I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today!

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  • tjc78tjc78 South JerseyMember Posts: 13,753

    When I still lived home nearly every Saturday morning you would see my Stepdad and I cleaning all the cars. I would usually do my two and my Mom’s. He would do his and my stepbrother’s cars (they kept their cars like crap and continue to today).

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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHMember Posts: 14,545
    edited January 11
    Did anybody see Adam's new addition, a 7K mile, burgundy '65 Pontiac Bonneville 4-door hardtop 421? Just stunning, even with four doors. To me, the '65 big Pontiacs have long-been the 'Pontiac pinnacle'. The first '65 I fell in love with was a Grand Prix in the same color as Adam's Bonneville.

    He has the new-car window sticker. Odd to me that on a car like that, the Day/Night mirror and a foam-cushion front seat were options.

    I had posted on the Pontiac FB page I follow, where the car had been posted, that it was a Vista 4-door hardtop. A guy replied, "No pillar is called Ventura. You mean the Olds station wagon". Adam replied, "Ventura was a trim option on the Catalina" (correct). Guy replies, "Thanks Adam; finally someone who knows what he's talking about".

    The sound you hear is me hitting my head on my desk!

    I posted a page from the brochure showing that Pontiac called its four-door hardtops 'Vista' then, and Adam backed me up.

    No crime in being wrong; the crime is being 100% confident when you're wrong (not Adam, the other guy).
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,052
    edited January 11
    There a GM enthusiast in our work parking garage, he's been driving a '71 442 to work pretty consistently, even on cold days. He either must have the carb/choke figured out, or converted it to EFI. He also has a C7 and an early '70s Chevy pickup he drives.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 24,881
    edited January 11
    I had totally forgotten about that, Pontiac calling the 4-door hardtops "Vista" and the 2-door hardtops "Sport". Just out of curiosity, I looked it up to see when it stopped. Looks like 1966 was the last year.

    They started that in '59, because that year "Catalina" became a stand-alone model, whereas in '58 and earlier, "Catalina" denoted the hardtops, both 2- and 4-door. The one exception looks to be the '58 Bonneville hardtop, which was referred to as a "Sport".

    I guess in retrospect, having a "1958 Pontiac Bonneville Catalina" hardtop coupe would sound a bit awkward!

    As much as I love my '67 Catalina, I do agree about '65 being pretty much the high point. The '66 is nice too, but I like the forward thrust of the headlights on the '65 a bit better. At least, that's the first thing that draws me to the '65, versus the '66. With the '67, the interiors seem cheaper to me. And the car overall has a fatter look to it. I still find it appealing overall...obviously if I didn't, I never would have bought one, and held on to it for nearly 28 years!

    Ouch, just typing that last sentence, makes me feel old :'( And another old memory that just came up, from when I was married. One time, my then-wife and I were in the office at the mechanic, and there was a car calendar hanging on the wall in back. That particular month was featuring a Catalina. I can't remember the exact year, but it would've been '63-66. Anyway, the wife looks at me and says "Honey, how come ours looks so much fatter than that one?" :s
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHMember Posts: 14,545
    edited January 11
    His car is stunning. White vinyl interior with burgundy dash, carpets, and seat belts.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHMember Posts: 14,545
    edited January 11
    andre, I like the '66's too, but didn't care as much for the square center instruments inside, and that big Lucite (for lack of a better word) panel over the glovebox. Minor stuff though of course. On the Bonneville in '66, I did like that they removed that big 'spaceship' emblem as I call it! I also am intrigued some by the Star Chief Executive, last year they had a Star Chief model. I remember the cloth interiors on Venturas and Executives being quite nice, but I'm thinking they weren't available on coupes, only vinyl, which seems a bit odd. The cloth seating was a totally different pattern than the vinyl and even the door panels were different.

    The '66 full-sizes have a wonderful-looking optional wheelcover with a bit of a spinner. I'd have had to order that then.

    I do like, too, that in '66 you could get a Brougham two-door hardtop and convertible.

    Still, give me a '65. Despite the added length, I love the Bonneville Sport Coupe with buckets and console, rarely-seen.

    In '67 they came out with an Executive wagon, as you know. It had woodgrain but the Bonneville wagon didn't; odd. I always thought that was done because if someone got the Ventura option on a Catalina wagon, you'd have otherwise had an Executive wagon! In '70 the woodgrain was optional on the Bonneville Safari wagon.
  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaMember Posts: 16,984
    I saw the video he posted of it coming out of the trailer, not sure if there is anything beyond that. It looks like he has some work to do on it despite the low miles.

    I prefer the '65 to the refreshed '66 for similar reasons to those Andre mentioned, but both are well-styled cars. I found this one having a white interior to be curious. Can't imagine they sold many 4-doors like that. We had a '65 Parisienne 4-door HT in that same paint color when I was a kid, but it had a red interior. I remember Dad bought it new, and I really liked it. It replaced a '63 Laurentian 4-door (think Bel Air) in a tomato red that had 3 on the tree and I believe a 6-cyl under the hood. The Parisienne was much nicer of course and had a 283 and Powerglide. For reasons I never quite understood we didn't have it long. It got replaced with a '63 Parisienne 4-door sedan in turquoise metallic. He may have had a financial setback that led to that, but I don't know for sure.

    I had just finished watching the video Adam posted a few days ago on the '66 Catalina vs the '71 Bonneville when he posted video of the '65 acquisition. With the '66, while I like the turquoise paint and the matching interior color, the seats in the Catalina look pretty low-line, not Biscayne cheap, but not medium-price either. He praises the door panels as well which I judge in a similar way. Maybe this new acquisition will be a better comparison to the '71.

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  • sdasda Indian Land, SCMember Posts: 5,722
    I believe this has been discussed before, 1965 was a banner year for new models from the big 3, even AMC. With all the new models, and most crisply styled, it would have been fun to determine which one to buy if in the market at that time. Too many good choices! Dad got his first company car in 65, a new white Ford Custom w/ac. I was 6 and remember how excited he was when he got it. He immediately took the family for a ride.

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  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaMember Posts: 16,984
    Changing topics slightly, last night I watched this video from a year or so ago from Harry Metcalfe of Harry's Garage and thought it deserved mention here. I always liked the Jensen Interceptor as a kid, and there are actually a few around locally owned by members of a British car club. This one is apparently a reconstruction of an original car, with a modern Cadillac CTS-V/Camaro ZL1 powertrain replacing the old Chrysler V8 and numerous other modern upgrades.

    The sounds this thing makes during his drive are incredible. He normally is pretty reserved during his driving impressions but his reactions when it really takes off are unusual for him. What a bonkers car.

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  • sdasda Indian Land, SCMember Posts: 5,722
    ab348 said:

    Changing topics slightly, last night I watched this video from a year or so ago from Harry Metcalfe of Harry's Garage and thought it deserved mention here. I always liked the Jensen Interceptor as a kid, and there are actually a few around locally owned by members of a British car club. This one is apparently a reconstruction of an original car, with a modern Cadillac CTS-V/Camaro ZL1 powertrain replacing the old Chrysler V8 and numerous other modern upgrades.

    The sounds this thing makes during his drive are incredible. He normally is pretty reserved during his driving impressions but his reactions when it really takes off are unusual for him. What a bonkers car.

    The Interceptor was always an impressive car.

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  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaMember Posts: 16,984
    edited January 11
    Watching an episode of The Rockford Files from the mid-'70s ("Drought at Indianhead River") and was surprised to see this used as a mob guy's limo:


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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHMember Posts: 14,545
    edited January 11
    Adam's '65 Bonneville looks like he's reconditioned it, per Facebook. You will probably have to page down a bit:

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/pontiacmotordivision

    A guy posted below me about 'Vista'--"It even shows 'Vista' on the window sticker", LOL.

    RE.: The Interceptor--I have seen people liken the styling to the Avanti, although other than the long-hood, stubby-deck, quarter window, and wrapround rear window, I don't see it. The Avanti doesn't have any vents on the body, and has 'tumblehome'--the tucked-under lower body sides that GM took to new extremes in the '70's.
  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaMember Posts: 16,984
    Looks like he gave it an initial wash in the cold in his driveway. He is nothing if not passionate about these things.

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  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTMember Posts: 17,476
    Harry did seem pretty excited driving that Jensen.
    I'm guessing a Hellcat, would have been the spiritual successor, makes too much power.
    Not sure if he said which transmission it has.
    It looks totally factory, not thrown together, which is a credit to the builders.
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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHMember Posts: 14,545
    RE.: That '66 Catalina ab348 mentioned, that Adam showed--I love the dark turquoise color, but the seating doesn't do much for me, either. It's sub-Impala. The Ventura Custom option on the Catalina that year got you nicer seat trim, but I don't believe the door trim is different (not sure). One other small thing I like about the Ventura is the individual block "VENTURA" front fender lettering, as opposed to that big, bold "Catalina" script there. :) Inside, that same 'Catalina' script is replaced by block 'PONTIAC' lettering on the dash, above the glovebox. The 'PONTIAC' lettering was used on Venturas and 2+2's.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 24,881
    I don't mind the seating on that '66 Catalina, but have to admit, part of it is probably the color. That color is so eye-pleasing to me that you could probably make those seats out of off-brand garbage bags and burlap sacks, and I'd find it attractive in that color!

    I haven't watched the whole '66 versus '71 teardown yet, but it just seems to me that the '66 Catalina starts off as a higher-quality car, to begin with, just in more basic interior trimmings, wheras the '71 Grand Ville is a bit more of the "lipstick on a pig" concept. Cost cutting here and there on the basic design, but then throwing on some nicer padding and materials to hide that fact. When he mentions about how the '71 is really no bigger inside, it really blows my mind, that something that big only has a trunk in the 17 cubic foot range!

    One area though, where the '71 might be better, is the location of the steering wheel from the driver. On my '67 Catalina, I find it way too close for comfort, and on longer drives, my elbows and shoulders start to ache. I didn't notice it when I was younger, but once I got into my mid-40s it seemed to be a lot more noticeable. It's been ages since I've been behind the wheel of a '71-76 B/C-body, so I can't remember if they were much better, or not. I do remember an old test of a '71 Impala or Caprice...might have been Popular Mechanics, where they had an photo of one of their test drivers behind the wheel, holding his hands in a position of where he thought the steering wheel should be, and it was a few inches ahead of the actual location of the steering wheel.

    Also interesting, that he said the '71 seemed like it was a sportier handling car than the '66. I wonder if that was simply because of advancements in technology? Back when I had my '69 Bonneville, even then I noticed it seemed like a big leap forward from my Catalina. Part of it was that the steering wheel felt like it was a bit smaller in diameter, but it also felt like the steering was a bit quicker. That Bonneville actually felt pretty modern in the way it handled. Well, modern for the early 90's when I had it, and I was comparing it to cars like my Grandmom's '85 LeSabre, or my '82 Cutlass Supreme. But it just felt to me like a larger version of those cars, and the added length only became a problem when I had to park it in a tight spot. But in contrast, the Catalina just handles like an "old" car.

    So I'm guessing GM did some kind of suspension/steering improvements between '68 and '69, and the model year change was more substantial than just cosmetic. But then for '71, despite some of its shortcomings, they were able to modernize them even more.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHMember Posts: 14,545
    edited January 11
    I'm not sure if this is visible in the pics of that '66's seating, but what usually got me on Catalinas of that era were that the cloth seat inserts on the backs didn't go the whole way up to the top of the seat back, leaving rather plain vinyl right at the top of the seat backs, right at eye level.

    I even thought that when I saw that '72 New Yorker interior posted the other day.

    EDIT: I see the '66 is not like that; the '65 is. My mistake.
  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaMember Posts: 16,984
    Today’s Hemmings email digest offered up this, which I thought might get @uplanderguy’s interest until I looked closer:

    https://www.hemmings.com/stories/2022/01/11/meaty-rear-tires-hint-at-the-engine-swap-under-the-hood-of-this-sleeper-1980-chevrolet-malibu

    “Split bench seat”… uh, no. “Original 3.23 Posi”… I don’t think so. Those van or pickup hubcaps don’t look right to me either. I’m sure it probably goes like stink, but let’s try to be somewhat accurate.

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  • sdasda Indian Land, SCMember Posts: 5,722
    One point Adam made concerning the 66 Pontiac, where Pontiac emphasized and looked sporty they didn't handle well. Compared to a similar level Olds 88, Pontiac used softer spring rates and a smaller diameter sway bar. He remarked the Olds, while not emphasizing sportiness, handled significantly better, even without an optional firm ride suspension option.

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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHMember Posts: 14,545
    edited January 11
    That '66 Catalina has the color-keyed vinyl instrument panel inset, instead of black as I've seen on other '66's, even with non-black interiors. I've seen both, even on Star Chief Executives. That makes me wonder if the change to color-keyed happened somewhere in the model year (it does look a lot nicer color-keyed), or if it depended on body style (maybe four-door sedans had the black? I've actually seen that type of thing on Oldsmobiles--where the four-door sedan of a Super 88 or Delta 88, can't recall which, didn't have a center armrest up front like the hardtop body styles did. Well, I seem to remember that, anyway. No guarantee. :))
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHMember Posts: 14,545
    edited January 11
    Latest reply from the guy who says that '65 Bonneville of Adam's is a Ventura:

    Edward Topolewski
    Bill Pressler Thanks for your input, but I've read the window sticker...
    I still maintain that's a Ventura trim package. I know this because my father ordered a 4-door '65 from the dealership with the Ventura trim level which was somewhat of an upgrade that eliminated the center post columns.

    I replied, "I'm exhausted. There's nothing more that Adam or I can add".

    Wow.

    Like we were talking about here not too long ago--there sure seems to be a lot more dumb****ery on FB than other car sites I regularly visit.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 24,881
    edited January 11
    If it was a Ventura, wouldn't it actually say "VENTURA" on the front fender, instead of "CATALINA"?

    Looking through the '66 sales brochure, the Ventura's interior is definitely different. Doors look a bit more thickly padded, and they don't have that horizontal contrast stripe that bisects the door panel. The lower edge of the door panel has an area that almost looks like it's designed to have carpeting installed.

    With the seats though, they show a 4-door in cloth, and a hardtop coupe in vinyl, so it's a bit hard to directly compare. Interestingly, on the 4-door in cloth, the cloth looks like its just an insert that doesn't go all the way up and over the top of the seat. And, are those...headrests? On the hardtop coupe? In '66?!


    Here's a page from the Catalina's section of that brochure. Looks like the same interior color as Adam's hardtop, just in a 4-door...

    It's odd that the fabric part of the seat goes all the way up and over the top on the Catalina, but stops short of it on the Ventura. But on the plus side, the Ventura doesn't have that vinyl strip in the center (on the 4-door at least), and the fabric looks a bit nicer, to me.

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHMember Posts: 14,545
    That guy's "Ventura" comment is about Adam's Bonneville--even worse than had he said it about the '66 Catalina!

    The Ventura and Star Chief Executive cloth interior doesn't bother me, as it's nice cloth and the cloth goes almost all the way across the seat, instead of having a big vinyl bolster down the middle. I think that the cloth interiors were not available on the two-door Ventura and Executives, only the all-vinyl.

    I remember seeing a gold '70 Ventura four-door hardtop for sale a couple years ago, that had a nice cloth interior which, like the '66 above, was a completely different seat pattern than the all-vinyl interior. It was nice....luxurious, but not reaaallll so.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 24,881
    Back in the 1990's, a guy who worked in the same building as me had a '69 Catalina with the Ventura package. It was gold 4-door sedan. I think it originally had a black vinyl roof, but he had pulled it off, did the prep work, and painted it sort of a muted firethorn red. I remember it had a really nice interior. At a quick glance, it seemed as nice inside as the '69 Bonneville I had, the most noticeable difference I remember is that the Bonneville had full-length, integrated armrests with that soft-touch type material that usually doesn't hold up too well, while the Ventura just had the typical bolt-on armrests. And, the seat vinyl was a different pattern. I'd say just as nice as my Bonneville, just a different style.

    Oh, I found that conversation on facebook. I was going to say something, but then I remembered that old line about arguing with some people is like mud wrestling a pig. You both get dirty, but the pig likes it!
  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaMember Posts: 16,984

    That guy's "Ventura" comment is about Adam's Bonneville--even worse than had he said it about the '66 Catalina!

    The Ventura and Star Chief Executive cloth interior doesn't bother me, as it's nice cloth and the cloth goes almost all the way across the seat, instead of having a big vinyl bolster down the middle. I think that the cloth interiors were not available on the two-door Ventura and Executives, only the all-vinyl.

    That sort of cloth upholstery design as shown in the Ventura brochure pic was pretty common in the ‘60s on higher trim levels before falling out of favor. I remember seeing it on Chrysler products especially.

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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,979
    W110 LWB, usually diesel I think, 1965-68. Never sold new in the USDM, but some made it over as curiosities. They were intended to be taxis or like hotel shuttle vehicles rather than luxury limos (600 was for that, I suppose to the random person on the street, this resembles a 600).
    ab348 said:

    Watching an episode of The Rockford Files from the mid-'70s ("Drought at Indianhead River") and was surprised to see this used as a mob guy's limo:


  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 15,842
    sda said:

    ab348 said:

    Changing topics slightly, last night I watched this video from a year or so ago from Harry Metcalfe of Harry's Garage and thought it deserved mention here. I always liked the Jensen Interceptor as a kid, and there are actually a few around locally owned by members of a British car club. This one is apparently a reconstruction of an original car, with a modern Cadillac CTS-V/Camaro ZL1 powertrain replacing the old Chrysler V8 and numerous other modern upgrades.

    The sounds this thing makes during his drive are incredible. He normally is pretty reserved during his driving impressions but his reactions when it really takes off are unusual for him. What a bonkers car.

    The Interceptor was always an impressive car.
    I almost bought a 1972 with the 440 motor; I still kick myself for letting it get away.

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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHMember Posts: 14,545
    andre, here's that '70 Ventura I remembered seeing for sale some time back. OK, the skirts were optional by then and I don't like them, but I do like the cloth interior--it looks sort-of 'satin-y', and I like how every inch of the face of the seating is cloth. Kind of a muted, sort-of luxurious interior. By '70 the door panels on the Ventura and Executive with this seating were the same as those with vinyl seats.

    https://topclassiccarsforsale.com/pontiac/241874-1970-pontiac-ventura.html
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 24,881
    That '70 Ventura is nice. One little detail I had forgotten, is that my Bonneville had a center armrest up front, while that Ventura doesn't have one. I wonder, could you get an armrest as an option?

    It seems like such a minor detail these days, especially since nowadays just about everything has individual seats up front and the padded top of the console serves as the armrest. But I guess in those days, that armrest was one detail that separated the upper level cars from the masses!
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHMember Posts: 14,545
    I used to hate '70 big Pontiacs, but you never see them now. And the Ventura was always rather 'under the radar', which attracts me. I like that brown color, too.

    No center armrest option on Venturas.

    I remember that a center armrest was the sign of a luxury model, really....and if it also had one in the back seat (e.g., Bonneville Brougham), hoo-wee! LOL
  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaMember Posts: 16,984
    I remember when Dad bought the '71 Monaco, that was the first car of ours to have a front center armrest and it was a big deal. Thought it wasn't a split bench since the bottom seat cushion was full-width. One thing I remember was that the armrest was mounted on a steel bracket, sort of U-shaped with a pair of triangular arms going up from the base, that Chrysler painted black and which was already scratched-up upon delivery.

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  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaMember Posts: 16,984
    The discussion about GM's B/C body cars handling better after the '71 redesign brought something from the recesses of my mind. I remember reading something about how Buick designed a new front suspension geometry called Accudrive that improved handling. It was first a Buick exclusive but later made its way across GM platforms. I think something similar happened with the '73 A-bodies.

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  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 24,881
    edited January 12
    I can't say I ever hated the big '70 Pontiacs. "Hate" is a strong word. I mean, we HATED Hitler. This is more like Mussolini! (sorry, couldn't resist a vague Bob Newhart Show reference :D ) But, I wasn't a huge fan of them. There are exceptions, but in general I just don't like grilles that are too tall and narrow in relation to the front of the car. And those horn ports give the car a bit of an awkward six-headlight look.

    But, now that they're not an everyday sighting anymore, I think they're kinda cool. Another attitude I've softened up on considerably is my opinion of brown shades. I used to absolutely despise a brown car. But now, depending on the shade of brown, and how it works with the car overall, I don't mind. And I think again, it's because there's such a sea of white, gray/silver and black these days, that brown is actually refreshing. I think owning that 2000 Park Ave might have made me a bit more receptive to the color, although it was more of a sandstone, than out and out brown. I think that '70 Ventura has just a touch of gold in that brown, that I find attractive.

    On the subject of armrests, years ago I when I belonged to the National DeSoto Club, I remember in their newsletter someone did an article comparing the '57 Fireflite to the '57 New Yorker, to see if the New Yorker really was worth the extra money. Both were the most expensive full-line models in their respective divisions (not counting the limited production Adventurer and 300C). A '57 Fireflite started at $3487 for the 4-door sedan, while a New Yorker was $4173, almost $800 more. Both had 4-bbl Hemi engines and Torqueflite standard. I remember the writer saying the DeSoto's interior actually seemed nicer than the New Yorker's! The seats seemed to use nicer materials, and the armrests were a more expensive integrated style, versus bolt-on for the New Yorker. However, I do remember them mentioning something about an armrest making a difference in favor of the Chrylser. Relying just on my memory, I was thinking it was standard on the New Yorker, optional on the DeSoto. But then I looked up some pics of interiors to refresh my memory, and I'm seeing a lot of '57 New Yorkers without an armrest, and only a few with them. And no Fireflites at all with a center armrest. So I wonder if the difference is, it was optional on the New Yorker, and not available at all on the Fireflite?

    Anyway, I do remember the author saying that, despite the DeSoto being nicer in a lot of respects, they still preferred the New Yorker, because it was hard to match that 392 Hemi with its 325 hp and gobs of torque. The DeSoto 341 put out 290 in 4-bbl form, which was good for its displacement, but still no match.

    As for seat coverings, I still tend to think of the more of the surface that's covered in cloth, the better, because I remember those hot days in the 70's of having to put a towel on the seat, or you'd get burned. But, often, vinyl was considered an upgrade.

    With the '57 DeSotos, overall the seat pattern seemed more ritzy on the Fireflite, but on the cheaper Firedome (which I have), a larger portion of the seating area was covered in fabric.

    Fireflite:

    Firedome:

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHMember Posts: 14,545
    edited January 12
    Isn't it funny how brands named their vinyl interiors? "Vinyahide", and I remember Pontiac was "Morrokide" and Olds, I think, was "Morroceen".

    Cloth interiors--in Studebaker-land, my favorite car is a 1964 Gran Turismo Hawk. Most have the standard bucket seats covered in optional all-vinyl, but the cloth inserts, which were standard, had a metallic thread running through them every so often. Although in my mind that's sort of a '50's thing, I like it. Studebaker knew the Hawk was old-line, as they often used the word "classic" in its advertising, but such was the beauty of the '53 that with admittedly pretty major revisions, it could still be sold as a '64 model. Pretty early on the final Hawks were recognized by the Milestone Car Society.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,052
    Remember the book 'Wheels', where one plot point is the damage control the automaker went into when the metallic threads in the fabric upholstery pulled out the fur in the customers mink stoles?

    Really odd the things I remember...
  • sdasda Indian Land, SCMember Posts: 5,722
    edited January 12
    This was the identical interior that dad had in his 71 Catalina coupe. The vinyl actually looked like imitation pigskin leather, the picture does not show that detail.


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  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaMember Posts: 16,984
    Growing up in the '60s I got conditioned to think that cloth seats were cheaper since they were what came standard most of the time, and you had to pay extra for vinyl (usually). But in some cases a low-line model had really nasty vinyl seats (more plastic than most vinyl) as standard, so it was confusing. I do recall that Dad's '78 Grand LeMans Safairi had really nice vinyl upholstery, fairly thick and soft with realistic graining. Nicer than a lot of actual leathers these days which are stiff.

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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,979
    Funny, growing up in the 80s, I was conditioned to think of vinyl as the base, then base cloth, then velvety velour, then leather. Some of the 60s/70s vinyl was insanely nicer than the base model 80s/90s vinyl.

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHMember Posts: 14,545
    In '71 and '72 big Pontiacs, the Catalina Brougham all-vinyl interior (shared with Bonneville) looked a lot nicer IMHO, and wore like iron. I don't believe that to this day I've seen one that's torn or worn through.

    Plus, you got the door panels that were soft at the top, instead of the hard plastic on the base Catalina.

    The Catalina Brougham took over for what was the Ventura option in '70, and the Bonneville got knocked down to what had been the Executive in '70, and of course Grand Ville took the place of the Bonneville in '71.

    I don't know if I've ever seen a real car with it, but I always liked this brochure photo of the optional '72 Grand Ville Custom Interior (think "Brougham" in '70 and before). In a four-door you got a center armrest in the back seat too. Not even talking about bumpers, I don't care for what they did to the Grand Ville in '73--lots more fake wood inside; the door panels reminded me of stalks (stocks?) of cheesy 'Western' air rifles; instrument pods became square; fussy seat patterns with a bunch of interconnected diamond patterns, etc.

    For looks, I'll take the '72 Grand Ville.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/mark_potter_2000/3058028062
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHMember Posts: 14,545
    edited January 13
    RE.: Adam's beautiful burgundy '65 Bonneville with 7K miles--

    Didn't take long for the requisite, "Probably 107K miles".

    That always cracks me up.

    Look at that interior and tell me if that says 107K miles. I remember seeing them with half that mileage where the wood was cracking and peeling, etc.

    I recall discussion about a plain-jane '68 Chevy II Nova coupe on FB with 30K miles. I believed it as the body was very solid for its northeast location during its life, and the low-buck original seat trim was in good shape. "Gotta be 130K" someone opines. People forget that back then with regular use, cars were usually shot by 100K. That the Chevy II had rust-free quarters and good cheapo cloth interior were proof enough for me of the mileage.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHMember Posts: 14,545
    edited January 13
    After a mid-seventies Seville, these are my next-favorite four-door Cadillac. I can handle the size--not enormous--and I think the styling and luxury have held up. This burgundy '79 Fleetwood Brougham is an excellent example:

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/207245510448803/posts/669591927547490/?comment_id=670497907456892&notif_id=1641946276878770&ref=notif&notif_t=group_comment_reply
  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaMember Posts: 16,984

    RE.: Adam's beautiful burgundy '65 Bonneville with 7K miles--

    Didn't take long for the requisite, "Probably 107K miles".

    I don't know how he puts up with some of the comments and questions that appear after he posts a YouTube video. Some people are very nosy, and in addition to comments like the one above there are always "For sale?" comments and tons of misinformation or irrelevance.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHMember Posts: 14,545
    "For sale?" comments--virtually on every car on the 'All Original Cars' FB page. Adam usually posts his cars on that page as well. That is exhausting--the "How much will you take?" comments, when there's nothing about the car being for sale, in the original post.

    Still, I enjoy the 'All Original Cars' page a lot.

    I really haven't looked at Adam's own stuff, but as I said, seems like he does post them on FB on 'All Original Cars'.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,979
    edited January 13
    95% of YT comments are the dregs of humanity (only 75% of fb).
    ab348 said:

    RE.: Adam's beautiful burgundy '65 Bonneville with 7K miles--

    Didn't take long for the requisite, "Probably 107K miles".

    I don't know how he puts up with some of the comments and questions that appear after he posts a YouTube video. Some people are very nosy, and in addition to comments like the one above there are always "For sale?" comments and tons of misinformation or irrelevance.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,979
    Members only club, but the color of that title image car is also nice.

    After a mid-seventies Seville, these are my next-favorite four-door Cadillac. I can handle the size--not enormous--and I think the styling and luxury have held up. This burgundy '79 Fleetwood Brougham is an excellent example:

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/207245510448803/posts/669591927547490/?comment_id=670497907456892&notif_id=1641946276878770&ref=notif&notif_t=group_comment_reply

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHMember Posts: 14,545
    edited January 14
    Sorry about that. It's a burgundy '79 Fleetwood Brougham d'Elegance. I usually prefer the non-d'Elegance but the pillow seats aren't too crazy in this car.

    "d'Elegance"--that name is such a cliche, LOL. I think there's a Seinfeld episode where George's Dad is talking about their Cadillac and says, "It's a De-Elegonce"!

    But the car itself, that Fleetwood--very nice.

    RE.: YT and FB versus other car forums--everyone here has different tastes, but there's almost no churlishness.

    Love that word--from Bugs Bunny cartoon, "Oh, churlish dolt!".
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 24,881
    Oopsie...


  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTMember Posts: 17,476
    @andre1969,
    That isn't a pic of your car is it?
    2020 Ford Explorer XLT
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 24,881
    Nah, not mine. Lemko found it in another forum and sent it to me. Apparently there's a facebook group dedicated to old wrecked "Forward Look" era Mopars.

    However, I'll admit when I first saw it, at a quick glance I was thinking hey, what if that WAS my car, in a past life, before I owned it? But, this one is a Fireflite, whereas mine's a Firedome. Main external cues are the FireFlite has that little "V" in the leading edge of the spear near where it says "Sportsman" and the Fireflite also has a taller backlite (although not noticeable at a quick glance in this pic). The Fireflite also had a bit more chrome, such as at the base of the C-pillar, and along the rain gutters, but that washes out in this picture.

    Oddly, despite mine being a cheaper model, mine has a mirror mounted on the passenger side fender. It's utterly useless, but it's there! :p
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHMember Posts: 14,545
    edited January 14
    We are visiting our daughter, husband, and granddaughter just south of Columbus, OH today. I've seen some unusual iron down here.

    In the Giant Eagle (supermarket) parking lot, saw two Trail Blazers (not the current one; the old ones) parked right next to each other, both backed into their parking spaces. On the way out of there, I saw driving, one of the Saabs that was based on the Trail Blazer. It was black and pretty clean other than a big goose-egg in the LR door.

    In a driveway near my daughter's house, I saw a white '90's Lincoln Town Car. Sat nice at all four corners, no visible rust, nice wheels and correct-looking-width whitewalls, and it was the year that did not have the extra vertical separation in the rear door glass. No 'hillbillying' up, either, like aftermarket wide wheel opening trim or mock top. Those TC's to me are some of the best-looking ones, and I used to get them pretty often as rentals back then from Budget Rent-A-Car.

    Only slightly related, but I am still searching for a new, or close, 2020 Impala, with not much luck. Most notifications I get are for ones with mileage in the 50's or 60's. I never really tried to look at a Lacrosse, as I like the Impala styling better. There are two Chevy dealers I use based on which sends me the best oil change coupons, within ten miles of me. There's a Buick dealer ten or so miles away too but I have no experience with them. I spotted this dirty, silver late Lacrosse in our hotel lot. I've never seen one so basic.


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