quite often most people don't care about a coupe vs a sedan enough to change their mind about a car they happen to like after they drive it. The same is true if there is a convertible option for the same car.

    Yes, 41K is low, but remember, that's a first year figure. The G25 was dropped after selling low numbers. I suspect the C30 is soon to die off as well. Now, the TSX is merely Honda being anal, IMO - it should be dropped as well. But it is a great car, unlike the Verano. I guess we'll look at the Verano in a year and know the real story. But GM is not known for sales increases on their models over time. And GM needs to hit home runs now as it's the 8th inning and they are running out of time and money. Not hit a bunt and hope they can get a base out of it.

    And, yes, the G sedan IS a fugly thing. But it handles and drives so well that it can be forgiven. Kind of Porsche and the Panamera. Styling from hell, but it apparently drives world-class. note - I'd love to personally test-drive one, but so far, no dice. Guess I don't exude that yuppie millionaire vibe... :P
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,907
    Do you regularly recommend vehicles you've never driven? :confuse:
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    I've driven virtually all of the vehicles that I mention. Living in Southern California, I like to go out and look at and test-drive cars every few weekends, sort of as a hobby of mine. Usually I get a friend to go with me - we have lunch, test a couple of cars, and maybe see a cheap matinee or some other time-wasting activity.

    And I've owned a lot of cars as well, over the years. My favorite was a tie between the 1967 Mercedes and the 1975 Volvo 164E. The most reliable was my Toyota 4Runner. My friends have owned a ton of cars as well. Though none of us have the ability to really test high-end stuff. A Porsche Cayman S is the most exotic thing so far, aside from the occasional CPO luxo-barge.

    Most fun car to drive manual in, btw, was a tie between a S2000 and a RX-8. I miss both cars. Rev the bolts off of them and hold on :)

    Worst thing to drive recently was a Toyota Land Cruiser, btw. Just hideously top-heavy and sluggish to respond. It honestly reminded me of a moving van. The second worst was the Smart - the transmission was, well, not really a transmission. Nasty, horrid thing. At least you don't have to pay for a coffin when you get smacked by that Excursion...
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,907
    Usually I get a friend to go with me - we have lunch, test a couple of cars, and maybe see a cheap matinee or some other time-wasting activity.

    Car salespeople must love you. :P
  • steverstever Posts: 52,683
    A reporter would like to speak to a woman who is a new Lexus IS owner. If you fit the description, please send your daytime contact to no later than 3 p.m. PT/6 p.m. ET, Friday, January 11, 2013.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 11,025
    A journalist would like to speak to car/truck shoppers who are looking for vehicles that don't have new technology - or a minimum of it - such as touchscreens, phone connectivity, joystick-controlled infotainment systems etc. If you are looking to buy a gadget-free car or truck, please send your daytime contact to no later than Tuesday, January 22, 2013 at noon PT/3 p.m. ET.


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  • Always enjoying reading you comments, Backy. It's likely I will be looking at the 2014 Nissan Versa Note SV, Buick Encore, and the Kia Soul! later this year. My wife and I both sat in the Elantra GT & didn't feel comfortable. I did drive an Accent for 4 years (2002-05) before giving it to my son. So no question about reliability.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,907
    The Note looks pretty nice, but... 109 hp and a CVT? Slowwwww. Must be a better way to get 40 mpg on the highway... like maybe the Mazda3i. :)
  • sandman_6472sandman_6472 Coral Springs, FLPosts: 4,176
    edited January 2013
    I like the Soul...quirky ride and I slid right over instead of falling into. They have a cream pearl color which is stunning but wasn't impressed with the mpg's. But hey, when I'm ready to buy my next, and last vehicle, it might be a better all around ride. We're quite happy with our one Hyundai already in the stable so buying a Kia won't be a problem. And that vehicle will be one that I can ingress/egress from very easily...that and comfort will be the two most important assets any choice will have to have for me. And kinda like the longer warranty on these Korean vehicles, like the piece of mind that it gives.

    I like the looks and comfort of the seems to be more upscale than it's price lets's just a nice looking car! Probably, no, is the only GM I'd even consider which is saying a lot about its perceived goodness to makes my current Civic look like a real econo car. Since my next will be my last, I want a super comfortable, affordable vehicle that I could pass to my wife or kids...I want my last to be something least more special than my Civic!

    The Sandman :) :sick: :shades:

    2015 Audi A3 (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2009 Nissan Versa SL Hatch (daughter #1) / 2008 Hyundai Accent GLS (daughter #2)

  • I definitely wish to buy new accord ex-l w/nav but not sure about four or six. With the four, not sure about CVT. With the six, not sure about that thing that turns off three of the cyllinders when not in use, and also don't know if worth the sacrifice in gas mileage with the six. Difference in purchase price not a problem. Please help, anyone.
  • Please feel free to assist me in previous question or re-direct me to a more appropriate site. I have heard bad things about CVT and need to know if is bad enough to warrant buying a V6 even though I don't need all that extra horsepower. Thank you in advance for any help.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 11,025
    Hi YAT - if you look to the right on this screen, there's a box to enter keywords. We have several discussions about the 2013 Accord, so if that's the model you're looking at, just enter 2013 accord in that box and you'll get a list. Current owners can give you feedback there.


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  • sandman_6472sandman_6472 Coral Springs, FLPosts: 4,176
    From what I've read, the cvt in the new Accord is probably the best on the market today. It does take some getting used to, as my kid has a Versa SL hatch with it and it drives a bit differently than a regular auto tranny...not bad...just different. But once you get used to it, it's a breeze actually. I wouldn't be concerned one bit with the Honda version as they wouldn't put it out there if they had any reservations about it since it's their best selling model.

    The Sandman :) :sick: :shades:

    2015 Audi A3 (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2009 Nissan Versa SL Hatch (daughter #1) / 2008 Hyundai Accent GLS (daughter #2)

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 2,877
    yatitle: Honda's new CVT for the 2013 Accord is getting very positive reviews from everyone. Here's just one example from Car and Driver:

    "But it’s the CVT’s tuning that makes the Accord feel fleet. The typical rubber-band delay has been minimized, and the throttle responds curtly when you ask for acceleration (although sometimes with some audible transmission whine at high revs). In mountain snakers as well as on city streets, the CVT works so efficiently that it all but disappears, and you never notice the lack of a manual control...."

    The acceleration of the the 4 cylinder with the CVT is quick—less than 8 seconds 0-60.

    You'll get better mpg with the 4, obviously, and so if you don't need sports car-like power that's probably the model you should go for.

    Let us know how it goes at the test drive!

    Best wishes....
  • So I've test driven a ton of cars, most of which 5 minutes or so which truly doesn't give enough time for a fair analysis of each. The Mazdaspeed3- the most boy-racer, worst gas mileage, least supportive seats, roughest riding, but by far the best performing. The Jetta GLI- love turbo power and 2.0T, easy to tune (APR/Revo/GIAC), great handler and ride, least visually appealing, spotty VW reliability, first 3 services free. Both of these require premium fuel. Lastly, the Honda Accord Sport sedan 6 speed- great handling/ride combination, super solid feeling, lots of standard features, gem of an engine, only color for me is gray, most grandpa-ish, slowest (0-60 6.7 1/4 15.3@93mph- which aren't bad), best mpgs, most proven reliability, regular unleaded, not much available to boost performance. Payments on all three would be $375-385 on 66 mos buying at invoice (less 1500 on the MS3) no money down. If I could find a low mileage 06-09 Jetta GLI 6 speed, I would have bought it already. I love that car. It's a 3rd car, daily driver for me, take my wife and boys places on occasion. We already have a 2012 Ford Fusion appearance pack car we love and a 2003 Suburban Z71.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Posts: 2,743
    Did you test drive the WRX and Focus ST? Where would they slot in?
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 22,094
    since you are willing to consider used, how about a 335i?

    A civic si would be a far better choice than the Accord if "sporty" is your priority.

    '17 F150 Crew 2.7; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '09 LR2 HSE. 44-car history and counting!

  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 64,727
    Jetta GLI shouldn't be that hard to find..


    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • redlinezredlinez Posts: 12
    edited January 2013
    The GLI base car is what I'm looking for. The WRX is out of my budget range and I thought the Focus ST was way to hyperactive. It was all over the place on acceleration (not spinning), the turbo didn't even really kick in until 3500-4000 rpms, and they're all loaded up with options. I hate the Civic Si's dash and the throttle overrun is terrible. If it weren't for those two things, I'd probably go with a Si, that and I don't like the newest styling.
    The used car I'd buy today if I could find one, is a low mileage 06-09 Jetta GLI 6 speed. The wife hates GTI's, so can't go there again.
  • drvettedrvette Posts: 99
    I like the VW offerings until I joined a V-dub forum.
    $500~ timing belt
    poor quality fuel pumps, frt suspension, interior etc etc

    So I bought a Cruze ECO 6sp
    Timing "chain"
    Cast Iron block
    Quality build and good skidpad figures.

    132+ top mph @ 32psi t.p. from the 15# boost @ 2000rpm~ has real seat-of-the-pants power.
    I've hit 125~ twice. This thing is Quick!

    The ability to get 50mpg by hypermiling is pretty neat.

    Goodyear Assure-Max(sp?) LLR tires are v. stiff & max of 51# cold press gives tidy handling.


    As always YMMV
  • Just drove all three today. The Accord sport is out because it's just a great driving large car, we already have a 12 Fusion we love. I really love the Speed3's power and just how raw the driving experience is. Great brakes and steering. But the interior feels cheaper than the Vdub and after visiting the really annoying Mazdaspeedforum, it's plagued with interior rattles and noises. Haven't read that about the MKVI Jetta GLI. I drove the GLI I would buy today, the base car on 17" wheels. It just really lacks the low end torque the MKV had. Very clean interior design, feels way more upscale than the Mazda. Obviously two very different cars. I can get the 13 Speed3 for $1200 less than the GLI, but VW offers .9% for 66 mos, so the payment is only $10 more for the GLI. Really tough decision here......
    The Cruze is a nice looking car, rented one once with the turbo automatic. Just not in the same league powerwise and I think they're over-priced just as the Sonic.
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 2,877
    Can you drive a manual?

    If so, you might want to consider a Civic Si.
  • That's all I'm looking at is manuals. Should have specified that too. I can't stand the Si's spaceship dash and throttle overrun programming. (from what I've read). I doubt it has enough low end for me.
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 2,877
    My brother in law has a 2012 Civic Si. This generation has much more low end torque, because they put in a 2.4 engine. The dash is weird, but I don't think it's a deal breaker. I think it's a lot of fun to drive and shift. Honda's manuals are about the best in the biz. Imho you should test drive it yourself before you write it off

    But I've always loved VW GTIs. A four door of those would be a lot of fun, and quite functional too.
  • No one has a Civic Si around here. After reading more on VWVortex, looks like the new Jettas are rattle traps just like my MKV GTI was. So both the Speed3 and the GLI are prone to it. Wow, it's kind of amazing the money and technology supposedly in these cars that they can't build them better. People talk trash about US made cars, but I hardly ever had Chrysler/Jeep customers complaining about noises. Our 12 Ford Fusion SE on 18" wheels has never made any noises in 24k miles. Maybe it's the turbo power twisting the bodies too much.....
  • This is my first time buying a car by myself. How do I go about finding a mechanic for pre purchase inspection?

    Do people just take the car to a national chain or hire specialty mobile mechanics for the job.

    I would ideally buy from a private party.
  • pegasus17pegasus17 Posts: 536
    I don't know you at all but here's some free advice. There are 3 things every man needs in life:
    1. a good barber
    2. a local joint to get cheap beer
    3. a good, trustworthy mechanic

    Everything else is optional. :)
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