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Toyota Tundra vs. Chevrolet Silverado



  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    The bigger question is how are some stores doing it for free..forever?

    Oil filter type and oil change procedure..that would have been me.
  • vmax2007vmax2007 Posts: 46
    My guess is that when they say "free", they mean labor is free. Then they charge a premium for parts (oil and filter). I have seen this many times in the past. And/or...They want you in there as much as possible to get you to spend money on other services which you may or may not need or could get done elsewhere for less money. Any way you look at it, their goal is to make money, not to give anything away.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Nope.. free as in come in drop off the keys and walk out paying nothing....ever.

    There is method to the seeming madness but it takes a person with a different level of thinking ( and confidence to assume some risk ) to make it work.
  • vmax2007vmax2007 Posts: 46
    In the long run, they know they will make enough money off of you to cover all of the costs of the free oil changes, plus some. Dealers are a business, and a good chunk of their profits come from their service department. They are not in business to give stuff away or lose money, or they wouldn't be in business very long, now would they? Believe me, they figure in the cost of these free oil changes into their operating costs and set their prices accordingly. I suppose if you are a "savvy" customer, you could take advantage of this and only bring your car to the dealer for the oil changes and somewhere else for the service, but they know most people don't do that and prefer to minimize their trips to the service shops. "Why not get that routine maintenance done while your at it anyway". More power to them I say.
  • myobmyob Posts: 51
    I just got a Tacoma, but in 2 years our other car will be ready for replacement and I considered giving the Tacoma to my wife to drive and buying a reg cab truck for work. I have times when I need more bed space and just need a bigger truck.

    I did a little looking on the website where you can buy and price cars (and where I got the Tacoma) and a moderately equipped 2wd 5.7L Tundra set up with what I'd need/want (wider tires, stiffer suspension, alloys, chrome grill, etc) was a LOT more than a Silverado. It drove out for $29,000 with tax. That is a LOT for a pretty basic pickup. The Silverado's roughly comparable truck was $22,000.

    If things don't change I know which I'd choose, especially if they put the 6 speed auto in the Silverado. I'm not particularly brand loyal.

    The pricing seems to be closer on extended cab versions.
  • 1offroader1offroader Posts: 208
    I'm not going to respond with personal attacks like you have done previously e.g. "That's your version of spin, and not very intelligent at that (but don't worry, we don't expect that from you)." I guess you haven't learned already that it is not proper online etiquette or allowed on Edmunds.

    Hey buddy, you started it with your accusation that " I knew you were going to try to spin" the issue of the relative diffculty of basic maintenance items like oil changes. It has since been discussed that the Tundra owner must remove skid plates just to get to the filter. So, how is that speculation??? And, you further asserted that my past negative experiences regarding lousy workmanship were with Chevy dealers. So who, exactly, started this flame war?

    It's not spin to point out the facts, no matter how unpleasant they are for you. With me you get what you give. I take no bs off anyone, most especially those whose demonstrated knowledge of things mechanical is zip. This especially includes you ggesq.

    BTW, the local Toyota dealer (Power Toyota, (562) 860-6561) here charges $32.88 + the Guvernator charges an add'l. 8.25% tax for a total of $35.59. Not too far from my original estimate of $40 which you pooh-poohed. Go ahead, spin THAT. Now, that's not terrible, but over the life of a vehicle it adds substantially to the cost of ownership. Not to mention the time involved and the high potential to get a lousy job.

    BTW, I even checked the price of the filter alone. The parts dept. said they are $7.00, but the guy I talked to seemed confused so no promises on that price. If they are actually $7, which isn't bad at all, whoever is paying $20-$23 is getting ripped. This of course won't benefit anyone who doesn't have the ability or motivation to do it themselves.

    I cannot recopmmend this (or any) Toyota dealer for service based on the lousy past experiences I've had, but knock yourself out. And good luck with that, let us know how it goes for you.

    And BTW, I don't care what Toyota says about oil change intervals. They are in the businees to sell cars, and the faster you wear yours out the faster they can sell you a new one. But for you, I'd recommend at least 10,000 mile intervals. 20,000 miles would be better.

    And another thing ggesq. I have provided more useful technical information to this discussion than anyone else I can think of. The differences between open, LS, and locking differentials; the usefulness of 4 and 6 bolt main bearing caps, etc. LOOK IT UP. I have 35+ years of experience messing with cars. Based on my personal experience with Toyota dealers, I would put my technical/mechanical knowledge up against most so-called Toyota "mechanics" any day.

    'nuff said.

  • vmax2007vmax2007 Posts: 46
    Well said 1offroader. I like your posts, and not just because I am a GM guy. I haven't had a chance to read all 1700+ posts on this thread, but from what I have read scanning through it, you and pmusce (sp?) are not giving the tundra guys much of a prayer. Seems they are really reaching for anything they can get their hands on and are sounding foolish most of the time. I won't mention any names, but they know who they are.
    Oh, and although there has been alot of "spinning" on here, it seems to be mostly coming from the tundra guys trying to strengthen their cases.

    2007 VortecMax owner.
  • 1offroader1offroader Posts: 208
    Excellent post, belias. And one that is potentially useful to the Tundra owner, thank you.

    Indeed, the potential problem with the canister filter on the Tundra lies with access. If I have a chance in the future I willl take a peak under a hood and post add'l. info.

    There is another problem with canister filters of the type you described. When the paper insert is removed, some of the oil drips back into the canister along with the junk that the filter is supposed to retain. You don't want that going back into the engine but to some degree it is inevitable with that type filter. With tractors, it's not such a big deal - those things rarely turn more than 1500 rpm and they aren't driven hundreds of thousands of miles at interstate speeds. A little extra gunk in the crank case, eh, no big deal. There are tractors out there 50+ years old and running fine.

    With spin on filters, all the gunk is retained inside the steel canister and thrown away, just like God and nature intended.

    Now, with some canister type filters that I have worked on, the steel canister has a long bolt going through it. The bolt is threaded on the end and holds the whole shebang on the engine. Remove the bolt and the whole thing comes off. The paper insert is removed and replaced, then the whole thing is put back on. In essence, the steel canister is re-used each time unlike the screw-on type. With this type of canister, the gunk can be cleaned out and doesn't go back into the engine. But, it is messier to some degree.

    And yes, there is a neoprene o-ring around the top that needs to be replaced every once in a while but like you said, no big deal. It probably costs a buck or two.
    With the screw-on filter you get a new gasket each time because it is part of the filter.

  • geo9geo9 Posts: 739
    Any of you GM guys remember the filter in the canister
    set up GM used up untill 1967 ? I wonder if yotas deal
    is the same?

    Imagine the trouble that would follow if a oil change
    guy messed up the threads or whatever on that deal?
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    Can you get a 6.0L/6.2L in RC in the Chevy? :surprise:

    Just curious, as you said roughly similarly equipped.

    That would be similarly equipped. A 5.3 would be a little too "rough" to make a comparison, no?

  • ggesqggesq Posts: 701
    "IF" the truck came with a skid plate, it would take one extra step in removing the plate. If that's a big deal, then so be it :confuse:

    Wow- I didn't mean for you to take this forum so seriously. You've taken a defensive stance and approach. Lighten up.

    As far as your local Toyota dealer charging what they do- ummm ok. Mine charges lower. So what? Some folks like doing their own work and take pride in that, which I can appreciate. Others don't.

    This conversation is actually off topic, (your 35 years of blah blah blah and oil changes) maybe we should get back to the comparison?
  • beliasbelias Posts: 316
    Yeah, I agree with some of the potential problems that the canister system may not address. It is unfortunate that we don't know enough about how this systems really works on the Tundra. Even the claim of $23 for the filter seems exceptionally weird. I would have to look back in the forum to see who first posted this number as I don't think it has been verified (though I believe that it was mentioned maybe because there was a shortage and someone that had stock was taking advantage of the situation).
    In any case, what we really need is, as you said, someone to actually look under the truck and find out what the real deal is and whether in fact the skid plate needs to be removed (if the skid plate option was taken).
    Again, spin ons have their pros and cons as well, but more importantly most people actually expect to see that, so, all things being equal, it is still the preferred method.
    As for the price of oil changes, I don't think that this varies much from dealer to dealer and is of little consequence to people that change their own oil anyway. I do when it is cheaper for me to do and when I have the time, but there are situations where it may be faster/cheaper to do it at a dealership (i.e. if I'm in the area and there is a special, etc.)
    I will say though that there are dealers that will do it pro bono as part of the deal for any vehicle purchased for the warranty period (up to 3 years usually, though BMW does this standard on theirs for the first 4 years). What people forget to mention is that the catch is in the intervals. According to dealership maintenance guides 7500 to 15000 mile intervals are the norm. That means that a 3/36K warranty with "free" oil changes amounts to between 2 to 4 oil changes. That, for most people will actually amount to between $50 and $150 worth of "free" services. That is easily offset by the benefit of having you come into their shop to demonstrate their service and to promote more opportunites for doing other services at the same time. Also, I'm pretty sure that it adds to the actual price of the vehicle in terms of what they will deal. Lastly, I'm sure that only half the people out there ever take advantage of it. People may forget that it is an offered service, or move out of the vicinity, or may have bought it there because the dealer that is more convenient didn't have the vehicle they wanted or the price they wanted to pay... in other words, there are lots of variables to why a good number of people wouldn't do it.
  • dreasdaddreasdad Posts: 276
    Every body that owned a vehcile was mailed a letter and everybody that had done service at our dealership that had the Tundra and the Highlander was also mailed a letter concering this fix.

    After all Toyota pays the dealer on warranty claims

    they forgot to tell you probably since you did not own one

    but booth recalls where widely reported in the press
  • khousekhouse Posts: 8
    I have to tell you man that Denali is one good looking truck, probably just a little bit out of my price range. Thinking of a new Chevy or maybe GMC Crewcab. I like the Tundras also, but it seems their gear ratios are a little low. They have 4:10 and 4:30 gears. I don't tow a lot so I'm thinking the higher gears like 3:42 and 3:73 would be better for all around mpg's
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    "I like the Tundras also, but it seems their gear ratios are a little low. They have 4:10 and 4:30 gears. I don't tow a lot so I'm thinking the higher gears like 3:42 and 3:73 would be better for all around mpg's"

    It also depends on how much of an overdrive the various trucks have.

    Anybody got any idea of the top gear ratios for the Tundras and the GM's?
  • beliasbelias Posts: 316
    OK, here is some definitive info. First off, you do have to be under the vehicle to change the oil, but the process actually isn't as difficult as previously thought. The jury is still out on whether or not the skid plate actually has to be removed, but so far a couple of people have said so.
    The oil can be drained straight through a plug within the cannister that points straight down (so no dripping if done properly) and not at an angle.
    Two o-rings are provided with the filter and prices at dealerships look to be about $4.50 each. The part # is 04152-38020 for the 5.7l engine.
    I have a pdf document that explains the whole system, but can't post it from here until I get home later today. That gives a pretty good idea of how the system works and how to do the oil change.
    It isn't as straight forward as a regular spin on, but it doesn't look as difficult as initially though either. It seems like the skid plate is the biggest problem if that is ordered. However, looking at other trucking forums it seems like almost all truck owners with some kind of skid-plate or undercarriage protection need to remove them for that or other maintenance and inspections. Some owners have claimed to have "improvised" solutions such as snipping out holes, etc but also complain about the ability to reach and the angle of departure of oil dripping out and still getting onto the skid plate.
    It is a pain in almost any vehicle (having a skid plate) for doing virtually anything under the vehicle (though it can also save you a lot of problems when off-roading or on gravel/dirt roads).
    Again, I'll post the pdf a little later today when I can, but thought that the info showed the change wasn't that difficult. Removing the skid plate seems to be more of a problem, though not unique to Toyota.
    Also, it seems like many passenger cars have been moving back to the cartridge system. That is a little weird to me, as this is something that is basically most used on farming/heavy duty type machinery. In any case, many of Toyota's passenger cars and I think virtually all of BMW's new vehicles incorporate this system.
    Again, not sure if the benefits out-weigh the complexity of the system, but it seems like it isn't nearly as bad as it was first made out to be. I just wish that it could have been accessed from the top (though I suppose I still need to be under the vehicle to drain the oil anyway).
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    With the 6 speed the higher gearing is higher than the others. The Tundra has in effect two overdrive gears. That's where you'll save money in fuel even with the bigger engine.
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    "I like the Tundras also, but it seems their gear ratios are a little low. They have 4:10 and 4:30 gears. I don't tow a lot so I'm thinking the higher gears like 3:42 and 3:73 would be better for all around mpg's"

    Okay, I looked up the overdrive gear ratio for the Tundras and the GM 4-speed.

    The Tundra 5-spd (smaller V8) has a 0.716 overdrive and a 4.1 rear end. So, the combined final drive would be 2.96:1.

    The Tundra 6-spd (larger V8) has a 0.588 overdrive and a 4.3 rear end. So, the combined final drive would be 2.53:1.

    From what I can tell (it's hard to find data), the GM 4-spd has a 0.70 overdrive. So, with a 3.73 rear end, the combined final drive would be 2.66:1. With a 3.42 rear end, the combined final drive would be 2.39:1.

    So, in effect, the Tundra with the small V8 WOULD be turning more rpms at highway speed while the Tundra with the 5.7 would be turning rpms somewhere between a GM with the 3.42 and the 3.73 (assuming similar tire sizes of course).
  • khousekhouse Posts: 8
    Thanks for the info, I just wanted to know the differences. I don't need to tow a lot, so I'm thinking the mid range gears might be better.
  • beliasbelias Posts: 316
    I'm not sure how to make an attachment... Host, is there an easy way to attach a pdf document that shows info on changing oil for the 2007 Tundra? Can you help?
  • vmax2007vmax2007 Posts: 46
    Well, well, well...hmmm, where do I begin?

    Just got home from the Mpls Auto show where I spent 4 hours (My feet are killing me btw) walking around. Most of my time was spent at the truck displays. Let me start by saying that I own a brand new 2007 GMC Sierra SLT 4x4 Crewcab with the VortecMax 6.0 (hence my username). I can honestly say that after looking at all of the "competition" very thoroughly, especially the Tundra, I now know that I absolutely, 110%, without a shadow of a doubt made the right choice. I pretty much knew this already since I began my research 6 months ago and I have been a GM guy my whole life. But I wanted to compare all of the trucks I researched all in one venue. Keep in mind that this post is all my opinion and is based on my wants and needs as a truck owner. I realize that everyone has their own tastes as well as their own specific needs when it comes to a pick-up truck. With that said let me go into some detail, I will focus on the Tundra in this thread since it is a comparison between the GMs and the Tundra.
    The Tundra was far less impressive than I expected. The outside actually does look better in person than in pictures, but it is still ugly. The interior was worse in person than in pictures. Terrible layout of the large, ugly, cheap looking controls. The whole interior seemed really cheap. The seats were not nearly as comfortable as my GMC's Ultra-soft leather seats are. I would say it's like comparing a Cadillac to a Vega. When I was looking at the Tundra chassis they had on an angled display and checking out the frame, there was a Toyota "Product Specialist" aka Sales guy, bragging the frame up to an unsuspecting customer. When he was done with him, he asked me if I had any questions. I said "Yeah, I would like to challenge your comments on the frame" and then I proceeded to ask him why he thought the Tundra frame was better. His reasons were ridiculous, buy I tried to remain diplomatic and courteous. We were having a very good discussion/debate and then another fella (A Ford fan) joined us and also proceeded to question the Tundra's frame. This guy was not as nice as I was being however. He was being very blunt, but not rude. Finally, after about 10 mins, the Tundra salesman actually got frustrated and said "see ya" and turned around and walked away. Basically, we brought him to his knees and he knew he was beat. Unbelievable, I was shocked. As for my opinion on the frame? Aside from it not being a fully boxed frame all the way back, I noticed that the crossmembers were formed from flat sheet metal and bolted in, as opposed to tubular members on the GMs that are welded all the way through the boxed frame (both sides). I also noticed that every single Tundra they had had a bed mat in it, so I looked underneath to see what they were hiding. First, why are their exposed bolt heads? (Fords still have these too), GM has not had these for 10 years. Second, and more importantly, they actually stick up higher than the ribs in the bed floor. Doesn't this raise a flag in your mind? Cargo, whether it be cardboard boxes, shovels, anything really, will catch on these boltheads and rip boxes open and/or damage cargo (ie: furniture). Sure, a bed mat or drop-in bedliner will take care of this, but what about people who do not want a bed mat or liner, or (like me) prefer a spray-in liner? I was impressed with their cutaway model of their engine however. The engine was the only thing I was impressed with though. Overall "fit-n-finish" was nowhere near the quality of the GMs. I think I was smiling all the way home, knowing I was driving the better truck.
    No offense to all of you Toyota loyalists now, remember, I said this was my opinion. I just wanted to share it.

  • toykickstoykicks Posts: 95
    Just saw the Government crash tests. Tundra scored lower with 4 stars and GMs twins, fords f150 and dodges Ram scored 5 stars. I wouldnt have a field day on this yet since the old gen f150 got a score of 4-5 stars and look how it turned out in Highway crash tests :P it also scored better then the old gen tundra in Government tests.

    Lets see how the tundra does in High way crash tests if it fails Screw the tundra :mad: .

    toyota started making special orders of duallys in march dont know what the payload on those hefrs are anybody know more info?
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    Yawn! :surprise:

    Like you would say you made a mistake?

    Since you obviously didn't want a Tundra, and didn't take the time to see it/drive it before buying the Chevy, your appraisal after the fact means less than nothing.

    They're both top-notch trucks, but you are eager, more like defensive, to run down the Tundra. Who are you trying to convince?

    I didn't know research & lip service were synonymous? Now I know. ;)

  • geo9geo9 Posts: 739
    The salesfolk and toyyoyo fans on this thread sure
    are hatin' on any negative posts on that "wonder truck"!
    That 4 star rating (along with the premium price difference)
    is sure gonna sway quite a few buyers to other brands !

    Thats gonna be a hard one to explain to a possible
    customer how a truck with NO side air bags got a BETTER
    crash rating than one that does................

    I suppose the salesforce could babblegaff them past this
    little failure of this wonder truck with promotion of
    extra charge floormats, mudflaps, rust n' dust, choke n'
    croak, SET fees and other toyyoyo goodies........... :P
  • vmax2007vmax2007 Posts: 46

    Why the attack? I stated several times in my post that this was MY OPINION!!! Am I not entitled to my opinion and the right to state it on here? It may mean nothing to you, and that's fine, but don't speak for everyone on here. Sounds to me like YOU are the one being defensive, not me. I was just giving my assessment based on my OPINIONS!!! You like the Tundra better? Fine, go buy one...or two...or 10, I really couldn't care less. Geez, you (most anyway) Toyota fans on here sure are touchy. Why?
  • geo9geo9 Posts: 739
    They are hatin' on you because you are a ACTUAL OWNER
    of a truck ! And even more so because its NOT a toyyoyo
    brand. :cry:
  • vmax2007vmax2007 Posts: 46
    They are hatin' on you because you are a ACTUAL OWNER
    of a truck ! And even more so because its NOT a toyyoyo

    That is pathetic. :sick:
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Thats gonna be a hard one to explain to a possible
    customer how a truck with NO side air bags got a BETTER
    crash rating than one that does................

    That's because you don't know how the tests are done nor how they are rated. Like your previous post I don't know if you've ever presented a coherent thought concerning these two. Yes you have a lot of insinuations and hate toward SET but your personal vendetta's are not everyone elses.

    Troll on...............there must be an 'I hate SET' forum somewhere.
  • vmax2007vmax2007 Posts: 46

    You are as bad as DrFill, why are you Toyota people so defensive? Why do you attack anyone who is not a Toyota fan? You both sound like Salesmen who feel the need to defend your product and attack anyone who doesn' like it. Sorta like that guy at the Auto Show last night, he was the same way. Can't other people state their opinion without getting abused? Lighten up, Toyota's are not the almighty God that we all must worship. sheesh.
  • geo9geo9 Posts: 739
    Videos, pics, and reports of the tindras POOR frontal crash
    performance are all OVER the net as well on several
    major network news programs..............

    I am sure most toyyoyo salesfolks as well as the cheerleaders placed their collective heads in the sand
    because the tindra DID NOT out score other full size

    Now if the shoe was on the other foot and brand X had
    a worse crash test rating than the tindra I am SURE
    the toyyoyo fans would be burning up bandwidth proclaiming
    yotas triumph over the "lesser" truck brands !

    As far as toyyoyos SET fees........ What a RIP OFF !
    Not too consumer friendly eh? Plenty of posts from
    unsuspecting folks who got the suprise of their life
    over this charge once they stepped into the F&I office.

    KDH........Do YOU explain this charge or warn the customer
    in ADVANCE? Or do you let them blindly go to F&I unwarned?
    If so.......Why not?????????? :P
This discussion has been closed.