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At least we are objective when it comes even to the cars that we own ourself. We do see the good and the bad in all cars. No matter what you say, you'll never convince the two of them that their beloved Honda is not prefect. At least we have owned the Germans and the Japaneses. And I don't think either of them have ever owned a German marquee. They might have heard or read about the problems.
I say just save your breath and let them both worship Honda. At least they are not against us
Pro: The H in front of the car - that should mean impeccable realibity and safety
Cons: - Crappy tires in the wet/snowy conditions - Defective AC system - Lousy gas mileage (around 22mpg - all highway driving 60mph roundtrip) that hopefully will get better as this is my second tank of gas (note: same gas station, Mobil, that I use to fill up for my previous 01 A4. Averaging 28mpg in the A4)- Seat belts to far behind to reach in my driving position - Interior of the car starting to creak in the cold over bumpy roads (not noticable if the radio is on)- Whinny transmission when in reverse. Went out w/ colleague and freak the living daylights out of her when she heard it. Had to explain that it is a FEATURE of Honda. It is really loud when radio if off and no other traffic around. But it is a Honda feature, like the defective AC System- Dash lighting is poor. Orange color makes it hard to read around dusk time- More to come
Features do you no good when you are in a loaner car because yours is in the shop.
The GTI doesn't sell..Period. They don't give em away because they know better than to send them here. If the GTI sells on it's merits I guess so does the regular Civic. The Golf has NO merits without the GTI is what you are saying huh? A total of 30,000 unit a year pales in comparison to the Civic. And since the Civic is such a "tin can" it's a wonder why they can sell over 10 TIMES as many of them as they do Golfs. Even with all the standard features.
Still stuck on the residual huh. I don't lease so it doesn't matter to me. And few people buy VW's so I guess it wouldn't matter much to anyone else.
But the Accord and Civic sell 800,000 units a year and still have stellar resale. That speaks louder than a car few people want new.
But as usual a bunch of personal anecdotes with no credible backing.
Here's a couple links.http://www.autonews.com/news.cms?newsId=4042Survey scores1. Lexus 1692. Toyota 1463. Saturn 1444. BMW 1385. Honda 1326. Hyundai 1327. Acura 1298. Volvo 1269. Mitsubishi 12210. Kia 12111. Nissan 12012. Porsche 11813. Mercedes-Benz 11714. Subaru 11615. Audi 11516. Suzuki 11517. Mazda 11318. GMC 11219. Infiniti 11220. Cadillac 11021. Chevrolet 11022. Saab 108Industry average 108Below average (in alphabetical order)BuickChryslerDodgeFordIsuzuJeepLincolnMercuryOldsmobilePontiacVolkswagenDaewoo, Hummer, Jaguar, Land Rover and Mini were not ranked due to small sample sizes.Wheres's VW? Oh yeah at the bottom.
http://www.autonews.com/news.cms?newsId=4024Where does VW rank??? Oh yeah near the bottom.
If I were a VW owner I would leave this one alone. Proven sub-par reliability, proven sub-par resale (compared to Honda), and proven sub-par dealer network.
204 Meca you want to know why there are so many supposedly superior GTI's for sale? Maybe this link'll give a hint.
But it normally is viewed as conservative, not so fun to drive, for example, compared with Ford.
I'm glad you Honda people like your cars - I simply don't and no amount of data you spout about VW's is going to change my mind. I like my GTI and all my previous VW's a lot.
The only two vehicles I own are VW's and BMW's (currently 01 X5, 02 GTI). I actually test drove an MDX when I bought the X5 - I knew I would never be an MDX owner just sitting behind the wheel - Honda's just don't have that European feel - cheap and low rent comes to mind. But hey I did compare the X5 to something when I was "shopping". The only other marque I'm a fan of is Land Rover - I put 160k miles on a Range Rover (what the X5 replaced) that Rangie had it's quirks but it was one of the best vehicles I've ever owned - I'd have traded it for another one if I hadn't been transferred to the sunbelt and had no earthly need for one.
You Honda guys will never own a VW, Land Rover or BMW - that would be way too close to living on the edge for you - we are not the same type of car people. I say let's agree to disagree.
Here is a glimpse of what I'm talking about - I'm already looking at the replacement of my 02 GTI - by the middle of next year I will be driving one of these - when I see and hear this VW it get me excited, gives me that "something" that no Honda will ever, ever do. I put my $1k deposit down on an R32 yesterday - can't wait.
All wheel drive, 3.2 liter 241 HP VR6, 6 speed, Konig leather sport seats, climatronic, Xenon headlights with washers, DVD based Nav, rain sensing wipers, 18" wheels to name a few features. All for $32K the price of 2 heavily discounted 02 SI's (saw Honda dealer add in yesterday's paper - 02 SI's are STILL available for $16k). I think the R32 is a screaming deal for this level of performance - I can not wait!!!!
I just bought another Honda yesterday. A 03 EX-L 5 speed coupe Accord. 36 mo. lease 15k year for 325 mo. I'll be happy with that until I get my V6 6 speed after they start making them in decent numbers.
The X5, you are right I would not buy. "Used car to avoid", new car I don't need. I would own a BMW. If the 3-series had more value for the dollar. The 5 series is THE car to own in it's class. I would buy one if I had the need for a new larger sedan.
I'm not trying to change YOUR mind. Just show you that your decision is all built on emotion and not fact. I know the Civic is not selling as well as Honda thought they would. They planned on selling 15,000 SI's in a market that as rule does not buy many hatchbacks. And I also know the VW will do just fine in the numbers that they want to sell them. It sounds like a very capable car. I would want one too. But as with most VW's they are limiting production to keep prices up. 5000 worldwide."Of the 5000 models that will be built before the arrival of the next-generation Golf in a year, some could come to the U.S."http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/carnews/0211_upfront_golf.xml
Better order yours now. But better watch out for the EVO, STI, and lowly NEON SRT out to kill ya. Nearly 3600 pounds is a lot to stretch only 237hp with inefficient 4 wheel drive. But hey it has those rain sensing wipers.
I will agree with you on one thing. Every time i have driven a VW I did like the drive. As I have said many times before VW's DRIVE. They have a feel that is hard to describe. Locked down solid driving lil cars they are. So I know how you feel about them. Look at each of our "garage's" you can tell we will never agree on much else though.
An X5 makes no real sense to me. One of the smallest interiored SUV's on the road. I'm sure it drives very Bimmerish but shoulda just bought a 5 series. GTI...Been there. Land Rover???? Quirks??? I'll bet.
Of course one possibly off production Civic should deem Hondas quality slipping when nearly every other review of the Civic is glowing.http://auto.consumerguide.com/auto/new/reviews/full/index.cfm/id/20836.htmor maybe in Irelandhttp://www.motornet.ie/news/templates/mntemplate_reviews.asp?articleid=2122&zoneid=2Everyone else loves the little Civic.Who cares about a warranty...I don't want to use it in the first place. Warranty does you no good if you have 30 minutes to get to work and your car won't start. We are on our 5th new Honda product and have only required warranty service once. We returned a Civic 4 months after purchasing it because we found metal shavings in the exterior paint. Honda gave us $1000 and an 1999 EX Accord at cost. They also were very generous on the trade of the Civic. Won us over. They didn't have to do anything for us.You were wrong too, the R32 weighs 3350 according to the link above. Turn dypos.
Not everyone likes the R32 either hmm.http://www.carkeys.co.uk/roadtest/RT000255.htmHe called it a little nose heavy. 3.2L may be a little too much in the nose of such a small car.
Maybe in the modification to meet crash standards they had to make it a little heavier.http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=vw&cat_code=v_home&loc_code=index&content_code=04234578That's why Car and Driver says it weighs 3350lbs. Could be that way in U.S. trim since the lighter weight is what the Euro one weighs.http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/carnews/0211_upfront_golf.xml
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