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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans



  • "Which gets us right back to the Acura....easy-peezy on reliability and maintenance"

    Really!!! my dealer wants $198 + tax for my A12 service which is basically oil & filter as well as air cleaner. The rest is the gimmicky check and balances which is basically eye service and checking a box.
    This is for a TL AWD.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 10,140
    billy.....personally, I would buy my own airfilter and install it. What would that cost? $15-$20, maybe?

    Oil changes...IIRC, when I had my TL, the dealer would send out coupons for a $49.95 oil change, tire rotation and some visual inspections.

    I forget. What does the A12 service entail?
    2018 Acura TLX SH AWD ASpec
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 25,374
    I think the AWD TL is the same as the RDX and they add in rear end diff fluid changes that the FWD version obviously does not need, and they are every couple of years.

    2015 Hyundai Sonata 2.4i Limited Tech (mine), 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's) and 2015 Jetta Sport (daughter's)

  • Thats exactly what I did- i bought my own (parts) and I will take to my mechanic for istallation, air filter, oil and filter change and maybe rear diff (dont think its needed at 24K).
  • If cross shopping was considered, I wonder if MB execs were sitting around pissed at blatant cloning (Genesis) and said lets build a sub-$30k car that's a better looking Sonata and see how Hyundai likes that.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,343
    edited October 2013
    I don't know if I posted that my wife ordered a 2014 Q5 3.0T P+ with the sport interior, nav, B&O, blind spot monitoring, etc. Thing is, as is her "policy" we test drive the crap outta anything she is even remotely serious about. Once she had it down to the Q5, it was a matter of "which engine?"

    We drove the slightly HP (+9) up-rated 2014 2.0T with the 8-spd tiptronic; then the 3.0T also with the 8-spd (of course, since that is all that is offered) then the 2.0T and so on.

    I decided I really liked the "detuned" S4 engine enough to rule out even an all sported up A4 2.0T S-Line -- meaning a new IS 350 F Sport AWD was the only way to go. At the time, I knew I was not worthy of an S4 -- and besides, they were in a whole 'nother price class.

    So, I configured the IS, got a "no strings attached" order placed (apparently none exist with the uprated sound system -- they have to be ordered?!) :confuse: And was prepped to wait 120 days. Mean time back in Audi-ville, the new 3.0T Q5 production reports started coming in -- we even got the arrival date and got the Audi dealer to take the 2011 Infiniti FX35 off of my wife's hands about 5 months ahead of the lease termination.

    The Audi dealer is a sweet-heart (due to our lengthy history with Audi and the dealership) and a couple of weeks ago, the sales rep sent me an email offering test drives of an A5 2.0T (with sport suspension) and an S-Tronic S4 (which I had already tested and was smitten by).

    To make a long story short, my membership in the Audi Club got me an immediate 6% off of the sticker of a new Audi and *BONUS* got my wife a $1,000 loyalty bonus on her inbound 3.0T Q5.

    It was like watching the Exorcist 128 times in a row -- "It got better and better every time."

    So, I said, get me a new S4 in Ibis white (a no charge paint color) and nav and B&O and blind spot monitoring and I'm there.

    No wait.

    Get me one, like the above but with the Magma Red Leather interior and carbon fiber inlays.

    There's one in the US (in NY) and none on a boat. Never mind, I'll order one.

    Days later -- email dings: The NY car is yours.

    It is being trucked from NY to Cincinnati practically as we speak.

    Hmm an S4 vs an IS 350 F Sport? The S-Tronic transmission (DSG) is worth the price of admission and the supercharged engine is, well, incredible and, all things considered, economical. Put the thing in dynamic mode and it is a four-door hot rod. Keep it in comfort mode and it is just south of a full-on LPS.

    I've never had a red interior -- but the pictures of the leather and the contrast with the white exterior seem, er, almost tasteful.

    I'm starting to feel more worthy. :surprise:

    Good bye Acura TL, good bye.

  • Congrats!
    Correct me if I am wrong, based on Edmunds TMV, 6% off MSRP translates to a approximately $200 over invoice: $54,725 MSRP as I optioned = $51,442?
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,343
    edited October 2013
    I believe you are right. When I started out, pre Audi Club discount, the dealer offered 5% off. The ACNA certificate bumped it up to 6%. The dealer discounted the Q5 MORE than 6%, so the ACNA discount wasn't the best deal.

    My wife ordered the Q5 in Curvee Silver with the Chestnut brown sport interior giving her sport seats (ahhhhhh) and the three spoke steering wheel with paddle shifters.

    Funny thing, the S4 S-Tronic has paddle shifters but the car is smarter than most people (like me), so you're better off leaving the S-Tronic to its own devices. The 8-speed tiptronic, however, only comes with paddle shifters if you get the sport interior (which is rare), and the 8-speed benefits from them.

    Here's one that puzzles me: why not market an A4 with the same engine as the Q5 3.0T (a detuned S4 supercharged affair good for 295 ft pounds of torque)?

    I haven't had a speeding ticket in almost 20 years -- gulp! The S4 could easily break that streak.

    I think the S4 has "high-def" (is that right?) radio too; my wife's last BMW had that and it was quite enjoyable and actually had better fidelity than sat radio.

    More info once I get the thing.

  • carnaughtcarnaught 'zonaPosts: 2,341
    Congrats on these cars. Great choices, great colors. I've always liked the white/red leather combo since (gulp) the 70's. Either this or the black with red, I think are among the nicest. The great thing about a red interior is that it isn't drab like black or light beige interiors. It's also easy to keep clean and every time you get in the car, it really pops and you'll be energized. (Can you tell I like red?) Anyhow, good luck, and keep us apprised.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 4,056
    "Good bye Acura TL, good bye."

    I think you enjoyed it, but there's nothing like going back to the mother ship, apparently.

    You and a number of ther people on these boards have gone through 4-6 cars in the time it's taken me to live with two. The second/current is an Acura TSX, and it's not given me a bit of trouble, beyond the fact that the damn driver's door wants to close itself far too easily. That's the sum total of my complaint (singular) in 5.5 years and 80K miles of driving. It drives the wrong pair of wheels, but has a delightful manual transmission and a suspension that was developed for the rest of the world, so I'm very pleased overall.

    You can now continue bumping up the number of Audis you've been in possession of over the years. Sounds like your wife has returned to the fold also.
  • ztz199ztz199 Posts: 1
    i just bought a 2010 tsx when i got home i wanted to check the oil, when i pulled out the oil dip stick i noticed that it was black not like the ususal silver ones i have never seen a black one, i couldnt even tell if the oil was clean or not untill i used a towel and saw that it was a bit dirty, my question the oil dipstick supposed to be black and why would the oil not be clear, the dealership did change the filters cleaned the whole engine before i took it home
  • tifightertifighter WAPosts: 1,895
    The A12 does not include the rear diff; that is a 6 in Acura-speak. A12 should be oil change, filter chg, pollen filter and tire rotation.

    15.5 XC70 T6 / 16 Soul EV / 17 Toyota 86

  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 9,211
    Would be interesting to drive an S4 back to back with the full Quattro (rear differential add-on) vs. the BASE Quattro AWD. To me that would be more important than the inlays.

    Besides, I prefer the aluminum inlays to the carbon fiber, and they are cheaper to boot!

    Do 100% agree on the magma red interior being the best, I got mine ordered with the Misano Red exterior to go with it. I'm no longer afraid of cops; I'm too old and too wise; but they still waste my time with court appearances.
    Toy '16 Audi TTS quattro AWD, Commuter '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6 Turbo FWD, Wife's '17 VW Golf All-Track SE 4-Motion AWD
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 10,140
    markincincinnati....congrats. Mine is Ibis white with the black leather and alcantara seats.

    DSG I leave in sport mode. No way I could shift a manual and throttle blip as fast as the DSG does.

    Mine is the same as andres and yours except for the all leather seats, and mine has the trick toque vectoring differential.

    Where did you get yours? Montgomery or Beechmont?
    2018 Acura TLX SH AWD ASpec
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 64,772
    mark is an Audi Connection guy, I think...


    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 2,072
    First off, congrats Mark on the new purchase's.. One question, I was not aware that you can get any other color interior than black with the sport package, every time I built an Audi on line and choose the sport back, the interior would default to black glad to know this isn't the case, Rick has been looking at a Q5 on line..

    Now, talking about new cars.... A couple of weeks back I had started talking with the BMW dealer about a purchase of a 320i. Then Rick and I took off for New England and NYC for a week, on my return we continued to talk more, so Friday, I went to the dealership and finalized the deal. It is Jet Black, Beige Leather with Premium Package, 8spd auto. I made out pretty good, 2K built Credit, 750 returning BMW owner, 500 USAA , and 1K graduate money. I used the Costco purchase agreement, which gave me the car $750 over invoice, when it was all said and done, OTD price was $35,275. I took the BMW select financing for 4 years. It was nice to walk out with zero out of pocket. I didn't want to lease the car as my payment would have been higher, and Rick would be using the car while I'm at work.

    Drove the car up to Sedona that evening, on this trip up and back averaged 33.6 not bad for a car with 47 miles when starting off. Speed was between 55 to 90, the higher speed was not intentional the car doesn't feel the speed as in my past BMWs. I wish I had the BMW Assist but over on BimmerFest it seem that it can be added to the car.

    I have to say, I really like the car, yes, it has elec steering, but the only time you really know it is when you really push the car, and on city streets one doesn't get to that limit. So far I like the 8 spd auto, when in sport mode, the car up shift quickly and down shift just as fast. Now it just to learn all of the fun things that iDrive does...
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 10,140
    Don't know why, but those Audi Connection people (part of the Joseph Group, who also own the Infiniti dealership, among many others) aren't particularly easy for me to deal with.

    Anyway....congrats on the S4 Mark.

    FN....congrats to you on the new 320i. Nice ride. Keep us posted on how you like it.
    2018 Acura TLX SH AWD ASpec
  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 2,072
    Graphic one unique thing really is, I'll be able to compare it to other cars, I'll be driving rentals more then my own car, so far the 2014 Impala is my car of choice to rent. I wish national would have TL's but no dice. Plenty of G37's though.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 10,140
    edited October 2013
    FN...seems as if most of the rentals I've been getting lately are Mitsubishis (huh?).
    Mitsu must have done a fleet dump of recent inventory.

    I've seen some of the newer Impalas at the rental lots. But, I can't seem to snag one.

    Would love to hear about the 320i as you get more seat time in it. Again, congratz.
    2018 Acura TLX SH AWD ASpec
  • Both my wife's Q5 and my S4 came (or will come) from Greg @ the Audi Connection. My wife's 2011 FX35 also came from another Joseph dealership, Infiniti of Cincinnati.

    Dealing with these folks has always been a pleasure -- and the Audi Club membership helped with the price (on the S4). Service departments at both Audi and Infiniti have been great, too.

    We went ahead and got the Audi Care mntce programs -- something missed on both the Acura and the Infiniti. The premium cars we have had experience with are always very pricey to maintain -- even the Infiniti. On the other hand, the service departments at Acura, Audi, BMW and Infiniti have always been delightful in terms of giving customers the red carpet treatment.

    We bought the Q5 and leased the S4. Don't laugh, but we have NEVER purchased a car -- it is scary, since we have always felt that houses should be purchased and cars should be rented.

    Those folks who have never leased, probably don't get why we have some fear and trepidation about buying. I guess it is like getting married vs living together. Buying seems like a commitment, leasing not so much. Cars however are transitory, ephemeral -- so, to us buying is a scary proposition.

    Now the Q5, based on its anticipated depreciation, is not as much of a financial risk as many cars are.

    We'll let you know how this venture into this new experience works out.

  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 2,072
    Graphic who do you rent through? I only go through National since the company I work for has a contract with them. Two weeks ago I was in Burlington,VT, and rented a Volvo XC60, interesting SUV, no Impala's. But for the most part the bigger cities I arrive in have them now.

    I'll write more on the 320 in the coming weeks, I need some seat time in it, I'll be on the road for the next 13 days.. I'm paying for the 13 days I had off.
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 9,211
    I had a real estate agent once tell me that he never regretted or had buyer's remorse with real estate, since unlike cars, they don't depreciate right away. That was 2004.

    Funny thing is I think my Condo out-depreciated my car in CA.

    Of course, a home can last you 100 years (you could depreciate the purchase over 100 years), and the car perhaps only 10-15 years.
    Toy '16 Audi TTS quattro AWD, Commuter '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6 Turbo FWD, Wife's '17 VW Golf All-Track SE 4-Motion AWD
  • Mark I have to ask you this (not that I am getting personal), but dont you have around 18 months left on your TL lease?
    Are you that unsatisfied with the car that you are willing to eat those 18 months of payments?

    Secondly, I disagree with your concepts of leasing/buying cars, I will not get into the nuts and bolts of it- I just disagree.
  • The situation with the TL is that I have 10 months left on the lease. At the lease's conclusion, my mileage situation means I would owe about $5,000 to walk away from Acura. Acura, unlike Infiniti, doesn't allow you to buy miles at lease inception at a discount. My wife bought 18K miles per year on her lease, I couldn't do that.

    My TL is an SH-AWD advance -- and, after detailing it last week, it looks nearly new. Using three web-sites, plus CarFAX, I was able to determine that to abandon my lease will cost less than $2K today.

    So I am going to be ding'd -- a little now vs a lot then. My plan, at this point is to consider buying the S4 off lease (I will have first right of refusal) with a CPO warranty and Audi Care to 100,000 miles. Audi does allow the purchase of additional miles after lease inception, but before the last 6 months of the lease.

    As noted, we're thinking buying should not be completely discounted -- so we're taking the buy one rent one (and possibly buy later) approach since we've no experience with buying a car and find the concept almost foreign.

    So, yep terminating the lease early will cost me, but not nearly as much as going to full term.

    Your mileage may differ.

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 11,328
    Congrats to you both on your new cars! Interesting we are going to have 3 S4s on the board here.

    Mark - that S4 is a sick car. you are absolutely going to LOVE it! I'm sure your wife will love that super charged Q5 as well. Can't wait to hear your impressions.

    flightnurse - I'm eager to hear what your thoughts are on the 320i being a former ZHP owner.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Infiniti G37x Q40 AWD

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 11,328
    So mark, just curious. If you had kept your TL until the end of the lease, what is that car's residual?

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Infiniti G37x Q40 AWD

  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    edited October 2013
    I'll second NYC.

    Congrats Mark and FN (I saw your pics :) ) on your new cars! Excellent choices all around!
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    I saw a Q50 on the way to work this morning. It was a metallic burgundy color and looked really nice. Whoever it was who said a few days ago that the Q50 looks better in person than in pictures was dead on. Its a really good looking car.
  • I cannot argue with you, its your money-Good luck with the S4.
    I will probably join the Audi Band Wagon in a couple of years... maybe sooner.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,343
    edited October 2013
    The Audi Prestige and Acura Advance pose at least one question I intellectually understand but "just don't seem right!"

    The Prestige and Advance "configurations" from Audi and Acura seem to me to be a way to bundle virtually "everything" into one package. Indeed, the Acura Advance has no options that can be had, the Advance (over the technology package version) adds 19" wheels, heated and ventilated seats and blind spot monitoring.

    The Prestige Audi adds a number of extras (on top of the next lower configuration, Premium+) and seems to offer the buyer a slightly better deal when purchased as part of the Prestige package. Although in the case of Audi, it is possible to add most of the Prestige features (for extra cost, of course) to the Premium+. In other words, if you wanted blind spot monitoring, you can tick off that option on a Premium+ version for $500 and NOT get the navigation system which comes standard with the Prestige version.

    OK, now that I have tap danced around your question, I'll mention that the top of the line configurations have lower residuals than the "middle children."

    We configured my wife's Q5 and my S4 by building up Premium+ models to have most of the Prestige's features which actually means that our residual % on Premium+ is higher than the maxed out contented Prestige models.

    You may wonder why we researched the residual of the Q5 since we are buying it -- but the reason to know the residual has to do with knowing at least the possible value of the depreciating asset at various times during the financing contract. In other words, knowing the "residual" does allow us to have an understanding of when the car is no longer upside down. With the S4, the residual is important for obvious reasons, since it is leased. The S4 P+ has an attractive residual indeed which is, of course, a double edged sword.

    The higher residual lowers the mo/pay but also raises the cost of buying the car off lease should we decide to go that route.

    Now to answer your question:

    My 2012 Acura TL SH-AWD Advance has a % residual $ amt = $24,509.85.

    The MSRP was = $47,166.30. ~52% residual in other words.

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