Toyota Matrix vs. Mazda Protege5

matrix2003

I am in the market for either the Toyota Matrix XR w/ Sport & Sport Plus Packages, or the Mazda Pro5. I am willing to wait a few months in hopes that demand for the Matrix will settle down and I will be able to deal a little on Toyota's newest product. Even so, in comparing invoice on both cars, it seems that the Pro5 offers more bang for the buck. If anyone has any insight or advice PLEEEEEASE let me know, as I am truly torn between the two cars! Thanks!!

maryboo19

Read through the Matrix and P5 forums, you will find some insights on the pro's and con's of both.

I was really torn between these two as well, but finally settled on the P5. Comparably equipped, I found the Matrix to be about $500 more. I chose the P5 for a few reasons, all IMO:

-better styling
-sportier suspension and steering
-rear disc brakes (only available on Matrix XRS)
-special financing, and more room to negotiate as Matrix is a new model

I also hear it is difficult to find Toyota's with certain option combinations, Mazda doesn't have this problem.

The Matrix also has a lot going for it, and would also be a good choice. It has a 5 yr/60K powertrain warranty, probably better resale value, and a roomier and more flexible interior.

For me, the P5's better driving characteristics and styling outweighed the Matrix's extra room. It all depends what your priorities are. My suggestion would be to drive both before making a decision.

Peterun

Six speed manual transmission; 17" wheels. The vehicle is great, so far. EPA rating is significantly higher than stated in brochure. Negative: Asks for premium unleaded. Positive: Supremely comfortable, great design, Toyota reliability and trade-in value. Pete

revka

To matrix2003- Welcome to the Hatchbacks Board, and good luck with your decision. In addition to the feedback here, you should try comparing these two vehicles into Edmunds' side-by-side vehicle comparison tool.

To everyone- Please note: in the Helpful Links on the left side of the page, you'll find direct links to Edmunds.com side-by-side vehicle comparison and some other related Town Hall discussions (i.e. Protege5, Matrix). Keep your eyes open for other new items to be posted in that area. Hope this is helpful. Happy motoring!

Revka
Host
Hatchbacks & Station Wagons Boards

hurler4

I've tested the P5 and the Matrix XR, and they definitely have different feels to them. The P5 feels more European, while the Matrix feels like, well, a slightly sportier Corolla. Here are the advantages to both, in my opinion:

P5:
-sporty handling
-good torque
-great looks
-standard roof rack
-foldaway mirrors

Matrix:
-more room
-better gas mileage
-feels safer and more solidly built
-Toyota quality
-more options (navigation system, 115-volt outlet, etc.)

If I was sure the P5 was going to be as safe and reliable as the Matrix, I'd get one in a heartbeat. But the Matrix just "feels" more substantial. So it's a tradeoff of character vs. quality, in my opinion.

mp5freak

When you talk of safe and reliable, I'm surprised that a car that is more or less brand new would be held in higher regard than one that has existed as a top performer (in the regular Pro. sedan form) for many years. That was my biggest thing when getting the P5 - the regular Protege was held in such high regard with such a high owner satisfaction that I felt totally comfortable buying. The Matrix, although it is made by Toyota, is so new that I would be a bit hesitant. Not just of the reliablility and safety, but until more reviews and user stories are shared I'm not so sure about the other important factors - i.e. power, fun-to-drive, value, handling, etc. With the P5 I knew I was getting a solid car that had all the best points of the top of the line Pro ES, in an awesome hatchback form with all the options as standard.

Now if they weren't selling so fast I might have been able to get a better deal (i.e. more off the MSRP) but I guess when the dealer can't keep them on the lot at the full MSRP, what are you going to do?

mnkyboy

Why are people saying that the Matrix comes with a Navigation system? Its a $1,750 option!! For that price, you can get a better navigation system in a P5. What good is the navigation system when I hear the Matrix isnt that fun to drive, I own a P5 and a Corolla, and the Corolla is just plain boring...ZZZZ..

ashutoshsm

I still don't understand why people value navigation systems in cars. Just get a dash-mountable handheld navigation/GPS unit ($200 to 1000 for really good ones), that charges off the cigarette lighter output. Granted, it may not be the most ergonomic position to use it, but you can pull it out to use in your other car/s, or for a camping trip, or a hike!

And its cheaper (and usually better) than the $1750 you pay for it as an option!

And you shouldn't be using toys while you drive anyway ;-) We don't use cellphones while we drive, do we?

mdaffron

If you think Toyotas are bulletproof, here's a real eye-opener story from autonews.com today:

http://www.autonews.com/article.cms?articleId=38302

Meade

hurler4

I always used my cellphone when I was driving my Ford Thunderbird (the boys at AAA knew me on a first-name basis). :-)

I guess the main point I was trying to get across was that the Matrix felt more solid and safe than the P5. The doors were heavier, the materials inside felt more substantial, and it just had a more solid feel on the road. But yes, it does drive like a Corolla. Maybe I'll test out the 180-hp Matrix XRS, but I heard that it has absolutely no torque at the low end. Has anyone heard anything about this?

mp5freak

Yeah - if you look at the specs of the 180HP engine, you'll see that most of the fun comes when you rev the engine really high. On the low end you get almost nothing - especially when you factor in the added cost. Is the Matrix a car that you'd be likely to drive at 7000RPM?

I'd like a few more HP in the my P5 engine, but not at 8000RPM, and not with little or no increase in low-end torque. And especially not for thousands more...

birdman_1

The Vibe (basically a Matrix) and MP5 were only about 50 feet apart at the Baltimore Auto Show a few days ago. I'm an MP5 owner, so I'm a little biased, but I did notice the Vibe/Matrix was a LOT taller than the MP5... in fact, the Vibe seemed more vannish than hatchbackish!

IMHO, price and style are the biggest differences between the two (I have not test driven the Vibe/Matrix), and the MP5 beats the Matrix hands down...

birdman_1

One thing the Matrix definitely has over the MP5 is the television commercials... at least I don't have to listen to that "zoom zoom" song every time I drive my MP5!

coolguyky7

is very subjective, I know. However, yesterday I was on the interstate behind and right to a P5. I was like "What is that?" It looked like a station wagon at first glance. I would have thought it would have been more distinctive. The Matrix definitely has a sportier, less station wagon look to it.

mnkyboy

you like the mini-van look. The P5 looks is a hatchback, therefore it is not a station wagon. If you want to see a station wagon, go to the video store and get a copy of Nationl Lampoons Vacation. Thats a station wagon! LOL. As for the Matrix, Its neither a hatchback nor a station wagon. Thats why you would have to put it in a category as a mini-van.

stickguy

I had a chance to drive a Matrix today (XR, auto). It was very comfortable, good seats and a nice, upright driving position. Great visibility out front, poor out the rear (sides and straight back). Fantastic cargo room/flexibility. The engine seemed very economy car-ish, although it ws probably a result of the Automatic (I drive a V6/5 speed maxima, so I'm not used to the sounds of a 4 cyl/AT combo).

biggest gripe (IMHO) was the guages. Very hard to read. Actually, they sit so low I really had to look away from the road just to find them, and then they were hard to read (in the daytime), because of the lack of contrast and the needles on the speedo and tach were very low (not where you expect them to be).

I think Toyota (or was it Pontiac) gave up too much functionality to get the "flash" of the dashboard design. Could be a safety feature too if people have to take their eyes off the road.

strager

I feel that Toyota is trying too hard to be cool by adding mandatory skirts and underbody spoilers to most Matrix models. Personally, I like the cleaner look of the Matrix without these add-ons. Anyone else feel the same way? To me, the skirts/spoilers look better on the Protege 5.

newcar31

Agree with you there. I haven't driven a Matrix yet, but I can only imagine what it would be like. I used to have an integra VTEC which isn't that far off from the Matrix 180 hp engine. The VTEC engine was sluggish at low RPMs in the much lighter integra. It must be a DOG in the Matrix around town. When I first read about the Matrix, I asked myself "why in the heck would Toyota put such a small, low torque engine in a vehicle designed to carry lots of people and stuff?" Really, I imagine driving the 180 hp version around town would get really tiring.

stickguy

The salesman checked the production sheets to see if any 5 speeds were coming in. From what he said, it looks like everything is coming out with the sport pack plus (side skirts) and 17" wheels at first, so no moonroofs for a while.

Toyota really needs to work on how the package out the cars. Lots of options in theory that you will probably never find on a real car.

shrique

Toyota has always made me nuts when I try to package out a vehicle on their site. To get power windows on one of their pickups you have to buy this other thing which requires another option that makes you dance before you can buy the car. jeez. Go out to the corporate site and start trying to make a fairly stripped car with just a couple of luxury options. IT's almost funny.

jeprox

if money is no problem - i would definitely get the matrix xrs. 6 speed with 180hp vvti-L is definitely sweet! the only thing the protege 5 driver will see is your tail lights. ba-bye!

maltb

sure...until turn one or the next hill.

Sporin

I wouldn't get too cocky about the speed of the Matrix until more magazines test production cars if I was you. :--)

My Pro5 is no 0-60 machine, but it will hang with just about anything in the twisties!

:--)

shrique

Boy you set your sites low. A couple of cars I would consider if money was no object. (chuckle)

2002 BMW M3
2002 BMW M 2dr HB
2002 Ferrari 456M GTA 2dr Coupe
1978 Toyota FJ45 Landcruiser (Original 6cyl in mint cond.)
1978 Nissan 280Z (mint of course)
1969 Lincoln Continental Convert w/ suicides and the option UHF TV built in the dash

That's assuming the money to keep them thing running and to keep the paintjobs concourse quality. (chuckle)

maltb

Glad to know there are some fine 4wd connoisseurs on here. Unfortunately, I finally had to sell my '71 fj40 last summer...so be it.

rbleland

Exactly my current dilemma. I am downsizing from a 2000 4Runner (don't need the expense/size). What I need is: quality, reliability, decent resale, fun-to-drive, price under $25K Cdn., and space to carry 120# dog without him licking my neck. Where I live (B.C.), the P5 and the Matrix XR (both 5 Spd.)are priced almost exactly the same. Both cars give me most of what I want so it comes down to subjective things like: the Matrix is a bit bigger behind the rear seats for the dog, the Matrix rear window flips up, they both look good but I tend to prefer the rear view of the Matrix over the P5, more headroom in Matrix, storage area is more versatile in the Matrix (seats go flat, tie-downs, etc), I believe the Matrix may be a bit quicker 0-60 and a little better on gas. Lastly, the Matrix smells better!!!
I am serious on that - I had a '94 Protege and it had the same smell and I didn't like it then either. Either car will be the dark blue; but I suspect I will take the Matrix XR when it gets here in 2 weeks. They are both great cars for the dollars and both the Toyota and Mazda shops here are great to work with.

coolguyky7

Sounds like Matrix is the way to go!

matrix2003

Let me start off by saying that despite my SN and the fact that I have been grappling with the issue of Matrix XR vs. Pro5 for awhile, IMHO the Pro5 wins hands down!! Rbleland, not to take away any of the points you brought up regarding the matrix, but when you really compare dollar-for-dollar, head-to-head, here are just some of the things that come STANDARD on the Pro5 that are all OPTIONS (or else NOT available) on the Matrix XR.....
1) 4-Wheel Disc Brakes
2) 16" Alloy Wheels
3) All-Weather Guard/Rear Heater Ducts
4) Cruise Control
5) Fog Lights
6) Spoiler
7) Roof Rack
8) Foldaway Mirrors
9) Standard 3yr/50K warranty (vs. 3yr/36K on XR)
10) Included 3yr/50K Emergency Roadside Assistance
11) (and IMO a decent rear cargo cover)
Now, maybe these options aren't very important to you...but how 'bout an extra 10 lb-ft torque and a sportier suspension on the Pro5?? Plus w/ Mazda, you can even add options INDIVIDUALLY!!! instead of buying into all of Toyota's crazy-[non-permissible content removed] packages! Sure the Matrix'll give you the 115V power outlet, but comparably equipped I think the XR might actually be running you considerably more than the Pro5......

hpulley4

The 115V outlet is a gimmic. Go to Radio Shack or any hardware store and buy yourself a 115 or 300 watt DC to AC inverter. Plug the inverter into your lighter plug then plug your stuff into that. Easy as pie. Inverters have been around forever. No big deal except for the marketing gimmickery. Perhaps if you smoke you want your cigarette lighter free as well as a 115V plug but that is the only reason why I could see it being a big plus for you (and heck, you probably have a regular lighter in your pocket if you smoke).

strager

IMHO. One can "choose" this option and that, but it's all a meaningless exercise. They are whatever Toyota decides to add on the car that particular month. Take it or leave it.

One more thing: the Matrix was supposed to be an "affordable" car for the younger buyer. It's not, and has become overpriced with all the "options" included on every model.

rbleland

Thanks for your post in reply to mine @#26. First, remember I did say they are both great cars for the money. Second, it is subjective and certain items may be more/less important to different people. My critera was heavy on space (for dog) and versatility. I think the reliability, quality, driving fun and resale of both is very good and I doubt you disagree with that. I would point out that sometimes items that are standard on Canadian models differ slightly from what standard on U.S. models. For example, you state that a roof rack is standard on the P5, in Canada that's not true, the roof rack is available as an accessory (extra cost) item. Also, let me clarify that the Matrix XR here has 16" alloy wheels w 205/55R16 tires, rear heat ducts and cruise control all standard. Granted, the P5 has 10 lb/ft torque more (and that does concern me) and you get 4 wheel disc brakes. The foldaway mirrors I would trade for an outside temp. guage (in the XR) any day. It would interesting to read a good quality side x side driving comparison of the 2 to rate handling, acceleration, etc (come on, Car&Driver). The handling claim may be debatable; but, again, different people have different criteria. I dispute your contention that the P5 wins "hands down". Again, the U.S. pricing may be different, but in Canada the MSRP's are very, very close. I will have to check on the warranty issue and re-post if I differ from your claim above. I respect your opinion (which is really what all these comments are any way), but I don't think there is as much difference as your #28 post indicates. Do you own a P5 now, or just looking? Thanks.

matrix2003

Hi rbleland! Sorry if I came across too strong/bitter in #28 Actually, I was the one who started this discussion just a few days ago because of the fact that I had so much trouble with making this decision I don't yet own a P5; I'm just basing opinion off what I've researched and experienced in driving both cars. Again, I want to emphasize that this is my opinion only. I am a 25 y/o student who is looking for something practical yet fun and stylish. I cannot emphasize how much I was waiting for the Matrix XR to come out...thus my SN of Matrix2003. All along, the XR was advertised to be the "affordable" car geared towards younger buyers. However, when the car is "popularly" equipped, the price jumps out of the range of most younger buyers. Part of me is really pissed off honestly, and I feel like Toyota is not providing exactly what was advertised for so long. For me, around US $15,500 (negotiated price+rebates), I can get a nice Pro5 w/ auto, moonroof, and alarm. So what incentive is there to pay around US $19,000 (MSRP) for a car with fewer options as listed in #28????

Living in Canada, it seems like you might have a tougher time making this decision if you have things like cruise control and wheels included, AND the price is more comparable. [Makes me want to come visit you up in Canada, eh? he he ] It is amazing that 1 company can make cars so very different for 2 countries!!?!?!?

maryboo19

This was a tough decision for me as well. I drove both and was impressed by both for different reasons. I'm 26 and I was looking for something more practical then a sedan, yet something that was sporty and that I would actually enjoy driving.

IMO, the Matrix is more utility then sport, and the P5 is the opposite. The Matrix is roomier, has a more flexible interior, a better powertrain warranty, better fuel economy, and probably better resale as it is a Toyota.

The P5 to me is defintely better looking, has slightly more power, has rear disc brakes, was about $700 cheaper, and had much sportier steering and suspension. Also, dealer's are coming off of MSRP now that it has been out for a while, and Mazda is offering special financing.

I chose the P5 because it's important for me to get some driving satisfaction out of my vehicle. It looks better to me and it's room is plenty for my needs. However, if I really needed the extra space and put less value on the driving experience, I would not have hesitated to buy the Matrix.

Good luck with your decision

rbleland

This is getting interesting!! First, matrix2003, no apology is necessary, as I said we are all entitled to our opinions. That's part of what makes it great to live in the U.S. and Canada (but not France where they tell you how to judge). I confirm that the warranty on the Matrix in Canada is "basic complete car" - 36/60,000KM (36000 miles) w 60/100,000 (62,000mi)on power train. The P5 warranty is 36/80,000KM on basic and same as Matrix on power train. So, P5 basic warranty is better. I have one question - where is U.S. model P5 built as this site (Edmunds)says P5 built in St.Louis, Missouri. The Canadian P5 is built in Japan. Matrix2003, I understand your feelings about Toyota and their advert. to younger people. It sounds like the MSRP spread is much greater in the U.S. than here; plus your Matrix XR is not as well equiped as mine. Makes it easier for you to favor the P5. The MSRP in Canada on the P5 is $21,920; the XR is $21,980 - both in Canada dollars (worth only about 61cents U.S.) That includes freight, prep, tax on air conditioner (Jeez!), etc. Maryboo19, good post - you are correct in that the XR is probably more utility than sport (remember my 120# dog has to fit behind the rear seats!) There is more room back there in the XR, no question. Also, headroom greater. I still quibble over the best "appearance" but that is the most subjective call there is. For both of you, I think you are more "sports-oriented" than I and I need some "sport" with utility. Remember, I am down-sizing from a 2000 4Runner (not real sporting!). I am also of a different demographic than either of you. I am 57, and have had somewhere around 40 vehicles since age 16. The XR or P5 is also the second car for my wife and I. We also have a V6 Toyota Solara coupe which is a great car. I have about 2 weeks until I have to make the final choice but am still leaning to the XR. My P5 deal is still alive and I have not totally ruled it out. I did have a '94 Protege w 102 HP engine, it was a great car and I gave it to my son who still has it. Maybe the P5 feels a lot like my '94 and I want something new?? One other thing in favor of the P5 for me is a much better interest rate on the lease. But in the end, it will come down to that old subjective call - which one works/feels best for me. Cheers.

the_big_h

The information on Edmunds is wrong.

Check the VIN if you want to be sure, all Japan-made cars start with a 'J'.

Sporin

I have a Pro5 and love it.

Built in Japan of 95% Japanese parts. 100% Mazda designed and built. They've been building it for other markets for years in that factory so they have any bugs worked out. I wouldn't buy a first model year car, even a Toyota.

Other that that, I agree that the Matrix offers more space, and the P5 offers more sport. So it's really up to you to get what works best for you.

Personally, I took the sportier, lower priced alternative coupled with Mazda's 4.9% financing. Unbeatable combination for my needs... 10k happy miles.

riopelle

Anyone considering the Ford ZX5 alongside the Matrix and Pro5? Another 130hp 2.0l, 170" long, modern 5-door for around $18K - the three are peas in a pod. One can get traction control and leather as options on the ZX5, the handling is supposedly sublime and a standard 6-disk changer is awesome. On the other hand, Ford quality can't touch the Japanese, which puts the Pro5 over the Matrix too. Car and Driver should do a 5-door shoot out, and bring the Elantra GT and Golf along to fill out the 4 and 5 slots...

hpulley4

There are small 5-door cars all over the place now. The differences in suspension and standard features and prices are fairly large. These little cars aren't fun to me unless I can really push them in corners so suspension is important. The P5 sounds like it has a sophisticated suspension with multilink & separate struts and coils at all points plus front strut tower braces. The ZX5's suspension sounds pretty good too, though not as sophisticated as that of the P5. I'm not as sure about the Aerio's mac struts in all 4 corners or the rear torsion beam in the Matrix/Vibe. That said, real world performance matters more than theoretical limits so I guess I'll have to test drive a few to see how they feel.

I'm not shopping hard yet so I'd certainly welcome a new 5-door shootout from Edmunds or someone else. That way I can save myself a test run/hard sell or two.

mpgman

Add standard side air bags, a really functional and proper height center arm rest and dual stage console, excellent driver leg room, lumbar support, trip computer, heated side mirrors, leather upholstery, a 5/60, 10/100 warranty, rear intermittent wipers and variable intermittent front wipers, 4 passenger assist grips, and the availability of traction control in addition to ABS, and voila!....the Elantra GT...for a lot less money. 20,000 miles and loving it. Good Luck!

maltb

that badge on the back that is standard as well and says Hyundai.

matrix2003

He he....just when we thought the XR vs. P5 was a tough enough battle, now we've added others into the mix?!? I REALLY HOPE SOMEONE IS GETTING WORD TO CAR AND DRIVER ALREADY!!! A shootout would certainly be nice, but as riopelle eluded to, we are starting to compare apples and oranges when we throw american and korean cars into the japanese mix....

rbleland....good luck with whatever you decide and be sure to keep up posted!

maltb

I was VERY dissapointed when I drove by my Toy dealer. Good heavens! Like toyota needs another ugly minivan.

maryboo19

Probably has the most room out of all of them, and the 2.4L engine makes good power and torque. Also, reliability is said to be quite good, and Chrysler is now offering a standard 7yr/100K powertrain warranty and a $1000 rebate.

I looked at it, thought it looked/drove OK, but it wasn't really my cup of tea. Comparably equipped to the P5, it was about $40 more per month. The PT was third on my list after the P5 and Matrix XR.

I'd like to see someone do a comparo with:
Protege 5
Matrix XR (or Vibe)
PT Cruiser
Elantra GT
Focus ZX5
Golf GLS 2.0
Impreza Outback Sport wagon

Whoever wins, I think it would cause a lot of controversy on these forums!!

Sporin

Protege 5
Matrix XR (or Vibe)
PT Cruiser
Elantra GT
Focus ZX5
Golf GLS 2.0
Impreza TS Wagon


That would be a really good comparo. Must have 5-doors, cap cost at $19k or so and see which one is the best! :-D

rbleland

maryboo19 and Sporin - like your lists for future comparisons. I might suggest that the Subie Outback Sport might be too pricey (at least in Canada); might have to use the Impreza 2.5TS wagon. Here, the price of it is only slightly higher than the XR or P5.
maltb - now that's what I call a very subjective comment!!! I guess that means you won't be lining up for a Matrix or did I miss something here?

riopelle

Hi again all. Great list for comparison. I think the PT cruiser just isn't tuned enough for sport to warrant inclusion. It's a fine car (my brother-in-law has one), but it really is a highway cruiser, and the price goes through the roof with any options. Now who has a connection to Car and Driver?? :-) They should have been on this already, but based on their recent Budget Bandito and Hot Hatch comparisons, I predict the finish order and reasons:

1. Pro5 - has the handling and refinement.
2. ZX5 - a complete package, except no redline, and a stupid light that tells you when to shift.
3. Matrix - Toyota reliability (and a power outlet! joke.)
4. Elantra GT - the budget bargain, but still a Hyundai.
5. 2.5TS - no cruise? no moonroof? c'mon.
6. Golf (or Jetta wagon?)- VW handling is just awful nowadays.

Thoughts??

strager

and my list looks like:

Civic 5 door
Pro5 and ZX5 (tie)
Matrix XR

followed by the rest. I read a blurb in Motor Trend that the Civic 5 door will be here late this year or early next year. And it will be priced sensibly like all Hondas.

hpulley4

Am I the only person who noticed the new Suzuki 5-door, the Aerio? Just wondering why it isn't on anyone else's list. It has 141hp/135lb-ft of torque, digital guages, fully loaded it seems quite price competitive, etc.

matrix2003

In all sincerity, how can anyone compare a Ford with the likes of Honda, Toyota, and Mazda?????? And just out of curiosity, since the majority seems to prefer P5 over the Matrix, does anyone have anything objective(other than 115V outlet *smirk*) that puts the XR over the Pro5???

sunbyrne

Well, the Matrix has more interior space, right? That might be in its favor for some. And the Matrix is available with a 180hp engine, which the P5 is not, though one can debate the power here since the relevant Matrix engine doesn't produce much torque, and has to be revved pretty far to deliver what it does deliver. But it certainly has more high-end than the P5.

badtoy

but wish they would do something with the 2ZZ engine to give it more torque, and design the gearbox so provide more linear power, like in the old AE86s.