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VW Touareg SUV



  • spockcatspockcat Posts: 100
    If it was as cheap and easy as you make it sound, someone would be doing it already and the world would beat a path to his door.
  • . . .it was an E Class car. It had a five speed automatic. I drove it between Munich and Garmisch, on the autobahn (down and back).

    I was able to easily achieve 200kph (124+ mph). I sat the cruise control for a time @ 180 (110+mph) because it felt "about right."

    The time was early fall, the a/c was required, I was with my friend and we had two suitcases in the trunk.

    There was no smell, no indication period that this was a diesel, except the fuel supply did not drop as rapidly as my high velocity ways would have suggested.

    Moreover, my wife and I took the Audi Winter driving course in Seefeld Austria and the cars they chose to use for the classes were A4 2.5TDI's with 6spd stick shifts. Again, even starting the cars after all night in the bitter cold seemed "gasoline" normal. The torque was better than the gas versions I have driven and or owned other than the 2.7T engine equipped models.

    Diesels have few, if any, drawbacks that I can -- at the current level of technology -- enumerate.

    I read that US diesel fuel is, presently, too dirty to be used in a modern German diesel -- but, that this dirty fuel will be replaced over the next year or two (here in the US) with European quality (cleaner, i.e.) fuel.

    My recollection of the Jetta diesel (which was in the early 80's) was positively cemented when we drove from Cincinnati, Ohio to Petosky, Michigan (to go skiing) with four adults and their luggage (an 11 hour drive) and only stopped once for fuel. Since that time, I have hoped for the VW/Audi group to bring some of the most excellent diesel outfitted cars to the US since my experiences with them in Germany and Austria have been "the best of both worlds" -- high torque and great milage.

    Bring 'em on.
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,059
    If it was as cheap and easy as you make it sound, someone would be doing it already and the world would beat a path to his door.

    The question was about the cost of the energy needed to produce hydrogen along with the unreasonable assumption that hydrogen would have to be stored cryogenically. The energy is cheap but, of course, the cost of setting up the infrastructure for delivery and so on is not negligible.

    tidester, host
  • vwguildvwguild Posts: 1,620
    I may be wrong, but I do not believe that Americans are really very fond of nuclear power plants...That leaves coal or oil...And that closes the circle on this...

    Mark...As is quite common..."Prejudice" is based on ignorance, and that is the situation with Diesel Technology and it's benefits in 2004...When we eliminate the sulpher from our Diesel #2(2006), as they have in Europe, the light will magically come on...
  • st4s03st4s03 Posts: 9
    Just checking to see if any listers have dealer experience in the Denver area with discounting the V6. Also any comments on V6 performance climbing the mountain grade and high altitude?
  • mmee1mmee1 Posts: 19
    Did not notice any drop off in performance. Four people and the back filled with gear and it felt great to me. Tiptronics on a steep, snowy, winding section at about 6K ft, it moved out nicely. Now, I was not trying to pass everyone, but I could keep the rpms right where I wanted and the thing felt like it wanted to climb.
  • roweerowee Posts: 21
    In Europe V-6 considered sluggish to say the least.No demand for this engine type(used successfully on other VW models;Golf, Passat)Personally i would go for the v-8 or wait for the "super" car the V-10. V-6 owners,who bought their T-Reg a year ago are trying to replace them. The car (with offroad pack)is simply too heavy , and the torque (305Nm at 3200rpm.) not sufficient.

    Remote problems; Works fine for 50`+ from ALL angels. Doors,rear hatch etc. can be set via the Main menu-Convenience Set-up(page 23 in "controls and equipment)
  • elemintelemint Posts: 79
    V-6 is not selling in europe because there is a v-6TDI option, period. In fact they cant make the v6TDI fast enough. As for here, nobody who bought a v6 is going to upgrade for a v8 unless they are a wealthy teen aged. $5k more for a few more horse power in a car that is not made to go fast is foolish, and the mpg is much worse. IT is the the transmit ion that matters when it comes to weight, NOT the engine. Land rover has been making 4 cylinders for land rovers for 50 years. One last point. Even edmunds did not like the V8 and said it was to jumpy ie too much power. Bigger is NOT better.
  • roweerowee Posts: 21
    Its really a 5 cylinder TDI engine with 174bhp and torque of 400Nm at only 2000rpm.This engine has less horse power then the v-6 but its performance(with the higher torque at lower rpm`s)is far superior to the v-6. So i agree with elemint ,Bigger is NOT better.
    Incidently, European consumers who shop for petrol engine on the T-Reg will opt for the V-8
    and will not settle for a Diesel as implied in ms g.#1677
  • jd1318jd1318 Posts: 7
    elemint, i couldn't disagree with you more. first of all i don't consider myself wealthy, but i considered $5k for the v8 option a bargain.

    first of all it's not $5k for just a few more horsepower, it's 90 more horsepower, over 40% more coming from a luxury grade engine that powers the $70k audi a8. and when your talking about a 5300# vehicle that makes a big difference. but lets not forget everything else that goes along with the v8 option, like leather interior, 12 way power driver and passenger seats with lumbar, bigger wheels and tires, etc. as far as the gas mileage being much worse, it's not, there's a 1 mpg differance. and edmunds saying they did not like the v8 is just false. they said, "no one would dare argue against the buttery v8 that offers more than enough power. it is a terrific engine and it's 310 horsepower moves the 5300 pound suv with authority." they did say the throttle was a little jumpy in stop and go type driving. this is because of the electronic (drive by wire) throttle pedal, it took me about 500 miles to get used to it and now i can drive my treg as smooth as any car i've ever driven. if edmunds had put in enough seat time i'm sure they would agree.

    bottom line , when you consider it's $2600 for a nav system, $5k for the v8 option is a steal.
  • elemintelemint Posts: 79
    Bottom like is the more options you put on the car the more the dealer and the manufacturer will make off you. Do you think it cost $5k more to manufacture a v8 over a v6? No way. I consider cars to be nothing more than a tool. No need for a $50 hammer when a $5 one will do the job. I do like a nice tool but am baffled by excess, but i guess thats what the car business thrives on. One more thing, I am harder on cars than 99.9% of drivers. That being said i have gone more places around the world with crappy front wheel drives and have rarely had serious problems, ie logging roads etc. After all the worst car on the road today is better than the best car 50 years ago and the roads were worse. Just something to remember. Good Luck and dont be an emotional buyer.....
  • ace234ace234 Posts: 2
    Really like the power of the V8 after having an under powered Blazer. Sure hope I can get used to the jumpy gas pedal on take off. Lots of electronic stuff to get used to. Never had such a detailed and "fat" owners manual.
  • I am in total agreement with jd1318 on his analysis of the Touareg V8 engine. I would not have purchased the T-reg without the V8. the truck with a six is a real dog. I barely had enough power in the V8 Jeep Grand Cherokee that I just moved up from. The V8 is really smooth although,it too, could use a little more torque.Every thing else on the T-reg is working just fine,especially those rain sensitive wipers!!
  • elemintelemint Posts: 79
    Its all in your head, unless you are pulling a large boat. Millions of people in europe are driving cars with engines smaller than 1 liter and they drive faster than here. Tje fact that v8's still even exist is beyond me.
  • fish8fish8 Posts: 2,282
    That is why Honda Civic's and Corolla's are made. For people that think of cars as appliances and nothing more. From the invention of the automobile, people have made car purchases based on emotion. Making a car purchase soley on emotion is never a good idea. But, to say "don't be an emotional buyer" is a totally foreign concept to me. Most of the participants on this board LOVE cars for many reasons. One of them being the emotional feeling one gets from buying and driving the car that "fits" them best.

    Again, those who don't view cars as extensions of themselves and look at a Porsche or Ferrari and shake their heads in disbelief tend to drive Camry's or Civics. These are "nice" cars, but tend to lack passion and emotion.

    Enjoy your ride in whatever you drive...
  • jd1318jd1318 Posts: 7
    i was far from being an emotional buyer. when i went shopping for my current vehicle i had a specific list of what i wanted. i wanted a mid size suv. it had to have a v8, all or 4 wheel drive, independent rear suspension for good ride quality, leather, sunroof, xenon headlights, decent rear seat and cargo space, and a good tow rating. my only other requirement is i didn't want to spend much more than $40k.

    the only vehicle made on the planet that has all that for anything close to $40k is the treg. it's about $10k cheaper than any comparably equipped vehicle and nothing else has near the towing capacity.

    my treg is not loaded with options. it has a v8, xenons, and sound system 1. everything else on my list of wants was either standard or came in the v8 package. i paid $39715, just what i was looking for.

    and again it's not $5k for just a v8. the premium package on the v6 which gives you all the interior upgrades that are on the v8 like leather, 12 way power lumbar seats, wood trim, heated+folding mirrors, etc costs $2300. if you allow just $700 for the 18" wheels and tire upgrade, which are not an option on the v6, that means they are really only charging about $2k for that audi engine. and yes i do think it might cost around $2k more for them to produce that v8 over the v6.

    if i have to spend a couple hours a day in a vehicle for the rest of my life. it's worth it to me to buy vehicles that will improve my quality of life, not appliances that would drag it down.

    i respect your position about you choice of transportation, and hope i helped you to understand and respect mine.
  • Perhaps VW's are tools -- to someone. But even the least expensive Touareg is, for most of us, not a tool, or at least not first and foremost a tool.

    I read and participate is several of these town halls, and while everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion, I must -- while respecting your right to your opinion -- suggest that folks who participate in these Internet discussions are generlaly quite passionate about their cars. Indeed, even the folks who are driving far more pedestrian cars consider them a source of fun, pride perhaps, lust in some cases and, yes, transportation.

    The V8 Touareg is, by virtually any measure, appropriately priced over the the V6 -- and by some measures it is a steal. You, sometimes, get what you pay for.

    Some folks here disagree [with me] but overall, I find VW builds cars that are bargains (and that includes the Phaeton and Touareg and Passat W8.) I know there are dealer and quality control issues that are repeated here often. I do not disagree with these folks.

    I do, however, believe that VW engineers mostly great cars and they are worth what they ask for them!
  • spockcatspockcat Posts: 100
    If you do not believe me check out this Euro price comparison I found on a German language forum:
  • elemintelemint Posts: 79
    Looks like one can get a v6 for about $33k and from what i see a v8 is $40k. That is the bottom line... If they did not MAKE you buy leather etc maybe the v8 would be about $36 but that is the trick, they want you to feel the v8 is a premium so you pay for it. Sort of like dealer installed options. Dont take any of this personal, i just dont like "marketing games". BTW i was looking to see what it would cost to replace the tires on the touareg. I could only find 2 tires that would work and they were $200 each for low quality tires!!! Why did vw go non-standard??? Anyone thinking of changing wheels to get around this to get better/lower cost tires?
  • spockcatspockcat Posts: 100
    First the easy part: The V8 Touareg uses 255/55 R18 tires. Tirerack has some for $98 each. The V6 uses 255/60 R17 tires. Tirerack has some for $121 each.

    As for leather coming standard in the V8, most people who spend nearly $40k for a vehicle want leather. Considering that the car is made in Europe and the delivery time is much longer than a US made car, it makes little sense to basically double the inventory requirements of V8 models by giving the buyer the choice of leather or vinyl.
  • roweerowee Posts: 21
    Thanks to spockcat we can all see very clearly that my argument against American consumer opting for the V-6 was right all along. European price charts (ms g.#1687) support the concept that buying the v-6 in the u. s. is a financed mistake.
    The T-reg v-6 is very sluggish with torque well below the minimum required. American consumer will pay for the v-8 as much as we pay for the v-6. So why would the u. s. market even consider the v-6 as an option?
    And for diesel lovers; my advice is wait for the super car; THE V-10(and you will be paying the price of a European V-8)
  • . . .here it comes: overpriced -- relative to the content of the V8, the V6 is 1 mpg better in gas milage and, well, frankly a false economy.

    I can hardly wait for the cries for my head after saying this; but, so long as you know that I am only "mostly" serious and I find neither fault nor have predjudice if you decided to go that way.

    It just seems to me that you get so much more with the V8 version. My friend, who just bought a new X5 3.0 (which was just south of $50K and didn't even have sat nav) looked at the Touareg and claims he would've bought the V8 version if it wasn't a first year model and if it had come with "free" maintenance like the bimmer.

    A 6 cylinder X5 for the price of the V8 Touareg. . .indeed he said it was his favorite and the "dealer and first year scare" actually kept him from buying.

    Ok, now tell me why the V8 isn't the better value, as I contend.

    I grant the V6 is lower price and that may make "affordability" the issue you will discuss -- but, assuming you have the wherewithall to acquire the V8, why -- other than the lower cash outlay -- would you not go for the "bargain" version (the V8).

    Bring on your counterpoints, ladies and gentlemen.
  • spockcatspockcat Posts: 100
    That "free" maintenance your friend got on his X5 wasn't free. He paid for it upfront in the price of the car. After 10k miles I have put out under $200 for maintenance for my V8 Touareg. That is two complete oil changes with 8 quarts of Mobil 1 each time, topped up fluids, a general inspection and a tire rotation.
  • roweerowee Posts: 21
    Previous participants stress mpg, equipment etc. and those are good valid reasons to stay away from the v-6(in Europe consumers who made a v-6 purchase are trying to get the v-8 instead)but the factor to be most considered when buying a car is the power(not neccesary the size) of the Engine. The v-6, while performing excellent on ather VW cars(Passat, Golf) sucks on the T-Reg. So that factor on its own should keep potential buyers, in any market,away from it.(The Europeans go for the 2.5TDI or the V-8)
  • spockcatspockcat Posts: 100
    I think that Europeans choose their cars based on tax reasons. Either high fuel tax forcing them to buy something with lower consumption or high tax based on engine size or power. Different countries tax vehicles in different manners. Taxes in the US do not change based on engine size or power. They pretty much go based on the value of the car. Fuels taxes are also quite low compared to European countries. So buying a V8 touareg versus a V6 Touareg makes little difference in the taxes or fuel consumption. It is just the cost of the engine and the added options VW puts in the V8.
  • mmee1mmee1 Posts: 19
    Didn't need it. With all due respect to the eloquent argument in #1693 "The", I didn't spend an extra (insert your thousands of dollars here) because I didn't need it. The V6 comfortably cruises up to 7000 ft at 10 to 20 mph above the speed limit (about my personal limit) just fine. I'm not pulling a Gulf stream, I'm not entering the Baja with it, and I'm not looking impress my neighbors with "top of the line". Why would I buy more than I need? Because it's a "deal"? I'll spend my "deal" on a new plasma. Now that I do need.

    BTW, the V8 comes with 18" inch wheels which Consumer Reports (Jan, 04) tested as having a 15% drop off in on snow performance over the 17". I didn't need that either.
  • elemintelemint Posts: 79
    I agree with you. Besides as far as i know the v6 has a history to back it up. I dont thing the V8 does. I remember when my friend was telling me how he was smart to get the 3.8 liter over the 3.0 in his ford tauras. Well the "HOT" 3.8 SHO turned out to be one of the worst engines ford ever made. Buyer beware...
  • IF mr elemint in post #1696 had done just a little homework,he would know that the V8 engine is a proven and well tested engine that has been,in a nearly identical form, in the Audi A8 luxury sedan for several years. That being said, if he is happy with less power,etc,good for him! Just leaves more of the V8s for those of us who demand more!
  • I bought my first 4.2 V8 equipped car in 1996, in a brand new 1997 Audi A8, since then I have enjoyed the 4.2 engine in a 2000 Audi A6 and a 2001 A6 sport. This engine is makes the sweeeetest sounds of any car engine I have ever owned.

    There is nothing wrong with the V6 -- some people have decried its lack of power (compared to the V8 and the diesel), but I don't recall it being accused of a lack of refinement. Other valid observations include its thirsty ways, again when compared with the (US only) only other option we have, again the V8.

    My comments pertain to content for $$. They are, in that respect, price independent. The only reason to choose the V6, then, is price or monthly payment. I can only wonder if the V6 and the V8 had the same price, if anyone would still choose the V6 (considering the two engines are only 1 mpg apart).

    To say that you don't want a V8 is a fair comment and certainly doesn't make one a bad person or ill-informed or nuts in any way. But, I suspect the main reason for the V6's even being offered in the US is to make sure there was a "low priced" offering.

    The fact that apparently some folks find them unsatisfying and that others, like me, find them (the V6's that is) to be "less for the money" and that still others simply say the V6 is the right price probably confirms the wisdom of VW's decision to bring these two to market.

    Simply put, it would stick in my craw that I didn't get as good of a deal or as high a value for my bucks if I purchased the V6 over the V8.

    To each his/her own.

    Please, only those who would buy the V6 over the V8 -- if they were priced the same -- need respond (to this point of view). I already understand the point of view of those who for whatever reason chose lower price over higher price (and, IMHO, higher value.)
  • mmee1mmee1 Posts: 19
    I don't get it. "buy the V6 over the V8 --if they were priced the same"? They are not. I'd buy a Ferrari over the Touareg-- if they were priced the same.

    I'm only saying the V6 meets my needs. I'm sure the 8 is great. Someone who "demands more" should definitely put a few extra thousand into their Touareg. They will love that one too.

    I bought the 6. It does everything I need it to do. For me, why would I pay for something I don't need? I'll put the money I save in Ebay stock and see if I can create some "higher value" that way.
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