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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 8,863
    Standalone stores were the plan. Then that nasty little worldwide recession hit and they had to scale back. Nobody was interested in spending the money to launch a new luxury brand. 
  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoPosts: 118,518
    Remember, Mazda thought about doing this as well back in the 90's - brand was to be called "Amati". Would have included the Millenia and, I think, the 929.

    I agree - stand alone stores are really needed to make this work. Hard to sell $15K Accents alongside the $60K Equus and provide the type of buying and servicing experience expected by the buyers of the latter.

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    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2014 MINI Countryman S ALL4

  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,343
    edited November 2015
    I read the test report of the new Genesis 5.0 sedan in C&D, and, mostly, the report indicates the Genesis 5.0 Ultimate Super-duper bla bla bla could be considered to be a lot of car for the money (and the handling issues seem to have been largely erased, to boot) -- if it were a Mercedes E class. The issue is that certain less than impressive feeling of going into the dealership and seeing the $50K+ Genesis alongside some lesser model priced (via lipstick painted on the windshield [very claaaasssy]) well below $20K.

    At least the A3's seem to not be THAT out of character next to the A6's over at the Audi dealer.

    And, as was mentioned above, the service department at the Audi, BMW and Mercedes dealerships are brilliantly lit and hospital surgical suite clean (or so it seems). But the Hyundai service bays, while probably competent don't look like places I'd want to walk in/on in my Cole-Haan's.

    The whole "Genesis as a brand" vibe, currently, needs a refresh. At least the brand -- naming -- will be undergoing rationalization, à la Audi, BMW, Cadillac and even Infiniti (mostly), etc.

    Now, then, speaking of VW, the new VW stores have very nice service departments and waiting rooms -- perhaps not quite up to BMW or Lexus standards, but close enough for Jazz. Of course we have a Lexus dealer that has a big buck chandelier hanging prominently in the customer area; and, we also have a Chevy dealer with a huge "wall of fire" fireplace in it as well as a sort of mini Chevy museum inside the customer area. Go figure.

    Nevertheless, there is something about the Genesis line that I believe foreshadows a serious threat to the high-zoot Europeans. And, I like that -- keeps them on their toes.

    At this point, though, I agree with those who find the juxtaposition of the Genesis line with the Hyundai line somewhat difficult to swallow.

    Time will tell.
  • sdasda Indian Land, SCPosts: 2,815
    rbirns1 said:

    Still can't fathom the giant mistake by Hyundai in not taking a page from the Lexus/Infiniti/Acura playbook. You cannot sell a true luxury car alongside mainstream cars. If they want to be taken seriously by luxury buyers, they have to establish separate Genesis brand and dealers. Should have done it from the start.

    I think that is one of the issues that Ford has with Lincoln. A lot of Lincoln dealers are included with Ford dealerships and not stand alone. The Ford dealers around here are pretty generic and don't provide that special atmosphere and experience that luxury buyers seek,

    2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech, 2013 Honda Accord EX, 2006 Acura TL w/nav

  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 3,398
    My Jag/LR dealer was going through an upgrade when I purchased the XF. But, as the XF hasn't given me any reason to return to the dealer, I've only been back once for the first, complimentary service about a year ago. Man, I'm not getting my $ worth, in terms of free food offered at the dealer!

    '13 Jaguar XF, possibly my favorite of all the cars I've owned. But, my '09 Jag XK was a beauty, as was my '05 Acura TL, '88 Acura Integra, '84 Mitsubishi Mirage Turbo & '78 VW Scirocco (my first!). And, of course, the '92 Nissan Sentra SE-R and '95 Saab 900s I bought for the ex... Ok, I like a lot of the cars in my life.

  • graphicguygraphicguy Edmunds Poster EmeritusPosts: 11,504
    sda said:

    rbirns1 said:

    Still can't fathom the giant mistake by Hyundai in not taking a page from the Lexus/Infiniti/Acura playbook. You cannot sell a true luxury car alongside mainstream cars. If they want to be taken seriously by luxury buyers, they have to establish separate Genesis brand and dealers. Should have done it from the start.

    I think that is one of the issues that Ford has with Lincoln. A lot of Lincoln dealers are included with Ford dealerships and not stand alone. The Ford dealers around here are pretty generic and don't provide that special atmosphere and experience that luxury buyers seek,
    Around here, they forced the Lincoln dealers to become standalone several years ago. Plus, they closed some, too. So, maybe closing some of their stores allowed the stand alones to harvest more customers and be able to make it on their own.

    laurasdada.....Jag store near my 'burg has a beautiful dealership. Probably as impressive as any luxo dealer in the city, including Porsche.
    2018 Acura TLX 3.5 SH AWD A-SPEC
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 10,918
    Crossed 35K miles in the S4 and it still hasn't given me a good reason to go to the dealer for warranty service.
    '16 Audi TTS quattro 2.0T, '15 Audi A4 quattro 2.0T, '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6T
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    A reporter is looking to get in touch with car owners who are waiting for replacement parts, etc. for their faulty Takata air bags. If you're an affected owner and you'd like to help, please reach out to [email protected] by no later than Monday, November 9, 2015.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    that's an *enormously* expensive enterprise.
    rbirns1 said:

    Still can't fathom the giant mistake by Hyundai in not taking a page from the Lexus/Infiniti/Acura playbook. You cannot sell a true luxury car alongside mainstream cars. If they want to be taken seriously by luxury buyers, they have to establish separate Genesis brand and dealers. Should have done it from the start.

  • andres3 said:

    Crossed 35K miles in the S4 and it still hasn't given me a good reason to go to the dealer for warranty service.

    Same here -- the only thing, other than mntce, we've done is replace the OEM Grand Touring tires at 30K miles.

    This one may finally dethrone my all-time fave Audi, my 1995 S6.

    It [the 2014 S4] has already zipped past my 1997 A8 as a far better performing (and luxurious) car.

  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,661
    edited November 2015
    Oil change costs may be headed for steep drop

    Motor-oil maker Castrol, a division of BP, recently claimed its technicians have achieved a breakthrough in engine-lubrication design that makes it easy to change the oil in a vehicle in as little as 90 seconds.
    http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2015/11/07/oil-change-costs-quick-lube-castrol-nexcel/74615512/

    Regarding oil change intervals:
    "Improvements in the quality and durability of modern oil have removed the need to change it at 3,000-mile intervals," Kelley Blue Book analyst Karl Brauer said in an email. "Consumers are wasting their time and money if they change oil with less than 5,000 miles on it."

    Kelley Blue Book analyst Rebecca Lindland said "engine technology has evolved so the engine runs cleaner and oil last longer, allowing for more miles between changes."

    Many vehicles can travel 5,000, 7,000, 10,000 or 15,000 miles before needing an oil change, according to the California Department of Resources Recycling and Recovery. To be sure, however, AAA recommends checking your oil level once a month to ensure smooth operation.

    Drivers should check their owner's manuals to see when the manufacturer recommends getting an oil change. Many vehicles from the 2000 model year and newer can be checked here: /www.calrecycle.ca.gov/UsedOil/OilChange/FindInterval/.
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 8,863
    I had read about that new system from Castrol on another forum. It's a great idea but it will require the commitment from an automaker in order to get it started. Who will be the first?
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 32,982
    interesting. but probably not as great as it may seem. First of all, hard to see it being cheaper overall, since you still have to pay for the oil, and the contraption.

    plus, to get a 90 second change, you are giving up key parts of the process. That is, inspecting the underside of the car, and checking all the other fluids, air filter, etc. That is the biggest part of the infrequent service, which tends to be generically referred to as an "oil change".

    heck, the changing the oil part of it probably only takes 5 minutes or less. Drive over the pit, pop the hood, remove filter, put on new filter, put in oil, drive away. Oh, remember to close hood!

    does look like a slick system. I assume the filter is all built in (but can you top up the oil level in it?). Could also have advantages in packaging, if it works like a dry sump so no oil pan needed? Would have to see a better description of it.

    but purely in terms of changing the oil, I still want every thing else checked at the same time. I can spare the 1/2-1.0 hours once a year!

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,343
    edited November 2015
    Our experience with Acura, Audi, BMW and Infiniti over the past decade+ is that the oil change includes an inspection, report and other fluids top off; also included is a wash and vacuum. Tire pressure, too, is checked and set and sometimes tire rotation is part of the deal.

    We drop the car off at 6PM, pick up the loaner and come back the next day at 6PM and pick up the car; conversely, if you don't want that level of involvement, you can opt for the dealer to come to you, pick up the car, leave a loaner and return later with your car, all services accomplished.

    90 second oil changes seem like something you might want on your car once the od shows in excess of 50,000 miles -- MAYBE.. My opinion is that I want to visit the dealer for the above noted services even after the warranty has expired.

    Of course, THIS TIME, my grand plan (?) is to "CPO" my own car (at the dealership) which will extend the factory warranty to 100,000 miles. This "experiment" also includes buying two "service packs" which will take the factory mntce program to 85,000 miles.

    My wife's 2014 SQ5 just hit 49,900 miles -- and we're going to "run naked" on this one -- thinking we'll trade it in sometime shortly after it crosses 90,000 miles, since there seems to be a huge resale drop in value at about 100K miles.

    This is all new territory for us, since her SQ5 is the first car we've owned since 1977.

    I'll let you know how this works out in a couple of years.
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 8,863
    stickguy said:

    interesting. but probably not as great as it may seem. First of all, hard to see it being cheaper overall, since you still have to pay for the oil, and the contraption.

    plus, to get a 90 second change, you are giving up key parts of the process. That is, inspecting the underside of the car, and checking all the other fluids, air filter, etc. That is the biggest part of the infrequent service, which tends to be generically referred to as an "oil change".

    heck, the changing the oil part of it probably only takes 5 minutes or less. Drive over the pit, pop the hood, remove filter, put on new filter, put in oil, drive away. Oh, remember to close hood!

    does look like a slick system. I assume the filter is all built in (but can you top up the oil level in it?). Could also have advantages in packaging, if it works like a dry sump so no oil pan needed? Would have to see a better description of it.

    but purely in terms of changing the oil, I still want every thing else checked at the same time. I can spare the 1/2-1.0 hours once a year!

    Correct. Dry sump and the oil filter is integrated. As for the underside inspections, that can still be done as part of a service.

    A major benefit is the ability to recycle the system. The used units and the oil are returned to Castrol and they in turn would ensure the oil and the components are disposed of in an environmentally friendly manner. Of course, Castrol has a business angle as well. Since they own the patent, any vehicle outfitted with Nexcell would have to use this cartridge.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,490
    Hey, they could also sell a follow-up oil analysis!
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 32,982
    that unit looks like it takes up a lot of space. Seemed to be as big as a battery. that is going to be a tough sell. Sure, they free up room at the bottom of the engine, but that won't help with packaging under the hood! Unless they put it on top of the engine, like the old Subaru's that had the spare tire there.

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 5,501
    Hyundai just announced a new upscale brand, Genesis. They say something like 4 or 5 models will be introduced. Interesting. Probably not right away, but if the brand sticks, I'm sure thy'l bring one to ELLPS, it's going to be interesting how it will score.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • flightnurseflightnurse Valley of HellPosts: 2,178
    Michaell said:


    Exactly.

    And, VW already has a luxury brand - Audi. Still don't understand what they were thinking bringing that to the US. Or anywhere, for that matter.

    It was simple, VW wanted to let buyers know that their cars are just as good as those other premium brands. Look at their product back then, the passt was really high end as far as fit and finish, and materials used, but it also was more expensive then the Camry's and Accords too. But we know that the upscale of VW failed and the bean counters got a hold of the cars, the new passt is nice, but no where as nice as the previous gen. The Golf feels upscale and some of the materials used is nicer then what one would get in Sentra or Corrola but those cars have more standard equipment then the Golf.

    BTW, I wonder how many "joe" buying public knows that VW, Audi and Porsche are all owned by the same company? When we were looking for a SUV, we looked at the Touareg TDI, the salesman didn't mention that the Audi Q7 and Touareg were the same SUV.
  • flightnurseflightnurse Valley of HellPosts: 2,178
    rbirns1 said:

    Still can't fathom the giant mistake by Hyundai in not taking a page from the Lexus/Infiniti/Acura playbook. You cannot sell a true luxury car alongside mainstream cars. If they want to be taken seriously by luxury buyers, they have to establish separate Genesis brand and dealers. Should have done it from the start.

    Rick would get calls from the Hyundai deal to come and trade in his Genesis and the salesman would give him the big pitch about how Hyundai has made strides in quality and refinement. On one of his secret shopping assignment we went to a Kia dealer to look at the new (then) Cadenza, we both liked the car, it was room, the list of standard equipment was extensive and the price (base) was right in the middle of the V6 Honda Accord line.Talking with the salesman we asked about the K900, he laughed and told us that each Kia dealer was getting 1, and that is it. But of course some dealers didn't sell it and did a dealer trade to move it off the lot, the car was more of an exercise in, "look what we can do, and showcase what Kia could be." When it comes to Hyundai and the Genises and Equus I think you are going to see Hyundai move up scale with that brand. Both cars are bargains, they are reliable, and really a good bang for the buck, it has taken Hyundai years to be able to sell cars like those here, and yes, Virginia they really do sell Equus. I'm thinking the accents cars are going away, and left for Kia to sell.
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 8,863
    stickguy said:

    that unit looks like it takes up a lot of space. Seemed to be as big as a battery. that is going to be a tough sell. Sure, they free up room at the bottom of the engine, but that won't help with packaging under the hood! Unless they put it on top of the engine, like the old Subaru's that had the spare tire there.

    If the car is designed with it in mind, the space would be made. I just opened the hood of my new Passat after owning it two days and there is a giant space available for something like it.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,343
    edited November 2015

    Michaell said:


    Exactly.

    And, VW already has a luxury brand - Audi. Still don't understand what they were thinking bringing that to the US. Or anywhere, for that matter.

    It was simple, VW wanted to let buyers know that their cars are just as good as those other premium brands. Look at their product back then, the passt was really high end as far as fit and finish, and materials used, but it also was more expensive then the Camry's and Accords too. But we know that the upscale of VW failed and the bean counters got a hold of the cars, the new passt is nice, but no where as nice as the previous gen. The Golf feels upscale and some of the materials used is nicer then what one would get in Sentra or Corrola but those cars have more standard equipment then the Golf.

    BTW, I wonder how many "joe" buying public knows that VW, Audi and Porsche are all owned by the same company? When we were looking for a SUV, we looked at the Touareg TDI, the salesman didn't mention that the Audi Q7 and Touareg were the same SUV.
    Wellllll . . . the platform underpinning the Cayenne, Q7 and Touareg are shared. The new Macaan shares about 1/3 of its foundation, so to speak, with the SQ5, but each company puts it own completely different finishing touches on their versions.

    I have a great deal of fondness for the VW Touareg, but few would think it was same SUV as the Cayenne.

    The various brands do much to differentiate their offspring from the donor chassis. Audi and Porsche use different transmissions, engines, etc. VW, no matter how high up the chain it goes isn't the same SUV (as the others) any more than the Passat is, er, an A6, etc.

  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 10,918
    My blasted S4 has a leaky windshield washer fluid tank just discovered at 37,000 miles. Begin the Audi bashing here......
    '16 Audi TTS quattro 2.0T, '15 Audi A4 quattro 2.0T, '16 Kia Optima LX 1.6T
  • At least the fluid tank will be replaced under warranty. Things happen. Doesn't sound like this rises to the level of bashing.

    I could be wrong.
  • sweendogysweendogy Left lanePosts: 1,307
    No Audi bashing here yet... 27k miles, $300 oil change 5k miles ago my only real grip. I get over 20 mpg in the city close to 30 on the highway would be a big deal if gas was $4 a gallon but still outstanding nonetheless givin this pup is pulling me at good speed most on ramps. Went 10 miles the last Sunday in 9 minutes including city driving - very proud of that given city I live in. Winter tires and rims now on the experience not as fun (or stylish) but I will be laughing at f150 owners once we get a decent snow storm- like we did every week last year.
  • flightnurseflightnurse Valley of HellPosts: 2,178
    So the big day finally arrived, 10 weeks after dropping it off in Pairs, Ricks car arrived at the dealership.



    We drove slightly under 2K miles on our trip.



    Windows got tinted, 35% all around.




  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,661
    Enjoy and have a blessed Thanksgiving to all!
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 32,982
    pretty car. love the colors.

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • graphicguygraphicguy Edmunds Poster EmeritusPosts: 11,504
    FN....very cool! Glad you finally got it home.
    2018 Acura TLX 3.5 SH AWD A-SPEC
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