Nissan Maxima v. Mazda Millenia
I started this thread as an outlet for the people who come to the Millenia board wanting to compare the virtues, or lack thereof, of the Nissan Maxima as compared to the Mazda Millenia.
Please feel free to exercise your opinions on this comparison here as opposed to the MM discussion.
Thanks
Please feel free to exercise your opinions on this comparison here as opposed to the MM discussion.
Thanks
0
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
1. Millenia has an independant suspension. the max does not....they did in the past but they de-contented the max to a semi independant suspension which is sub par compared to the mazda multlink.
2. traction control is std on the 'S' and avail with the four seasons pkg. on the 'P' millenia. The max does not offer this feature on the GXE model and it is an extra cost option on all other models
3. Moonroof is standard on all Mil...optional on all models of the Max.
4. Leather is standard on the Mil...not even offered on the GXE max and optional on SE max.
5. both Millenia offer an 8 way power seat for both driver and passenger, standard. Max only offers a less versital 4 way pwr pass. seat. on GLE model...again not avail on GXE model and optional on SE.
6. both model Millenia's come with a power tilt steering wheel with memory. Max has a manual tilt, like an sentra.
7. both model millenia's have automatic climate control...not avail on Max unless you buy top of line GLE...optional on SE...GXE is out of luck again.
8. side air bags are standard on both millenia's...only offered on GLE max std....if your in the SE its an option and GXE drivers are killed in a side crash. no side bags.
9. Millenia has a longer bumper to bumper warranty.
10. Millenia offers free roadside assitance
11. all mazda buyers are entitled to a loaner car for warranty work...you buy a maxima you walk when your car is in for service.
give me a few minutes and I will come up with some more.
12.
An X indicates what I consider an advantage. If both have an X, I feel they are about equal in that catagory.
Catagory -------------- Maxima ------- Millenia
Horsepower -------------- X
Styling ---------------------------------- XXXXXXXX
Quality of materials ----------------------- X
Quality of assembly ----------------------- X
Quality of paint ----------------------------- X
Paint Application -------------------------- X
Ride Quality -------------------------------- X
Noise Intrusion ---------------------------- X
Rear Suspension -------------------------- X
Repair History ----------- X ---------------- X
Standard Features ------------------------- X
Handling ------------------ X ---------------- X
Real World Price --------------------------- X
Depreciation ------------ 1/2x
=========================================
I copied this over from the Millenia thread to help get this one going. Part of it duplicates the above post by audia8q.
For me this was a no-brainer, I wanted something attractive and or appealing to the eye, which as we ALL know, the Maxima is NOT - leaving me with a 2000 ME S...... still no regrets when I see all the Max's driving around day in and day out!!
http://auto.consumerguide.com/auto/new/reviews/full/index.cfm/id/20886.htm#highlights
"Though little changed since introduction and never that popular, Mazda's U.S. flagship sedan some managed higher sales in 2001, up a healthy 35.3 percent year-over-year through the third quarter. Even so, industry informants say Millenia is doomed. Why? One reason is a design based partly on Mazda's last-generation 626, leaving Millenia an uneconomic manufacturing "orphan" within Mazda and parent Ford Motor Company. More urgently, Ford needs to slash expenses to pull out of a big sales and earnings slump, and that makes the misfit Millenia an obvious candidate for the axe. Does this mean Mazda will get out of the near-luxury market altogether? Sure looks that way to us."
Stay tune for the 6 o'clock news.
Tony,
That does not change the ability to compare the Millenia to the Maxima, which is also a several year old design. The Millenia is equal to or superior to the Maxima in every way except engine power.
Thanks for your input.
FYI...The current 5th Generation Maxima was born in 2000, so it's not that old and it is totally different than the 4th Gen Maxima. A 6th Generation Maxima will be here in 2004 and will share the Altima platform.
For the 2001 model, Mazda also added about 30% more rigidity to the Millenia chassis, and the interior was completely redone.
The Maxima also has used the same drivetrain for years, except for dropping the independent rear suspension for a beam axle in 1999, and tweaking the engine to add HP.
Millenia still has a fully independent rear suspension, but Mazda has not entered the HP war with the 2.5L V-6. That is being done with the new Mazda6, and RX8.
Automakers frequently say "all new" when it is not quite true.
Knowing that this would be the last year model for this car, why would you still want to buy it?
Don't even think about resale value, because it would even be worse because there is no newer Milenia model to spark interest or passion in the car for future buyer in the Used car market.
Ok, so you may say that well, "I plan to keep my car for many years, so resale value means nothing to me" Well, I say think about availability of the parts when the Milenia gets old and you need new parts, water pump, alternator, etc... How easy would it be for you to obtain that part?
Traditionally, Nissan is more reliable than Mazda products, so if you plan to keep it for a long time, Nissan should be your obvious choice.
I will not go into details about performance/handling stats because we all know the outcome will favor the Maxima.
Tony,
2 - To the ones of us planning to keep our cars in excess of 4 years, the difference in depreciation is more than offset by the huge price advantage of buying a Millenia instead of a Maxima. Also, if all I were interested in was the resale value, I would not buy a Maxima. There are other cars on the market that hold value better.
3 - Parts, including performance parts will be no more of a problem to obtain than any other out of production model. The exact same engine was used in the Ford Probe (it is a Mazda engine, not Ford), and parts are readily available. It is also the V-6 used in the Mazda 626. It will not be an orphan.
4 - ("Traditionally, Nissan is more reliable than Mazda products") There is that fairy tale again.
Here are two links to disprove that: Be fair and click on the red and white x marks for the Maxima (Millenia has none of these bad marks) to find the truth. Overall, they are both excellent mechanically, but by Carpoint, Millenia holds the advantage.
http://carpoint.msn.com/vip/UsedRelOver/Nissan/Maxima/Used.asp
Click on the yellow and black exclamation points for the Millenia, and you will find the only repetitive problem was a easily and inexpensively repaired spark plug wire problem, only on the '95 and '96 2.5L.
http://carpoint.msn.com/vip/UsedRelOver/Mazda/Millenia/Used.asp
Also read Consumer Reports April issue of any year. Check their charts. The 2002 April issue on page 55 points out that the Millenias repair history has been "OUTSTANDING".
5 - Quote: "I will not go into details about performance/handling stats because we all know the outcome will favor the Maxima."
Maxima excells only in "straight line" acelleration, if you don't count the torque steer of an overpowered front wheel drive car.
Millenia accomplishes it's handling without riding harshly, and with far less road noise. It also has a far more expensive and sophisticated all independent multilink suspension.
The Maxima handles worse?...you gotta be kidding!. The Millenia is a luxury cruiser, the steering is overboosted and the suspension is too soft to be a sport sedan. Beam axle and all, the Maxima will outhandle a Millenia without a flinch.
Let's face it folks, we own Millenias because it is a car that failed and Mazda is literally giving it away. At $28+ it was getting its butt whipped by other luxury brands. I have a Millenia because it was a great deal at $22K, but I would not have given it a second look if it was selling anywhere near MSRP.
Fwatson,
The 5th generation Maxima is longer and wider thant he 4th gen.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The slow sales of Millenia had nothing to do with the desirablilty or quality of the car. It was a complete failure on the part of Mazda to properly advertise and promote this car.
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"it was a great deal at $22K, but I would not have given it a second look if it was selling anywhere near MSRP"
This statement-----"I would not have given it a second look if it was selling anywhere near MSRP"----holds true not only for Millenia, but expecially for the Max on my part. It is simply way overpriced. $28000 to $30000 for a nice engine, and no other advantage is simply out of line.
That said, The same is true for virtually every car sold in this general class of Japanese branded cars. I walked away from Max GXE offered at below dealer invoice, in favor of the Millenia that I feel is a superior car. The bargain prices on the MM also make Camry, Accord etc very poor buys in comparison.
As you stated, the Millenia is a luxury cruiser and the Maxima is not. I agree totally.
"The Millenia is a luxury cruiser, the steering is over boosted and the suspension is too soft to be a sport sedan."
That said, and agreed, the Millenia concedes nothing to the Maxima in terms of sporty styling and handling. Millenia wins hands down. Nissan knows that only way to market a car with a primitive suspension and dangerous torque understeer is to over compensate it's shortcomings with a big engine and label the whole sub par package as being "sporty".
Primitive suspension?...the Maxima uses a twist beam suspension which is NOT primitive. The beam keeps the rear wheels straight while taking turns so body roll while turning is neglible. The Millenia rolls a LOT more under a heavy turn. The only time the twist beam is noticeble is when you hit a bump, instead of each wheel bouncing indepedently the rear wheels bounce together. So unless you are taking your Maxima offroad or have really bad streets you will never know you had a twist beam for a rear suspension.
Dangerous Torque steer?...please, you are reaching here.
Probably a better comparison here would be the MM vs. the Infiniti I35, since they are both considered luxury sedans.
Quote speedracer3, from post #13: "The Millenia is a luxury cruiser, the steering is over boosted and the suspension is too soft to be a sport sedan."
You will notice though that Nissan is bragging up the all independent multilink suspension on the new G35. Guess which car in this discussion is equipped with that type suspension.
"..the Millenia comes off feeling bare bones. Fake wood has replaced real walnut, and the doors slam with the sound of a 1970s Datsun."
"Rear seat lack the legroom, toe space and shoulder width..."
They did give it good marks in the "fun to drive" catagory.
Personnally I enjoy owning a car I can look at day to day and smile, and not have the only thought on my mind being 255hp @ 7000 rpms with an ugly [non-permissible content removed] to boot....IMHO
Also what are you doing using a comparison from 4 years ago?????
All you have to do is go to a Mazda dealer and look inside. It is a highly luxurious and impeccably finished interior. While you are there, close a few doors and listen to the very satisfying thud of a very solidly built vehicle.
As far as interior size is concerned, the styling and design of the rear seat area is very obviously for two occupants, with the possibility for a third if they don't mind the hump in the middle.
And yes, it is fun to drive. Especially after the 2001 chassis stiffening.
Quote: "I paid $33K for a Max and the Millenia is $41K."
I can see you are in Canada, but I suggest you check on rebates anyway. I paid $21680 for my MM"P". That is about $35000 Canadian, depending on exchange rate on a given day. A long way from the $41000 you quote. An "S" would have run me about $37000 Canadian.
$33000 Canadian is agout $19800 US. Sounds like they ar doing some huge discounts on Maxima's up there. Even if that is a GXE.
Anyway, call my silly, but I used Edmunds to compare the Max and MM side-by-side and the MM is *not* by any means superior. It does not have more options than the Maxima, the crash tests averaged out to identical... well, let's let edmunds tell the story:
(actual quotes from the comparisons)
MM: "Never a standout in terms of design"
MM: "Millenia's 170 horsepower is a bit wanting"
MM: "exhibits an excessively floaty ride"
MM: "Mazda considers the Nissan Maxima...to be the Millenia's primary competitors. That's heady company"
MM: "...given the Mazda's age, basic luxury amenities, interior packaging and dearth of performance capability... cannot arrive soon enough"
(those are not compliments, by the way)
Max: "lot of bang for the buck"
Max: "Maxima is more of an entry-level luxury sedan than a family sedan"
Max: "little reason to buy the Maxima's more expensive cousin, the Infiniti I35"
(those are)
Styling isn't worth talking about. The MM looks like my grandmother's car if you ask me, but since it's all opinion, it doesn't matter.
Let's stick to facts. The options are similar, warranty same, crash test... too close to decide. So it comes down to reliability, engine, suspension, and preference, and according to edmunds the MM finished 9th, yes dead last, in the "Luxury Sedan" comparison while the Maxima SE (that's mine!) ended up "most wanted sport sedan under $30k." I also don't mind getting 0 to 60 almost 2 seconds quicker.
Your post is extremely biased, but that is fine, and I also am biased to the Millenia.
Now you might try looking up the Edmunds owner ratings. Millenia owners give their cars an overall 9.3 out of 10. While Maxima owners give theirs 8.6 out of 10.
It has been my experience over 60 years, at least 45 of those as a car nut, that car tests invariably favor the hot rod cars. Living with a car is a different matter, and is reflected in the owner ratings of their own cars.
You have one swinging granny if she is driving anything as stylish as a Millenia.
I wasn't going to comment on the consumer ratings because at 62 I didn't believe the Max had received enough 'opinions' to make it valid. But, it's *WAY* more valid than the 6 the MM has received. I guess what I'm trying to say is...
1. online polls are too biased to be of use. For example, jettamannc put "You HAVE to get one! " but rated it a 5.0. Another gave it a 3 because he thought the warranty period should be longer. I would *never* trust an online opinion....it's always coming from someone with baggage (good or bad).
2. if I were to look at an online opinion, anything less than a few hundred opinions is too few to even consider. The MM only has 6... with 2 more login names I could push that over 9.5 (but I won't). See how easy it is to fudge the system?
3. the guy who put a '1' for 'fun to drive' in the Max needs a kick in the head. I'm having a BLAST and I'm still in the break-in period so I haven't taken it over 3k rpm.
Of course we're all biased so, in the end, enjoy your car. I'm enjoying mine. And if someone says "mine's better because..." then he's got penile issues.
Now, I'm not a Mazda enthusiast by any means, but am simply killing time with my 2000 S before my, (dealer held), RX-8 arrives next year. So I'm curious to know if when that arrives all you Maxima power nuts still going to say the Maxima has it beat b/c it has 5 more ponies (RX-8 supposed: 250hp)???
I keep finding "...supercharged v6 is whiny" and "0-60 in 8.2". Please let me know what the whiny supercharger can do 0-60... and the 16.2 in the 1/4 isn't too impressive either, so post a 1/4 mile time, too. I believe you'd be hard pressed to find a serious Maxima person who believes *any* magazine numbers. Get your RX-8 and take it to the track, or pull up next to one of us at a light a rev a little, then we'll see (just make sure I'm past my 1000 mile break-in!!!).
Until then, we all have penile issues (if that doesn't make sense, see end of post 31).
By the way, "noise intrusion" at the level that's happening in either of these cars isn't high on 90% of people's list of things to worry about. What's the decibel difference between my Max and your MM? If it's off by more than 4 dB I'll be surprised, and that's easily overcome by turning the radio knob one more click. I chose the SE knowing the suspension was going to transfer a little more road noise. I could have bought a GLE with softer suspension and different tires and had less 'noise intrusion' but I'm in the 90% on this one.
Seriously, since this is edmunds there must be some respect for them in their town hall. Read about 2001/2002 MM and Max in their reviews and you'll get the feeling Mazda could stop production of the MM and nobody would notice, while they *love* the Max. Really, read it, then come on back, ya-hear!
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Hmm, you'll have to ask Mazda why they really haven't changed the car in much in 4 years.
fwatson, there is no 'P' here, just the S, and I just checked Mazda's website, it lists and $42.5K, no thanks. My Maxima is an SE an lists at $33900+freight. Leather and sunroof is an extra $3K. I really wouldn't have considered a Millenia since its not available with a manual.
The Millenia was a good mid 90s car. RIP.
This confirms your own statement that you did not even take the time to check out the Millenia. If you had, You would know it is a beautiful and impecably finished car that just did not enter the horsepower war. Other than losing a drag race to the Max, it is in every way as modern mechanically and all other ways as the Max. Unless you are one of those who require a Navigation system. My road maps still work fine.
Read for yourself:
http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/roadtests/spin/45921/article.html
Also, in the original thread in the MM section (before the moderator asked to move it here) someone posted links to reliability... if you compare the 1994 Max to the 1994 MM, you're right, MM wins. But since then it's all green lights for the Max. That's just bad debating skill, baby; you're giving me ammunition *proving* the Max has at least as high and maybe higher quality that the MM.
-We last tested the Millenia S in 1999 and, like most of Ben Affleck's movies, found it to be a forgettable experience.
-"Millenia's suspension manages to ride roughly over pockmarked surfaces and wallow like a Buick over larger bumps and dips." It was almost as if Millenia couldn't decide whether to direct its efforts toward being a luxury or a sport sedan, so it ended up performing competently as neither.
-Our test vehicle's automatic transmission likewise behaved sluggishly; whenever we hit the gas for a spurt of speed, there was a disheartening lag as the tranny struggled with the moral dilemma of whether or not to downshift. While neither the insufficient low-end torque nor the tardy transmission were glaring enough to induce a panic attack when attempting to weave through traffic, they certainly detracted from Millenia S' claim to be a sport sedan.
I hit the gas in my Max and heads snap back. The suspension is excellent, and I've never seen a Ben Afleck (who's he?) movie but I'm assuming that's not what you'd call 'praise.' I know that one was from 1999, but it was prominently placed right up front so I had to throw it in. The rest of the comments are about the 2001.
I own a 2002 Maxima SE and a 2000 Millenia S (ME) Both are great cars. I love the looks of the Mazda, but enjoy driving the Maxima a lot more. This is my 2nd Mazda Millenia S and both times I considered the Maxima, but the horsepower difference at the time did not justify my buying the Maxima. The fun factor now with the increased HP is threefold over the Mazda. Also the 6 speed wieghed heavily on my decision. I gave my wife the Mazda, but now she wants me to sell that and buy her a Nissan Maxima also. If looks with decent power is primary concern then the Millenia S is the way to go. But if the "smile" factor is primary importance the the Nissan Maxima 6 speed is the one.
Buy the way a 2000 Millenia S Millemium Edition (Red) for Sale 60k miles, 100k extended warranty, excelent shape $15,800
Ralph
I guess you'll have to trust I'm not lying. I got 2002 SE 6-speed, limited slip, Bose 6-cd in dash, airbags, heated/electric everything, sunroof, leather...basically every option except Navigation. $26,200 with 6 miles, not 3,000.
I'm not saying it's the "BEST car EVER manufactured" (well, the engine is, http://www.carseverything.com/content/article/1389/, but that's a different story) we're trying to defend against the biased attacks against the Max.
The MM is a good car, I already said that, but is it a better value? NO! For an extra $3,000 you could have at least as good as what you got in most areas, and better in all the rest, brand new. That's an extra $55/month financed at Nissan's 3.9% over 5 years. I could have left off some of the options and been under $25,000 ($33/month over your used MM). So you tell me:
new, bigger, more comfortable, NEW, faster, as reliable, as safe, NEW for less than $2,000, or;
used, smaller, less comfortable, slower...
Basically I'm reading the Edmunds reviews to you. Go read them and *you* decide which someone should buy based on what they wrote. Try to find a negative in the Max review, and try to find more than 5 positives in the MM review.
The Maxima's engine problems were more severe. Maxima also had additional problems with Heating & AC as well as Accessories. The fact they showed up bad after a period of a few years speaks to how well a car holds up as it ages.
Secondly, I have not said nor implied that the Millenia is superior to the Maxima in all ways. They are as I have repeatedly said both very good cars. The fact is though that Millenia has at least as many catagories in which it outperforms the Max as the other way around. I have said before, that I set out to buy a Max, so obviously I do not condider it an inferior car. I do find the Millenia much preferrable for my uses than the Maxima. I value that quiet comfortable ride over a 6.7 second 0 to 60 time for one thing. I have previously listed others.
1) 3,000 miles doesn't qualify as "used" 5,000 and over does...I only bought used so I could dodge the terrible depreciation this car has....still full factory warranty buddy!!!
2) EVERYONE AND THEIR MOTHERS DRIVE A MAXIMA
end of story - and comfort - puhhhleassssse - that's a stretch!! adios
One car (The Maxima) is more performance oriented, the other (Mazda Millenia) more luxury oriented.
Now, if I wanted a Luxury car, the MM would be on my list to look at. It's a very nice design of a car, but it defintely could use a bit more power. Mazda discontinued the MM after this year for reasons of not selling. The Millenia had its time, and now its past, there are alot more cars out there than are cheaper that will smoke the Mazda in all catagories.
The new 2k2 Maxima is a sharp car, and well worth the bang for the buck. 255hp, 6spd even, or auto, more room than the Mazda, and better crash protection. We use to own a Mazda 626, car was dead on power, but it was very reliable. Mazda is known for tranny problems in the history, but they make great engines.
They are quiet as well for sound, but the way they make the windows, allows more wind noise to come in. I still think the Mazda was better on wind noise than the Maxima. The Maxima has a TSB out for wind noise on the back windows. I had this done when I owned a 2k1 Maxima. It helped but it still was noisy at 70mph. I now own a Acura, and this car is dead silent at 70mph.
The Mazda does handle like a boat compared to other cars in its class, but at least it doesn't have the BEAM suspension in the back like the Maxima does. Personally Lexus, Acura, and Infiniti make some of the best cars. Mazda (shall I dare say, FORD), has a lot of catching up to do.
Just as obviously, we all have very different needs, priorities and wishes. Were this not the case, I guess they'd only ever have to make one vehicle to satisfy us all, eh?
There is absolutely no need to be rude or attacking to another member because that member's opinion differs from our own.
Either discuss the differences between these two vehicles in a civil and respectful manner, or withhold your comments altogether.
Thank you.
Pat
Sedans Host
I'm back... I went back to carpoint to check out the issues and click the links. The issue with the Max for 95 and 96 looked the same so I don't know why they're different severities.
Also, using that as a gauge, the Max and MM have THE EXACT SAME rating since `95. Since both Max issues are the same, I'd mark them both as yellow, the same severity as both MM issues... and the Max issues are just as easily fixed as the MM spark plug issue... so you can stop using that as a MM good point.
I agree with a lot of what's been written. They're both good cars. One is more sporty, one is trying to be more luxury. Read the reviews all over (I chose edmunds but other reviewers said similar things - yes for Max, unimpressed for MM).
I take issue that people are claiming the Max is not as reliable - PROVE YOUR POINT, and carpoint doesn't do it. Carpoint proves MY POINT, that they have the same reliability.
Now for the "bang for the buck" issue... again, max wins. I've been thinking about what nevderani said and it doesn't make sense... he waited and bought a used car (6 miles compared to 3,000 - come on man, admit you bought used) and could have paid $2000 more for brand new, more features, bigger, etc (you know my argument). That DOES NOT make it a better value.
Compare apple to apple, I can get a demo 2001 Max with less than 5,000 miles for less than you bought your MM. You got a bargain on the MM, but you didn't get the biggest bang for your buck.
And Pat, seriously, if it was me who was being naughty, please let me know.
If anyone wants to pursue this specific issue, please feel free to email me.
Otherwise, let's go forward with a polite and reasonable comparison of these vehicles.
Thank you.
Pat
Sedans Host
I don't wish to get in trouble with Pat, so I'll try to use the most PC words that I can. One big issue for me in choosing the Millenia over the Maxima (in addition to the mechanical issues I discussed earlier) was sheer appearance. I found the Maxima to be very "unappealing visually".
It appeared one design team did the front end, while another did the back. The results are sort of interesting, but I found it to be way "visually unappealing". I don't take any pleasure in telling someone that the car they own and love is tragically deformed, but to fail to mention the issue out of kindness isn't really fair either. A lot of people are turned off by the sheer appearance of the Maxima, and I'm sure that Nissan would sell many more of them if they weren't so " visually unappealing".
My point is that we ALL are entitled to differing personal reactions - and none of us should be slammed for viewing the situation in our own unique way.
Pat
Sedans Host