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Toyota Tundra vs. Chevrolet Silverado
bamatundra
Member Posts: 1,583
I am starting this discussion because of the following post:
"Mpalombo by bamatundra May 14, 2002 (08:30 am)
I am glad that you want to have an adult conversation. I am afraid that the Silverado owners in this topic really do not want to know the facts about Tundra vs. Chev. I don't want to start a flame war, so why don't you start a new topic? Something like "Tundra vs. Silverado" I would be glad to give you my opinion in an appropriate topic.
Thanks. "
Please try to keep this discussion civil and avoid personal attacks. Thankyou.
"Mpalombo by bamatundra May 14, 2002 (08:30 am)
I am glad that you want to have an adult conversation. I am afraid that the Silverado owners in this topic really do not want to know the facts about Tundra vs. Chev. I don't want to start a flame war, so why don't you start a new topic? Something like "Tundra vs. Silverado" I would be glad to give you my opinion in an appropriate topic.
Thanks. "
Please try to keep this discussion civil and avoid personal attacks. Thankyou.
0
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
2002 LEMON LIST
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Quadrunner500, perhaps the GMC folks don't have the time to call the NHTSA and file complaints - they're too busy haggling with lawyers, the BBB, GMC arbitration boards and trying to unload their GMCs. Not to mention creating their own GMC lemon websites, of which there is almost a complete lack of when we look at Tundra websites.
Why didn't your silverado make the list? The list shows the F150 as number one (least troublesome). There are fifty other trucks after that. Where is the silverado? You keep refusing to answer this simple question. What is the deal?
Yep I think I will sure trust consumer reports opinion on things (sarcasm)
The Tundra got outaccelerated loaded/empty by the GM1500. Silverado/Sierra has a larger box and ext cab and can be had with a substantially higher factory tow rating. The Tundra's brakes show superior performance but they have been plagued with problems. Heck-we all assumed the Tundra would be a higher quality truck since it's a Toyota platform but the recent discovery of http://www.lemonlaw.com/lemonlist.html has left this issue up for debate.
And Bama-you've been unable to prove the point you're tyring to make concerning that Lemon List. I don't agree with you, and until you can post more info to prove your point I don't believe you.
Just think about what you're saying-if what you claim is true the Lemon List is really just the second half of the 50 best autos?? C'mon Bama! All you have to do is show us the ranking of vehicles that are below those 50 and I'll admit I'm wrong. You keep refusing to address this simple request...why??
And BTW-I predict this thread will be closed in a day or two.
There are fifty vehicles listed from best to worst. The silverado did not even make the list! It is a pretty simple deduction that the fifty vehicles on the list are more reliable than your Chev.
Get real man! Smell the roses! The silverado is below the Tundra on the list. I am amazed that you keep posting a list that shows the Tundra is superior to the silverado!
Keep posting it - it shows how really weak the silverado is. You are a Tundra owner's best advocate.
Top 25 Best and Worst Vehicles The Center for Auto Safety analyzed complaints made to the government by Americans having problems with their vehicles. Below are the models that received the fewest complaints, and those that received the most. Models introduced in 2000 and 2001 are not represented due to a lack of data.
Best (Fewest complaints) Worst (Most complaints)
1. Ford F-Series 1. Mazda MPV
2. BMW 3 Series 2. Kia Sportage
3. BMW 5 Series 3. Ford Excursion
4. Volkswagen Golf 4. Ford Windstar
5. Mazda Truck 5. Mercury Cougar
6. Volvo C70 6. Volvo S40
7. Volkswagen Beetle 7. Honda Passport
8. Nissan Sentra 8. Honda S2000
9. Infiniti G20 9. Mitsubishi Eclipse
10. Acura RL 10. Isuzu Rodeo
11. Saab 9-5 11. Ford Explorer
12. Chevrolet Prizm 12. Land Rover Range Rover
13. Toyota Corolla 13. Audi A6
14. Infiniti QX4 14. Hyundai Tiburon
15. Nissan Altima 15. Honda Odyssey
16. Lexus RX300 16. Lincoln LS
17. Nissan Maxima 17. Jeep Grand Cherokee
18. Acura TL 18. Volkswagen Passat
19. Saab 9-3 19. Buick LeSabre
20. Pontiac Bonneville 20. Suzuki Grand Vitara
21. Mazda Millenia 21. Chevrolet Blazer
22. Mazda 626 22. Chevrolet Impala
23. Lincoln Town Car 23. Toyota Tundra
24. Ford Focus 24. Dodge Dakota
25. Honda Accord 25. Dodge Neon
Make what you will of it. I concluded that any auto not on one of the two lists falls somewhere in the middle.
Now you are getting it!!! - and you are driving it. Man! it sure took a long time to teach the silverado owners this simple fact.
If there is a list of 25 vehicles, doesn't it make sense that the Chev would be below the bottom of the list? I am having a hard time realizing your problem with accepting this simple fact.
Just curious what a truck that's worked 50 years looks and runs like.
kip
Good luck my friend
Wow! - I am amazed a so called GM owner would admit this.
Good Luck on this one now!
Guys I dont know what the heck all the fuss is about the 25 best and worst list, cause I havent read any of the posts above. Pretty simple though right ... if a car doesnt appear on worst list then its obviously ranked better and if it didnt appear on best list, then it obviously ranks poorer right ??? Or in other words .. somewhere in the middle.
BTW ... its a sad day when the beloved Toyota Tundra Problems thread is laid to rest lol. Let's see how much we have learned in this one.
This clearly shows that the organization has quite a bit of integrity (i.e. being able to admit a mistake, trying to mitigate the mistake, then offering apologies and a token of compensation for the mistake). Unlike some other companies that we (or certain individuals on this thread) know all too well, they did the right thing. They are a very credible organization - Most product evaluations that they perform are as objective as you can get. Of course, they are not perfect, but they have more hits than misses. Just ask Oby on this. He bought a Packard Bell computer based their recommendation. That was probably a miss, but Oby, that PB wasn't the highest recommended model-it was mid-range in the scores.
Regarding Tundra vs. GM Sliverado: CR rates the Tundra as "recommended" and gives it a big red cherry (highest)rating. The GM product gets a big black mark (lowest score)for reliability and CR, although states that the GM is a good performing truck, cannot recommend it because of its poor reliability.
On a different note, in the current Car and Driver mag (June issue), they did a long term test of a 6 liter 2001 GMC Sierra C3 AWD. They lightly reported on several "nits" that they experienced with the truck (so as not to piss off GM too much). Transmission quirks, "clicking"/"ticking" (knocking?) from the engine on cold starts that the Dealer service techs "weren't able to isolate and quell." Oil consumption of 3 quarts in 40,000 miles (I'm not sure if this is excessive?) and the "check oil" light would flash on ocassionally. Does CR and C&D have something in common here regarding GM products ? Hmmm....
And to make matters worse, we have the issue of GMC's diesel engines. They're the only manufacturer that screwed up royally with their diesels and have had to change their entire diesel engine line-up. I can't tell you exactly how long Dodge has used their Cummins, or how long Ford has used their PSD, but we all know it's been a long time and they're proven, damn good engines. Chevy is the only manufacturer of the Big 3 that developed a horrible diesel, discontinued it, then sought the assistance of a Japanese (though 49% owned by GMC) manufacturer. Such a track record doesn't reflect favorably upon GMC, no doubt.
Either way you go with GM, gas or diesel, you're taking a bigger gamble than with Dodge (known for bad trannys, except the manual) or especially Ford. Their diesel offering isn't nearly as tried and proven as Dodge's or Ford's, and their gassers knock like diesels.
If I needed a 1/2 ton truck right now, the Tundra would be a viable option, especially over the GMC 1/2 tons. Workability means nothing if the reliability isn't there. But the cold, hard truth is if you're going to be towing 6000lbs+, even if the 1/2 tons are advertised as being able to do so, you simply should go to a 3/4 ton. That's what I did, and I don't regret if for a second. In short, I wouldn't attempt to try anything with a Silverado that I wouldn't also expect a Tundra to do.
And as far as this nonsense goes about the "lemon-list" from attorneys Kimmel and Silverman, what can I say? The GMC folks are concentrating all their efforts on this list, as it's the only thing they've found in their favor. But really, what's the more creditable source? Two lawyers advertising online trying to make a buck, or thousands of disgruntled GMC customers participating in online GMC lemon websites?
Then there is Quad and his list that is from CAS, but he cannot post a link to it on the CAS web site to save his life. Why is that Quad? If the list is a CAS list, why is it not available on their web site as a news release?
What do the Tundra owners have:
1. CR for two years running have rated the Tundra number one in reliability and recommends it while not recommending the Rado.
2. JD Power has given the Tundra the number one spot in initial quality for two years in a row.
3. The NHTSA complaint page is REPLETE with complaints about the Rado, while the Tundra has a few. The 02 Tundra has 2 complaints, while the 02 Rado has 29.
twowheeler
FYI, I did not buy a Packard Bell. Get the fact's straight. My point was CR is good for what blender or maybe even lawnmower, as far as vehicles are concerned, I don't even bother with them as there are far better resources available. But you already know this right?
ndahi
It's called the FOIA. The Tundra problems are far too numerous to list. If you want the complete list, all you have to do is a request under FOIA. Course you will have to acknowledge that you will be responsible for any copying, mailing, or research fees which accompany your request. Hre's a link to the FOIA with the CIA in case you have any questions you'd like to ask them:
http://www.foia.ucia.gov/default.asp
The point being that you can request any info from any government organization under the FOIA. Then again, you knew this right? BTW, your condenscending attitude is not appreciated nor does it belong here.
I have been paying attention to what vehicles I see towing, lately. I have noticed you find lots of Toyotas in college towns, and not too many in between. Just returned from 3788 mile, two week, 3 wild turkey trip. East Coast to NW Arkansas, back through Alabama,(didn't see our favorite resident), Georgia, SC, NC, and VA. Did not see ONE Toyota Tundra towing anything on the highways. Did see one taco hooked up to about a 16' flat bottom boat....It was broke down beside HWY 58 in Southern VA. LOTS of Silverados and Ford products towing. Not as many, but several Dodge trucks towing. Heaviest thing I saw loaded on a Toyota was a 17' Old Towne canoe near the Buffalo River in the Ozarks of NW Arkansas.
Good luck on this one now!
Tom
Obyone's GM has been in the shop over 4 months. Quad had to trade his '99 lemon in. (Two intermediate steering shafts, leaking differential, leaking rear slider, etc. etc.
I'm glad to see that TT has a groupie now. It is sort of cute.
Good luck on this one now!
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Tom
Tom - does YOUR Tundra have sludge? Just curious.
Now - as far as knocking engines go - Chevy claims that it is perfectly normal for their engines to knock. Would you buy a vehicle knowing that it might knock and Chev will tell you that it is "normal".
Just another clue that Chev really does not care about its customers. Does Chev really believe that its customers will buy its dog and pony show? I sure hope not.
Reason being - I road tripped back there over spring break - Northern AL. Saw countless Tundras, a lot more than when I left. In fact, if I remember this right, I saw more Tundras than any other 1/2 ton on all of Hwy 72. Local Toy dealers must be making a killing. I drove in and out on Hwy 72 between Chattanooga and Decatur - lots of lakes and lots of trucks (and Tundras) towing boats. Now I used to live there (3 years) and I'll agree - there are LOTS more GM and Ford trucks owned there. But on that one trip I saw more Tundras than anything else.
I also saw my first ever government Tundra rig - a state truck with racks of stuff for (I guess) highway work. Must be some deal they struck with Toy for locating the new engine plant in Huntsville.
Jeff
Tom
I couldn't care less if you don't acknowledge my posts, I've never posted to you specifically (until now) anyways.
For your information, I retired from working for Kootenai County for 20+ years. Now I own my own business specializing in tree removal. Boy, did we make a killing after the 1996/1997 icestorm - bought me a new Ford! I know what works and what breaks.
tomh12, regarding the sludge. First, the only engines affected by the sludge are the 3.0 V6 and their 4 cylinder. No Tundra engines are affected. Second, only 3300 vehicles out of 3.2 million have the sludge issue, which translates to .103% You see, when you're #1, everybody will focus on you and exploit any shortcoming, no matter how insignificant. GMC's problems as of now dwarf those Toyota is experiencing tenfold.
I think the more likely explanation is certain personalities here are making an irrational fuss about every conceivable thing about the Tundra - simply because it's a Toyota.
As far as the list of "25 best" and "25 worst" vehicles metioned above, I would think there is a middle zone of vehicles that didn't have enough complaints to make the worst list, but had vehicles that also had fewer complaints to make the best list. Is there not more than 50 makes and models of vehicles to choose from out there?
Anyway, just my opinion, I'm sure it won't take long for "bama" to twist my words into something totally sarcastic.
Happy trails.
Also, you did not address my question about the Toyota engine KNOCK issue that I have seen discussed in other topics here and also at other forums. Does Toyota know what is causing this knocking in some of their engines? Do you know what percentage of Tundras have this problem.
If you prefer, and maybe we should, we could discuss this in the Toyota Tundra Problems topic if it would be more appropriate there since it really doesn't have anything to do with Tundra VS Silverado 1500.
Thanks for your help.
Tom
Personally I would be embarrased to drive a Toyota, but then I believe in buying american. That Tundra is a nice ladies truck though, but not for my wife.
http://www.angelfire.com/tx5/gmpistonslap/index.html
We all know Toyota owners are very demanding and have high expectations from their vehicles. They've been spoiled. If Toyota engine knock exists as you suggest, I'm sure we'll hear about it! But as of yet, there hasn't been nearly the response for Toyota engine knock as there has been for GMC engine knock. Please be rational in your conlusion.
qzs4vb, all Toyota trucks are made in the USA, while GMC has production lines in 3d world countries like Mexico. Ignorance is bliss, isn't it?
I'm very picky when it comes to my toys, and so far this is the honest truth about my truck.
I have a slight engine tick for about 10 seconds at cold start up.
I check the oil level just prior to every oil change and it is always at full.
I've not had any recalls on it, and it's never been in a shop for a repair on anything.
I've had no rattles, shakes, knocking, etc. from day one.
I've been 4x4'ing and boat towing with no concerns (except that I only caught 1 fish yesterday).
My highway mileage (at 75 to 80 mph w/out towing) averages 18.5 mpg.
My city mileage (at around 35 mph) averages 15.5 mpg.
I've have never gone out and really worked this truck to its limits and probably never will. But for the things that is has done for me, it has performed flawlessly and without complaint.
Could a Tundra have done the same things that I've done with my Silverado flawlessly and without complaint? I'm sure it could have, I have no reason to believe that it couldn't.
When you do get a good one, they both are fine trucks and I'm sure they will perform nearly the same with one being better at some things and worse at others.
I do know that I have no regrets what-so-ever with my truck. And I feel extremely sorry for those Tundra or Silverado owners who didn't get the good truck like they were expecting to get. But does that mean that one is still better than the other? I my opinion....not. And that same debate is several decades old when it come to Ford vs. Chevy, and it still has never been settled.
Thanks for your time, and now to get back to more important things....which could be just about anything other than this.
Hope the trout are biting tomorrow.
Duped Tundra owners have been calling the NHTSA in droves. Complaint index 2454
1-800-LEMON-LAW
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Tom
Neighbor just traded his T100 for a Tacoma Crew Cab. He tows a 2800# boat. Funny isn't it? Replacing Toyota's full size with a pint sized truck.
I think many of the Tundra owners would be better off with the Tacoma. At least IT didn't make the top 25 most complained about vehicles.
Back in the summer of 1998 I test drove a new 1999 Silverado 1500 ext-cab Z-71, and I too would have given that specific vehicle an "avoid" rating. It was not well built, rattled, was all over the road, and about bounced me out of my seat.
However, since I only test drove that one truck, does that give me the right to say that "all" 1999 Silverados are to be avoided? No, I only tested that one truck. Maybe if I had tested 100 trucks I could come up with a more justified "avoid" recommendation if it warranted it, but not with just one truck being sampled.
Can you tell me how many trucks did Consumer Reports test before it came up with its "avoid" rating for the 1999 and 2000 Silverados?
I'm sure there are a significant percentage of those 1999 or 2000 Silverados that are good trucks to own. My dad owned one, a new 2000 Silverado reg-cab 2wd. I sold it for him after a year and 18,000 miles later, and he then went and bought a new 2001 ext-cab Z-71. We got $500 below Kelly Blue Book for it, and it was a good well build truck. I work near the guy who bought it, and he is still very happy with it.
Not that I really care, but what does C.R. say about the 2001 Silverados?
http://www.gmpistonslap.cjb.net/
http://drive.to/agmlemon
http://www.gmclemon.com/
http://community.ourfriendsonline.com/gmclemontree/
And finally:
http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/longterm/articles/44039/page024.html
Tundra:
California attorneys Kimmel and Silverman put it on their online lemon-list advertisement.
Draw your own conclusions, gentlemen...
Makes no sense for you to be complaining. You're already trolling in the new Silverado topics.
1-800-LEMON-LAW