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  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 12,198
    rayainsw said:

    For anyone here who might be considering European Delivery on a BMW:

    http://www.bimmerfest.com/news/863248/bmw-european-delivery-discount-reduced-5-percent-january-2016/

    Oh well, I'll probably never even take American delivery of another BMW.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2014 M235i; 2009 Cooper Clubman; 1999 Wrangler; 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i

  • BMW reduces ED discount from 7% to 5%.

    Does this mean that the discount that is offered a retail customer will be 5% off of MSRP or 5% off of the negotiated selling price at the US dealer?

    At the time (late 2013), I got 6% off of the MSRP of a 2014 S4. My wife also got that percentage off of an SQ5 a couple of months later. These "S" cars are usually discounted less than the non-S versions, so we thought 6% off of US MSRP was a decent deal -- and we both got EXACTLY the car that we wanted, not the second color we would except, etc, but the exact cars we wanted.

    Now, having said this, does this mean that it would actually be possible to pay MORE for a new BMW purchased through the ED program than it would cost to buy one from a dealer in the US for US delivery?

    Or does it mean negotiate your best price and THEN take 5% off for ED?

    My experience is that 5% is not all that hard to get from a US dealer, thus making the ED option less attractive with a reduction of 2%.
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 8,863
    The ED MSRP and Invoice is 7% and will be 5% less than the normal MSRP and Invoice price. It is possible to negotiate a better ED price on a BMW than the official prices as there is some profit left for the dealer.

    It is quite possible to pay more for an ED car than taking a car in stock but some people feel the trip to the Welt in Munich is worth it.

    My understanding is the discounts are as follows:

    Audi - 5%
    BMW - 7% going to 5%
    Mercedes - 7%
    Porsche - 0%
    Volvo - 3-10%

    All provide one night's hotel stay, 15 days of insurance, shipping back to the US, and airport transfers. Volvo adds 2 round trip air tickets and a tasty meatball meal in their cafe. Volvo even has tourist programs available that you can book at the same time. Right now, Volvo is also offering and extra $1000 discount in European deliveries.
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 5,501
    edited October 2015
    robr2 said:

    The ED MSRP and Invoice is 7% and will be 5% less than the normal MSRP and Invoice price. It is possible to negotiate a better ED price on a BMW than the official prices as there is some profit left for the dealer.

    It is quite possible to pay more for an ED car than taking a car in stock but some people feel the trip to the Welt in Munich is worth it.

    My understanding is the discounts are as follows:

    Audi - 5%
    BMW - 7% going to 5%
    Mercedes - 7%
    Porsche - 0%
    Volvo - 3-10%

    All provide one night's hotel stay, 15 days of insurance, shipping back to the US, and airport transfers. Volvo adds 2 round trip air tickets and a tasty meatball meal in their cafe. Volvo even has tourist programs available that you can book at the same time. Right now, Volvo is also offering and extra $1000 discount in European deliveries.

    Small additions/corrections:

    1. Only BMW price is negotiable, others are set by manufacturer. In other words, BMW uses exactly the same invoice-to-retail scheme, just at lower levels. I think the difference comes from BMW using dealer same way to purchase the vehicle, whereas others may be using their dealers only to handle the paperwork (and purchase is direct from them).
    2. BMW 7% (now going to 5%) discount on both invoice and retail price applies ONLY to the base price of each line (e.g. 328i, 335i, 535ix, etc.). All options (such as metallic paint, premium pack, nav, etc.) are priced at same level as US delivery. Destination charge (BMW loves advertising "from" without inclusion of those $900+, like we actually had an option of not paying it - I really hate that, it's unseemly) is also full US level, no discount. This makes the "blended" discount closer to 5.8-6.5% for more heavily optioned vehicles - now it will be just about 4-4.5%.
    3. BMW DOES NOT include hotel stay, only transportation from the airport to the hotel downtown, or directly to BMW Welt.
    4. BMW will feed you over the course of the day at BMW Welt in their cafeteria and you also get a talkien 20 euros credit or so in their restaurant (won't cover full meal, but will be OK to buy something with it).
    4. X-models are made in the US for the entire world, thus are not eligible for ED.
    5. I think Porsche may actually have a surcharge on the price, but I'm not sure about it.


    I totally agree - the ED is not about the money discount, it's about the experience. We are still lucky here in the US to get anything. Canadians, or others (Brazilians, Europeans) get the BMW Welt delivery, but no discount.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 10,918

    Not seeing this VW/Audi/Porsche dieslmthung going awaynany time soon. Current diesel customers won't like the fix. They'll want some sort of compensation for not getting what ghey thought they were buying. Potential future customers crossing the brands off their "buy" list.

    Then there are the fines, which will keep,the financials of the company in the spotlight (not in a good way), for a good long while, too.

    It's just a mess.

    Best to all current VW/Audi/Porsche customers. Whether you own their gas vehicles or diesel vehicles, reputation is a hard thing to regain once it's lost.

    If flying to DC in gross polluting high NOX emission jet planes begging for bailouts for failed business enterprises didn't hurt the Big 3's reputation much, certainly tricking the EPA won't hurt much either other than fines that go into somebodies pocket.
    '16 Audi TTS quattro 2.0T, '15 Audi A4 quattro 2.0T, '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6T
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 5,501
    edited October 2015

    BMW reduces ED discount from 7% to 5%.

    Does this mean that the discount that is offered a retail customer will be 5% off of MSRP or 5% off of the negotiated selling price at the US dealer?

    Neither. The price is simply negotiated same way as it were US delivery, with "ED MSRP" and "ED Invoice" values being

    NOW:
    ED Price (MSRP/Invoice) = US BASE Price (MSRP/Invoice)*0.93 + US OPTION price (MSRP/Invoice)+US Destination (same both levels);

    SOON:
    ED Price (MSRP/Invoice) = US BASE Price (MSRP/Invoice)*0.95 + US OPTION price (MSRP/Invoice)+US Destination (same both)

    Essentially the ED Invoice is what the dealer pays, whereas ED MSRP is what it sounds. You negotiate with the dealer where you hit within that spread. Values strongly depend on markets - some dealers don't even want to hear about discounting from ED MSRP (following theory of always preferring selling a unit from the lot rather than one not built yet). Unlike US deliveries, ED vehicles are not subject to allotments, training fee, or some other fees BMW may charge the dealers. Conversely, ED is not eligible for certain customer cash rebates (the disclaimers often specifically say that), such as those you may get by participating in their "Drive" events. I believe BMW Sports Club discount does apply.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • flightnurseflightnurse Valley of HellPosts: 2,178

    BMW reduces ED discount from 7% to 5%.

    Does this mean that the discount that is offered a retail customer will be 5% off of MSRP or 5% off of the negotiated selling price at the US dealer?

    At the time (late 2013), I got 6% off of the MSRP of a 2014 S4. My wife also got that percentage off of an SQ5 a couple of months later. These "S" cars are usually discounted less than the non-S versions, so we thought 6% off of US MSRP was a decent deal -- and we both got EXACTLY the car that we wanted, not the second color we would except, etc, but the exact cars we wanted.

    Now, having said this, does this mean that it would actually be possible to pay MORE for a new BMW purchased through the ED program than it would cost to buy one from a dealer in the US for US delivery?

    Or does it mean negotiate your best price and THEN take 5% off for ED?

    My experience is that 5% is not all that hard to get from a US dealer, thus making the ED option less attractive with a reduction of 2%.

    Mark, the MSRP for a ED BMW is still lower then the "regular" MSRP, since the car is considered a used car to the US government and so the tax's are lower.

    This is not new, news, I think I mentioned this in one my report. 2% is roughly less then a grand, it's known that 10% off regualr MSRP is the norm for a good ED price.
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 5,501

    Mark, the MSRP for a ED BMW is still lower then the "regular" MSRP, since the car is considered a used car to the US government and so the tax's are lower.
    Which taxes? Surely not my sales tax. Florida taxes new and used car sales the same, anyway, I think. Perhaps you are thinking of US custom tariff, which if true, would make sense. I have no idea what tariffs are on vehicles, as they are generally included in the price of the product and not itemized the same way say state sales taxes are.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 8,863
    My understanding isn't that the import taxes are that much less on a used car, Rather, ED cars do not have holdback on them, don't qualify for dealer incentives or bonus money, and the US subsidiary profit is wiped away since they didn't sell the car. Hence the manufacturer saves those funds and passes that onto the consumer.
  • Someone said the dealer would rather sell off the lot than promote/sell a car not yet built. From the time I had purchased my 5th or 6th Audi -- and became friends with my dealer/owner -- he told me he would much rather have only "test drive" inventory, service loaner inventory and some used cars. He shared with me that ordered cars have some profit, whereas cars on the lot have less profit. He said he wished US customers were more like European customers, in that they order cars -- dealers are not for the purpose of inventory control, rather they are in the business of demand creation and demand fulfillment via taking orders.

    Out of nearly three dozens Audis since 1977, my wife and I have only purchased one car off the lot, and that was a 1996 A6 (that we leased for 12 months) that we used until our 1997 A8 (which took nearly a year from order to delivery) came into the US.

    I find buying off the lot to mean one thing -- compromise. You pay more and you often settle for something that is simply not exactly what you wanted.

    I don't get the thought process of waking up one Saturday morning and saying to your spouse, "let's go buy a car today." Of course y'all must think me daft since I start buying my next car the day after I pick up my latest car -- test driving is a serious hobby for my wife and me, that is. We test drive cars for, perhaps, 36 months then we order one and pick it up 2-6 months later.

    It is quite educational -- the test driving that is -- and it is low cost fun, to boot.

    Drive it like YOU live (natch)!
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 5,501
    edited October 2015
    I agree that your friend store owner would rather his business model changed, if he could, and sell cars from a book. However, the reality of US customer and his/her need for instant gratification (whether it's cultural or induced from the past) and the dealers play into it by holding large inventories. So, once they have such inventories, they used large amount of capital and are paying interest for the financing, rent for the location, upkeep, electricity. The calculus changes - instant sell of a car from the stock means no more interest paid and more working capital for the next unit. Essentially, the incentives and motivation reversed in favor of the stock.

    Upscale brands are straddling between those big volume stores, where if you say "order" you have them running from you screaming bloody murder, and uberluxury, where virtually every car is ordered (like Rolls Royce). They are walking the line between one type of customer, who want a car today and another, who want the car, but can wait, if needed.

    Also, some people limit their choice to a color and perhaps couple of optional items (rest is not important), they focus on those plus price, others would rather walk on foot then get a car with a missing feature (or one feature too many).

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 32,969
    Many people still buy cars because they have to get one right away. Accident, old one died, etc. so has to be some amount of inventory.

    All custom orders makes less sense for volume, "appliance" brands like a Camry or civic.

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 12,198
    edited October 2015
    No BMW dealer I've dealt with has ever had a new BMW in their inventory that I would consider buying. For example, even if I wanted an F30 335i or F22 M235i, the cars at my local dealer are all equipped with xDrive or automatics- or both. And most all of them are black, white, or silver. Meh.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2014 M235i; 2009 Cooper Clubman; 1999 Wrangler; 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i

  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,343
    edited October 2015
    Ain't it the truth regarding the limited colors available -- and, at the risk of being creamed here -- why do all these high-buck German cars always seem to have black interiors? I ONCE got a black interior (and that was in an Acura TL) because the dealer discounted the car so seriously once he found out that I would walk out rather than have a black interior car. I got rid of this car as quickly as finances and family would allow -- I get inside of a black car and my mood darkens, my optimism vanishes, the interior seems so tiny, hot and constantly dusty.

    Yet, you walk into the Audi dealer and there is this beautiful A6 3/0T Prestige, sport package, upsized wheels, and every functional and fun option man or god has created, all for the bargain basement price of $68K and the dealer ONLY has them with black interiors.

    Have we become so uncreative, so bleak, so moribund that we can only "see ourselves" in black cars, gun-metal gray cars, white cars -- all with black on black on black interiors?

    Now, as you know, I resent seeing a $ next to the color -- and ONLY black gloss or white gloss are free colors, but the interior options usually provide several no-charge options at least once Premium Package (which they all have) is included.

    My dealer actually, now, has a lot of cars on the lot and on the "overflow lot" several miles away from the dealership. But they're all black, dark-silver, gray or gloss white -- most with the dreaded (by me) black leather interiors. Reminds me of:

    "And they're all made out of ticky-tacky; And they all look just the same."

    Black cars with black interiors must be the PC equivalent for cars these days -- well except they offend the hell out of me.

    Oh gawd, have you, lately been invited to a fund-raiser at someone's country club (with valet parking)? We were invited to a fund-raiser to raise money for inner-city disadvantaged kids; "business attire" was specified, so you trot out the dark suit, tie and shiny shoes and pull up to the valet behind a line of black, gray, silver and white German cars (and the odd Lexus or Jaguar) all the while unable to suppress the lyrics: "And they're all made out of ticky-tacky; And they all look just the same." It was all for a good cause, but it certainly was a sad indictment of where we've come to.

    I keep telling myself that I'll bite the bullet and pay for the paint color next time -- we'll just have to wait and see if I can actually pay extra for a paint color other than black or white.

    What a world, what a world -- I'm melting, I'm melting [sic]. . . .
  • flightnurseflightnurse Valley of HellPosts: 2,178

    Ain't it the truth regarding the limited colors available -- and, at the risk of being creamed here -- why do all these high-buck German cars always seem to have black interiors?

    Because that is what sells. Now this according to a couple of Client advisers I have spoken with. For BMW black interior is the color of choice, I don't get it, since it makes the interior of a 3 series look small.
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 5,501
    I have black interior and I like it. Saddle brown is pretty good, too. But I've seen a lot of white and beige around here. Now - the higher level models, like 7-series probably do have more black interiors than anything.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 32,969
    After having black leather in my Accord, I said never again. too hot, and dreary.

    but when my son got his Jetta, he purposely chose black instead of the tan (could have had either).

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 5,192
    Agree, I don't like black. Only car we've ever had with black interior is our Mazda 5 and the black carpet shows every bit of dust and particles.
    I've had blue and beige and prefer them both. Blue is currently out of style but I really do like the slightly yellow creamy leather color. Many beiges are out there but some are a bit bland. My Acura TL has a more rich beige they called Camel - it's almost like a light orange. Looks much better than black IMHO.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Everywhere, USAPosts: 126,124
    I like black.

    In BMWs, the colors are really nice... Terra, Saddle Brown, Chestnut, Coral Red, etc..

    I really don't like light gray or beige. Especially if the carpet colors match. I can live with lighter seat material, if it has black or dark gray carpets.

    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!

    Edmunds Moderator

  • carnaughtcarnaught Desert SWPosts: 2,753
    I've always liked a white car with a coral red, chestnut, or saddle leather interior. I agree, it has to have the dark carpeting. White or silver cars with black interiors, to me, are lack-luster.
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 12,198
    edited October 2015
    carnaught said:

    I've always liked a white car with a coral red, chestnut, or saddle leather interior. I agree, it has to have the dark carpeting. White or silver cars with black interiors, to me, are lack-luster.

    Same here, my wife's 2009 E90 has a full beige interior and the carpets and seats show the tiniest speck of dirt. It doesn't help that the more recent BMW interiors don't age all that well; the interiors of my 2007 MS3(156k miles) and 1995 E36(142k miles) show much less wear.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2014 M235i; 2009 Cooper Clubman; 1999 Wrangler; 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i

  • flightnurseflightnurse Valley of HellPosts: 2,178
    carnaught said:

    I've always liked a white car with a coral red, chestnut, or saddle leather interior. I agree, it has to have the dark carpeting. White or silver cars with black interiors, to me, are lack-luster.

    When I do my ED in 2017, my 440i Grand Coupe will be Mineral Grey with Coral Interior.
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 5,501
    edited October 2015
    I will have Melbourne Red 440i GC with either black/red stitch or saddle brown. Don't know yet. Very strange, but BMW just restricted the red from M-Sports package just on the 4-series (you can have it with 3). I don't really get it. I like that package for the shadowline trim (black door frames), but I'd likely let it go, as I still rather have the red.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • carnaughtcarnaught Desert SWPosts: 2,753
    edited October 2015
    dino001 said:

    I will have Melbourne Red 440i GC with either black/red stitch or saddle brown. Don't know yet. Very strange, but BMW just restricted the red from M-Sports package just on the 4-series (you can have it with 3). I don't really get it. I like that package for the shadowline trim (black door frames), but I'd likely let it go, as I still rather have the red.


    If you order it, you may still be able to get it. That was the case at least with my last ordered BMW several years ago.
  • flightnurseflightnurse Valley of HellPosts: 2,178
    dino001 said:

    I will have Melbourne Red 440i GC with either black/red stitch or saddle brown. Don't know yet. Very strange, but BMW just restricted the red from M-Sports package just on the 4-series (you can have it with 3). I don't really get it. I like that package for the shadowline trim (black door frames), but I'd likely let it go, as I still rather have the red.

    Hey Dino what is the draw of the M Sport? Currently I'm just looking at a 440i, Track Package, Driver Assistance package, Tech package. The Track Package has the M Adaptive Suspension and for $1700 it's a steal.

    Regards to color combo, I'm wondering if BMW is just playing with the web site, since Red was a M Sport color on both the 3 and 4 series. Regarding the Shadowline trim, according to BMW's ordering guide the Shadowline trim was not part of the standard equipment sport, but only on the M Sport, however, our GT has the shadowline trim on it. Like you I wasn't happy with it but accepted but when I saw the car, was very happy.
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 5,501
    edited October 2015
    I basically like the black exterior treatment aesthetics of tha package vs. standard chrome treatments. That's what I have now., by the way, but back then it was packaged differently. I liked the old Le Mans Blue, no longer available. Estoril grew on me a little, but I didn't like it at first. Now it is my second choice, Imperial Blue close third. Very close, more like depends on the time of the day.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • flightnurseflightnurse Valley of HellPosts: 2,178
    dino001 said:

    I basically like the black exterior treatment aesthetics of tha package vs. standard chrome treatments. That's what I have now., by the way, but back then it was packaged differently. I liked the old Le Mans Blue, no longer available. Estoril grew on me a little, but I didn't like it at first. Now it is my second choice, Imperial Blue close third. Very close, more like depends on the time of the day.

    I wish we could have gotten Mediterranean blue.
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 5,501
    edited October 2015
    It's the new one, only on sedan and wagon so far. It is nice, indeed.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Coral Springs, FLPosts: 4,870
    The black interior of our white gloss A3 just seems to fit the size of the vehicle. On my blue Golf, got the ivory interior and so glad I did because in the hot South Florida, black is just too hot for me. When I had a loaner Jetta with the black inside, I just knew I made the right decision. The wife has not complained about her A3's black guts and I don't ask. In the A3, don't think the ivory inside would look very nice, black just seems to work. The Audi has been flawless though the Golf has had a few teething issues but now, all has quieted down as I rack up the miles.
    Our first foray into the German vehicle ownership and funny that we both did it within a couple of weeks of each other but I fell in love with her A3 but had a smaller budget to work with. Look at my Golf as the poor man's A3. Just love the way they both drive, just seems like a well tuned machine and I always smile when I walk into the garage now. Just wish I could get more seat time in the A3 but don't get much of a chance!

    The Sandman :) B)

    2015 Audi A3 (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2008 Hyundai Accent GLS (daughter #2)

  • flightnurseflightnurse Valley of HellPosts: 2,178
    Now for something completely different, Ford Focus RS, new HP figured have been released, 350hp and 350 lbs of torque. Starting price $37K, but knowing Ford Dealers they will be asking for 10 over MSRP.. Now, I found a video of what it sounds like, I wonder if this is what the US bound RS sounds like. blog.caranddriver.com/watch-the-ford-focus-rs-oversteer-like-mad-hear-it-snarl-like-a-beast-video/
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