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2013 and earlier-Acura MDX Prices Paid and Buying Experience



  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    edited December 2012
    I can make my money grow more than 3.25 percent per year.

    Great, but can you make your money grow at 38.9% per year, because that's what this choice is costing you.

    That $55.66 lower monthly payment saving you $2,338 in monthly payments over 42 months, will cost you $4,329 in lower equity in month 42. You would have to take each $55.66 in monthly payment savings and invest it at a return of 2.78% per month, compounded monthly to end up with the equivalent of the equity you won't have in the MDX. That's a 38.9% annual return.

    Do the math if you don't believe me. First month's $55.66 savings turns into $171.13 in 42 months, second months turns into $166.51 in 41 months..... 41st months savings turns into $57.21 in 1 month. Add them all up and in 42 months, you have exactly $4,329 to offset the equity you don't have in the MDX.

    Frankly, the reason I am belaboring this isn't really to chastise you, but to make the point that, while most people here are intelligent enough to figure out the math, I think a lot DON'T and as a result, make egregious errors in judgement based upon a lack of accurate and thorough analysis. Like on the basis of "I can make more than 3.25% on my money". That sounds simple enough. But doesn't take into account that by increasing your payment a measly $55 per month, you are saving 2.35% in interest rate (3.25 vs. 0.9 difference) on the entire $31,900 loan balance every month.

    Maybe I should set up an Edmund's Auto Loan business. Given the opportunity, I would have offered to pay you $65 per month to take the Acura loan in exchange for you giving me the additional equity you would have had in 42 months. You could have saved another $10 per month/ $420 total and I would have ended up with $4,329 on an investment of $2,757 over 42 months. That's a 28% annual rate of return for me. Heck, make it $75 that I'll pay you. That's still a 19.6% annual return for me. How about next time??
  • vinnynyvinnyny Posts: 774
    Dealers love nothing more than "Payment buyers"! (Except for old people with very fat wallets and presidents who give away "Cash for Clunkers").

    Thank you for doing your analysis--it will certainly help some people who couldn't do the math themselves.
  • I wonder how many people are going to read this and actually be led to believe that you can twist a difference in annual percentage rate on a loan of 2.35 percent into a 28 percent annual rate of return, or 39, or 19 or whatever you spewed.......

    What they won't see and what you haven't told them is that EQUITY has absolutely nothing to do with RETURN ON INVESTMENT. Equity is defined as the difference between what you owe on something and what you get for it, period!

    In this case, the additional equity that I would have achieved after 5 years taking the Acura loan must be offset by the ADDITIONAL PAYMENT I HAD TO MAKE DURING THAT TIME, in this case, about 60 bucks a month or 60 months, or 3600 additional dollars, and you're trying to tell me that this 3600 dollars just appeared out of nowhere in the form of 40 percent interest paid to me???? Are you smoking mushrooms? The equity is offset by the additional payments made plus the interest savings, but the interest savings based on anyone's numbers will never ever exceed 2.35 percent per year. So there you go.........I forewent accelerated equity in exchange for a lower payment which is an offset, not a loss, not a gain......not a MAGICAL 40 percent return on investment......

    Also, to state that dealers LOVE payment buyers, you're correct, but in this case the dealer lost because of this payment buyer, because I financed through my credit union, not through their lender who would have given them a little fee on the backside. Dealer didn't get to sell me any add ons either, no warranties, no credit life, no accident a health, no gap protection, no undercoating or glass etching, NOTHING! payment buyers love that crap.

    Payment buyers also never seem to focus on one thing a time. I do......It's price first, then trade in, then interest rate, then payment, not the other way around. I'm convinced, I got a decent discount on this car, I had lots of equity in my other car (PAID FOR OUT OF MY POCKET IT DIDN'T APPEAR MAGICALLY VERSUS SOME OTHER INTEREST RATE......the equity was created by me! ) and then I created some more equity with a downpayment on this one to arrive at my wife's magic comfortable payment amount which was 489.00 a month, the same as the payment on her last one......

    a 2.35 percent premium paid in annual percentage rate will NEVER morph into the magical "I Failed simple math" numbers that you are spewing

    The return on investment for opting for the other loan would have never ever exceeded 2.35 percent per year and the additional equity created
    by the one year shorter term would have come out of my pocket,
    and that my friend is not return.......that's called the INVESTMENT!

    I owe 32000.00 on a car that listed for 48000.00 2 days ago. I THINK I DID OK!!!!! I didn't buy on payment, I SELECTED a payment for myself and
    was willing to pay the price for that payment.

    As I've said, if someone else wanted to do the .9 percent rate, they
    could certainly do so and their payment would be in the mid 500's
    and yes, the equity would accelerate faster, but it would never accelerate faster without their 60 buck a month additional investment and that is the one thing you missed in your twisted alice in wonderland assessment.

    I hope my illustration of the deal I made prior to all of this financial counseling helps someone else......I won't be posting anything else
    unless Habitat tells me about a new Ponzi scheme that would have
    resulted in my Acura sitting in my garage right now with a free and clear
    title with no investment from me at all LOL

    For those of you wanting to convert a .9 percent annual percentage rate into a 39 percent annual rate of return, check with habitat.....he will send you his pamphlet entitled "Hallucinogenic money advice and what it means to me".
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    edited December 2012
    Listen zulu-warrior, maybe if you spent half the time you did writing the last post, and instead did a little Excel spreadsheet for yourself like I suggested, we wouldn't be having this debate. Let me try to make it as simple as possible. Pick the item below that you don't understand or believe:

    (1) You have a $32,000 loan.
    (2) You chose 3.25% rate for 72 months = $489.75 payment (assumes end of month)
    (3) Acura offered 0.9% for 60 months = $545.62 payment
    (4) Difference in payment = $55.87 per month
    (4) In 42 months you trade, sell or crash the MDX into a tree.
    (5) Your payments were $2,346 less during that time
    (6) Your loan balance at the end of 42 months = $14,094
    (7) Your loan balance under Acura loan would have been = $9,751
    (8) Difference in loan balance is $4,343
    (9) You traded $55.87/month, $2,346 total for a $4,343 higher loan balance in 42 months.
    (10) Your $2,346 "savings" would have to grow by 85% to become $4,343
    (11) That would be a 19.2% annual return if you had full 42 months to invest $2,346. You don't.
    (12) Each $55/month would have to be invested at 38.9% to get to $4,343 in month 42.
    (13) Re-read above slowly if necessary.

    If steps 10-12, an internal rate of return (IRR) analysis, is confusing that's OK. Re-read #9 a few times. And tell me how you think saving $55 per month but then owing $4,343 more in 42 is a financially prudent decision? Or tell me what step above you don't agree with??

    As for "Hallucinogenic money advice and what it means to me", great idea. A couple of chapter themes:

    (1) Putting $100 per month in savings in 1969-1974 when I was a kid from a paper route/grocery store job that covered the first year of MBA school in 1980.
    (2) Paying off student loan to cover second year, ahead of schedule.
    (3) Paying off a 30 year 8% home mortgage loan (taken in 1988) in 13 years by refinancing to a lower 15 year rate and making $300 additional principal payments every month.
    (4) Never having a car loan in my life.
    (5) Keeping most cars for 8-10 years and 100k+ miles so that I never even think about (4).
    (6) Having a responsible daughter that's happy to drive a loan-free 2005 MDX with 116,000 miles, even though it doesn't have the latest do-dads.
    (7) The fun of shopping for a Cayman S, with my checkbook in hand.
    (7) The far greater personal satisfaction of of being able to fund scholarships at my high school and college to honor my modest parents who taught me financial responsibility.

    Oh yeah, I could write a book. But it probably won't have a chapter about "The virtues of trading cars that haven't made it to 20k miles every 3-4 years and taking out 6 year loans at higher rates to assure that you are forever stuck in perennial auto loan debt"

    Seriously, you made a choice that is 100% your prerogative. I'm simply pointing out the math that I think you should have considered doing, beforehand. Your previous post suggests you really didn't get my previous attempt. Perhaps now. Or we can try again in 42 months. Enjoy your new MDX now and I'll enjoy my Cayman S in a few months. And hopefully no hard feelings either way.
  • vinnynyvinnyny Posts: 774
    Sorry if you took offense to my reference to "payment buyers" but my post wasn't directed solely at you. If that had been the case, I would have responded directly to you.

    My intent was to support habitat1's assertion that it's unwise to accept a higher interest rate and a longer term in order to make the monthly payment acceptable. Generally speaking, trading a 2.35% interest premium for an extra 12 months is a bad idea. Less experienced buyers could benefit from habitat's implicit advice that if one can't afford the payment, he is probably better off doing something more constructive with his money than buying a car that is beyond his means.

    The purpose of this forum is to share information and advice with potential car buyers. Many people apply the advice they pick up on these forums at the dealership and save money they might have given away. I'm willing to bet that for every person who takes offense to the advice given here, there are ten people who learned from it.

    Finally, I disagree with habitat1 in one area. I love having a car payment. If somebody wants to give me nearly-free cash (low interest rate loan or a big rebate) that I can apply to my mortgage or investment portfolio, I take it every time (assuming I'm buying a car anyway). Heck, two of my cars are paid off and I'm thinking about refinancing them at 1.75% so that I can pick up cheap stocks after Obama drives us off the fiscal cliff...
  • Habitat numbers do add up....

    and as you said you always have to choose
    The best choice is always to buy a car that you can pay cash.
    Next best is to minimize the total interest paid over the life of the loan and by life I mean the time you intend to keep the loan not the maturity term.
    We all come here to save few hundreds in cast of the vehicle and then spend it all in interest.

    Hope you do not do this with bigger ticket items like house.

    We all make mistakes/overlook things the key is to learn and move on....unless the plan is (knowingly/unknowingly) put yourself in a situation to have someone come and bail you out.

    Enjoy the vehicle.
  • just concluded a lease deal for 2013 Acura MDX Base 12k term=36mo
    Monthly payment inclusive tax=$485 Drive off=$1289(inclusive 1st payment, registration/DMV fees,etc)

    Is this a good deal.... Thanks for your response
  • karhill1karhill1 Posts: 152
    Certainly everyone has different goals when purchasing a vehicle. What fits for one person is not always a fit for another person. However, reading the postings for this purchase makes a couple of things obvious.

    First, it makes little financial sense to extend a loan by twelve months while accepting a significantly higher interest rate just to save a lousy $50 a month. The ultimate fact is you saved nothing and will end up paying more due to the longer finance period.

    Second, anyone who is concerned over $50 a month probably should not buy a $47,000 vehicle.

    Third, this deal clearly supports the adage that payment buyers rarely achieve the best deal. You did, in fact, buy on payment. You stated you took a longer loan to avoid a higher payment. That is buying based on payment.

    With this being said, if you are happy with your deal nothing else counts, I suppose.
  • I am looking to buy 2012 MDX Base in Northern NJ area and looking to get an idea of prices paid so that when I walk in to the dealership, I have better understanding of pricing being offered. Also I wasn't sure if Acura offers balloon payment option given current 0.9% financing option and the last payment as balloon payment. Please share your experience if you were able to get the balloon payment option.
  • $43100 including destination fee.
  • beach15beach15 Posts: 1,305
    Acura financial does not have a balloon payment option.

    If you are interested in that, you should lease. Acura leases are always extremely attractive, have no closing/ending fees aside from mileage, and if you want to buy it out (i.e. use the residual as a balloon payment), at the end of the lease with Acura resale it will be a lower value than you could go out and buy the same 3 year old vehicle for.

    Leasing is your best option, if interested in doing this.
  • i got this deal and i am not sure to accept this or not.

    MSRP: 47,600
    Sale price: 40,300

    lease : 15000Miles/year, 36 month , 578/month, o down inclusive everythin OTD. residual 24,276
    Finance offer: .9% for 60 months.
    please let me know if i can take this car or not. i am ok to wait another month or so if i am going to get deal.
  • is sale price 41,250 is good for 2013 MDX w/tech.
  • I have requested internet quotes from a handful of dealers and am surprised there's not more discounting on the MDX at this point...2013 is the last year of this model (been out since 2007), and the Infiniti JX (which we are also looking at) has much better technology/features/3rd row space.

    I have gotten quotes for $43K and change (just price of the car) for a 2013 MDX tech pkg with roof rails and cross bars as accessories and that's it.

    I have a quote for a new 2012 MDX tech for $42650...again surprised there is not more aggressive pricing given it's a 2012.

    Anyone have better experience? The roof rails and cross bars are about $1100 listed on the quotes.

    Also, the "doc fee"/"administrative fee" is listed as $ this bogus? What is that?

    I scanned the pages and pages of previous posts and it looks like some folks have gotten $40K or just under.

    We don't have to do anything, will only buy if we can get a great deal. Otherwise we will wait.

    Thanks for any info.
  • jrod13jrod13 Posts: 36
    That seems like a great deal...what was your selling price? What state? I am looking in NJ. best I could get so far was 38.3k...1269 drive off 493 monthly 10k term=36M
  • I have this offer
    dealer takes my 2010 MDX Base Model and pays off 7 payments of $575
    I get a 2013 MDX Base Model for $500/mo for 36 months, selling price $40,000
    dealer pays first mo payment and I pay $150 registration etc.
    What do you folks think?
  • Or you can sell me your 2010 model lol
    I am deciding between a new 2013 model and a 2010 preowned model.
  • My residual is $25393. I only have 17,500 miles. I'm getting my wife a new car for a Christmas present. I am reducing my monthly payment by $75. I'm pretty happy with that deal!
  • Whoops!!! I have 7 payments of $575 left. My buyout would be more like $29,800.
  • Hi,

    I'm looking to buy a new MDX with tech package. I'm reading several post online and found people got excellent deal on theirs. What would be a good price for a new 2012 MDX with tech? I'm living in Seattle, WA.

    Thanks for response.
  • 40 k plus tax and fees is a good price
  • I called a local dealer, they want $44k for the 2012 Tech/Ent MDX. They currently have 6 of them in stock, what do you think the price should be?
  • jrod13jrod13 Posts: 36
    About two weeks back was offer 2012 tech ent for 42.4k in nj. Didn't push the issue since was looking for a 2013.
  • jrod13jrod13 Posts: 36
    Just finalized my deal on a 2013 base...park ave acura in nj is the best...closed my deal at 38k. Nick the sales guy was great. No surprises.
  • In Aug/Sept, $39k + TT&L was a good price on a 2012 MDX Tech. Given late model cars typically decreciate w/ age, I'd say that's still good.

    Assuming 3% holdback and $3k dealer incentives, they're cost should be around $38,800 on a Tech - excluding any volume payments they get from Acura (but I'd guess the volume guys already sold their '12s).
  • I think the price should be $39,300 for the Tech, $41,000 for the Tech/Ent.

    Assuming 3% holdback and $3k dealer incentives on the '12s, dealer cost should be around $38,800 for the Tech and $40,500 for the Tech/Ent. Give them $500 profit and they should be happy.

    That said, they're selling DVD players when the market is buying blu-rays so maybe the Ent isn't really worth that much...
  • Is your price OTD or before TTL? In VA, the lowest one is around $36.3K before TTL and other dealer fee.
  • I was offered a 2013 mdx base for 44k with taxes included (in NY). Good deal?
  • madayanmadayan Posts: 9
    edited December 2012
    I was offered $41,260 + TTL for a 2013 MDX w/ tech package via email. The guy further asked whether the price was agreeable to me, which makes me think there might be some more wiggle room. I am thinking of offering $40k + TTL. Am I being too aggressive here?

    Btw, two dealers confirmed that Acura just announced an additional $1000 incentive on 2013 MDXs. The offer price includes the incentive.

    Another question: Is there an upper borrowing limit for the 0.9% APR?

    Thanks in advance for any replies. I have benefitted immensely from this forum!
  • pastready2buypastready2buy Posts: 35
    edited December 2012
    I'd say $40k + TT&L on a '13 MDX Tech should be agreeable, especially if they improved the incentive from $1500 to $2500 on the '13s.

    EDIT: Edmunds lists the incentive increased from $1500 -> $2500 effective 12/7/2012 through 1/2/2013 so I'd estimate dealer cost around $39,600 after incentives and holdback (before volume incentives).
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