Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Have you recently switched from a luxury sedan to a luxury SUV?
A reporter would like to talk to you; please reach out to [email protected] by 7/25 for more details.
Did you get a great deal? Let us know in the Values & Prices Paid section!
Meet your fellow owners in our Owners Clubs

Inconsiderate Drivers (share your stories, etc.)

1788790792793794

Comments

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,934
    Speaking of right turn on red, that's another of my pet peeves... that a lot of people don't realize that it's right turn on red AFTER STOPPING... and only if they have the right of way. The other day, I was turning left on a green arrow, and an old Stratus approached in the opposing right lane, slowed just a bit but didn't come close to stopping, then turned right--right into my path. I had to hit the brakes to avoid hitting him. I gave him a salute with my horn, and he glared at me and gave me an impolite hand gesture.
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 10,874
    backy said:

    Speaking of right turn on red, that's another of my pet peeves... that a lot of people don't realize that it's right turn on red AFTER STOPPING... and only if they have the right of way. The other day, I was turning left on a green arrow, and an old Stratus approached in the opposing right lane, slowed just a bit but didn't come close to stopping, then turned right--right into my path. I had to hit the brakes to avoid hitting him. I gave him a salute with my horn, and he glared at me and gave me an impolite hand gesture.

    Your problem is wholly and solely with the problem of taking your right of way away, and has nothing to do with the act of not stopping on a red for a right turn. Not yielding the right of way is a problem in any scenario in any situation every time, whereas stopping at a red light doesn't guarantee compliance with the other.

    The right of way is the key here. Stopping on right turns is pointless if it isn't required to make a safe turn; which it usually isn't.
    '16 Audi TTS quattro 2.0T, '15 Audi A4 quattro 2.0T, '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6T
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,934
    Yeah, I forgot that the only traffic laws that mean anything to you are the 2 or 3 you happen to agree with.

    Not sure where you got the idea that a Stop light doesn't actually mean Stop, but "Stop if y'all feel like it." Stopping at the red light would have completely taken care of this situation, because had the other driver actually slowed and stopped, I would have already made my turn. Maybe that's why the law says to STOP on a Stop light (or Stop sign), not Stop only if you agree with that law--otherwise it's optional.
  • I agree with you, backy. Some people are very adamant about the stop sign! In a small town bout 20 minutes away from us there is a four way stop. There is a house on the corner there and one day mom and I had went to elma for something. When we were coming up to the intersection we saw there was a hand painted sign that said stop ahead. There's also another sign that says stop means stop.
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 10,874
    backy said:

    Yeah, I forgot that the only traffic laws that mean anything to you are the 2 or 3 you happen to agree with.

    Not sure where you got the idea that a Stop light doesn't actually mean Stop, but "Stop if y'all feel like it." Stopping at the red light would have completely taken care of this situation, because had the other driver actually slowed and stopped, I would have already made my turn. Maybe that's why the law says to STOP on a Stop light (or Stop sign), not Stop only if you agree with that law--otherwise it's optional.

    Two can play at that game. What if you were there a few seconds later, and the timing was different. If they don't see you or just don't care about you, it won't matter if they stop or not if they take your right away and try to cause a collision.

    Yielding to traffic solves the problem 100%. There is no need to stop if you yield to traffic that has the right of way. End of story. Period. Exclamation point!

    Stopping doesn't keep people from moving forward again at inopportune moments. If an intersection has good visibility in all directions, slowing down for conditions provides plenty of time to assess the situation.

    '16 Audi TTS quattro 2.0T, '15 Audi A4 quattro 2.0T, '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6T
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,934
    Fine. You don't like the law that says a Stop light/sign means Stop. What if I don't like the law that says traffic in the left lane should give way to faster moving traffic? What if I don't like minimum speed limit laws on freeways? Yes, two can play that game indeed.

    Here's one reason why stopping is a good idea: stopping gives more time for the driver to observe the intersection, looking for traffic and pedestrians. It can avoid the tragic consequences of, for example, a moving pedestrian aligning exactly in the car's blind spot as the car approaches the intersection. The driver won't see the pedestrian because they're obscured by the blind spot. If the vehicle stops, the driver will be able to observe the pedestrian moving out of the blind spot and into view. It would also allow the pedestrian to look the driver in the eyes to ensure that the driver sees the pedestrian.

    No, just slowing down does NOT give plenty of time to assess all situations. Since someone's health or life may depend on it, why not take a few more seconds out of your extremely important day and STOP THE CAR?
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 10,874
    backy said:

    Fine. You don't like the law that says a Stop light/sign means Stop. What if I don't like the law that says traffic in the left lane should give way to faster moving traffic? What if I don't like minimum speed limit laws on freeways? Yes, two can play that game indeed.

    Here's one reason why stopping is a good idea: stopping gives more time for the driver to observe the intersection, looking for traffic and pedestrians. It can avoid the tragic consequences of, for example, a moving pedestrian aligning exactly in the car's blind spot as the car approaches the intersection. The driver won't see the pedestrian because they're obscured by the blind spot. If the vehicle stops, the driver will be able to observe the pedestrian moving out of the blind spot and into view. It would also allow the pedestrian to look the driver in the eyes to ensure that the driver sees the pedestrian.

    No, just slowing down does NOT give plenty of time to assess all situations. Since someone's health or life may depend on it, why not take a few more seconds out of your extremely important day and STOP THE CAR?

    It's not about not liking one law or another. It is about what is safe and what is not. It is not safe for people to camp in the left lane blocking and impeding faster traffic. It is not safe for people to go too slow on the freeway because speed differentials would become dangerous.

    You are arguing a moot point. Accidents caused during right turns on red lights is such an infinitesimally small number that it is obvious to anyone studying what causes accidents that it doesn't deserve any extra attention as compared to the bigger picture. It is not a real-world problem, and as you've noted, I'm not the only one ignoring the "stop" rule on red lights for right turns.

    Often, a driver doesn't need more time to observe an intersection. I can see from a mile away sometimes that there are no pedestrians at the next intersection. I can see that there are no pedestrians for miles in any direction at some intersections. At intersections where sight lines are reduced, most likely you are travelling slower to being with, so it is all about looking up, looking out, looking ahead, being situationally aware before the last second so you don't need extra seconds to assess the situation.

    The pedestrian can look into the eyes of a driver rolling 5 MPH or less through a right turn just as easily as a stopped vehicle by the way, and should do so!

    No one is saying a stop light or stop sign doesn't mean stop here. It just should mean "yield" for right turns, that's all. Also, it is safe to make a left turn onto a one way going left; no need to stop in that situation either.
    '16 Audi TTS quattro 2.0T, '15 Audi A4 quattro 2.0T, '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6T
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,934
    What is not safe about a vehicle traveling at the speed limit in the left lane? How does that impair safety at all? It impairs convenience of the drivers who wish to drive faster than the speed limit, obviously. But there is no adverse effect on safety. It only becomes unsafe if the people driving behind the car in the left lane make an unsafe maneuver, e.g. tailgating or unsafe passing. I am not advocating camping in the left lane. But your argument that it's unsafe in itself is invalid.

    You said, "Often, a driver doesn't need more time to observe an intersection." That's true. Usually, the person turning right on red without stopping won't cause an accident. It's the times they cause an accident - the exceptions - that are the problem.

    I'd like to know how you can tell a mile away that there's no pedestrians when driving in the city, as I was in the incident I talked about. You'd be doing well to see pedestrians 100 feet from that intersection. You'd be doing even better to see a runner or biker that far away.

    A pedestrian can not look into the eyes of a driver when the pedestrian is in the driver's blind spot, i.e. A pillar. I've seen it happen when a moving car's blind spot exactly lines up with the moving pedestrian, and the only way the driver will see the pedestrian is when they clear the blind spot--right before you hit them, if you're still moving.

    It's hilarious that you say "No one is saying a stop light or stop sign doesn't mean stop here", because that is exactly what you're saying. How many people must be injured or killed before ignoring a stop sign/light becomes a problem for you?

    And could you please answer my question: what is so important about a few seconds of your time that you can't stop on red before turning right (or left)?
  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaPosts: 12,920
    You guys are both diluting your arguments by responding to insignificant points in the comments.

    Andres is saying that blind adherence to law (e.g., "the letter of the law") does not de facto enhance safety. Backy saying that adhering to the intent of law does enhance safety. How are these incompatible statements? Let's take a look:

    Does one always need to stop to safely navigate an intersection (Andres' argument)? No. If one *does* stop, does this guarantee safe navigation? No. If one *does* stop *and* observes intersection conditions, is there a higher likelihood of safe navigation than if that same driver did not stop (Backy's argument)? Yes.

    Trying to argue your points by saying that you can judge an intersection a mile away or that camping a left lane does not reduce roadway safety is just dilution of the points you're actually trying to make.
    2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2008 and 2013 Subaru Forester(s), 1969 Chevrolet C20 Pickup, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250 Pickup
  • gogogodzillagogogodzilla VirginiaPosts: 707

    I agree with you, backy. Some people are very adamant about the stop sign! In a small town bout 20 minutes away from us there is a four way stop. There is a house on the corner there and one day mom and I had went to elma for something. When we were coming up to the intersection we saw there was a hand painted sign that said stop ahead. There's also another sign that says stop means stop.

    I thought STOP meant POTS?
  • Lol! Good one! Maybe it does!:-)
  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaPosts: 12,920
    Hello, winter! Welcome back!

    Thank you for reminding me how incompetent so many drivers are, and encouraging them to drive in a manner that clogs the roads. :p
    2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2008 and 2013 Subaru Forester(s), 1969 Chevrolet C20 Pickup, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250 Pickup
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 10,874
    The Solomon curves proves that IF the average pace of traffic is higher than the speed limit, then by default camping in the left lane of the highway at the speed limit will be less safe and more accident prone. Speed differentials are dangerous.
    '16 Audi TTS quattro 2.0T, '15 Audi A4 quattro 2.0T, '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6T
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 10,874
    I honestly don't believe our stop on right turn at red light laws enhance safety anymore than yield on right turn at red light laws would. Even more so, with the way law enforcement operates, I guarantee you they are not writing up right turn violations to the red light "when hazards are created." If they are writing that kind of ticket, it is for revenue generation 99.99999999999999999999999999% of the time; almost always when no other car was present, because they can.
    '16 Audi TTS quattro 2.0T, '15 Audi A4 quattro 2.0T, '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6T
  • I would say that this argument needs to cease. We all know that stop means stop. We also know that the right turn on red is only after you have come to a complete stop. We all learned that in drivers ed I believe. We all know that the number on the black and white sign is the law. It was put there for a reason. And like someone said it is so we can be kept safe. I would say stop arguing and if still in doubt look up the law for your state. Every state is different. Just my thoughts and suggestions.
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 10,874
    I agree the black and white sign is the law, and it was put there for a reason, but that reason is solely policing for profit, and has nothing to do with safety. If it did, it would follow the 85th percentile convention. What they taught you in driver's Ed simply is teaching what they decided the law should be 50 years ago. Is there no room for advancement, improvement, and change?
    '16 Audi TTS quattro 2.0T, '15 Audi A4 quattro 2.0T, '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6T
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,934
    Stopping at a red light has nothing to do with safety?

    Does that mean stops at all Stop signs and Stop signals should be "at driver's discretion"? Oh, what a wonderful world THAT would be. NOT. :@

    Do you drive in urban traffic very often? Not the suburban roads of outer San Diego, but real urban-style roads? I doubt it, based on your disregard for basic traffic laws.
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 10,874
    backy said:

    Stopping at a red light has nothing to do with safety?

    Does that mean stops at all Stop signs and Stop signals should be "at driver's discretion"? Oh, what a wonderful world THAT would be. NOT. :@

    Do you drive in urban traffic very often? Not the suburban roads of outer San Diego, but real urban-style roads? I doubt it, based on your disregard for basic traffic laws.

    I think a large percentage of Stop signs could be safely changed to more appropriately used "Yield" signs. I'll stop short of saying the majority, but it could be true for the majority. It is probably pretty close to 50/50; yet I see 100 stop signs for every yield sign.

    I'll agree that the more "offensive" Stop signs occur in suburban areas. I'm less bothered by them in urban areas.

    And going back to why driving slow in the left lane is dangerous, it is because people will drive a speed comfortable to them regardless of what the speed limit is. If they are impeded in the left/passing lanes then they will be forced to pass on the right, creating even larger speed discrepancies and differences in traffic far more than necessary if people would just observe proper lane driving techniques.

    I've done real-world experiments and this holds true for most left lane campers as well. If you out left lane camp a camper by slowing down below their particular already slow "comfortable speed," more often than not they will execute a pass on the right; just natural human nature. They particularly don't like swallowing their own medicine; I've observed.
    '16 Audi TTS quattro 2.0T, '15 Audi A4 quattro 2.0T, '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6T
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 15,333
    backy said:

    Stopping at a red light has nothing to do with safety?

    Does that mean stops at all Stop signs and Stop signals should be "at driver's discretion"? Oh, what a wonderful world THAT would be. NOT. :@

    Do you drive in urban traffic very often? Not the suburban roads of outer San Diego, but real urban-style roads? I doubt it, based on your disregard for basic traffic laws.

    I am going to weigh in on this, stopping at a red light prior to turning right is a matter of safety. I know of stop lights where you can see cross traffic for a considerable distance before you come to the intersection and where there is not much going on at the intersection, but those are in the minority. Most intersections with traffic lights are in congested areas where there is limited sight lines and a lot of things going on at an intersection. In those cases it is nearly impossible (if not outright impossible) to properly assess the situation in the short time that a rolling stop provides.

    It takes more than a split second to properly assess the speed of traffic, your brain is going to take longer to register a motorcycle than a car and even longer to register a bicycle. Not to mention what pedestrians are doing around that intersection. Or say you approach the intersection, look for cross traffic and just roll through not realizing that oncoming traffic now has a green light?

    it's just that at the majority of intersections with traffic lights there is just to much going on to make those judgements quickly.

    2008 Sebring Ragtop, 2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 15,333
    andres3 said:


    I think a large percentage of Stop signs could be safely changed to more appropriately used "Yield" signs. I'll stop short of saying the majority, but it could be true for the majority. It is probably pretty close to 50/50; yet I see 100 stop signs for every yield sign.

    Actually you would be wrong, changing most of those stops signs to yield would not make it safer, but not for the reasons you are thinking of. Most stop signs are on roads that are not major thoroughfares and while reducing the number of stop signs would make traveling through residential and industrial areas faster they are there for a reason. City planners and traffic engineers use them as a tool to discourage people from cutting trough residential and industrial areas to avoid traffic and traffic signals. Keeping traffic from cutting through a residential area reduces traffic in that area which makes it safer for traffic that originates or terminates in that area and for pedestrians and others who are there.

    This is also a reason why roads in residential areas twist and turn and sometimes en with no reason and why you have no right turn between certain hours signs on heavily traveled roads.

    2008 Sebring Ragtop, 2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • Going back to the discussion of right turn on red- I talked to my cousin who is a police officer and this is what he said. He said you can only do a right turn on red AFTER you have come to a complete stop. After you have come to a complete stop and no one is coming then you can go. Otherwise if you don't stop then he said that you can be stopped. So for those of you that still want to argue the point of just slowing down and not stopping before turning on red, I wud highly recommend that you COME TO A COMPLETE STOP unless you want a ticket.
  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaPosts: 12,920
    Thanks, fordgirl. I think we are all familiar with and on board with that.

    The discussion here centered around the safety aspect of stopping vs. not stopping and, by extension, the level of acceptable risk associated therein.
    2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2008 and 2013 Subaru Forester(s), 1969 Chevrolet C20 Pickup, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250 Pickup
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 10,874

    andres3 said:


    I think a large percentage of Stop signs could be safely changed to more appropriately used "Yield" signs. I'll stop short of saying the majority, but it could be true for the majority. It is probably pretty close to 50/50; yet I see 100 stop signs for every yield sign.

    Actually you would be wrong, changing most of those stops signs to yield would not make it safer, but not for the reasons you are thinking of. Most stop signs are on roads that are not major thoroughfares and while reducing the number of stop signs would make traveling through residential and industrial areas faster they are there for a reason. City planners and traffic engineers use them as a tool to discourage people from cutting trough residential and industrial areas to avoid traffic and traffic signals. Keeping traffic from cutting through a residential area reduces traffic in that area which makes it safer for traffic that originates or terminates in that area and for pedestrians and others who are there.

    This is also a reason why roads in residential areas twist and turn and sometimes en with no reason and why you have no right turn between certain hours signs on heavily traveled roads.
    So in other words they add stop signs not for safety reasons but to cause traffic and congestion by slowing cars down. Thanks for making my point. I love it when your arguments backfire.

    Reducing traffic might be the intent, but the results show these dumb ideas from ill-informed so-called "traffic city planners" often backfire, resulting in additional congestion, traffic, and hazards. The aim of traffic measures shouldn't be to slow people down and cause congestion, it should be for maximum safety and minimum travel times.
    '16 Audi TTS quattro 2.0T, '15 Audi A4 quattro 2.0T, '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6T
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 10,874

    backy said:

    Stopping at a red light has nothing to do with safety?

    Does that mean stops at all Stop signs and Stop signals should be "at driver's discretion"? Oh, what a wonderful world THAT would be. NOT. :@

    Do you drive in urban traffic very often? Not the suburban roads of outer San Diego, but real urban-style roads? I doubt it, based on your disregard for basic traffic laws.

    I am going to weigh in on this, stopping at a red light prior to turning right is a matter of safety. I know of stop lights where you can see cross traffic for a considerable distance before you come to the intersection and where there is not much going on at the intersection, but those are in the minority. Most intersections with traffic lights are in congested areas where there is limited sight lines and a lot of things going on at an intersection. In those cases it is nearly impossible (if not outright impossible) to properly assess the situation in the short time that a rolling stop provides.

    It takes more than a split second to properly assess the speed of traffic, your brain is going to take longer to register a motorcycle than a car and even longer to register a bicycle. Not to mention what pedestrians are doing around that intersection. Or say you approach the intersection, look for cross traffic and just roll through not realizing that oncoming traffic now has a green light?

    it's just that at the majority of intersections with traffic lights there is just to much going on to make those judgements quickly.
    Some people's brains operate at a faster CPU clock speed than others. Some work with a Pentium, some have an I-Core 7. Some are stuck with a 486. If you are working with a 486 then you may need to stop to fully assess a situation at a typical intersection. :laughing:
    '16 Audi TTS quattro 2.0T, '15 Audi A4 quattro 2.0T, '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6T
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 10,874

    Going back to the discussion of right turn on red- I talked to my cousin who is a police officer and this is what he said. He said you can only do a right turn on red AFTER you have come to a complete stop. After you have come to a complete stop and no one is coming then you can go. Otherwise if you don't stop then he said that you can be stopped. So for those of you that still want to argue the point of just slowing down and not stopping before turning on red, I wud highly recommend that you COME TO A COMPLETE STOP unless you want a ticket.

    No one is arguing the law as written. Yes, you will get a ticket, serves my point that it's solely a money-maker and has nothing to do with safety. Why don't you ask your cousin how many accidents have been directly attributed to someone that ran a red light for a right turn at under 5 MPH. If he answers anything other than it is extremely rare ask him to prove it with the police reports of said accidents.

    Whenever I've pulled a traffic & engineering survey on a highly overly enforced section of road (hence why I had to pull a survey because I had a ticket), it turns out that the road is 6 to 8 times safer than a typical roadway. Sure doesn't give the Police Officer's much credibility when they say they've had "issues and accidents" by people doing what your doing yet the statistics don't back it.
    '16 Audi TTS quattro 2.0T, '15 Audi A4 quattro 2.0T, '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6T
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 15,333
    andres3 said:


    So in other words they add stop signs not for safety reasons but to cause traffic and congestion by slowing cars down. Thanks for making my point. I love it when your arguments backfire.

    Logic doesn't seem to be your strong suit, how can "It's for safety reasons" be in other words "not for safety reasons"? It's for safety reasons as it discourages people from cutting through residential areas
    andres3 said:

    Reducing traffic might be the intent, but the results show these dumb ideas from ill-informed so-called "traffic city planners" often backfire, resulting in additional congestion, traffic, and hazards. The aim of traffic measures shouldn't be to slow people down and cause congestion, it should be for maximum safety and minimum travel times.

    You must not have read what I posted, it's not to reduce traffic but to keep it on the main thoroughfares where it belongs. It increases safety in these residential areas by keeping the roads in those areas clear of excessive traffic by keeping it where it belongs. Or do you like having an endless string of cars racing past your house all morning?

    those you call ill informed so called "traffic city planners" are not ill informed, but I do strongly suspect you might be. This does greatly increase safety in residential areas and adds very little in the way of congestion on the main thoroughfares that are designed to handle the large volumes of traffic.

    2008 Sebring Ragtop, 2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 15,333
    andres3 said:

    backy said:

    Stopping at a red light has nothing to do with safety?

    Does that mean stops at all Stop signs and Stop signals should be "at driver's discretion"? Oh, what a wonderful world THAT would be. NOT. :@

    Do you drive in urban traffic very often? Not the suburban roads of outer San Diego, but real urban-style roads? I doubt it, based on your disregard for basic traffic laws.

    I am going to weigh in on this, stopping at a red light prior to turning right is a matter of safety. I know of stop lights where you can see cross traffic for a considerable distance before you come to the intersection and where there is not much going on at the intersection, but those are in the minority. Most intersections with traffic lights are in congested areas where there is limited sight lines and a lot of things going on at an intersection. In those cases it is nearly impossible (if not outright impossible) to properly assess the situation in the short time that a rolling stop provides.

    It takes more than a split second to properly assess the speed of traffic, your brain is going to take longer to register a motorcycle than a car and even longer to register a bicycle. Not to mention what pedestrians are doing around that intersection. Or say you approach the intersection, look for cross traffic and just roll through not realizing that oncoming traffic now has a green light?

    it's just that at the majority of intersections with traffic lights there is just to much going on to make those judgements quickly.
    Some people's brains operate at a faster CPU clock speed than others. Some work with a Pentium, some have an I-Core 7. Some are stuck with a 486. If you are working with a 486 then you may need to stop to fully assess a situation at a typical intersection. :laughing:
    Actually unless the person is suffering from age and/or a decease that affects the brains functions everyones brains operate at approximately the same "clock speed". So I state again it is almost, if not outright impossible to assess the information that is at a busy intersection in a crowded urban setting. The only safe option is to stop.

    2008 Sebring Ragtop, 2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 10,874

    andres3 said:

    backy said:

    Stopping at a red light has nothing to do with safety?

    Does that mean stops at all Stop signs and Stop signals should be "at driver's discretion"? Oh, what a wonderful world THAT would be. NOT. :@

    Do you drive in urban traffic very often? Not the suburban roads of outer San Diego, but real urban-style roads? I doubt it, based on your disregard for basic traffic laws.

    I am going to weigh in on this, stopping at a red light prior to turning right is a matter of safety. I know of stop lights where you can see cross traffic for a considerable distance before you come to the intersection and where there is not much going on at the intersection, but those are in the minority. Most intersections with traffic lights are in congested areas where there is limited sight lines and a lot of things going on at an intersection. In those cases it is nearly impossible (if not outright impossible) to properly assess the situation in the short time that a rolling stop provides.

    It takes more than a split second to properly assess the speed of traffic, your brain is going to take longer to register a motorcycle than a car and even longer to register a bicycle. Not to mention what pedestrians are doing around that intersection. Or say you approach the intersection, look for cross traffic and just roll through not realizing that oncoming traffic now has a green light?

    it's just that at the majority of intersections with traffic lights there is just to much going on to make those judgements quickly.
    Some people's brains operate at a faster CPU clock speed than others. Some work with a Pentium, some have an I-Core 7. Some are stuck with a 486. If you are working with a 486 then you may need to stop to fully assess a situation at a typical intersection. :laughing:
    Actually unless the person is suffering from age and/or a decease that affects the brains functions everyones brains operate at approximately the same "clock speed". So I state again it is almost, if not outright impossible to assess the information that is at a busy intersection in a crowded urban setting. The only safe option is to stop.
    So what explain's intelligence, IQ, and fast reflexes? Why are some athlete's quicker and faster-reacting than others? Some race car driver's are superior to others. Is it just practice and experience? Seems you are eliminating natural talent as a factor. Works for most sports for that matter.
    '16 Audi TTS quattro 2.0T, '15 Audi A4 quattro 2.0T, '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6T
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 10,874

    andres3 said:


    So in other words they add stop signs not for safety reasons but to cause traffic and congestion by slowing cars down. Thanks for making my point. I love it when your arguments backfire.

    Logic doesn't seem to be your strong suit, how can "It's for safety reasons" be in other words "not for safety reasons"? It's for safety reasons as it discourages people from cutting through residential areas

    Cutting through residential areas doesn't inherently increase safety. It might reduce the number of accidents, but not the number of accidents per mile travelled. You are simply making one street less active while making another more active ; I would NOT use the word "safety", or more or less safe in this manner or matter.
    andres3 said:

    Reducing traffic might be the intent, but the results show these dumb ideas from ill-informed so-called "traffic city planners" often backfire, resulting in additional congestion, traffic, and hazards. The aim of traffic measures shouldn't be to slow people down and cause congestion, it should be for maximum safety and minimum travel times.

    You must not have read what I posted, it's not to reduce traffic but to keep it on the main thoroughfares where it belongs. It increases safety in these residential areas by keeping the roads in those areas clear of excessive traffic by keeping it where it belongs. Or do you like having an endless string of cars racing past your house all morning?

    those you call ill informed so called "traffic city planners" are not ill informed, but I do strongly suspect you might be. This does greatly increase safety in residential areas and adds very little in the way of congestion on the main thoroughfares that are designed to handle the large volumes of traffic.
    You are merely moving one hazard to another area. Yes, high speed highways are generally "safer" than low speed streets. However, the stop signs do not increase safety. They do however, increase congestion which you have called a hazard, increase smog & pollution, increase engine and brake wear, and increase fuel consumption.
    '16 Audi TTS quattro 2.0T, '15 Audi A4 quattro 2.0T, '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6T
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 10,874
    The purpose of a Stop sign should be related to safety reasons, not for the purpose of slowing cars down, or deterring travel on a road my taxes have already paid for the installation of, including paving.

    No one wants an endless line of cars in front of there house OR on the freeways. My suggestion is don't buy that house in the first place!
    '16 Audi TTS quattro 2.0T, '15 Audi A4 quattro 2.0T, '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6T
Sign In or Register to comment.