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Honda Civic Si vs. VW GTI



  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,868
    Maybe Honda has only sold 16 Si's in the 10 months they have been available;)
  • I didn't look hard enough to find the consumer ratings 204meca gives. I do see on Edmunds 'all Civics' get a 9.0 while "all GTI's" get an 8.5. I think those ratings are hard to compare since "Civics" includes the range of body styles, engines, target markets.

    Good point, Gee; short term ownership makes the reliability/durability issue almost irrelevant, and a lease gives one absolute foreknowledge of the depreciation.
    LOL, reminds me of my 5.0 Mustang (I loved it). It would have been best to own during miles 2000-45,000 when there were no durability/reliability issues.
  • Honda has sold at least 6 here. I know 2 people who own them and see a few on the roads around here so saying they only sold 16 is a bit of an understatement.
  • only joshing. Actually here in Austin, TX I have yet to see an SI except on the dealer's lot, but there is an NSX down the street from me.

    Come to think of it I haven't seen an SVT Foucs either of which I've heard there was almost 5000 produced for model year 2002.

    So were there actually 15,000 SIs prodcued for 2002?

    Anyone know how many will be produced for 2003?

    Just passed the 10k mark this weekend on my 2002 GTI 1.8t. The left rear window makes a squeking noise sometimes now since I got back from my Thanksgiving weekend trip. I went to Big Bend National Park and took some of the unpaved roads(as shortcuts) and got this along with a slight gash in my oil pan from a rather large rock. Luckily no leaks or other problems.

    Car was great though and versatile enough for a two person camping trip. I even put a 12 foot plus inflatable canoe(deflated of course) in the rear of the car so we could go rafting on the Rio Grande. The rental shop said there were no good tie downs in the front of the car for a convential canoe. Still we had a blast and it "only" took me about 2 hours to clean up the car after I got back.
  • The Squeak you hear are the door seals - the thick rubber door seal is dry - Put some type of rubber/ vinyl preservative on them and the squeaking sound will disappear. Almost 14k miles on my 02 1.8t GTI without a single problem. Still makes me smile every time I drive it.
  • sunilbsunilb Posts: 407
    when my '99 Si was stolen (10/01), the insurance company did a study of what similar cars (same car, yr, and similar mileage) were selling for in my area (LA at the time) and gave me the average selling price + tax + DMV fees.

    It turned out to be slightly less than what KBB and Edmunds TMV was, but since they had the comps (which are real, whereas KBB and TMV are estimates), I was satisfied.

    The saddest thing, of course, was seeing my car after the cops had found it--- completely stripped, and really only a shell (ie, the body was there, but nothing inside or under the hood!).
  • Yep, I'm bummed, too, that my '99 SI is gone. Dunno if I'll ever see mine again; it's reported a blue Honda was the get-away car from a bank robbery. I figure it's ditched deep.

    I hope to get as good a settlement as yours. My ins. co. is stalling, which is dumb since they're paying for a rental. How long did you wait?
  • sunilbsunilb Posts: 407
    I completely empathize with you... it's such an awful feeling having a car stolen.

    My car was missing for ~ 5 days. Once it was found, the insurance company brought it to a body shop to work up an estimate on how much it would cost to get it up and running (they have a rule that if it's more than 80% of the wholesale price, then it's considered totalled). Well, mine had NOTHING under the hood, no seats, no gauges, no wheels.... obviously, it was deemed a total loss.

    After that, they did a market survey (as I mentioned earlier). The whole process took around two months.

    I really miss that car (it wasn't my first car, but first new one... and my first Honda).

    Well, now I know why insurance rates are so high on Hondas (has the new immoblizer lowered rates for the new SIs?).
  • Mine has been gone 2 weeks, now; and I think it is gone for good.

    I sure hope I can get a settlement sooner than 2 months!

    I dunno if the new immoblizer has lowered rates for the new SI's. Makes sense that it would, and I hope it does since I'm planning on a new SI.
  • Thanks for the tip.

    So have you done any mods to your GTI?

    About the only thing I've done to mine is a dieselgeek short shifter which it desperately needed as I hate long throws.

    I think the first thing to address is the suspension. I've heard that there are strut/spring packages that preserve most of the ride qualities while improving the handling enormously.

    Didn't you also say you owned an BMW X5. This leads me to the obvious question - which handles better your GTI or it?
  • Heck yes I've done mods to my 02 1.8t GTI - I've transformed it into a little beast. I went with the Audi TT shifter, it doesn't shorten the throws as much as dieselgeek but it's a nice compromise for $36 at the Audi dealer - A freind of mine has a dieselgeek on his VR6 GTI.

    As far as suspension goes I've done a lot - I like a really tight suspension and live in the sunbelt with nice smooth roads. From Neuspeed I've got - race springs (lowers it 2"), upper front stress bar, lower front tie bar, 25mm adjustable rear sway bar. For struts/shocks I went with yellow Koni sport adjustables. I'm still trying to wear out the original 17" Michelin Pilot Sports so I can put some Falken Azenis on it. I want to get a rear stress bar as well - these stress bars are mainly for the track - not needed at all for every day driving.

    This is a very aggressive suspension I track it on the weekends with SCCA AutoX. Believe it or not it isn't that rough as long as I keep the Koni's on a softer setting for the street.

    To give the GTI a good all around and perfectly comfortable suspension, here is what I'd recommend. I'd start with a sport spring with the factory struts/ shocks, they lower it about an inch, firm the ride up just right and reduce sway. VW has them in their accessory catalog but I'd get them from Tire Rack. They are the Eibach sport springs - exactly what VW sells for about $80 less. The next step would be a rear sway bar - I like the Neuspeed 25mm because it bolts right on, is adjustable (keep it in the lowest setting) and does wonders for the handling. You don't need to do anything with the front sway bar as long as you don't go any bigger than a 25mm rear sway bar. Just these two mods will transform the rather soft factory suspension into a very nicely tightened up suspension that's not rough at all. A good place to get Neuspeed products is or try a local tuner shop if you have one in your area.

    For the 1.8t I had the ECU reprgammed by APR - amazing. Neuspeed: turbo inlet pipe, downpipe and Eurosport exhaust (perfect mellow tone, not loud at all) a Forge diverter valve (to handle the extra boost) and a K&N lifetime air filter in the factory box. OMG - I can easily keep up with a friends 00 BMW MCoupe no problemo 330 3 series are no contest at all, stock S4's, blow the doors off IS300's - a blast.

    About the only other mod is I replaced the factory motor mount bushings (also known as the dog bone) with poly ones from (the $16 ones) takes all of 15 minutes and is amazing how it improves shifting and motor movement under hard acceleration - the only minor drawback is you feel a very slight vibration at idle.

    The VW drivetrain is close to bulletproof, especially that 1.8t engine, amazingly over-engineered. The 1.8t can handle 300 HP with no internal modifications. I have had no problems with my modified GTI whatsoever in 14 months and 15k miles with a fair amount of them track miles. These mods have been on the car since 2k miles.

    The first question I'm asked about is the warranty - it's still fully intact except for the parts that aren't VW parts obviously. My VW dealer is mod freindly and doesn't void warranty because of mods. Most of the techs and service advisors have hooked up VW's that are as reliable as mine - VW mechanicals are amazingly stout, my GTI feels like a little tank and regularly embarasses "sports" cars that cost twice as much.

    My X5 is completely stock and handles amazingly well for an "SAV". It would be interesting to see how it compares to a stock GTI.
  • 204meca204meca Posts: 370
    After 4 months of seemingly endless research, multiple test drives, dealer negotiations, I finally made a decision. It took a 200 mile test drive in the Elantra GT to convince my wife & I we could pass up the 02 VW GTI & 02 Civic Si for the Elantra GT.

    All above cars are nice, all have some flaws & reliablity questions. In terms of my overall overall performance & comfort evaluation, the Elanta GT comes in 3rd, extremely close to the Si. In the end the Elanta GT met & exceeded all my needs, has a better warranty, lower cost to own, and cost over $3000 less than the closest competitor (both 02 models). Truth is, I just did not want to pay more than $7K!

    I purchased the HGT with sunroof for $6,070 cash (including Tax & license!) plus my 97 Del Sol Si. I still have plety of money left over for a strut bar and better bigger tires (on OE rims). Time will tell if this was the best decision. I suspect I will occasionally long for cheap summer thrill of the SOC VTEC running thru the gears with the top down, but right now I am quite happy!

    I appreciate all the help I have gotten on Edmunds! I will miss you, it is time to get on to real life priorities.

    PS Please pray for a peacefull solution to the Iraq situation.
  • 8u6hfd8u6hfd Posts: 1,391
    How about Venezuela?

    They are a major supplier of oil for the US
  • I saw my first GTI (red, VR6) on the street today. It looked very cute.

    I saw my first Si (from the outside) on the street day before yesterday, a black one. My GF said it looks 'chopped off', unlike my white one. (She likes me, though.)
  • People at my job think my white one looks better than this black one that another co-worker has. I think it looks better too ... but I guess that's obvious.
  • rclab1rclab1 Posts: 2
    hello, does anyone know the MSRP
    for this Golf?

     2003 1.8 GTI w/autoStick transmission
       with Leather, sunroof, 17"wheels

    I live in the UpState NewYork area.

    thank you
  • gsgman69gsgman69 Posts: 75
    under New Cars|VW|GTI|2003

    You might want to think about getting ESP for a great price of $280. The only other car in this class that has this worthwhile feature is, I believe, the Mini.

    Just curious too on why you want the tiptronic manumatic cause it just adds cost and makes it slower. The 5 speeds in VWs are easy to learn to drive and will probably increase the resale values on GTIs in particular.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,868
    I question whether 5 speed increases or decreases resale value. It is getting difficult to sell a 5 speed since most people do not know how to drive them. I just sold my Si and have sold a 5 speed VW w/in the last two years and the 5 speeds are becoming difficult to market. The Si and GTI are very enjoyable and easy to drive with manual. Sad fact is that even with a higher than average acceptance among Honda and VW buyers for manual transmission there is declining demand for manual and increasing demand for automatic.
  • gsgman69gsgman69 Posts: 75
    I say that because it seems Focus SVTs and Civic SIs are closer to each other in price(as well as configuration/intent) now than the SI is to the GTI.

    The $16k battle of the Ford hot hatch vs. the Honda hot hatch.

    Me, I would take the SVT but only if I could get a good warranty of say 5/60000 or above.
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Posts: 4,202
    mopar: Did you trade the SI or sell it? Did you buy something else?
  • revkarevka Posts: 1,750
    Since it's been slow here for quite some time, this discussion may soon be closed and archived. Any more thoughts to share on this subject? ;-)

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