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BMW 5-Series Wagon 2004 Redesign



  • bmwsellerbmwseller Posts: 200
    The die has been cast. That's it. There really is nothing more to wait for. There is no doubt in my mind that the car will be a home run for BMW. In fact I've sold a half dozen of them already. But, is that the test of a great car? If one really wants to know what the car is all about, go to your local center and drive the car, feel it. The car is an achievement in the sense of doing what a car is supposed to do. I feel the passion here at my center, at the point of the ultimate moment of truth. I hear the oohs, ahs, wows and laughter. You can't get that on your PC.
  • erickplerickpl Posts: 2,735
    A couple of points.

    I can and will compare the 5 to the LS. Why? Because I can. Also, size-wise, and performance wise, the LS is comparable. The 5 is supposed to be the segment leader right? Okay then. The LS is targetting the same segment, so why can't Joe User? Your statements that the 5 and LS don't compare almost sounds like somebody trying to have another person avoid the comparison.

    I saw the 5, and personally like it. I still want to drive the various versions though. But that does NOT mean I won't consider the LS. In my test drives of the LS to date, I've been very impressed with handling, quietness, comfort (those A/C seats are great!), and the price/value. I personally hate Fords, but will consider this one.

    As a seller, you sure seem very sure of the 5's future. You should be promoting the advances in the 5 and encouraging these comparisons. Right now, you sound a bit uncertain.

    I am hoping the 5 continues to be great for BMW and for the drivers. It is controversial. It is radical. It is innovative. For those reasons, it may succeed, but for those same reasons, it may be doomed.

  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    bmwseller, although I disagree with you and question your sincerity, I do admire your enthusiasm... kind of like when Robert Preston sang "Trouble" and "76 Trombones" in Music Man. I wonder if there is a Shirley Jones around here who you can sweep off her feet. Better do it with an X5 though... seems she would have been the SUV type. ;-)
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 11,076
    Yes, we need to be careful that we're not so over-the-top enthralled with any one brand, lest we be blinded to the shortcomings. Every car has faults, tho I continue on the quest to find the perfect vehicle.


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  • joatmonjoatmon Posts: 315
    Just got back from the sales meeting, eh?
  • bmwsellerbmwseller Posts: 200
    I walk the walk also. Hey, guys look at whatever car you want. Compare it to a ford, a kia, whatever. Give me some feedback about what the car drives like. GO DRIVE THE CAR!!! I wish that you could stop by here. I'd give you the "full meal deal" and treat you like a million bucks. It would be fun.
        In comparing the lincoln to the BMW consider what is most important to you!! And, make sure that you get absolutely the biggest discount possible because that thing has depreciation written all over it. Total cost of ownership in a 3 year time period is WAY less on a 'bimmer. Not to mention it takes better than two full car lengths more to stop the Ford in a 0 to 70 panic stop. Wouldn't want to rearend anyone.
        How 'bout those headlights, WOW!
  • mch2mch2 Posts: 36
    With all due respect, I don't need to drive this car to know I don't want it. While I have no doubt that the car accelerates, handles, etc. like a dream, perhaps even better than my 2003 530i, the bottom line for me is I do not like the way the car looks, and that is not going to change. I do not remember ever changing my mind about whether a particular car appeals to me asthetically after first seeing it and I am absolutely certain that driving it won't change my mind. When I was buying my 530i I had a chance to drive a 7 series (long story) and it is truly an unbelievable car in terms of performance and comfort, totally first rate. In spite of my high regard for the cars abilities I still would never buy one because it's looks simply do not appeal to me.
  • bmwsellerbmwseller Posts: 200
    the 2003 530i was a great selection, obviously. I have a '95 525i (my first 'bimmer) and I love the classic style. I always show it to my clients. It's a testament of durability and style. I wanted to trade it in and get the new one but can't quite pull the trigger. They are all just temporary in my mind. This new 5 is getting a BIG response. Either negative or positve as the old cliche' goes ,and in this sense I believe is appropriate, 'there is no such thing as bad publicity'.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    That could be a good marketing strategy: blind fold customers! They'd all buy. Just don't let them see the styling first. ;-)

  • controversy over styling when the E39 was introduced? I wasn't in the market for one when it was introduced so I can't remember- think I was still pricing out used Honda Civics back then! All I can say about the present situation is :BMW better be very careful here about losing its current customers and maintaining its aura of class and style. BMW has a built up a gold mine here I tell you- I bought my first BMW (530) back in June and since then, owners of waaay more expensive autos ( Denali's, Eddie Bauer Expeditions, etc) have asked me how I was able to afford a BMW.
  • joatmonjoatmon Posts: 315
    Hey, I love BMWs. Have an 03 530i, wife has 03 X5 and my son has an 03 540i6. I'm sold on 'em.

    Now that we have that out of the way, my concerns:

    1. Styling doesn't say, "work 2 jobs and skip lunch to own me". It's ok, notice that's a small ok. A year old E60 will have more door dings than a 15 year old has pimples. That stuff may work on a Z4, but not on the family sedan.

    2. Lots of new techno stuff. Given the track record of BMW's introduction of new gizmos, I'm at least 2, maybe 3 years away, from where I'd jump on board. But, that's why I'm driving an 03.

    3. The BMW 6 rules, but needs poked out to 3.3 or even 3.6 liters. When the Altima, Accord and Mazda 6 have more grunt, it doesn't work. The E39 was seven years old, so it was forgiven. BMW needs to look at Nissan, Honda and Mazda, not as competitors, but as the low water mark of performance expectations.

    I may live with a car from 3 to 7 years. I just don't like buying a $50k that doesn't have the torque of the pizza delivery guy driving the Altima. Yeah, I know, them's BMW horses and all. But, I expected better from a "new" car from the "ultimate driving machine" people.

    /end rant

    /start rest of life
  • bmwmrcbmwmrc Posts: 66
    I had an oxford green 525i with premium wheels, 6 cd changer and absolutely loved the classic lines and the car. I now have a 2003 525i and love my new car. As much as I loved my first bimmer, the 2003 car beats my last one in refinement and handling. I just wished the car had a tad bit more HP from a dead start. But once I'm up to speed this car flies! BTW I have the PP, SP, 6 cd changer and xenon lights.

    I personally think the style for me was equal. Now, the 2004?---I just don't know. Aesthetically, the car does absolutely nothing form me. I will wait and see.
  • I'd be more than happy to discuss design/and or cars with you. However, without even knowing who I am, or what I do, or what cars I have, you seem to have categorized me in a certain way. This, my friend, disqualifies you from continuing this dialogue.

    Have fun at Bangle bashing.
  • bmwsellerbmwseller Posts: 200
    Looking at the sedans in this segment than which would we rank 1st for exterior styling.

    Not the's old fashioned and a lot of the components (taillights, door handles, trunk) are really not up to par for what you expect in this class. Back end looks like a Taurus.

    Not the Lexus GS430.....atttractive but uninspiring maybe even boring. Fit and finish is good but it does little to distinguish itself. Headlights are cheap looking in a way which is surprising with fat clumsy-looking rubber seals sticking out awkwardly and the lower reflector looks like someone just stuck it on the car. nit picking, maybe but blah..

    Not the Cadillac.....almost a cool shape but that front grille arrangement with the verticle headlights is almost as dumb as the rear with the blacked out area in the center. The closer you get the tackier it is.

    Not the Mercedes E.....Long high hood is really sort of cool but it has nothing to accent it and ends up making me wonder what happened to the rest of the car. Tiny windows make the car look small and the trunk just drops off into nothing. A closer look leads me to question quality of hardware here (is that a durango door handle or a town and country trunk latch?) I want to like this car, too bad.

    Not the Lincoln no no

    Any other suggestions?
  • mch2mch2 Posts: 36
    My vote would go to the Mercedes E. Right now I think it is the best looking car in this class.
  • karmikankarmikan Posts: 116
    E Class & A6, they just exude restraint, style and class. I seriously considered both earlier this year but the E39 matched them in design and handily beat them in driving dynamics

    If I was in the market now, I'd buy the E320. The appearance of the E60 would stop me at the showroom door. This isn't Bangle bashing, just personal taste.
  • joatmonjoatmon Posts: 315
    Well, maybe old E34 or E39. The old E28 and E34 M5s are a blast to drive.
  • zhangqjzhangqj Posts: 15
    The best looking car is a 2 or 3-year old E39 M5. Cost about the same with the new E60, much better looking and a hell of a car itself.
  • x021627x021627 Posts: 153
    i was waiting for the dealer to put my plates on my new '03 530 and they had a blue with tan interior 04 in front of the showroom door. I was looking at it from the back and thought of the new accord......hummmmm and for 52K.
  • tasillotasillo Posts: 51
    Stopped by my BMW dealer yesterday to eyeball the new 5 as a likely replacement for my '00 740iL. Three 530's in stock, drove the premium pkg/automatic w/Xenon's. About 51k. First impression, best driving car, ever!!! The new 6-speed automatic make great use of the 225 hp and for me makes the V-8 unnecessary. In 10 miles I was very impressed. But... I'm afraid BMW's continued use of I-Drive will eliminate BMW from future consideration. Any device that makes changing radio stations a mandate for pulling out the manual is absurd, in my book. I hated the new 7 for I-Drive as well as a cockpit that strayed too far from the driver oriented layout BMW had had for years. I thought the 5, with return to floor shift, etc., would allow me to overlook the I-Drive, but I can't.

    Guess I'll have to reconsider the new E-class and perhaps the Audi A6 4.2 for the same money. I'll miss you, BMW.
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Posts: 9,359
    ...... Don't feel bad, your not alone .. the new "7" has been sitting on the lot's now for longer than a BMW dealer will ever admit to (only the Accountant knows) .. it's not a good thing when these dealers are looking at 6/9 months of expensive inventory and not going anywhere in a big fat hurry .. and the ones that have been sold are sadly being traded down the street for other models, which means their re-sale is going Plop Plop and no Fiz Fiz ...

           Right now, the dealers are waiting, hoping with baited breath that the New "5" will be a BMW vehicle that actually sells .. I guess we will hafta to see and hope it's not traveling down the road of the new 745 .....

  • bjoyebjoye Posts: 35
    I drive an '01 Steel Blue 525i with black interior and it's gorgeous. But my wife and I both LOVE the new 7's and new 5's. If you hate the new style, then don't buy it. Whining about it isn't going to change the shape of the cars rolling off the line this year. If enough people don't buy it because of looks, then they'll change it. But if it's selling and you're complaining, I'm quite sure it won't change. So why keep on with it? Why not just go find a better car?
  • karmikankarmikan Posts: 116
    Take it easy tiger!

    This thread is called "BMW 5-Series 2004 Redesign", ergo the discussion is about the E60. Some like it, some don't but that's the point of the discussion. This thread will end soon enough when the subject becomes tired.
  • orienteoriente Posts: 44
    In case you have not noticed, Edmunds New Cars has posted the data.
    I hope BMW reconsiders and offers the items in the Sport Package as separate, individual options; I care about the Active Steering (provided it works as I think it does), but cant take any more Sport Suspensions or the silly run-flat monster tires, where the size is different for front/rear......just letting my frustration out!
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Now wait a minute......your post #475 was spoke like a true salesman...come up ridiculous things about other cars to make the 5 look good. Don't you know that by not ridiculously slamming the compeition you'll earn the respect needed to sell this new "radical" 5-Series? The crack about the E-Class' trunk latch and door handle was just a plain lack of knowledge about the competition on your part.

  • With so many ppl disliking the E60 styling, thought I'd throw this out: Recently I discovered the Pontiac G6 prototype, and it's hands-down one of the best-looking exterior designs I've ever seen in a mid-sized sedan. Should be available in Fall 2004, complete with supercharged V-6 and AWD. Might give the BMW 5-series a real run for its money, esspecially if the economy/job market deteriorates in 2004.
  • bmwsellerbmwseller Posts: 200
    when you sit in the back seat of the mushy-benz and look at the center console arrangement and the back of the seats it looks real Mopar to me. I opened the trunk of the mb and it felt like a cheap flimsy hard plastic piece that might pinch and the 'bimmer has a very smart rubber push pad that is definitely a better design.
    I don't "ridiculously slam" the competition when I have a client here at my center, but it's fun in a forum such as this.

    BMW should do OK against the pontiac. I think that the people who are truly potential buyers on a 5 will have the $$$ and drive right by every GM store when they are car shopping.
  • karmikankarmikan Posts: 116
    I haven't agreed with many of the things you have said on this forum and you definitely apply a sales slant to your posts. However, you are enthusiastic about your product, take the time to read and submit to these forums and you seem to be a "car guy". This is refreshing in an industry sadly lacking in these qualities IMO.

    Only time will tell if you're flogging a dead horse with the E60. Personally, I think that the E60 will be trumped by the E class MB, future Audis and others.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Speeds2much, good post. The G6 exterior gets high marks on my sheet also. BMW had better hitchhike onto this minimal, rough-hewn look that is definitely the trend in autos for the near future. We already see it in present models, namely the A4, A6, G35, Maxima, 350Z, Altima, CTS, XLR and many SUVs.

    I'm wondering if this look translates up to the larger, majestic sedans. However, I believe it works for the 3 and 5 series.

    Check it out here: - - - - - - - - 3-pontiac-g6.html
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Thats pure salesman-based rhetoric. I see a lot on Pontiac in the new 5 myself.

This discussion has been closed.