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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans



  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 2,071
    Funny but a loaded ford focus could have a boatload more tech then a 180 hp BMW- and also be cheaper and very close in performance -

    A VW GTi makes less HP then the Focus, yet is faster...

    The Fouse ST is an interesting car, however, it is slow for making 252hp. The same thing can be said about the Mazdaspeed 3.
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 2,071
    I simply restated what they stated on their website: asking more out of a smaller engine will besult in more engine wear. So my take is that somebody that is very performance minded, goes to the track on occasion or regularly and doesn't care about shaving some life off the second 100,000 miles on the engine, the Dinan option is a viable one. But for those that are counting on the car being a daily driver for 8-10 years and do not want to take the risk of Dian's admittedly increased engine wear, might think twice.

    I was one point shy of earning my DINAN badge with my 330, not one problem did I have with the car, I wasn't the easiest on it, whether on the track or street, granted I didn't have 100K miles on it but it was 7 years old. The engines today that are build as turbos wont self-destruct like engines 20 years ago.

    There is always a risk when added more boost to an engine than what the manufacture had planned. This is why people need to reframe from increasing the boost too high, there is a fine line between power and reliability.
  • I would have to pick the acura over the other cars. I currently drive an 11 Genesis sedan but, also own a 2000 Acura 3.2 tl. I bought the Acura new in 2000 and currently have 235k on the odometer. This vehicle has been strictly maintained by the Acura dealer and still runs as well as the day I bought it. I have had no major issues with the car. I have all the necessary services performed and the oil changed every 5k miles. Only downside to the Acura is that it run on premium fuel. Other than that, it is a very good car. This car is still quick and will outrun and outperform a lot of cars. Resale value is also very good on Acura's.
  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,294
    Your responding to a post from aug 2011, wonder if that cat has decided yet?
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 25,369
    I have a 2000 3.2TL also, but with "only" 167K on it. and like you, always dealer maintained, and nothing major (knock wood), just stuff like an alternator. Still runs very well.

    oh, and it has always been run just fine on mid-grade. Did not like regular, but no difference between mid and premium that we could ever tell.

    2015 Hyundai Sonata 2.4i Limited Tech (mine), 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's) and 2015 Jetta Sport (daughter's)

  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 4,056
    edited January 2013
    . . . wonder if that cat has decided yet?

    Well, here's the thing: in the post I stated that I'd bought an Acura TSX and was pretty pleased with it. Still am. Wow; "cat?" Were you alive and well in the '50s? I was, but I'm an old fart; didn't think you were.

    Today we drove our Pathfinder down from Forest Lakes, and it performed flawlessly, as always. It's a truck, and its truck engine is not to be slighted. We've got nearly 130K miles on it, and it's running strong. However, putting this engine in a "sport sedan" is questionable, IMNHO.

    My TSX is going to hit 70K very shortly -- has needed almost nothing and runs very well.

    Sometimes those old posts were made by people who still monitor Edmunds regularly -- not often, but it does happen.
  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,294
    Was not a seed yet in the 50s- and good to hear the old TsX is holding up well- Honda does make good cars, most people who I'm related to all have Hondas and they seem to be very happy with them- my wife's crv has been very good as well.

    If that "cats" still waiting a year and a half to decide what car to get- his TL has just rolled 300k miles.
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 2,071
    Opps, I was wrong,
  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,294
    edited January 2013
    Yep not the first time - understand the BMW love but let's be real, one time. Love opinions but have to be fact based- leasing numbers, o-60 times, pricing, transmission talk - it's black and white. Can't wait to meet you at the 5 guys near Jacob Jarvis march 29th.
  • Hey- I might join you guys, is the 29th the last day of the show?
    I usually wait for the last day which is the Sunday.
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 2,071
    edited January 2013
    Sweeny there is more to a car than 0-60 and if you want to talk about leases, BMW has one of the highest resale value. What is funny, many people here including yourself posted how the ATS V6 was faster than the 335i, which all car mag have disproved. The thing that makes a BMW a BMW is how all the parts work together, just as they do in a Porsche. In many GM cars, including the ATS and C6 Vette, there is some disconnect.

    Infiniti has to hit a home run with this new Q50...

    IN regards to meeting, I haven't set my dates yet, this should happen in a week or two.
  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,294
    Will touch on a couple of PTs here- Q50 we have no idea if this car is good at all because it has yet to be driven- infact the specs have not been formed - is it going to have a 4 cyl at some pt. performance numbers and pricing?

    Can't argue that BMW and Porsche knows where to put the pieces. Great cars.

    On the Ats comment above- this is where you get into trouble with being factual. ( You can search yourself) I did a search for me talking about the ATS- and have never said what you quote. I understand you want to be right and have passion for cars- but again use facts not imagination when commenting . It throws people off and is distracting .

    Car show should be fun- 5 guys - I'm buying
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 11,328
    edited January 2013
    I go every year on Easter Sunday. Get there at 10:00 AM when the doors open. By the time I'm ready to leave @ 12:30 - 1:00, it starts to get super crowded.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Infiniti G37x Q40 AWD

  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,343
    edited January 2013
    Well I would agree that there are no test reports pertaining to the Q50 -- or if there are, I can't find them or don't have the time to look.

    But I thought the specs were revealed. I know that I printed out the current G dimensions (wheel base, overall length and width, etc.) Also somewhere there is a discussion of the two engines the thing will offer on day one -- including HP and torque.

    My admittedly fuzzy recollection: Q50, same wheelbase as G37; Q50, 2" wider than G, Q50 about 2" longer than Q. Same 7 speed transmission in the Q50 as was in the G37 -- and that is the only transmission offered. Same 3.7L engine in the Q50 as was/is in the G; the hybrid uses a 3.5L engine -- similar to the set up in the M37 and the M hybrid.

    Q50 can be had in both engine variants with AWD.

    Now, insofar as the full run down of specs (like can be found about the G37), I have not been able to find a source for these specs pertaining to the Q50.

    Overall, the new Q50 will be longer and wider and probably "feel" like a major size upgrade over the G37's.

    I assume the Q50 will be a slightly smaller, more agile, quicker version of the M37 -- or a slightly larger, more agile, quicker version of the G37.

    I am looking forward to driving one -- hopefully the sport package includes beefier springs, struts/shocks, anti-sway bars and brakes, in addition to sport seats and a steering wheel with paddle shifters.

    I see no big deal in the dropping of a manual transmission. The up take on manual transmission versions was probably less than 3 or 4% in any case. My assumption is Infiniti let the stick shifts go due to market apathy.

    I would expect a small price increase -- real, but not huge (not yet anyway.)
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 4,562
    edited January 2013
    Q50 is bigger than G, 50 seems also quite a high number (by their own new naming strategy, it is about half way between 10 and 99). I'd bet there is a model below this one, (Q30?) coming (smaller size, engine would give them better fuel economy credits and some ability to capture market segment below current G). If so, Q50 may be priced much higher than you think. Everything is going up. If 320 can be priced at 45 grand (with options), who knows where this can go.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 2,071
    Dinio I would agree that the Q50 is going to be higher in price, and that a smaller car will be placed under the Q50. Something like 1 series or A3. Now in regards to pricing of the 320i, a fully loaded 320i is $46K, Nav is a stand- alone option on the car, I would guess that most people would go for a 320i with Premium package, and Nav, which is 40K. But you can get a 320i well equipped for under 40K,
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 2,071
    According to Infiniti's web page, the drive-train of the Q50 is a carry over, so performance should be able the same, maybe a little faster or a little slower.

    Many people stated that the ATS was going to be a faster car because it made more HP in both turbo and V6 models, however, all the mag's have shown that the BMW turbo 4 and turbo 6 are faster.

    The Germans know how to put a car together, they feel that all parts work together, this is the problem with other cars makers, maybe with the exception of the Italian high end cars. I hope the Q50 is a great car, competition is good for everybody and only makes things better in the long run. Yes, prices are going up and ALL cars. It will be interesting to see what the top of line Q50 will go for with all the technology they plan for it.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,343
    edited January 2013
    Priced MUCH HIGHER?

    I would think if, to use made up but approximate numbers, that an Audi A4 or BMW 3 (something) can be "nicely contented," which I suspect means, these days, Premium Package, Premium Paint (and Infiniti doesn't, currently, charge for any color they offer), Nav Package, and Sport Package or Technology Package (but not both) for something between $45K and $49K -- depending on the "either or" packages and metallic paint, bla bla bla, that Infiniti would be -- even with this new presumably sexy Q50 -- hard pressed to come in at parity with the Germans.

    I mean, really, my last A4 (a 2009) was $49K -- for $49K I'm going to stick with the German car. I wouldn't pay $49K for the G (or the new Q -- at least not until it is vetted by you all here on Edmunds and the motoring press, etc.)

    I would think the Q50 will have to be very nicely equipped (meaning all the bells and whistles Infiniti can offer -- but not the hybrid version) and a few grand less to win, to conquer the pro German buyers.

    I leased my current Acura TL SH-AWD Advance ONLY because it was much less than a 2012 A4 comparably equipped and a hell of a lot less than an S4 which the TL somewhat "imitiates."

    I'll scope out a new A4, BMW and probably C class. Then I will do my best "objective" comparison with and without a consideration of price.

    If the Q50 turns out to be BMW-like and is hundreds less per month in payments or thousands less in MSRP (and/or street price) and is either contented at or greater than the BMW, I'll very probably give the Q50 serious consideration.

    If the Q50 is close to the "cost" of the German rivals -- with even somewhat close content, the German is with very high certainty going to be the chosen one.

    I could be wrong -- but, not uncertain, of course -- and perhaps the new ex-Audi alum, Infiniti CEO will want to pump up the Q50's MSRP to achieve parity with the German "B" segment from the get-go.

    My logic, hopefully not specious, is that the Infiniti Q50 no matter how much it is called the Japanese BMW will not be able to command BMW prices until such time -- if ever -- that people start calling the BMW, "the German Infiniti."

    :surprise: DOH!

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 4,562
    I'm still struggling to get over those new prices. I mentioned that already, but 320i sedan, if comparably equipped, would be priced HIGHER than my E91 328 wagon, with couple of (small) things even missing. Basically, 60 hp or so less, less metal, cheaper interior, pay the same. I dread the day pricing of new 328i wagon will be released (I assume it will be 328, not 320). I suspect it will start in low 40s shooting to something like 55 grand after putting same equipment, as my current one. :cry: :cry:

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,294
    According to other sources they will expand the offering to include some Mb parts- as noted here... nder-and-a-diesel

    So does that make them half German.

    This was mentioned in some of my past posts ( you can search) that they have a platform agreement to share.

    "Many people stated" ok that's a switch from the last post- but if you did a search it's a select few -

    "Interesting to see what top q50 will go for" I could bet its going to be less then current 335, and prob closer if to "top" BMW 328 will go for and offer more( in tech for sure). Just like the g35 I own- did and does vs the comp at that time.. For the people who think the Infiniti needs a great car please look at us sales numbers vs Lexus is and acura to over the last 6 years- they have a great car - lets hope it's even better.

    Blinders off - let's wait for the reviews and have a ride.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 10,140
    mark....I think a point can be made that at least the 328i and the 335i motors are WAY underated as far as power is concerned.

    As you made mention of, getting a G (or now Q50) or an Acura TL to butt heads at the $50K mark puts them among the best of the segment (namely, the BMW, MB and the Audi). They don't want that fight if I had to guess.

    Speculation, but sounds like the Q50 will be larger, with the same power trains. So, performance with today's G would be similar.

    I'll reserve judgement on looks until it shows up in the flesh. But, if it comes in anywhere north of $45K, it's going to cannabalize the M, which is close to that number discounted.

    Following the train of thought that the Q50 will be a slightly smaller M (will it become the M50 with the same 3.7L?), and given how slow the M is selling, anyone care to make a deduction on the new Q's sales numbers?

    BTW, the local Infiniti dealer is advertising cars (relatively) cheap right now. $7K off a G37x. $5,500 off a G25. $6K off an M. A little ngetiation and probably beat those prices by a few hundred more.
    2018 Acura TLX SH AWD ASpec
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 2,071
    Dino it is all relative, when I bought my 330i and the price I paid compared to what a new 335i is. But as we all know prices goes up and not down. So the new 3 series wagon is bigger then your's and the biggest complaint with the E90 was rear passenger room, and the 2013 wagon will have more room. I'm hoping that the wagon will come in RWD and AWD, I haven't gotten any conformation on it, which is odd, as I'm sure the final product has been approved.
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 2,071
    Graphic here in Phoenix the infiniti dealers have been taking $4500 off most G37s, maybe this is how they are selling so much, lets just discount them to a point that it makes sense to lease one over a BMW or Audi.
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 4,562
    edited January 2013
    So yes, it is relative. You expect prices to go up. But one expects also quality to at least remain, if not improve. I do not see this in new 3-series.

    Well, replacing 330 with 335 few years back at similar price was a great deal, as 335 is much stronger than 330 and gas mileage was maintained if not improved. But the new 320 is going to be priced about same as previous 328 - and that is not a good deal. Especially because:
    - the steering feedback on new 3-series is a step in WRONG direction
    - quality of materials on new 3-series is clearly result of cost-cutting spree (chep "hard" switches, cheap "ratchet-like" feeling iDrive, cheap "hard" door latch from 80s).
    - 50 horses was sent to pastures (180 vs 230), but you pay just about the same; you will gain miles per gallon, which some people will appreciate, but I find my E91 at 23-25 mpg on the daily commute satisfactory (not mindblowing, but decent).

    I would consider 320 a good deal, but at price point about 5 grand below. And the got to fix the steering, the interior feel and the damn door latch.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,935
    A lot of information here, for those who care: kit

    - Ray
    Still a BMW driver...
    2016 BMW 340i
  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,294
    Wow imagine if you just signed a deal to buy a 57k automatic 335x - I'm sure that cats accountant would be pissed.

    Dollars make sense - remember this is Elpps -
  • mlevinemlevine Posts: 349
    Having owned infiniti vehicles in the past, I always like to see and test drive the new vehicles when they come out. I recently looked at the JX this past December. For the money the inetrior and options were great. The drive was very sluggish without any guts. About 2 years ago looked at the M37 with interior and options great, but transmission did not shift well. Test drove the QX56 great pickup and great vehicle. Based on infiniti's trend the inside of the Q50 showed be very appealing. My concern is how it will drive as I am concerned about the transmission, only a test drive will answer that question. I find one cannot compare Japanese vehicle to German vehicle. They are very different and both have its positives and negatives.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 10,140
    edited February 2013
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 8,862
    It's FWD biased so it'll be dismissed here....
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