Acura TSX

ickes_mobile

With the debut of the new Accord being somewhat disappointing to those wanting something more sporting, there is still hope.

Honda will reportedly import the JDM/Euro Accord here as the Acura TSX. The TSX would replace the now deceased Integra sedan in the line-up. The JDM/Euro car is expected to debut at the September Paris Auto Show in September and be on sale in NA in 2003 as a 2004 model.

For more info and some early spy pics from various sources see:

http://community.webshots.com/album/44660418kfmeCu

bravedave

Is the TSX slated to be a replacement for the TL, or is it a replacement for the now defunct Integra four door? Since the Integra/RSX is based off the Civic platform, & the TL is based off the Accord, I would be suprised if they offered two similar vehicles off the same platform, unless the TL & RL are about to be taken up a notch or two.

machiavelli

From what I've seen/read, the TSX and the TL will co-exist. The TSX will be smaller than the current TL, probably only 4 cylinders, priced $24-28K - somewhat similar to the old 5 cylinder Vigor and 2.5TL. The '04 TL will still be priced around $29-32K. The question is - why would anyone want an RL when the TL is a better car for less money?

vocus

The car in the pics looks awfully large to be a replacement for the now-defunct Integra sedan. This looks more like a replacement for the TL series. I hope you all are right though, that it replaces the Integra sedan in the lineup. I really liked the last gen sedans alot, for someone who wants sport but needs room for more than 1 passenger.

1wiseguy

The RS-X is only offered as a coupe and the TL/CL offers a coupe or sedan. The TSX would fill the void and offer a smaller sedan for those who don't want the size or price of a TL. In canada we have the Acura 1.7EL sedan but it's really just a US Civic EX.

machiavelli

It's bigger than the old Integra sedan. Like I said above, it basically fills same position in the lineup as the old Vigor or the 2.5TL, not the Integra. Remember when Acura had both the 2.5TL and the 3.2TL? It will be priced between the RSX and the TL.

ickes_mobile

The UK mag has info from a Honda source saying the new car would be about the size of the current Euro Accord. This would make the TSX about the same length and width as the VW Passat. Or, about 1/2 a size smaller than the '02 or '03 NA Accord and sandwitched neatly between the Integra sedan and the Vigor/TL ranges.

verozahl

from Acura. Put that in your pipe and smoke it!
Now explain to me why you really really need to go to BMW?

robertsmx

Rumor is that European/JDM Accord will be imported as Acura TSX. This means... the car is smaller than the American Accord, and very likely, much sportier, especially if Honda decided to bring the sportiest trim (with features ofcourse).
In Europe, the rumored engine choices are,
2.0 liter I-4 160 HP (same as base RSX)
2.4 liter I-4 180 HP
2.4 liter I-4 250 HP (AWD gasoline-electric hybrid and ATR replacement?)
2.2 liter I-4 140 HP/245 lb.-ft Common rail turbo diesel (Honda's first in house diesel engine)

And no, this won't be the TL replacement.

shades80

4 door, compact sports sedan..coming in a few mos...its the saab 9-3 right..sounds like honda and saab want the same niche market(high output 4's)...now wouldnt this be the same market as the is 300? So if you are intersted in this car wouldnt an inline 6 with more power be superior? but nobody is buying the IS ..thoughts?

verozahl

I see new IS300s... but I won't be buying one. Too dang expensive! They should bring the Altezza over as the IS200 with a 2.0L I4. For the price of a IS300, I'm saving dimes to upgrade to a BMW 3-Series.

Acura TSX has a good chance, wouldn't you say, of taking this segment? I mean, just like how the RSX owns the sport coupe/fastback segment.

ickes_mobile

does seem overpriced. It's really small, even compared to the 3-series and A4. It's interior is also more Toyota than Lexus. The GS shows that Lexus can build a luxurious interior that is still sporting comparted against the LS and ES.

jjman

is that the TSX has as good if not better interior as the honda accord which now looks very luxurious. sitting in a honda should invoke much more emotion than before and will defintely be not be blah like a toyota

shades80

Well what about the new 9-3..isnt this the exact car the TSX is going against..except saab with be turbo so better low end torque...Honda has to turbo/super charge this engine to achieve the same torque as the saab...i think the smallest turbo on the saab will be 175hp/202torque...can honda match or beat that? ps...03 saab will have eliminated torque steer...per the reviews..

jjpcat

About 2 years ago, Lexus invited me to test drive IS300, together with BMW 328 and Audi A4 2.8 Quodro. IS300 is fast, has good brake, and handles well. But 328 is also good in those departments while it's more luxury and rides much better. I think 328 is well worth the extra $4-5k. A4, though quite luxury inside, is far from being a $30k+ sport sedan. Its engine was significantly weaker. Brake was mushy. And, its auto transmission sometime hesitated to downshift. Hope Audi fixed those problems with the new A4 3.0.

Before I went to that event, by looking at the spec, I was very upset by the small interior space of IS300 (especially for the back seats). But those numbers turned out to be very misleading. I know believe it's actually roomier than its 2 competitors. For example, while sitting at the back, my knees didn't touch the front seats.

bksward

Because I doubt the TSX is going to be rear wheel drive or have more than four cylinders...

Or any low end torque for that matter.

robertsmx

Well, we can draw conclusions about a car before it is driven (or for that matter, specs are revealed). Great. Now that answers my question about proliferation of internet in car buying decisions.

Don't forget, the current Accord Type-R engine (2.2 liter 212 HP) is a great engine, in a nice (and true) sport sedan. This car will be gone for a few months, and debut as 2004 model early next year. The article that provided a glimpse of the Euro Accord/TSX (link is in my earlier post) mentions the engine choices, and one of them (the likely candidate for next ATR) is...
2.4 liter, 250 HP engine.

There are only a few ways possible to get that kind of power output from the K24A. It has extremely long stroke (99 mm) so that would make it impossible to rev it to 8000 rpm or beyond to get that kind of power.
Or, Honda could choose to use turbo charging. Or, they may be developing a 2.4 liter six cylinder engine, which with shorter stroke could allow plenty of revs and 250 HP.

But, 250 HP from 2.4 sounds like an engine that was showcased in RDX concept last year. Essentially the K24A, powering the front wheels and pumping out 200 HP. The rear wheels had 25 HP electric motors each, taking the total power output to 250 HP. Now, that is a good possibility. And if that happens, we may be talking about a 250 HP @ 6500 rpm engine, with peak torque of 250-260 lb.-ft @ 2000 rpm, and 30-40 mpg around town mileage as well, as well as an AWD configuration in a sport sedan.

shades80

ok, you convinced me...that sounds great..hope they can keep it within $25-28k range..i dont think they can if built in Japan..Acura needs a small compact sports sedan..the tl-s is not a sports sedan..

dragonfire

Here is a news item from temple of vtec. It seems that the TSX is confirmed.

http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=27088

torque_r

The 2003 TL was released in February, which gave me the impression that Acura is preparing to launch a new TL next spring. Does this mean Acura will launch two all-new vehicles at the same time? Also the RL is long overdue, and it could be redesigned next year.

diploid

TSX
TL
RL
NSX

Even though the CL isn't due for a redesign, Honda has stated that if sales don't pick up, it may not continue producing them.

ickes_mobile

RSX
TSX
CL (unless its dead)
TL
RL
NSX

diploid

ickes- when you add RSX to the list, I'm assuming you mean the type-R? I was just listing the ones scheduled for a redesign.

ickes_mobile

I get it...

alexalee1

http://just-auto.com/news_detail.asp?art=38644&app=1&c=1

diploid

The 250bhp 2.4L Type-R.

alexalee1

Please note that Honda has not confirmed the Acura TSX themselves.

The TSX name trademark was filled on May 1, 2002, and currently it's not yet assigned to an examining attorney.

Serial # for this name is 76406701

People just extrapolate from word from Honda about introducing the Acura UD (Unique Design) next spring.

Most likely that the Euro Accord is what will become the Acura TSX is correct, I think, but, you'll never know.

diploid

Although when the RSX was still in secrecy, rumor had it that the Integra's new name would be the RS.

There is always a chance that it may not be called the TSX...but maybe something close.

torque_r

'SX is probably for sports coupes, while sedans will probably be TLX, RLX, and VLX or so.

alexalee1

None of the _LX badges has been tradermarked/registered. I highly doubt it.

Also, I think Acura goes to the wrong direction with their badges. The suffix SX or X seems to be redundant, and it doesn't mean anything.

After all, Mazda is eliminating the redundant 626 badge with just '6'.

With 3.2TL or 3.5RL, at least it tells the engine size and the series.

Now, they are back to the meaningless badges (NSX, MDX, RSX, and perhaps TSX). Isn't more brand recognition the reason of renaming the Legend to RL?

The X used to mean experimental or concept vehicles. 3.2TL used to be called TLX in auto shows, but MDX and NSX name remains to the production. Well, NSX used to be NS-X in auto shows.

ickes_mobile

at www.autoexpress.co.uk. Go to the news archive for Wednesday August 7, 2002. The story is near the bottom of the list.

The new car is set to debut at the Paris Auto Show in September. Honda benchmarked the BMW 3-Series and Audi A4 for performance and refinement. Engines include a 2.0l 150hp four, 2.4L four w/ about 200hp. and a common rail diesel.

It also suggests that the car will be larger than the outgoing one, which means its bigger than the 94-97 NA Accord.

ickes_mobile

http://waw.wardsauto.com/ar/auto_product/index.htm

ickes_mobile

http://community.webshots.com/photo/44660418/47181981ijDkpT

Kind of plain. Needs an infusion of the RSX "dymanic" style.

The full artical is here:

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/front_index.php?cp=1

diploid

I'm disappointed in the design. I was really hoping for it to resemble the grey drawing.

I'm sure it'll a great 4-cylinder sedan (I'm not ready to call it a sport sedan until further details), but it just looks too conservative.

I would've even enjoyed it if they placed RSX headlights on it.

swsms

If the TSX can match the handling characteristics of the previous Integra sedan, it will definitely be a true sport sedan from FWD perspective. I don't see it matching the performance of 330i because of the differences between FWD and RWD. There is something about rear wheels pushing you through a turn that cannot be duplicated/supplemented by a FWD vehicle.

I'm an Acura fan anyway so it doesn't matter if it can out-handle a 330i or not. I just know that cost of ownership will be less.

BTW, doesn't the S2000 have a 2.0L 240hp engine? That 2.4L 250hp sounds real good!

alexalee1

I am in love! Looks like the new 7.

I can't post the link due to the limitation of "can't post word with > 115 characters"

Please assemble yourself.


Edit 3 with 1 and 2 for the other 2 pictures.

http://www.startdomein.com/

autoscoops/images/

hondaaccordeuro3.jpg

ickes_mobile

in different locations? Looks kind of photoshopped, but the car is correct.

Overall, it looks sharp, if the front is a little dull. The boot and rear seat look like they could be small, so no real crossover with the NA Accord sedan. Can't wait for more details.

Nice Merc A-Class behind the car in the second pic and I love the blacked out sheep faces.

rihoops

Any chance of a hatchback version?

ickes_mobile

The first AutoExpress artical about the JDM/European Accord (with pics from testing at the 'Ring) said that no hatch will be offered. Honda believes that the hatch version, although the biggest UK seller, positions the car downmarket from German cars such as the Passat. As such, instead of a hatchback, an estate version will be offered with a slightly longer wheelbase. There are some spy pics and photoshop photos showing the wagon and the Auto Express artical here:

http://community.webshots.com/album/44660418kfmeCu

dudleyr

I really like that wagon in the above pics. I have always liked hatches over sedans because of the utility, but wagons are better still. I hope they bring it over.

rihoops

I might go for the wagon too

edberg_dc

This is from the vtec.net message board, follow the link to the pics.

http://www.arborwood.com/awforums/show-topic-1.php?start=1&fid=4709&taid=53&topid=262&ut=1029778046

is it me or does the back look like the previous generation Eclipse?

mariobros100

Here's the "Official sketch":

http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=33601

(By the way the sketch looks better that the spy pictures we've already seen).

diploid

Sheesh...talk about bait and switch.

regfootball

thing won't be that zoomy looking when its the US.

ickes_mobile

of the European Accord:

http://community.webshots.com/album/44660418kfmeCuTID=118&page=2

I'm surprised that the dash board is the same as the NA Accord. Would have figured the Euro Accord to be much narrower. Good sign for shoulder room. I wonder about rear leg room and trunk space however...

heisnstein

The URL does not work. Did you mean the pictures at this URL?

http://www.goonish.com/atenza/read.php?TID=118&page=2

I'm not sure what authority has these as official but, if they are, it looks like the "grey" sketches at MT and the German mag have finally bit the dust.

ickes_mobile

himiler

A couple of pics, too. Not bad looking, too bad about the FWD, though. It's obviously not the IS300 or 3-Series killer they could've built, but I'd bet it's still going to sell like crazy.

diploid

I think it will, too. It really isn't as aggressive looking as the other Acura cars though(and they've been labeled as being bland), and those taillights look as if the designers didn't even care what the end would look like.

swsms

Based on the 2.4L 180hp and 2.4L 220hp Type-S engines that will be available (see beta.vtec.net/news), the TSX will be able to compete against the 325i, IS 300, S60, and A4. I don't expect it's handling to be at par with the 325i or IS300, but it will certainly fall in to the middle of this pack of vehicles just fine.

I just hope Acura will offer a 5MT and 17s on the non-Type S model. According to the model matrix on vtec.net, a 6MT will be offered with Type S model.