Volkswagen Phaeton

laithy_74

laithy_74

http://www.vwvortex.com/news/12_01/12_12/index.shtml

taurus2

I wouldn't pay over $30,000 for a VW.

justin

no matter how much it costs. it is finally another option that is sorely needed in that market.

teo

Yep, it will sell when VW cleans up its service and customer support act together.

It puzzles me Dr Piech's idea behind this car. What about Audi? Why compete with Audi?

Dr. Piech's Phaeton is prime example of his usual Mr. Jekill personality.

VW's are nice cars but way far from being truly luxurious high performance machines.

merc1

I've been waiting for someone to open this issue. This big-bucks VW is just VW's version of the next A8. The main difference being the A8's aluminum construction and it's styling. I think the new SUV is sorely needed for VW and the Passat W8 makes a nice halo car, but that should be it. This 50K+ VW is going to run into serious price resistance, though if it's successful it will hurt Audi. Audi just now hitting it's stride in this country again, now VW is going to make it all murky by offering the same car much less. The Passat is no harm to Audi, but this Phaeton will be. A W12 Phaeton for 70K will make a W12 A8 for 90K a very tough sell.

M

bobbyknight

What is exactly going on with VW? Don't they know they have TWO luxury brands already? I really thought that the Passat W8 was pointless, now I think that the Phaeton is equally pointless. I guess VW's are the hot thing right now, but I don't know why anyone would buy a 70K VW, let alone a 37K one.

Here's a wacky idea, how about keep VW the economic brand and Audi the luxury brand. Is that such radical thinking? I don't honestly think that VW can sell the Phaeton next to a 17K Jetta or Golf. In addition, VW dealers really need an update to compete with some of the gorgeous new Audi, BMW, MB, Lexus, and Infinti dealers. I say if they were really serious about the lux segment, they would have to totally update 50-75% of their dealers.

mlayton694

I'll say this, this Phaeton looks better than any Audi out there, I say dump Audi and let the snobs (those you need a car to improve their self image and confidence) go elsewhere,

Very happy VW owner

bobbyknight

I think the problem with the phaeton is that its looks are so plain, maybe even LS430 plain. Audi's have flair, their styling is destintive and original, the Phaeton is not. Looks like a bigger Passat (although I like the Passat), but thats not the most exciting design out there.

vwguild

For those who doubt the concept...Bear in mind that this car will come with a variety of PowerPlants, and like the S8 & the A8 will be
marketed to a very specific clientele...For a real
good look at what VWAG is all about today I would
direct your attention to: www.glaesernemanufaktur.de/

mlayton694

I'll say this, this Phaeton looks better than any Audi out there, I say dump Audi and let the snobs (those you need a car to improve their self image and confidence) go elsewhere,

Very happy VW owner

laithy_74

I think VW wants to introduce a luxury car mostly to boost sales of its cheaper cars. It is like if the S-class hadn't existed, the C-class sales would have never been so good. VW probably wants to have some of that.

vwguild

the S8 costs about $78,000...well above the pro-
jected $60,000+ figure for the Phaeton...

merc1

Either way it goes this will be a very interesting car. If it flops in the market, it will be easy to buy used. This may be some people's only chance of ever getting into a 12-cylinder car.

M

vwguild

will become the *Benchmark* of Luxury Sedans, and
it will continue to reinforce the Volkswagen concept of Value...

rezo00

untell the wheels fall off because they were built with the VW economy parts instead of the audi parts...check out VW's in consumer reports, talk about reliability problems....

merc1

I doubt if either of those predictions will be true. Lets say the car will fall somewhere in between.

M

vwguild

WWW.GLAESERNEMANUFAKTUR.DE/

merc1

Very impressive. Now if VW could update their U.S. dealers to the same standards as the "Transparent Factory" the Phaeton would surely be a hit, though still at the expense of Audi.

M

rv65

BMW CD maps do work on the Phaeton. All you need are the older cd version. I recommend getting the 2003 5 series DVD. You can get them at www.navteq.com/. They are 200 USD for the whole set or 129.99 for each CD depending on your region.

rezo00

they are not a true franchise....not like say a mcdonalds is....so they really dont have much enforcement of dealership build.

magnetophone

I personally think the Phaeton's ugly!

Audis are so much more beautiful. The reason I think he's building this is because VW has an indestructible positive brand image in Europe.

vwguild

As Steve would say, "That is what makes a market".

machiavelli

I don't think it's a great idea for America. I doubt a $70K VW ill sell in huge numbers. Most people spending that kind of money on a car want an upscale "name", and also an "upscale" dealership experience - like a Lexus, BMW, Mercedes, etc.... Maybe it will go over better in Europe where VW has a better image.

I don't really see the point of VW bringing out a high end car that competes directly with Audi. Just as it wouldn't be a good idea for Toyota to bring out a $70K car to compete with Lexus, or Nissan to bring out a $70K car to compete with Infiniti, etc... What's the point?

merc1

Car Magazine has a great spot on this Phaeton W12 car. First off it's better looking than I thought originally. It's interior and engine are pure Audi, and if priced right it should do fairly well, even here in the U.S. The way I see it everyone, BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, and of course Audi will have duck initially, because this car is touting a 12 cylinder at the price of those brands 8 cylinder cars. The VW dealers will be the stalling of this car from really taking some market away from the usual players in this segment. Hey even if the car fails it will make a great used car a few years later.

M

shoes

Can you imagine taking your $70,000 vehicle to a Volkswagon dealer for service?

big_guy

I don't understand all this "take my car to a VW dealer for service" stuff. Here where I live, the VW dealer is also an Audi and Porsche dealer. So I guess you could say that you are taking your "lowly" VW to an Audi dealership for service or to a Porsche dealership for service.

In contrast, we also have a local dealership that sells Mercedes, Volvo, Jaquar, Mitsubishi, and Hyundai out of the same 1-block mega lot. So I guess someone could say they are taking there Mercedes to a Hyundai dealership for service. It is all in perceptions.

jrosasmc

What exactly is the big deal with VW dealerships?

shoes

You guys have a good point, come to think of it, the service for my Porsche 911 is pretty bad too, so I guess it doesn't matter if they ruin the service experience for a $70,000 sedan or sports car.

vwguild

the Phaeton is introduced here next year the
Volkswagen Brand Standards Initiative will have
been completed and in place for 6 Months...Only
the Dealers that have satisfied these rigorous
requirements, being implemented now, will get
these new Products...Phaeton, SUV, MicroBus,
and probably New Beetle Cabrio as well...

bobbyknight

A Porsche and a 70K VW are very different breeds. One has the Porsche name behind it and the other, well, is a 70K VW.

vwguild

of VWAG, is, in Fact, Ferdy Porsche's Grandson...
Go figure how these things work???

And the Porsche Cayenne and VW Touareg are the result of
a mere $600,000,000.00 joint venture...Is this nepotism?
Is this Incest?? Naw...Just a couple of bumpkin companies
trying to do a deal...

teo

That Cayenne is the ugliest piece of crap ever made this side of the Azztek. What an insult to Porsche itself and its followers.

bjbird2

The Porsche and VW are not different breeds, just different types of vehicles. They both have a common ancestory.

vwguild

we can always count on you for a kind word...:)And
that all of us here have better taste than you do...
You own an Imapala? Like the ones I see down here on the
weekends??? Windows all blacked out??? Oh! yea!!! Got to get
me one of thjose...

teo

Uh?

What was that comment all about???

Take a chill pill, buddy.

Oh and My Impala LS doesn't have tinted windows. Everything is stock and Zaino kept.

You think you are insulting me by bringing up the Impala? Think again!

I like VW's. I helped my sister get a new 2002 VW Golf GL 5-door 3 weeks ago. Great car so far.

Stop jerking around.

magnetophone

Maybe he's talking about your first Impala

vwguild

to be an engine option along with V10 Diesel &
W12...

afty

Is that the same 4.2L V8 used in the Audi A6 and A8?

toyotas1

The VW dealers WILL screw up the word of mouth/marketing on this car. Who will advertise the car locally? Come on in, step over this VW Golf and check out the New VW Photon....I mean Phenom.....I mean Famine? It's only $89900 (after "Market Adjustment"). And, I think, the market is definitely looking for a sedan they can't pronounce! Makes it easy to sound intelligent as they tell their friends about it.....

vwguild

Yes...

Kirstie_H

We are looking for lawyers (any age, sex, kind of car) who are car nuts.

Please respond by March 9 to lordusky@aol.com

Any questions? Contact Edmunds.com PR at jfallon@edmunds.com

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kirstie_h
Roving Host
Edmunds.com

vwguild

check this out and tell me what you think...

WWW.GLAESERNEMANUFAKTUR.DE/

mlayton694

I would be whining too if I spent all of that extra money for an Audi when you can get a similar VW for about 25-40% less. You know whenever you hear people saying "paying $$ for a VW" , you are hearing from an Audi owner who doesnt really know what they paid all of that extra money for !! Bwhahahahaha !! Hmmmm, I paid 10k more for "an Audi" !! RMOA !!!

merc1

Whether or not this car is a "hit" or not it sure does look good. I think for 60K for the W12 version (if that is actually what it's going to cost) it will be a hit. The car really is a looker:

http://www.germancarfans.com/photos.cfm?PhotoID=3020302.001

M

fwatson

I think someone at VW needs to ring up the head of Mazda, and inquire about what happened when they tried to market a new Luxury car under the same name as the lesser cars produced by the company.

In Mazda's case, it was a failure to open the proposed Amati division, then marketing the Millenia as a top of the line Mazda.

The Phaeton looks like "deja vu all over again" to me, despite it's great looks, and no doubt great mechanics. But I can't imagine paying $60000 or more for anything that says Volkswagen on it.

I wish them well.

toyotas1

that the SIX-cylinder version ma sell for less than $50k! I thought the W8 would lead off!! It will have a 241HP six with a stick or 6-speed auto. Then the 420HP W12 or 310HP TDI V-10, later on. If this starting price is true, than the car's BASE PRICE will probably top out at $70k with V-12!!! A $50-70k spread I think is a great idea, as is the manual and TDI V-10. Thought is WOULD be W8, V-10, W12.....

merc1

I'm starting to think this car may have a chance, you can't a V12 from MB,BMW or Audi for anywhere under a 100K.

M

machiavelli

Also, when you get into this type of price range, I don't think you get alot of people penny-pinching or bargain hunting. If you can afford a $70-$80K car, you can afford to buy what you want! It's not like someone who really wanted a 5 series BMW or E class Mercedes getting a Passat instead because they could only afford a $25K car. If you can afford a $80K car, you can afford a $100K car.

merc1

Well thats *somewhat* true, that's how it's supposed to be. You have some that barely got into that 70K car (i.e. really can't afford it, but is managing it), but can't even think of a 100K car.

M

machiavelli

True, but I think the person that can just barely afford the $70K car and is scraping together every last penny to make a $1000 a month lease payment, would want something with a "prestige" name like Mercedes, Lexus, BMW....

The person like a Bill Gates that can easily afford a $100K car will basically buy whatever they want.