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Ferrari-the Ultimate classic (Ferrari Lovefest Topic)



  • tsaupe1tsaupe1 Posts: 166
    For all northeast Tifosi, Tutto Italiano, Italian car day at the Lars Anderson Museum of Transportation is Sunday, May 22nd this year. Always a good time and lots of interesting Italian cars to see. Hope to see some of you there!
  • ClairesClaires Chicago areaPosts: 1,222


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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 62,379
    Hi, I'm not Hosting here, just visiting!

    Both great cars. The 328 will cost you a lot more to drive....figure as a rule of thumb $1 per mile. Are you prepared to pay that? If not, then don't buy it. Yep, that's right---10,000 miles could cost you $10,000. Not EVERY year perhaps, but averaged out that's what it'll be.

    The 993 is, IMO a much better car than the 996 engine-wise. I have little confidence in the durability of the 996 engine, having finally seen a couple of them taken apart.

    The 993 will run forever, you can use it every day, it is not fussy in the least and won't cost you $1 per mile. The Ferrari will give you a unique driving experience---you will have some wonderful happy days in a 328 and you will have a few very unhappy days in a 328.

    If you go for the Ferrari, buy the very best car you can afford, with all services performed. Many sellers dump them right at 30K when the big service is due, ka-ching, that's at least $3K.

    Also, before you buy the 328, line up a good Ferrari shop and listen to what they have to say. They should perform a pre-sale check and you can use that checkup to bargain your price to some extent.

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  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    I happen to have a good friend with a pristine 1986 Ferrari 328 GTS (red exterior / black interior). Although he is not actively interested in selling, he has offered that I could buy it at any time. I came pretty close back in 2001, but ended up buying a new Honda S2000 instead, which I subsequently sold last spring.

    There is no denying that the 328 is a unique driving experience. I've probably put about 1,500 miles on my friend's over the years. However, it is like the saying goes "the only thing better than owning a boat is having a friend who owns one". He has it serviced by an independent mechanic that keeps it running at a cost of about $3,000 per year for 3,000 +/- miles (almost exactly what the Host estimated). I think budgeting anything less is a bit of a risk.

    I am now considering re-entering the sports car market. The 328 is tempting. I am on the list for a 2006 911(997) S convertible . The earliest delivery date is likely to be October+. While my friend would sell me the 328 at a fraction of the cost of the new 911, the 911 can fit my wife and daughters for a weekend getaway and won't require service for the first 2 years or 20,000 miles. I suspect with the 911, I would put 7,000 - 10,000 miles per year on it, since it is a fairly comfortable ride. The 328, on the other hand, would probably do more sitting than driving.

    Let us know what you decide.
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 19,853

    2000 BMW 528i, 2001 BMW 330CiC

  • tsaupe1tsaupe1 Posts: 166
    You know, I've always liked the twin headlight 330s. I know, I know, I seem to have a penchant for ugly ducklings and poor relations, but if the right car came along, I'd seriously consider one. Now with the NY times article touting their rarity, watch the price jump. On a serious note, it seems the plus twos are starting to be better appreciated. I wonder why? Enzo himself always had a soft spot for them, too bad so many have disappeared through neglect and as donor cars for questionable rebodies and conversions. If you want a classic twelve at an affordable price, you couldn't do much better than a 330 or 250 GTE.
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 19,853
    As you know I totally agree and I've long had a soft spot for those two early 2+2s,
    back seat or not, they're Ferraris from the Boranni wires up.

    2000 BMW 528i, 2001 BMW 330CiC

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 62,379
    Well you could buy a Jaguar V12 coupe and take the $45,000 extra you didn't spend on a 250 GTE and go around the world a couple times. Not that you'd have a car any less of a hassle to keep running.....

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  • tsaupe1tsaupe1 Posts: 166
    Just a friendly reminder for those of you in the New England area. the Italian Car day, Tutto Italiano,is Sunday, May 22. It's held at the Museum of Transportation in Lars Anderson Park, Brookline Ma. They're expecting a big turnout this year after the exposure they got on the "My Classic Car" tv show. Last year there were nearly 80 Ferraris, nearly as many Alfas and quite a few Lamborghinis and Maseratis. Actually my heart skipped a beat over a fabulous gold Maserati Ghibli. I had a nice talk with the owner, found out the car was for sale and was immediately dragged off by my wife. Anyway, hope to see some of you there, look for the Nero Metallico 328.

  • tsaupe1tsaupe1 Posts: 166
    I got home tonight to find an email from Ferrari announcing a new prototype. It looks very much like the Enzo. Anyway, here is the email info:

    We are pleased to bring clients news of yet another world première - the new FXX prototype. Designed to be the most advanced GT ever created at Maranello, it is the maximum expression in Ferrari's expertise in developing special limited-series sports cars using a concentration of race-derived technology.

    Powered by a 6,262 cc V12 engine producing over 800 hp at 8,500 rpm, the FXX reaches new levels of performance. Wind tunnel development has resulted in a shape that produces 40% higher downforce than ever achieved before, while the adoption of F1 gearbox strategies has enabled Ferrari's engineers to reduce gearchange times to less than 100 milliseconds virtually the same as a single-seater! In addition the FXX is equipped with a highly advanced telemetry system that monitors no fewer than 39 vehicle dynamics parameters in real time.

    I'm sure there are pics somewhere on the net.

    FYI, folks in the Northeast, Concorso Ferrari is this weekend, Sunday actually, at the State House in Hartford CT.

  • Does anybody know that the markup for a F430 coupe is over 50K and for a F430 Spider is as high as 150K over MSRP!!!
    I am a loyal Ferrari enthusiast and have always wanted to own one. So far my favorites are the F355 and F360, Both of them are truely beautiful and affordable compare to the extreme levels like Enzo or F50,.When the F360 just came out back in 99, the dealers put markup on those cars as high as 100k over msrp, but now its 2005, the F430 is already out on the market. So you can own an used F360 with low milege around the MSRP. But when i heard about the markup on those F430, i really think we should have a law to Ban markups on cars. The Ferrari company did not make cars to make their authorized dealers to overcharge the customers and making the car a merchandise for people to trade around to make money with. I just saw on ebay last week that a person who is selling his spot of a F430 Spider for november delivery, the bidding amount is already 130K and the reserve is still Not Met. The surprising thing is that there are actually alot of people bidding on it. If you add up the total amount, you will end up paying around 400K for a F430 Spider when the MSRP is only 200K.
    Personally, I'd rather pay 200K for a used F360 Spider than pay double for a F430 spider. I think alot of people on this forum can actually afford a Ferrari but will not be willing to pay double for the car unless you are really loaded with lottery money. Its just not a smart thing to do.
  • kscctsksccts Posts: 140
    "i really think we should have a law to Ban markups on cars"

    Oh, grow up! If you don't like the price, don't buy it. That's how the free market works. Yeesh! :shades:
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 19,853
    complaining about the markup on Ferraris is a bit like complaing about being too warm in a fur coat. :cry:

    I'm soory you can't afford one but I'm even sorrier I can't :sick:

    2000 BMW 528i, 2001 BMW 330CiC

  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Ferrari of Washington indicated to me that they do not mark up their cars, under the "normal" ordering process for a Ferrari 430. Unfortunately, the "normal" wait now exceeds 2-4+ years, depending upon the model (coupe vs. spider; F1 vs. 6-speed).

    What does often happen, however, is that the original purchaser backs out or tries to flip their contract (which FoW does not permit). At that point, it's a free market and FoW will mark up the car to whatever they can get. I was told I could wait 3+/- years for a 430 Spider at MSRP or take a yellow 6-speed that was coming in that had just become available for $75k over MSRP.

    FWIW, the 430 is an enormous performance improvement over the 360. That from a friend of mine with a 2001 360 coupe that is trading up to a 430 spider. His wait is down to 9-12 months, thanks to his past purchase.

    Personally, while it was fun to fantasize for awhile, I can't justify either a used 360 or a new 430. They are beatiful cars, but not meant to be driven much. But my brief consideration of a 430 has helped the $100k price tag on a new 911(997) S Cabriolet seem relatively reasonable. Especially given that it matches or beats the 360 in performance, can carry my daughters in the back seat and goes 2 years or 20,000 miles before the first service. Downright cheap by comparison, wouldn't you say??
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Are you sure the Carrera S Cabrio can even match a F430? I haven't seen anywhere that the 997 911S comes close to the F430 in performance??

  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    I agree, the 911S does not match the 490 hp Ferrari 430. (The 430's measured performance is actually closer to the Enzo than it is to the 360.)

    What I claimed was that the new 997 model 911S appears to be neck and neck with the outgoing 400hp Ferrari 360. According to Porsche's published performance stats, the new 911 / 911S do not appear that much faster than the old 996 models they replace. But from the independent tests I've seen, the 911S comes in at anywhere from 3.8 to 4.3 in 0-60 times which isn't far off the 996 911 Turbo and Ferrari 360. And everyone that I have spoken with confirms that the new 997 911 - especially the S model - is an impressive improvement in every way, performance, interior quality, daily driveability, etc.

    All of this performance is somewhat meaningless, given that my average 0-60 time with my daughters in the back seat would be about 30 seconds. And it's the back seat in the 911 that has me considering spending an extra $65,000 over the cost of another Honda S2000. I miss the days when I could squeeze both of them in the front passenger seat of the S2000 for a 1/2 mile drive to school at 10 mph.
  • xyzzyxyzzy Posts: 1
    The 328 from what I have heard is a bullet proof car. Keep the 15,000 & 30,000 mile maintenance checkups and you should be fine. I have seen many with 70,000 - 80,000 miles on them.

    Be careful on eBay though. This turned out to be a very costly lesson for me. I purchased a '86 328 from Kessler Auto Group in Miami and did not receive the car as advertised. On 2nd day, car's clutch went and engine blew oil everywhere.

    My costly advice, have an independent mechanic look over car before final purchase. In hind sight, it would have been well worth a few hundred dollars.
  • tsaupe1tsaupe1 Posts: 166
    Sorry to hear about your misfortune. What recourse do you have since you said the car was not as advertised? You should always get a Pre Purchase Inspection on any Ferrari. A little money up front can save you a lot of money later. Good luck with repairs, they really are great cars.
  • billymaybillymay Posts: 59
    Having owned a 911 and driven a Ferrari, I don't think the choice comes down to performance. A Porsche is a practical but slightly naughty sports car, that tells everyone you can go damned fast and have disposable income. A Ferrari is a rolling lust object, an awe-inspiring bit of celebrity that sounds like an angry race car on the street.

    A Porsche 997 is the next act in a legendary engineering story. A Ferrari is Cameron Diaz showing up naked at your door.

    No doubt a 997 is a fine car, better built and possibly better engineered. I'm sure you'll like it, as much as I liked my 993. But don't kid yourself. You're either getting a Ferrari, or you're getting something else.
  • billymaybillymay Posts: 59
    Thanks for the reply! Yes, I plan to avoid eBay for many reasons, one of which is that I want to inspect the car personally, and also get a PPI on it.

    BTW, I think I saw your post on f-chat. I hope that clutch and oil leak issue gets sorted out.

    I'm probably going to ante up and pay the dealer premium, for the peace of mind that comes with a car that's been gone over and has a 30-day limited warranty on it. It takes a while to find the right car, but I will.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    ..I think you may be drooling too much over you lust for Cameron Diaz.

    But don't kid yourself! A 1987+/- 328 isn't Cameron Diaz. At least not a fresh one. It's a high maintenance date that has been passed around for 18 years. Hopefully a good inspection can help you avoid a mechanically transmitted disease. ;)

    Seriously, I won't dispute that Ferrari has a head turning quotient that is in a league of its own. And I still think the 328 is a heck of a good looking car. But having a friend that owns one and having seen how much time and money he puts into mainting it and his small fleet of other exotics and classics, I have decided that's not for me. I have too many other time and family priorities. Perhaps when I'm retired and get sick of golf, having a 15-20+ year old Ferrari to putz around with would be interesting.

    If you decide to go that route, you have my best wishes. I really enjoy seeing the old Ferrari's finding a good home and occasionally adorning our streets with their flashing presence.
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 19,853
    Where are all the Tifosi?

    -Motor Trend has launched a new publication, Motor Trend Classic. It's premiere issue-Sept. 2005 features "The 10 Best Ferraris" as named by a panel of about two dozen experts including Luca diMotezemolo, Mario Andretti, Dan Gurney and others.

    The list, restricted to street-legal cars, is about what you'd expect it to be all the usual suspects are included with a one or two exceptions, check it out.

    Sorry I can't post a link it's not on their website.

    2000 BMW 528i, 2001 BMW 330CiC

  • xkssxkss Posts: 722
    I don't think the Enzo will be a classic Ferrari or even a classic at all. I've seen a few in person and they are just ugly. The Enzo-derived Maserati MC12 looks far better and I've seen the race version of the MC12 at a recent American Le Mans Series race.
  • tsaupe1tsaupe1 Posts: 166
    I think it's too early to judge the Enzo on looks alone. Tastes change. However, as far as performance is concerned, it's a classic, IMHO. I was surprised to see that the Lusso didn't make the top ten, although it was "first alternate." I was parked next to one at a show the other day, actually between a Lusso and a 512 BB, and I couldn't get over how beautiful the Lusso was. the lines and proportions are just so right. Its weight keeps it from having the SWBs performance, but it's no slouch.

    I still think the 275 GTB4 is Pininfarina's best ferrari though.

    Anyone have an opinion on the FXX? What's the next step after the first 20 are sorted by their "test" drivers? I'm rather bummed that I wasn't asked to apply for ownership. Oh well, It probably is horribly impractical and gets lousy gas mileage!
  • tsaupe1tsaupe1 Posts: 166
    I've heard a lot of rumors, some from very reliable sources, saying that Ferrari is seriously thinking of re-introducing the Dino line with a Mid engine 6. While trying to avoid the tiresome "was the Dino a real Ferrari?" debate (drive one and then tell me it's a Fiat), how does everyone feel about an entry level Ferrari? What should an "entry level" Ferrari cost? Would the introduction of a Dino hurt the marque's image? Now that they've gotten rid of Maserati, do they need another line? Has anyone seen so much as an artist's conception?
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 19,853
    I did see a drawing of the new "Dino" in a magazine (R&T?) it looked alright but certainly lacked the fluid beauty of the earlier Dinos. I personally have no problem with an "entry-level" Ferrari so long as it's done right. I hope it's a real sports car, as opposed to an ersatz big Ferrari.

    I was surprised they left the glorious Lusso off the MT-Classic list as well. It seems to me the 250 Series 1 Cabrio got on the list mostly for it's looks and I don't think any other Ferrari trumps the 250 Lusso for looks. As for performance, well, there were several Lussos that were raced and there's plenty of ways to "hop up" the 3.0 V12.

    2000 BMW 528i, 2001 BMW 330CiC

  • tsaupe1tsaupe1 Posts: 166
    I've always considered the Dino one of the most beautiful automobiles ever made and I'm glad to hear that Ferrari (or Pininfarina) is not trying to duplicate it in any way. Every retro looking design I've seen just doesn't seem to work

    I was unaware of Lussos being raced. Do you have any more info on that?

    We lost use of the 328 for a few weeks this summer due to a variety of 17 year old car problems which all struck at the same time. Vacuum hoses, an O2 sensor and finally a water pump, which failed while they were warming up the car for the inspection sticker, meant that we were Ferrari less for two weeks of great weather. So we're hoping for one of those lovely, long, New England Autumns so that we can make up for it!
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 19,853
    I'll have to rumage around in my Ferrari literature for info on racing 250 GT Lussos.

    Have you seen the movie biography of Ferrari called (appropriately) Enzo Ferrari?
    It's a halfway decent movie, but a little quick to steal plot devices from Citizen Kane.

    2000 BMW 528i, 2001 BMW 330CiC

  • tsaupe1tsaupe1 Posts: 166
    I've heard about it but haven't seen it yet. Where did you find a copy? Of course, both Kane (and his real life counterpart) and Ferrari were larger than life, so I guess I could forgive the theft. This is the one made originally for Italian TV or something, isn't it?
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 19,853
    Apparently it was made for Italian TV, I rented it from Netflix

    2000 BMW 528i, 2001 BMW 330CiC

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