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Toyota Tacoma vs. Ford Ranger, Part XII



  • rickc5rickc5 Posts: 378
    Question: Do you have Adobe Acrobat?

    If so, tomorrow I will send you the PROOF you have been asking for. Specifically, I will send you copies of the window sticker AND the Bill of Sale for the Ranger I purchased six months ago.

    All I ask in return is that you post something to the forum regarding the FACT that you have seen what at least one Ranger owner paid for his truck compared to the window sticker.

    Is that fair enough? Is there anything else you need for proof?
  • Well turns out they have to replace one of the upper control arms in my ranger. Thats at 33500 miles. Got another 2500 miles on the warantee, I tell you Im not looking forward to the next year without a warantee.
  • bessbess Posts: 972
    a. Ok, I agree with you that it is not fair to match the Ranger 4door supercab to the Tacoma doublecab.. Ford simply offers trucks that Toyota can't match..
    Tacoma xtracab is a match with Ranger supercab (2door)
    Tacoma doublcab is a match with the Sport Trac (4 real doors, extrashort bed)
    Ranger 4door supercab has no matching Tacoma.

    b. it is ok for us to compare MSRP to MSRP, (both Tacomas AND Rangers are commonly being sold for around $2000 less than MSRP). So both manufactures are discounting about the same. Our experiences show this, and Edmunds TMV's also show this. (This may differ from some other 'Ford supporter' opinions, but it seems to be true).

    c. Comparing MSRP to MSRP we can use Scorpios truck. His Tacoma xtra cab looked alot like the Ranger that Pluto mentioned, and the price was about the same except:
    Scorpios xtra cab did not have an automatic tranny and the ranger did (thats a full $1000 right there)
    Scorpios xtra cab did not have ABS (another $300).
    Scorpios xtra cab did not have 4 doors.

    To get that, you have to go to the doublecab, which as I've shown is a good $3500 more than the comparable Ranger..

    On the 4doors and mini-trucks, I think Ford has the best choices..
    If you want the extra doors for convience of loading/unloading stuff from the back (rather than adults), and yet retain a reasonable sized bed, you can get a 4door supercab Ranger..

    If you want the extra doors that are more designed for people, and go with a smaller bed, then get the Sport Trac.

    So, if you want to compare the most similar truck, compare the Ranger supercab (2door) to the Tacoma xtracab (which is 2door).

    The difference in price if you equip them similarly is in the $2200 or more. (Compare Scorpios truck MSRP to the Ranger MSRP), you'll see what I mean.
  • sc0rpi0sc0rpi0 Posts: 897
    You're twisting the facts in your favor.
    DoubleCab is called doublecab not because it has 4 doors, but because it actually offers comfortable rear row seating. Does Ford have a Ranger that offers that? No. Explorer SportTrac doesn't count ('s an Explorer).
    So yes, Ranger has an edge in that it offers an Xtracab model with 4 doors, but Toyota has an edge in that it actually offers a doublecab version of the truck.
    And so, with auto tranny and ABS MSRP ov my truck is up by $1200, and the whole thing is MSRPed at about 24500 or so.
    Lets not bring Explorer into the picture because it's not really ...anything? It's Fords' futule attempt at making a truck with 4 real doors (not suicide doors). Unfortunately, Tacoma DC is still a Tacoma, and Explorer SportTrac is still an Explorer, no matter how much it'd like to be a Ranger.
  • ...just not in the States.

  • bessbess Posts: 972
    How is the Explorer sport trac that much different from the Tacoma double cab?

    Sport Trac has slightly higher towing capacity.
    Sport Trac has slightly higher payload capacity.
    More interior space (especially for back seat)
    Head: 38.7 vs 37.7
    Shoulder: 56.9 vs 53.5
    Hip: 52.7 vs 50.8
    Leg: 37.8 vs 33.7

    Remember the Sport Trac is still based on the 'old' Explorer chassis which was basically a Ranger.

    If your doing alot of off-roading, then perhaps the Tacoma has an advantage (much better ground clearance, locker availablity), but for the type of 'off-roading' that 90% of americans do the 4x4 Sport Trac is more than capable and in more comfort.

    So Ford futile attempt to make a truck with 4 real doors seems to stack up rather well against the Tacoma. No matter what you call it.
  • bessbess Posts: 972
    If I had to pick 'today' a crew cab mini-pickup, I'd probably lean towards the Nissan, simply because they have a crew cab + longer bed.

    I won't get into what manufactures make in what countries. I've seen so many Honda and Toyota variations on their vehicles during my visits to Japan, that it made my head spin..
  • all i can say is wow!!
    a few thoughts.

    1- as much as i would like to agree, i can't. the sport-trac really isn't a true off-roader. although im sure it could take some punishment if you yanked those queer bars off and put on some BFG's. put on a locker and insert 6 discs into the mach audio, open up the moonroof and start pounding it. note to pluto- this is what we do to our 4x4's. we actually engage the transfer case.
    2- pluto is still the laughing stalk of this forum. clearly he is not an american, and thus is always enraged and jealous of us.
    3- the 4.6 liter ford still has more torque than any of these new toyota forerunner engines you're bragging about i believe. 315 lb/ft.
    4- stang is by far the deepest thinker here and deserves a lot of respect.
    5- i would love to see a copy of that window sticker pluto. i do believe that ALL 2003 ford ranger 4x4's come with the FX4 optional off-road pkg, XLT's anyways. with the level II FX4 being optional. so maybe the model you were looking at (if it was a 2003) had the the FX4 pkg and you were just too ignorant to notice. high likelihood)
    6- sad- you are proving to be very young and naive on this board. you need to rethink who you take facts from and find out who are the jokers here. i am not a BS'er. i will go on record as saying that i know more about models/makes of a lot of manufacturers and their options/engines than anyone here. so if i say something, you can take it to the bank. take that for what you want, but if i were you, i would listen to me. i know what im talking about. i know a little about a lot.
    7- just picked up my new '03 yamaha blaster. it's a blast. woohoo.
    8- oh yeah, Simpson College just got ranked #1 in the midwest again. as stang or someone would say, "oh the insanity". or humility or something like that.
    9- as usual, still a blast around here and the debates are still a ragin'.
    10- saw a tacoma double cab TRD today in red (no running boards thank god), sweet truck. probably will be my next truck if ford doesn't offer coil over on their next ranger along with four doors.
  • stang:

    "Even this Texan with a "flawed vernacular" (which that term, in itself, is a contradiction in definition)..."

    Are you trying to say that "flawed vernacular" is an oxymoron? That's EXACTLY what I'm talking about. Your screwy Texas English (or vernacular) is causing us communication problems! Y tu espanol es lleno de errores, tambien!


    What exactly are you going to prove? That you bought your truck for much less than the MSRP? I did too. And as I just illustrated, it doesn't seem the Ranger's MSRP is that much lower than the Tacoma's. It doesn't get any simpler than that.


    "pluto is still the laughing stalk of this forum. clearly he is not an american, and thus is always enraged and jealous of us"

    Excuse me? I'm every bit as much a U.S. citizen as you, thank you. Though the U.S. doesn't officially recognize the concept of dual citizenship, that's what happens when you're born abroad to U.S. citizen parents.

    Glad you liked that double-cab Tacoma TRD. Just curious, why are you considering another vehicle already???
  • rickc5rickc5 Posts: 378
    You said: Still wondering if the Ranger's price advantage is "real."

    I just e-mailed you the proof you asked for.

    I paid $19,447 for a Ranger that retailed (sticker) for $26,280 before discounts and rebates. That's what I paid, and that's REAL, buddy.

    MSRP prices mean nothing. Its what a person actually pays that counts.

    Also note that my Ranger XLT is fully loaded.
  • rickc5rickc5 Posts: 378
    If you post a valid email address, I'll send you what I tried to send a few minutes ago.
  • I didn't get your e-mail because my hotmail account had been temporarily de-activated. It's up and running again if you would care to send your information once more.

    Does your price of $19,447 include TTL? If it doesn't, I would say I did as well as you with my Tacoma. Either way, it sounds like you got a stellar deal.

    But what makes you think a Tacoma can't be bought without rebates, incentives and negotiation? I bought my truck (stickered for $25k) for $22,500 drive-out. I estimate before TTL, the truck cost me $20K (comparable to your $19,447 if that is before TTL).

    MSRP doesn't mean squat in the real world. I agree. But after reading here how much cheaper Rangers are than Tacomas, I was a little shocked to see a $24K Ranger with no PW, PL, PM, bucket seats, off-road package, bedliner, etc. Heck, I think a Tacoma with the SR5 package would come better equipped at the same sticker price.

    You say your truck is loaded. Did it come equipped with the off-road FX4 package? Mine did (TRD), and it stickered for less. The only thing I don't have is power mirrors and the 6 disk cd-changer.

    In short, it seems like the MSRPs on both trucks are about the same. If either truck offers a price advantage, it comes through more aggressive rebates, incentives and negotiation. I would be more than happy to introduce you to a few people who did their homework, bought their Toyotas at end of the month/year/end-of-model-year-clearance and walked away with a deal every bit as good as yours.
  • rickc5rickc5 Posts: 378
    Comparing prices after TTL is not a valid comparison, IMHO. Taxes and license fees vary substantially from place to place.

    As I mentioned before, check out the window sticker I sent you. This is a LOADED Ranger, and included a bed liner, which isn't on the sticker for some reason.
  • sc0rpi0sc0rpi0 Posts: 897
    What's with the personal insults?
    "clearly he is not an american, and thus is always enraged and jealous of us."? To bag this along with what you said about me in Liberty Problem forums...
    I think you have a problem of some kind. Quit trying to pass your personal beliefs and lies as facts.
  • rickc5rickc5 Posts: 378
    Comparing prices after TTL is not a valid comparison, IMHO. Taxes and license fees vary substantially from place to place.

    As I mentioned before, check out the window sticker I sent you. This is a LOADED Ranger, and included a bed liner, which isn't on the sticker for some reason.
  • OK, I agree with not including TTL because it does vary from state to state. So before TTL, you paid $19,447 for your Ranger which stickered for just over $26K.

    I paid roughly $20K (drive-out of $22,500 minus 8% sales tax and license and registration fees) for my truck before TTL on my Tacoma TRD which stickered for almost $25K. Again, it's loaded except for power mirrors and the 6 disk cd-changer.

    You beat me by roughly $553. But I can't tell if your truck has the FX4 package or not (tried to download your files but it took too long - damn dial up). If it doesn't, I would say I came out ahead. If it does, you came out ahead by $553.

    Either way, it's close, and the savings aren't amounting to thousands of dollars. In fact, the $553 difference is so small another Ranger buyer could wind up paying it simply because the deal he negotiated wasn't quite as good as yours.

    From my perspective, we paid very close to the same amount for our trucks. The small difference in purchase price (if any) was justified because Toyota has the better reputation for reliability, quality and resale. It had a significantly longer warranty and has proven time and again to be the best off-roader. And I think it's a better looking truck, too.
  • eagle63eagle63 Posts: 599
    this discussion suddenly got pathetic. how old are you guys?
  • You are right Eagle, this verbal sparring doesn't belong in this forum. My posts are now deleted, and I will no longer engage in pluto's bickering.
  • rickc5rickc5 Posts: 378
    Since I haven't the foggiest idea how your truck is equipped (other than it has the TRD package), there's no way to truly make a valid comparison as to which truck may be the better value. You have my window sticker, so you can see that my truck came with tons of standard and optional equipment. Even things like a tow hitch, leather-wrapped steering wheel, fog lamps and side steps.

    However, I DON'T have the FX4 package, as it seemed to be a horrendous increase in cost for items I place little or no value on, like forged wheels or the locker. I do have Ford's "Off-Road Package", which adds things like skid plates and better shocks.
  • but the other day I raised the question about coilovers vs. torsion bars, and you said you had no idea of how they stack up to one another.

    Post 1517: "i don't know if one is better than the other, im not an expert."

    Why now is that 1 of the 2 biggest selling points with the truck? I am glad to see you like the truck and all, but why the change of heart?

    By the way, the 4.6 offers 293 lb-ft torqe at 3500, while the new 4.0 from Yota has 283 at 3400. Maybe that is why the Tacos are looking better by the day, huh?

    And STANG---> You are just the guy I might need to talk to in a couple of years. I have an old '67 in my driveway that I used about 3 years ago as my daily driver. It has been in my family since it was bought new. Its that lgt yellow color, and has the 200ci I-6. Man its a dog. My dream is to one day fix it up NICE. I won't let my dad sell it. I mean this thing even has 4 lug axles. It will need everything to be how i want it and hopefully everything is what I'll be able to give it. The color will definitely stay though! I will say this, its hella easy to work on. I used to have to change out starters regularly, and it took like 5 minutes. Lots of room under that hood -- and that will hopefully be fixed in short order. Any suggestions?
  • It all depends on what you want to do with it. My father is a 2nd owner of a straight six (200ci) 66 mustang coupe which he has recently restored. It's not prize show material, but it is exactly stock except for rebuilt heads when unleaded gas was mandated. it's reupolstered and repainted, and even has the original A/C.

    I took a '67 coupe with a 289 v-8 home one day and took it down to the frame(well subframe anyway). I turned my mustang into a bracket car. It's not stock, I put a 460 rat motor I had rebuilt into it, and the interior is totally gutted. It runs mid 11's down the quarter mile when naturally aspired.

    So it all depends on what you want, and what you have. When I picked up my mustang, it used to be a mexican drug runner. I bought it running for 800 bucks. It had a smashed up windshield, a rat's nest in the back seat, and rust coming through the floorboard. It's 289 v8 (non HiPo) was fairly new, but the transmission and clutch were about to go. It's a unibody, so there is not a solid frame running from front to rear. There are two subframes, front and rear. I welded in a Total Control products subframe connector and X-bar. It's real mean looking too.

    I then installed a 8 point roll cage I ordered from Jegs. I topped that off with adjustable strut tower braces from the same company. That made the car as stiff as a board, and then I started on the rear end. I installed a 4-link with reinforced 9-inch rear end with welded gears, and worked the metal to add tire clearance. Removed the fuel tank, welded in some support bars, tied in the rear of the roll cage, and then I started to replace the entire floor pan. I believe I ordered the stamped steel from Mustangs Unlimited, and that was quite an ordeal. I replaced the entire interior floor, from under the backseat, all the way up to the firewall. Everything except the transmission hump that is. Then I tore out the dash, and all the electronics had to go. I pop riveted a steel sheet to create a new place to mount new instruments. After that I stripped all the exterior trim, sand blasted them, and salvaged all I could.

    If you want to go that route, you will need a plasma cutter, welder, sand blaster, about 18 months and about 4-5 grand.

    Then I painted her a silvery black color, and hence the Midnight Stang was born.

    I did 80% of the work myself, except the drive train internals, which I took to the local shops to do.

    I had funny car aspirations, but a limited budget and time.

    Anyway, after writing all this I realize you probably just want to restore, in which case you will probably have a much easier time. What I can tell you is the aftermarket is filled with restoration (or performance) items on any Ford vehicle old or new. 1967 was the first year the mustang received a big block, in the form of a 390. I also love the 67's because of their unique side molding. Alas my car is up for sale, and will likely become part of a down payment towards a house. I'll probably get about what I put into it, minus my time of course, but it will be something I'll always remember.

    So the biggest things to look for are rust underneath, twist in the chassis, and sag in the shock towers. The straight six has some torque, but suffers in the performance department. My fathers still has the original 1 barrel carb. Best place to start is by ordering all the free catalogs you can.

    PS. Pluto can criticize any spelling or grammer error he wants to in this post if he wants to. I don't care because I am in a hurry to finish it.
  • Tbunders statements, i.e., "I am not a BS'er", "I will go on record as saying that i know more about models/makes of a lot of manufacturers and their options/engines than anyone here", "so if i say something, you can take it to the bank" and "I know what im talking about" are pretty amusing. Sorry tbund but when we think of mental prowess your name is well below the top of the list in this forum. Your insults to other contributors and bragging about a college that most of us have never heard of doesn't help much either. Rather than insults, try a little factual truck information for a change or most of us will continue to laugh at your posts.
  • whatever you say bud. for some of us, it's hard to get a good education. and for you, it looks like it was darn near impossible. we forgive you bud. now go back into that patch you call heaven. you know, with the deer urine and such. call me if you need pulled up that steep hill you avoid to get there.
    otherwise, ill go head to head with you anyday on any subject.
  • the ONLY reason i would prefer a coil over is that is what the ranger started out as. and i also don't really like the torsion bars hanging down there. granted, rangers come with skidplates to protect their torsion bar mounts, it is nice to know my jeeps torsion bars don't exist. plus, a coil over susp. just looks cooler imo. im not saying the ZR2 or ranger can't cut it, god knows i know they can. i just prefer the new thing. however, i doubt ford will do this due to their massive cost cuts on every vehicle. plus, the ranger probably won't be updated for three years.
    that torque number you stated earlier is in favor of the ford 4.6. what are you talking about? id rather have ten more lb/ft of torque at 100 more rpms. having ten less lb/ft at 100 rpms less is a disadvantage. plus, in three years, im assuming ford will have an all new V8 to stick in the new ranger.
  • isn't your truck a 5-spd?
    either way, a loaded TRD x-tra cab, all of them that ive ever seen are easily $24-$25000. and DC's are never less than $26000.
    my ranger stickered for $23900 and change. i paid a little under $20000 for it. and it came with a $2000 ford rebate. also, remember that ford XLT 4.0's come with step bars, bed rails or you can delete this option, just like the old STX tape stripe delete. also, most XLT rangers have sliding rear window and the off-road pkg as standard equipment. plus, aluminum wheels and 31" tires are standard on 4x4 rangers. these are both options (and expensive ones at that) on any tacoma. identically equipped rangers and tacomas will have the ranger at least $2000 less than the tacoma. if you want, ill go to both dealers and prove it to you. we can spec each truck out identically. it can be done. ill try to do it online.
  • the 4.6 still has better numbers, but what are those specs on Ford's 4.0L again -- nowhere near the 4.6 of any make.

    Rangers started out with a coilOVER?? U sure it wasn't a coil sprung suspension? I don't know, but I thought it was a fairly new thing??

    Coilovers definitely perform better in every "testing" situation. You have good taste!
  • okay, all ive been hearing for the last couple days is how awesome this new suv is and how you can't wait for the tacoma twin of it to come out. did you read the article?

    9.1 inches of ground clearance? my jeep has 10.2. lol

    here's something you tacoma guys won't like- they're using the same rear torsen LSD as FX4 rangers use. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

    75 cubic feet of cargo space? you truck guys won't care, but my jeep has 70 cubic feet.

    can you say nissan frontier copy cat? and you guys said the frontier was from outer space. scorp actually said this. this new forerunner is all plastic and lights from the front. and again, no towhooks to be seen.

    you guys better hope your new taco doesn't follow suit. cuz if it does, i doubt it will be "beating" any wrangler (with open diff and all) or hummer in any five year old off-road tests. maybe pluto does have something with his old truck. at least his will still have the true locker, right? go toyota!!!!!!!!!!!to the yuppies that is.
  • comparing the ford 4.0 V6 to the ford 4.6 V8 is ludicrous. what are you getting at? the 4.0 SOHC is right now. here and now. comparing it to the new toyota 4.0 (which is where i think you're going) in a tacoma that isn't even out isn't really a fair comparison. this engine isn't even in a tacoma. so let's talk about the present. once the taco gets this new 4.0, ill bow down to you. but actions speak louder than words. i will be surprised if the V8 is offered in taco. why would toyota cannibalize itself like that? the tundra wouldn't sell if the taco suddenly got larger (remember, taco and tundra aren't that far away right now in size) and offered the same engine. i see the 4.0 going in, but nothing else. they'll probably keep the 3.4 around for base offerings and say goodbye to the 4. this is of course all speculation, but i only see two engines being offered right now in taco.

    you're right- early ford rangers weren't coil over- just sprung. really the same thing though. btw, pre-98 rangers would articulate better than any other small truck without a solid front axle.
  • sc0rpi0sc0rpi0 Posts: 897
    Nobody is sure what the new gen of 4Runner is, and especially what new Tacoma will be, since 4Runner and Taco have been trying to split paths lately, but one thing is almost certain: Tacoma will get a bigger engine, that'll put 4.0L Ranger has now to shame. You can talk about how 4 years from now Ranger will have a V8....what matters is that this time next year Tacoma will have a bigger engine than Ranger. Isn't that your last line of defense, bundy? And Ranger will have a new 12-CD changer, a DVD player and PS2 station built-in. Go Ford!!!!!to the yuppies that is.
This discussion has been closed.