I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today!

tjc78

Don’t forget Skylar’s Wagoneer in Breaking Bad

stickguy

my SIL had an early Gen 1 Sable wagon. Burgundy 2 tone with fancy wheels and the rear facing 3rd seat She called it big red. I drove it once or twice and it was not bad for the day. She kept it a long time and it pretty much fell apart around her, and eventually got dumped for a 1999ish Odyssey. Big improvement.

xwesx

I was thinking that the rental we had in May 2016 was also an Impala, but it was a Malibu. Styling was very similar on the two, with the Imapala perhaps having a more formalized (versus sleek) appearance.

fintail said:

I bet you can have a car shipped for 1000-1500 at most. Not pocket change, but maybe something to negotiate - even in this market, a large traditional sedan probably isn't a fast mover. Interesting ad, an LT - which I associate with rental spec, but with leather and heated steering wheel.

On the Impala subject, I had this early run car as a rental in November of 2013 (time flies!) - it was loaded - leather, pano, etc:

uplanderguy

It's funny that Brooks Stevens did both the Wagoneer and Wagonaire for the '63 model year.

He was known as "Kip" around South Bend.

Funny we're discussing his name--on Studebaker pages, and from the South Bend/Mishawaka newspaper last week, a guy from South Bend who bought Brooks Stevens' triple-black '64 Gran Turismo Hawk from his estate--Stevens had had it from new--donated the car to the Studebaker National Museum very recently.

I wasn't there, but I read that Stevens was the guest speaker at the 1994 (I think) international meet in Minnesota. He was in a wheelchair, came out to applause, and said "Where were all of you in 1964?!".

He said then that "The closure of South Bend was such a nightmare to me".

The guy who donated the car, got hired at Studebaker at age 18 in 1963 and considers himself one of the youngest employees of Studebaker at South Bend while the plant still operated.

I heard him give a talk once at the museum. Very animated fellow. He was working in the mail room of the Administration Building and said his boss came in and said "Mr. Egbert (president) needs a ride out to the Proving Ground" (15 miles away). The guy said, "He did not say one single word to me the entire drive". Although, I can imagine all the stuff on Egbert's mind by that time.

uplanderguy

RE.: Impala--I always thought that 'dip' in the rear quarter was paying homage to the 'hips' on the quarters in the '65-68 cars. Or not.

Looking at a couple Malibu LT's, new, yesterday, showed me something I thought was mildly interesting and I'm guessing a result of supply chain issues.

Both had a $50 credit on the stickers for "Credit--no heated front seats". And one had another $50 credit for having 16 inch wheels and tires, the wheels being those I remember from previous (and possibly current, I don't know and not that interested to find out), LS models. A guy told me once he liked the 16 inch wheels and tires as he felt there was less road/tire noise than the 17 inch setup. But the 17's sure look nicer/more substantial.

What gets me is, you know if the heated seats and those bigger tires and wheels were optional, they'd be a hell of a lot more than the $50 retail credit they're passing onto the consumer for the LT's not having them, LOL.

sda

uplanderguy said:

RE.: Impala--I always thought that 'dip' in the rear quarter was paying homage to the 'hips' on the quarters in the '65-68 cars. Or not.

Looking at a couple Malibu LT's, new, yesterday, showed me something I thought was mildly interesting and I'm guessing a result of supply chain issues.

Both had a $50 credit on the stickers for "Credit--no heated front seats". And one had another $50 credit for having 16 inch wheels and tires, the wheels being those I remember from previous (and possibly current, I don't know and not that interested to find out), LS models. A guy told me once he liked the 16 inch wheels and tires as he felt there was less road/tire noise than the 17 inch setup. But the 17's sure look nicer/more substantial.

What gets me is, you know if the heated seats and those bigger tires and wheels were optional, they'd be a hell of a lot more than the $50 retail credit they're passing onto the consumer for the LT's not having them, LOL.

Were the Malibus 2022s? I thought Malibu production was put on hold about last February or so and hadn’t resumed. I agree there should be more credit than $50 for not including heated seats or other significant features. Probably $500 for heated seats as that is probably what they’d charge if it was offered as a stand alone option. Beware new Malibus have a CVT not a conventional multi speed transmission.

uplanderguy

Yes, both were 2022-model year Malibus.

I'm enamored with the Impala; not very much with the Malibu.

tjc78

I had a 2012 LaCrosse. It was a nice ride. I do remember test driving a few different trim levels and you really needed the PIII or Touring with the HiPer Struts. That made torque steer non existent with the V6.

explorerx4

I was surprised to see a new Malibu on a carrier on our trip back home just before the New Year.

fintail

I'd want a bit more than $50 for no heated seats! I know those can be done aftermarket, I'd at least want the same as what it would cost to install an aftermarket unit. I've read there are MBs shipping without certain electronics too (I think the hands free trunk/rear gate is one issue), but not sure about credits, I could see MB saying "deal with it" )

MB W212 E-class, pre-facelift, has "hips", these were said to be a homage to the Pontons:

uplanderguy said:

RE.: Impala--I always thought that 'dip' in the rear quarter was paying homage to the 'hips' on the quarters in the '65-68 cars. Or not.

Looking at a couple Malibu LT's, new, yesterday, showed me something I thought was mildly interesting and I'm guessing a result of supply chain issues.

Both had a $50 credit on the stickers for "Credit--no heated front seats". And one had another $50 credit for having 16 inch wheels and tires, the wheels being those I remember from previous (and possibly current, I don't know and not that interested to find out), LS models. A guy told me once he liked the 16 inch wheels and tires as he felt there was less road/tire noise than the 17 inch setup. But the 17's sure look nicer/more substantial.

What gets me is, you know if the heated seats and those bigger tires and wheels were optional, they'd be a hell of a lot more than the $50 retail credit they're passing onto the consumer for the LT's not having them, LOL.

roadburner

My son rented an Impala when he met me in Greenville, SC for the BMW CCA Foundation's "Legends of the Autobahn" exhibit back in 2018. It was a very nice cruiser.

explorerx4

I've seen some stickers where Ford is giving a $50 credit for 'Deleted Start/Stop'.
Some would see that as found money.

roadburner

BMW credits $275 for deleting the passenger seat width and lumbar adjustments- and $300 is credited for deleting the SXM tuner.
A $50 credit for deleting heated seats? I'd tell them to stuff it.

stickguy

my wife would not be happy if I told her I saved some money by deleting some features that she wanted.

so of course, I would just not tell her.

sda

roadburner said:

BMW credits $275 for deleting the passenger seat width and lumbar adjustments- and $300 is credited for deleting the SXM tuner.
A $50 credit for deleting heated seats? I'd tell them to stuff it.

I discovered on the window sticker GM would retrofit/enable the heated seats later, apparently all equipment is there except the chip.

tjc78

That makes sense as I’d wager there aren’t leather seats that don’t have the heating elements already installed. In other words you probably were never able to order leather without the heated seat option.

uplanderguy

I discovered on the window sticker GM would retrofit/enable the heated seats later, apparently all equipment is there except the chip.

I'm assuming this is on a sticker where you did not see the $50 credit?

RE.: Start/stop--I just saw on an Equinox forum that the '22 has an on/off switch for it, first time ever. Frankly, after driving one for a week I don't even notice it.

andre1969

I only had one car with heated seats, my 2000 Park Avenue. I can live without them, but if I'm going to take a car that had them deleted, I'm going to want more than a $50 credit!

Those heated seats were really nice, though. In those days, I only worked about 2.5 miles from home, so the car's heater was usually just starting to blow warm air by the time I pulled into the parking lot. But the heated seats got me comfy almost immediately.

ab348

The heated seats on the ATS are on automatically when you start up in cold* weather. The heated steering wheel is always controlled by a switch however.

*I don't know the temp they define as cold to make them automatically come on.

uplanderguy

Our Equinox has heated seats. You turn it on manually to one of three levels. I have to say I like them. I've lived through forty years of new Chevys without it, so I could live without it now, but it is a small nicetie. Never had a car with heated wheel. I laugh at some of the stuff; seems so 'frou-frou', LOL.

I'd gladly give up all the gadgetry to get a vehicle with as little road and tire noise as even my base-model 2008 Cobalt had. All about weight reduction now I believe. That car also had useful stuff like a hood without a prop rod, and little shock absorbers that held the decklid open, instead of big gooseneck hinges.

When we bought our Equinox, Consumer Reports listed 'quiet' as an attribute. In the back seat, it strikes me as the noisiest vehicle I've ever bought new. Road noise. It's like there's almost no insulation.

tjc78

@ab348 said:
The heated seats on the ATS are on automatically when you start up in cold* weather. The heated steering wheel is always controlled by a switch however.

*I don't know the temp they define as cold to make them automatically come on.

That’s strange all three of our Buicks turned the steering wheel on too via remote start. Wonder why the Caddy is different.

stickguy

one thing the Maverick does not have is heated seats. so since they are vinyl I have to suck it up occasionally until the cabin warms up. I think I can survive it. The hybrid I ordered will have heated seats and steering wheel, though cloth seats, and I really don't think heated seats matter with the cloth.

sda

stickguy said:

one thing the Maverick does not have is heated seats. so since they are vinyl I have to suck it up occasionally until the cabin warms up. I think I can survive it. The hybrid I ordered will have heated seats and steering wheel, though cloth seats, and I really don't think heated seats matter with the cloth.

I thought heated seats was standard on the Lariat. I guess you have to order the luxury package for those.

imidazol97

tjc78 said:

@ab348 said:

The heated seats on the ATS are on automatically when you start up in cold* weather. The heated steering wheel is always controlled by a switch however.

*I don't know the temp they define as cold to make them automatically come on.

That’s strange all three of our Buicks turned the steering wheel on too via remote start. Wonder why the Caddy is different.

tjc78 said:

@ab348 said:

The heated seats on the ATS are on automatically when you start up in cold* weather. The heated steering wheel is always controlled by a switch however.

*I don't know the temp they define as cold to make them automatically come on.

That’s strange all three of our Buicks turned the steering wheel on too via remote start. Wonder why the Caddy is different.

Is the steering wheel heating controlled by "configuration" in the setup? On the Cruze and the Malibu the heated seats being turned on with remote start (at whatever is the trigger temp) is selectable in Configuration. I believe the heated rear window is always turned on. I'll have to look in configuration the
next time I get the Malibu out.

fintail

I used to laugh at heated seats and wheel too, until I experienced them.

I've had the seats for years in MBs (I think MB started with the feature in the 80s), wheel was in a Jeep rental - was pleased to have the option in the wagon. Very nice when it's 15F out.

I think road noise is also a function of runflat tires.

uplanderguy said:

Our Equinox has heated seats. You turn it on manually to one of three levels. I have to say I like them. I've lived through forty years of new Chevys without it, so I could live without it now, but it is a small nicetie. Never had a car with heated wheel. I laugh at some of the stuff; seems so 'frou-frou', LOL.

I'd gladly give up all the gadgetry to get a vehicle with as little road and tire noise as even my base-model 2008 Cobalt had. All about weight reduction now I believe. That car also had useful stuff like a hood without a prop rod, and little shock absorbers that held the decklid open, instead of big gooseneck hinges.

When we bought our Equinox, Consumer Reports listed 'quiet' as an attribute. In the back seat, it strikes me as the noisiest vehicle I've ever bought new. Road noise. It's like there's almost no insulation.

kyfdx

I have heated cloth seats in the GTI. Nice!

imidazol97

Tire noise...
The car can be optimized for a quiet tire and various quieting techniques on door seals
and floor layers, but when one goes to a different rim size and tire size on various upscale
models and options, the tire character changes and I believe we get noisier tires with
the higher quality.

With the higher performance capability comes noisier treads. I don't know if that applies to
the sticky rubber in summer tires or not.

I know that my Michelins always are noisier than the original equipment tires
they replaced.

Michaell

kyfdx said:

I have heated cloth seats in the GTI. Nice!

Both my Elantra GT and the Jetta had heated cloth seats.

Would love a heated steering wheel, now that winter is upon us.

roadburner

My first car with heated seats was my 1988 M6. The 1993 Pathfinder also had them but they were worthless. My first car with a heated wheel was a 1997 528i.
Some newer BMWs allow you to pick a temperature where the seats and wheel automatically activate- a feature cribbed from Dodge.

ab348

A former co-worker had an Elantra with heated cloth seats that managed to actually singe the pants he was wearing one day but apparently not the upholstery. His GF was in the passenger seat and said she smelled something burning. It was him. He showed me the pants one day when he brought them into the office to take them to the dealer to complain in hopes of getting reimbursed. I think he got some cash eventually.

explorerx4

I only leave the seated steering wheel on for a minute or so and the heated seat on for max 5 minutes.

uplanderguy

Our Equinox's heated seats turn themselves off after a period.

fintail

The wagon has 3 heat settings, which operate in stages - hottest runs for 10-15 mins, then middle, then lowest, then switches off. I like the hottest setting. A frivolity, but I think the tech is generally reliable, and it is a comfort in cold climates. It also has heated door armrests and center console lid.

tjc78

My 17 Elantra had heated seats with cloth. They got too hot IMO. Wife said that was the best feature of the car lol.

uplanderguy

ab348 won't care for it as it's black-on-black, but if I won the Powerball this would be my first purchase. Funny, I don't care for C2's, especially '63's, but I am in love/lust with '62's. I know, outdated, blah blah, but nothing says 'Route 66' to me nearly as much. Absolutely my favorite old car outside of a handful of particular Studebakers.

https://www.corvetteforum.com/articles/the-last-c1-corvette-lived-with-one-owner-for-50-years/?fbclid=IwAR14N2oRipWEXCLo2-PkeIpV3JXE0dt3-5mSwQEODjhZKUeOt2dacxoc1Rk

stickguy

agreed that the color is unfortunate, but that is a snazzy looking car.

Michaell

uplanderguy said:

ab348 won't care for it as it's black-on-black, but if I won the Powerball this would be my first purchase. Funny, I don't care for C2's, especially '63's, but I am in love/lust with '62's. I know, outdated, blah blah, but nothing says 'Route 66' to me nearly as much. Absolutely my favorite old car outside of a handful of particular Studebakers.

https://www.corvetteforum.com/articles/the-last-c1-corvette-lived-with-one-owner-for-50-years/?fbclid=IwAR14N2oRipWEXCLo2-PkeIpV3JXE0dt3-5mSwQEODjhZKUeOt2dacxoc1Rk

I've probably mentioned this before, but a good friend of my dad's won a small lottery in CA back in the 90's.

Tooks some of the winnings and bought a C2 Corvette ... got a personalized plate that described both the car and how he acquired it:

6TWON

explorerx4

Here we are in a 59 that belongs to a friend.
Neighborhood might look familiar to RCC fans.

uplanderguy

Interesting 'Curbside Classics' about Consumer Reports reliability charts:

https://www.curbsideclassic.com/blog/history/consumer-reports-automotive-dot-charts-every-dot-has-a-story/#more-427322

I liked their ratings back-in-the-day better than now. They'd differentiate engine types for a model, and transmissions when I think back. Now, they list a 2016 Cruze Limited and Gen 2 Cruze, with 1.8 or 1.4 engines, automatic or stick, all in one column. The only similarity is the name 'Cruze'.

Although, the old way brings sample error things to the front; e.g, '59 Lark sixes have more body rust than V8's, LOL.

These are interesting to look at for sure.

As today for me, if I don't want/like the car, the reliability rating doesn't mean much.

'57 and '58 Studebakers were more reliable apparently, but I'd still take most Larks over them any day of the week, LOL.

andre1969

I'm surprised they had enough responses for the 1957 Nash, Packard, and Hudson to even publish any reliability data!

I used to have a 1984 Consumer Reports auto issue, and I can remember a lot of "insufficient" data columns for Mopar around 1979-81. At least, if any reliability data for the R-body was ever published, its eluded my memory.

It's interesting looking at Mopar for 1957, that as you moved up through the ranks...Plymouth, Dodge, DeSoto, Chrysler, Imperial, the cars actually seemed better-built for the most part. It's odd though, that Chrysler and Plymouth got high ratings for their transmissions, while Dodge and DeSoto got bad ratings. As far as I know, there were only three transmissions...a 3-on-the-tree, 2-speed Powerflite, and 3-speed Torquelite.

It's also interesting to see what a turd, apparently, the '55 Plymouth was! And that the '57 Buick fared horribly, yet Olds, and Cadillac, were pretty good. All three were new for '57, and had more in common with each other back then than they did with Chevy/Pontiac, but I guess that shows how much independence each division still had.

Also interesting, that the '58 Mercury showed up so bad, yet the '57 didn't seem too bad. I was under the impression that Mercurys were built a lot better than Fords in those days, but in both years, the Ford scored better overall. And the Edsel seemed to score pretty well. I'd always heard that '58 Edsels were especially poorly built, because they were put on either a Ford or Mercury assembly line, rather than their own dedicated lines, and tended to get rushed out the door more quickly. Supposedly those "teletouch" transmission controls were troublesome, and I guess that bears out in the ratings at least, since it got a black mark.

uplanderguy

Speaking of CR, I was always under the impression that the owner's surveys were for issues you've had with the car the past year. But, I recently saw online, on CR's site, where an owner was mentioning a repair that had been fixed under warranty, on a car that would've been well out of warranty. Do they ask for problems you've had as long as you've owned the car? I really have no idea.

andre1969

I found this on CR's website:

"For reliability, we ask members to note any problems with their vehicles that occurred in the previous 12 months. They are asked to identify problems that they considered serious (because of cost, failure, safety, or downtime). We ask them to include problems covered by warranty, but not the ones resulting from accident damage or due solely to recall."

So yeah, if the car has to go in for a repair, even if it's covered under the warranty and it was at no cost, they still want you to report it.

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/consumer-reports-car-reliability-faq-a1099917197/

sda

I've read CR since 1969 when mom bought an issue to research some purchase they were going to make. They subscribed and I've been reading ever since and have an active subscription. For the satisfaction surveys I believe CR used to ask that only those that bought the vehicle 'new' participate as the owner would know how the car has performed and been maintained from purchase. I used to fill out the surveys but found them time consuming as they would not only ask about autos but prompt one to fill out surveys for other products. A fun memory around 1971 when dad wanted to give the 63 Olds the boot, mom would carry the CR Auto Issue with her when they would look at used cars. They looked at a 67 T-Bird 4dr, which mom quickly rejected for the poor test review and reliability ratings. Dad liked that car. She ended up with a used 69 Olds 98 LS. This pic was taken soon after, me supervising dad giving the car a wax job.

uplanderguy

The reason I asked, was I saw a customer comment CR reprinted under the reliability rating re.: a problem that was covered under warranty, when the car would have been well out of warranty, timewise. It's a car I own and I am aware of a couple campaigns where they cover items, from my Chevrolet Customer Account. That made me think they were asking from day one.

It could be that the customer had an extended warranty (waaayyy extended), or misunderstood CR's instructions.

stickguy

Given the size of that car, he might still be out there waxing it!

sda

stickguy said:

Given the size of that car, he might still be out there waxing it!

I think that was the only time dad waxed it! Mom's next car was a 72 Cutlass Supreme.

fintail

Great pic. I have no memory of my dad ever waxing any of our cars. He'd talk about, but was more of a wash it thrice a year car cleaner. First waxing I remember was me cleaning up the 60 Ford right after my dad bought it, that Ford red was heavily oxidized, but after a full day of rubbing compound and wax, shined up nicely.

roadburner

andre1969 said:

I found this on CR's website:

"For reliability, we ask members to note any problems with their vehicles that occurred in the previous 12 months. They are asked to identify problems that they considered serious (because of cost, failure, safety, or downtime). We ask them to include problems covered by warranty, but not the ones resulting from accident damage or due solely to recall."

So yeah, if the car has to go in for a repair, even if it's covered under the warranty and it was at no cost, they still want you to report it.

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/consumer-reports-car-reliability-faq-a1099917197/

If you read the online CR owners comments you will find cars dinged on reliability issues when it's clearly the fault of the dealer. As an example, I checked the reliability comments for my Clubman and one person was complaining that the heater never warmed up. The dealer told the owner "They all do that." Dead wrong, but the car gets a black eye due to dealer incompetence.

uplanderguy

Once my Dad showed me how to wax a car, I think I did it every time after that. I enjoyed it. He told me once that one of the guys at work told him he could always tell when I was home from college as the car was always all cleaned up ('detailed' not being a word yet I don't think).

I used to do my parents' car, followed by mine. No way I could do that today.

uplanderguy

Some of the owner comments on CR's site are almost comical--show total lack of knowledge of their car. I've seen description of the problem-causer be something that would have nothing to do with the problem. Also, things like the model of the car not being the one equipped with the item reported as having the problem.