I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today!

sda

ab348 said:

andre1969 said:

sda said:

I liked the styling of that version of the Mirada and Cordoba. With the top up I wonder if it has a chunky look?

Here's a Cordoba with the top up...


Not the most graceful thing in the world, but it most looks like it kept the roof proportioning of the fixed-roof model. Just the lack of quarter windows in the back makes it look off, to me. And it's a lot better than some aftermarket convertibles I've seen.

The early LeBaron convertibles did a similar thing with the top and eliminated the rear quarter windows. I remember someone saying it looked like a Conestoga wagon.

The optional Mark Cross leather interior in those was quite nice. I came close to buying an 84 Dodge 400 convertible with the Mitsubishi 2.6. I actually gave a deposit on it, had a sleepless night and then backed out. I got my deposit back. That is the only time I’ve done that.

kyfdx

VW show, today

kyfdx

Window sticker for a ‘63 Beetle

kyfdx

Passed this one on the way to the show

kyfdx

A couple of very rare Audis

uplanderguy

Those early K-car convertibles with no quarter windows used to make me think of Columbo’s Peugeot.

andre1969

uplanderguy said:

Those early K-car convertibles with no quarter windows used to make me think of Columbo’s Peugeot.

Funny you'd say that; I recently took up watching old "Columbo" episodes. I was watching an episode the other day where he had to give a driving instructor a ride, and the guy was harping on him to put on his seatbelt and Columbo was like "Seatbelt? What seatbelt?"

As for those LeBaron convertibles, I believe the models with no quarter windows were built aftermarket, by ASC or something like that, while the ones with the quarter window were done in-house by Chrysler. I've heard that the ones Chrysler did themselves were actually pretty well-built when it came to body integrity. It's been ages since I've ridden in one though. After getting used to better-built cars, the truth might not match up with my memory!

ab348

andre1969 said:

As for those LeBaron convertibles, I believe the models with no quarter windows were built aftermarket, by ASC or something like that, while the ones with the quarter window were done in-house by Chrysler. I've heard that the ones Chrysler did themselves were actually pretty well-built when it came to body integrity. It's been ages since I've ridden in one though. After getting used to better-built cars, the truth might not match up with my memory!

Not really surprising. A convertible conversion by a 3rd party is always going to be a bit of a hack job. If you are engineering a convertible structure from scratch the way a manufacturer would, it is virtually guaranteed to be stiffer and better-built.

It would be a very well-engineered convertible that was as good in terms of body stiffness as the closed model it was based upon though. My only experience was when I had my '64 Skylark convertible. Despite its boxed frame and other body reinforcements, you could still get cowl shake on certain types of roads.

uplanderguy

Those K-car convertibles always came with a not-desirable "persona" to me, based largely on these things in my memory:

1) George Costanza's car
2) Rental car in "Planes, Trains, and Automobiles"
3) 30-ish guy from my hometown was the very first $1 Million winner in the sweepstakes that Ed McMahon was associated with. The guy seemed like a friendly [non-permissible content removed], cheesy moustache, worked at the Murphy's store on the outskirts, and lived with his mother. First thing he bought was a new woodgrained LeBaron convertible.

How many model names did Chrysler end up using for the K-Car and stretched variants? I can come up with:

1) Aries
2) Reliant
3) 400
4) 600
5) Caravelle
6) New Yorker
7) Imperial

uplanderguy

Sheesh, the word ending in 'ck' and beginning with 'schmu' was censored above. Wow.

ab348

uplanderguy said:

Sheesh, the word ending in 'ck' and beginning with 'schmu' was censored above. Wow.

We'll have none of that kind of profanity in here, young man!

andre1969

Lessee, if you want to count everything that was K-based, here's what I can come up with:

Plymouth:
Reliant
Caravelle
Sundance
Acclaim
Voyager

Dodge:
Aries
400
600
Daytona
Shadow
Spirit
Lancer
Dynasty
Caravan

Chrysler:
LeBaron (the 400 clone)
E-Class
New Yorker (the 600/E-class/Caravelle style)
Laser
LeBaron sedan (the Acclaim/Spirit version)
LeBaron Coupe/Convertible (the aero '87+ style)
New Yorker (the Dynasty style)
New Yorker Salon (a cheaper trim level; some years it had exposed headlights like the Dynasty)
5th Avenue
Imperial
Town & Country.

Somehow, I have a feeling I'm missing something. And I don't know how appropriate it really is to throw the minivans on this list. I've always heard they were somewhat based on the K-car. I guess perhaps in the same way that a Highlander is based on a Camry? (or at least, was, in earlier generations?)

As for censoring, it's amazing the stuff that that gets caught nowadays...

sda

Chrysler really maximized the product mix with the K platform. Though the 87-95 LeBaron convertible platform was engineered by Chrysler and not a conversion company, my 92 GTC convertible had a lot of chassis flex and cowl shake, though it didn’t rattle or squeak and didn’t leak water.

benjaminh

kyfdx said:

Window sticker for a ‘63 Beetle

texases

Sounds about right.

tjc78

Only one I can think of that is missing is the Chrysler TC (by Maserati).

I think there were also some Mexico only names (Dart and Volare)

uplanderguy

I had only listed the cars that were visibly based on the "K"--same wheel openings, basic instrument panel, etc. I did forget the 'E-Class' and 'Town and Country', although I think I goofed on 'Imperial', which I'm thinking was based on the Dynasty.

andre1969

On one hand that VW seems cheap, but then on the other, in inflation-adjusted dollars, it was another ~$192 if you wanted to make the rear windows flip open? And white wall tires were a ~$240 upgrade over blackwalls?!

andre1969

uplanderguy said:

I had only listed the cars that were visibly based on the "K"--same wheel openings, basic instrument panel, etc. I did forget the 'E-Class' and 'Town and Country', although I think I goofed on 'Imperial', which I'm thinking was based on the Dynasty.

Oh, if you were going on that basis, I think you got them all except the E-Class on the first round. I had actually forgotten about that version of "Town and Country". I was thinking the minivan, but that was also what they called the LeBaron wagon.

uplanderguy

The 'woody' LeBaron convertible was also a "Town & Country"

stickguy

Here’s one for Uplander.

uplanderguy

Those '59 and '60 Larks sold well, as they 'scooped' the Big Three a little bit, and were available in V8 right out of the box, and a convertible for '60 appeared, exclusive in that size as well. Studebaker made its greatest profit in its 107-year history in '59, on the Lark, and in '60 no Hawks were built until February, to maximize Lark production.

I prefer the '62 and later styling, but I can see why these sold well. They mentioned the almost 'cab forward' concept of the wheel placement, and Hawks were like that too.

Simple styling, but roomy interior and 15-inch wheels.

lemko1968

1957 Studebaker Golden Hawk:

uplanderguy

The earlier fog lights ham it up, but otherwise a very, very authentic-looking Stude!

Posting Stude comment on this page used to be nearly-verboten when a certain moderator was here. It took a while for him to admit it, but his father used to work for Packard during the fifties. That explained volumes, LOL.

andre1969

Even if Packard had never gotten involved with Studebaker, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have been around much longer. That 1951 body was still somewhat passable in '55-56, thanks to the wraparound windshield, but the high beltline and somewhat tall overall height betrayed it as being an older design. I've also heard that the V8 wasn't as durable as the old straight-eight had been...but trying to sell a straight-eight in the later part of the '50s was like trying to sell long underwear to a nudist colony.

If they had kept that old '56 body in '57, it would have been slaughtered I'm sure by the competition...although I have a feeling it might have still sold better than what we did get for '57, as there may have still been a few die-hard Packard fans, as well as people who were older, more conservative, etc. But, then the '57-58 recession and its aftermath would have killed them pretty quick, I'm sure, unless they could have come out with something substantially new.

Oh well, at least they never tried to graft quad headlights on a '56 style Packard body. I shudder to think what the outcome of that would have been!

On the flip side though, supposedly Studebaker was in some serious financial problems at the time of the merger. So even though they were ultimately doomed to die, I wonder if the Packard merger at least helped put them on life support for a bit longer.

ab348

Packard did build a rolling mock-up of a proposed '57. Here is "Black Bess":




More here: https://www.curbsideclassic.com/blog/forgotten-future/cc-forgotten-future-1957-packard/

andre1969

Thanks for that link, AB348. Lots of interesting stuff there.

One of those mockups, at a quick glance, makes me think of a '58 Windsor getting the Edsel treatment...

Here's the Windsor, for comparison...


I think the writer is correct, that it wouldn't have been enough to save Packard, but it still would have been interesting. If not the most beautiful thing in the world. And let's face it, by '58 standards, I don't think it's TOO horrible!

uplanderguy

Those last Packard prototypes remind me of a '58 Mercury, mostly in the front wheel opening being rather low.

Packard's president, James Nance, went on to run the Mercury-Edsel-Lincoln division, where he was fired in 1960.

Some Packard dealers that weren't dualled with Studebaker (I believe most were), went with Edsel, the convenient lifeboat of opportunity at the time. Amazingly, they'd have been better off to get Studebaker and most would've done well at least in the '59-60 years.

I believe Packard gained dealers with the Studebaker purchase, more than the other way around. I'm personally aware of two '56 Caribbeans, a $6K very low-production car, that were sold new by dealers that had been exclusively Studebaker until the '55 model year.

explorerx4

Went to a Porsche car show with a friend of mine this morning at the local polo grounds.
Over 100 cars, so we were there for a couple of hours.
Don't go to a lot of shows, so I didn't take all the pictures I should have, but here are a few.
Modified 1885 930.

A couple of nice 356's. Surprised how much I liked them.

Electric Taycan

Super low miles(4 or 5k) 1987(?) 911 3.2 Club Sport

andre1969

I think Porsche really has a knack for making vehicles that most people would never in a million years associate with a Porsche...such as a sedan, crossover, etc., and somehow, the result tends to come off pretty sexy looking. I'm kinda digging that Taycan thingie. I've never heard of it, but from that angle at least, I find it alluring.

stickguy

I saw a bunch of Taycans at the Porsche dealer not long ago. A lot bigger than I expected. Pretty much looked like a Panamera though.

explorerx4

Just be ready to fork over a couple hundred k.

tjc78

The wheels on the Taycan are just awful. Incredible color though. I bet they charge $1000 or more for that.

texases

@tjc78 said:
The wheels on the Taycan are just awful. Incredible color though. I bet they charge $1000 or more for that.

There was a recent post on just that subject:
https://jalopnik.com/reinventing-the-wheel-for-the-ev-age-1847777184

stickguy

those Audi wheels are just awful IMO

andre1969

Well today was a banner day, of sorts. I got the DeSoto started up, and out of its old garage for the last time, in preparation of getting it over to the new place...



More to come

stickguy

Runs good. But time for a paint job!

ab348

Our friend Adam on YouTube posted his review of Syd Mead's '72 Imperial which he purchased from the futurist shortly before his death:



I always loved the look of these, especially the front end.

andre1969

I always liked these fuselage Imperials, too. I prefer the '69-71, which seems a bit trimmer. The '72-73 is chunked up a bit, but still attractive.

fintail

The prior owner of that Imperial is interesting. He named it "Fabulon".

I am at my mom's now, one of those boomer channels that airs old shows all day is on in the background. Just saw Leave it to Beaver, Ward was driving this incredibly rare thing:

uplanderguy

The car that Lexus cribbed front-end styling from!

fintail

Yep:

andre1969

It's funny how tastes can change over the years. I used to think the '61 Plymouth was one of the most hideous looking cars around. But, I think the first time I really became aware of them, was around Christmas of '85. My Mom bought me one of those Consumer Guide auto books, "The Complete History of the Chrysler Corporation" and I remember just how hideous it looked. The authors themselves even made a comment about how it "sparked an entire generation of Japanese movie monsters."

And, in the context of the era where the Taurus/Sable had just come out, and those were considered revolutionary at the time, the '61 Plymouth seemed like it was really out there. But then, it seems to me that cars like the Isuzu Vehicross, Pontiac Aztek, etc, ushered in a whole new era where almost anything goes. So now, when I look at a '61 Plymouth, from a 2021 perspective rather than a mid-80's, it suddenly doesn't seem so bad.

ab348

I don't hate the '61 Plymouth. 1961 was a strange year at Chrysler design-wise and it wasn't just the Plymouth that was out there. There was the sad-faced Dodge and the canted-headlight Chrysler. They were up against the fairly clean '61 GM line and the somewhat rounded and puffy '61 Ford and Mercury. So the Big Three had all buyer tastes covered.

Ward's car is truly rare, probably even when it was new. It looks good in profile.

andre1969

I just looked it up out of curiosity. The hardtop sedan for '61 was only available in the Fury line, and sold 8,507 units. So yeah, a pretty rare car, indeed. For comparison, Ford built 30,342 Galaxie Victoria hardtop sedans. My old car book doesn't break out Chevy production in that much detail; it just says 330,000 Bel Airs and 426,400 Impalas, total. They rounded to the nearest 100. Also, Chevy offered a 4-door hardtop in both the Bel Air and the Impala range that year. I also have a feeling the Dart Phoenix 4-door hardtop outsold it too. Again, my book doesn't go into that much detail for Dodge production that year, but I think the Dart lineup outsold the full-sized Plymouth lineup for '61. I know it did in '60. However, because Plymouth had the Valiant, as a whole, it still outsold Dodge.

I always thought that, when it came to style at least, Chevy did a good job at catering to more youthful, sporty buyers, whereas the Ford had a more conservative, yet tasteful air about it. And that didn't leave much left for Plymouth, although in those days buyers were more brand-loyal than they are today, so perhaps the Mopar faithful kept to it? And I'm sure there's some people out that did like its off-the-wall styling.

sda

While we wait for a replacement wheel for the TL, a story for later but not bad, my daughter has been driving the Passat. As she has only driven the Q5 once and has never driven the Passat I had some small reservations. I gave her some tips on how it has a different feel than the TL such as braking response, steering effort, etc. The first thing she did was connect Apple Car Play. Without any assistance as I am essentially bed bound with my broken leg, she paired it quickly went on her way. She came back from class today saying the audio in the car ‘rocked’ and really liked driving it. My wife even mentioned how good the audio sounded when she drove it last week just to keep it alive until I am able to resume driving. That really surprised me as it is only the base audio system and is not the ELS in the TL or B&O in the Q5.

Forgive me, I meant to post in Cars and Conversations. On the IPad I don’t know how to cut and paste.

stickguy

I did it for you since you are incapacitated!

on the iPad, just press and hold someplace in the text you want, and it should turn blue with slider dot lines on either end. You can drag those each direction to get the text you want, then tap again and the cut/copy selection bar pops up. hit one of those, then go to the new page, tap in the comment box, and select paste.

FYI, I just did this from memory, so if it isn't right, you don't have to pay the bill.

ab348

Stick, what you say is accurate, but I find it works about as consistently as the voice commands in my Caddy’s CUE system, which is to say, not very well. I find the iPad’s editing functions can be pretty frustrating.

sda

stickguy said:

I did it for you since you are incapacitated!

on the iPad, just press and hold someplace in the text you want, and it should turn blue with slider dot lines on either end. You can drag those each direction to get the text you want, then tap again and the cut/copy selection bar pops up. hit one of those, then go to the new page, tap in the comment box, and select paste.

FYI, I just did this from memory, so if it isn't right, you don't have to pay the bill.

Many thanks. I generally have my Surface available where I can easily cut and paste. My IPad I use for mainly surfing and easy stuff.

fintail

61 Plymouth and Dodge are Exner weird to me, more wacky than repulsive, but I like the 61 Chrysler - the headlights are cool and that year has great fins. Probably a bit passe by 61, as the big 2 were quickly racing into 60s modern style while the Chrysler seemed to be a piece of 1959, but it has the look.

I remember when I was a kid in the late 80s and 90s, there was a little old lady in town (same town I am visiting now) who drove a 61 NYer 4 door post, white, very good original condition. Even then she and it were a real sight, as I remember her being pretty small in such a big car. Maybe a little less than 10 years ago, I went to an estate sale in town, and the car was there. I didn't ask about it, but it still looked to be in sound condition.

andre1969 said:

I just looked it up out of curiosity. The hardtop sedan for '61 was only available in the Fury line, and sold 8,507 units. So yeah, a pretty rare car, indeed. For comparison, Ford built 30,342 Galaxie Victoria hardtop sedans. My old car book doesn't break out Chevy production in that much detail; it just says 330,000 Bel Airs and 426,400 Impalas, total. They rounded to the nearest 100. Also, Chevy offered a 4-door hardtop in both the Bel Air and the Impala range that year. I also have a feeling the Dart Phoenix 4-door hardtop outsold it too. Again, my book doesn't go into that much detail for Dodge production that year, but I think the Dart lineup outsold the full-sized Plymouth lineup for '61. I know it did in '60. However, because Plymouth had the Valiant, as a whole, it still outsold Dodge.

I always thought that, when it came to style at least, Chevy did a good job at catering to more youthful, sporty buyers, whereas the Ford had a more conservative, yet tasteful air about it. And that didn't leave much left for Plymouth, although in those days buyers were more brand-loyal than they are today, so perhaps the Mopar faithful kept to it? And I'm sure there's some people out that did like its off-the-wall styling.