I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today!

uplanderguy

That Caddy is striking to me. The name "Fleetwood" was always magical in my mind; our local dealer (paired with Chevy) never had a Fleetwood in, that I can recall seeing. Fleetwood sedans in black, that I'd see in pics from '60's and '70's, always seemed funereal, or U.S. government service, cars. Still, always loved the terrific interiors, the individual "FLEETWOOD" lettering outside, the wide rocker trim and for a lot of years, the lack of a body side molding.

I can't think of what somebody would cross-shop for if they liked that Fleetwood coupe.

Michaell

As Mr. Shiftright used to say "rare does not mean classic", but I did encounter an early 90's survivor yesterday.

1st generation Honda Passport - rebadge of the Isuzu Rodeo. This one was bright red with the requisite gold badging on it, with the 31" tires. Looked in pristine condition.

andys120

uplanderguy said:

That Caddy is striking to me. The name "Fleetwood" was always magical in my mind; our local dealer (paired with Chevy) never had a Fleetwood in, that I can recall seeing. Fleetwood sedans in black, that I'd see in pics from '60's and '70's, always seemed funereal, or U.S. government service, cars. Still, always loved the terrific interiors, the individual "FLEETWOOD" lettering outside, the wide rocker trim and for a lot of years, the lack of a body side molding.

I can't think of what somebody would cross-shop for if they liked that Fleetwood coupe.

U.S. government service cars

That's a new one on me. Aside from the presidential fleet or perhaps the Amassadorial service I've never heard of Cadillacs being used by the US Govt. let alone top-of-the-line Fleetwoods.

sda

Michaell said:

As Mr. Shiftright used to say "rare does not mean classic", but I did encounter an early 90's survivor yesterday.

1st generation Honda Passport - rebadge of the Isuzu Rodeo. This one was bright red with the requisite gold badging on it, with the 31" tires. Looked in pristine condition.

My sister had a first generation Passport EX, black with gray cloth. She loved it. Sadly a large truck crashed into the back and totaled it. Thankfully her boys were not in the backseat and she suffered whiplash and cuts and bruises from the airbag as the crash pushed her into the car ahead of her. The Passport folded in the middle like a 'V'. They bought a 2001 Passport with leather and it gave her nothing but trouble. Toyota for her ever since.

uplanderguy

Yes, pics of Fleetwoods show they were used in White House duty (usually the 'Seventy Five' model), and ambassador service. JFK, LBJ, and Nixon-era.

andre1969

Here's a '73 that was made an appearance in NBC's 1984-85 "V: The Series."
Alas, it was involved in an ambush and didn't fare very well...

uplanderguy

I remember, when I lived in Atlanta, going to a dealer's introduction of the FWD '84 Cadillacs. Yeesh, those were hard-to-take in comparison.

For me personally, the Ninety-Eight ('85) had the best styling of the three FWD nameplates.

andre1969

I saw one of those shrunken C-bodies this morning, when I ran out to Aldi to get a few quick things. This '87 or so Caddy was parked, at the far edge of the parking lot...
One thing I'll say for these cars is that, love them or hate them, they still have a distinctively Cadillac look about them. I think these downsized C-bodies were nice, if you look at them on their own merit, as sort of a new breed of full-sized car. But where they fall short, in my opinion, is in being a truly worthy replacement to the old RWD Ninety-Eight, Electra, and DeVille/Fleetwood. They just didn't have the presence of those older cars.

kyfdx

andre1969 said:

I saw one of those shrunken C-bodies this morning, when I ran out to Aldi to get a few quick things. This '87 or so Caddy was parked, at the far edge of the parking lot...
One thing I'll say for these cars is that, love them or hate them, they still have a distinctively Cadillac look about them. I think these downsized C-bodies were nice, if you look at them on their own merit, as sort of a new breed of full-sized car. But where they fall short, in my opinion, is in being a truly worthy replacement to the old RWD Ninety-Eight, Electra, and DeVille/Fleetwood. They just didn't have the presence of those older cars.

We had an '89 rental, that we drove to Naples. 17 hours each way. Plenty of room for four adults, plus luggage.

xwesx

Somebody stole the trunk off that thing!

Edit: Oops, nevermind. It just blended into the background behind it. LOL

uplanderguy

Blackwalls with wire wheel covers, LOL!

I'm a guy who mostly loved the '77 GM downsized big cars, and also liked the '78 intermediates (which pushed the envelope farther than the '77's did). But talk about 'pushing the envelope' on those Caddys!

I remember seeing or reading then, that the FWD Fleetwood had a 'privacy' rear window. Yep. You could see the big panel they put in there outside, to make it smaller than the DeVille's!

andre1969

Unfortunately, I was taking this picture facing the sun, and the car was somewhat in the shadows with those barrier walls behind it, so I did the auto adjust on the iPhone to try and brighten it up. It mostly worked, but yeah, the trunk almost disappeared!

I didn't get out to look at the car closely, but from what I could tell, it looked like it was in really good shape. Just needed white walls.

GM definitely took pushed the limits when it came to this second wave of downsizing on these cars. It's been awhile since I've been in one, but from what I remember, the only thing they really lost to the RWD cars was shoulder room and trunk space. They were a very comfy 4-seater, and would've held 6 passengers better than any existing midsize on the market at the time, but they just didn't have quite the shoulder room of the bigger RWD cars. Although by that time, I'm not convinced the RWD cars were such good 6-seaters anymore, either. I remember my grandmother's '85 LeSabre was uncomfortable in the center position, both front and rear. Up front it was because of the split seats and armrests, but in back, the seats seemed like they were contoured for two large passengers. And the center armrest probably had something to do with it as well.

Lemko had an '88 Park Avenue for awhile, and I sat in it once or twice. I remember the front seating position being relatively high, a bit more truck-like. The seat didn't seem like it went back as far as the older RWD cars, but the height helped compensate for that. And the seats were thickly padded, and comfortable.

uplanderguy

In the past probably five years, a car identical to this one, even so far as condition, was driving around here. I gotta admit, by this time, I guess I'd gotten used to that size and shape and it could still be a six-seater if times called for it. '93

explorerx4

2 wipers on the back window made it interesting when it was new.

kyfdx

Yeesh..

xwesx

Oof. Those Camry wagons were hellaciously ugly when new... and nothing has changed!

uplanderguy

Back to Cadillacs for a moment....

I've seen more than one person say that the last great Cadillac was the 1966 Fleetwood Brougham.

Even though the '74 Talisman leather interior was so very over-the-top, this link makes me agree that overall, this may well have been the last of the truly great Cadillacs.

https://www.mecum.com/lots/FL0117-267976/1966-cadillac-fleetwood-brougham/

andre1969

Funny thing, back in college I came across a 1966 Fleetwood...Brougham or 60 Special, or whatever they were calling it by that time. It was black with a black interior, and looked like it was in really great shape. It was for sale at, of all places, a used car lot that specialized in imports, in College Park MD, and they only wanted $2500 for it. The main thing I remember about it was how cool it was to see EIGHT power switches on the driver's door. One for each of the 4 windows, but even the vent windows, front and rear, were also power operated!

On the subject of Cadillacs, I was going through some old pics looking for something else, and found a couple pics of my Grandmom's cousin's '89 Coupe DeVille. She wanted me to drive it, and check out something on it, but I can't remember now what that was. But anyway, I had it over at my house. These were taken back in the summer of 2012...
It was looking pretty rough by this time, but mechanically, still seemed pretty solid. I remember driving it and it seemed pretty well-planted. No squeaks or rattles, steering felt pretty tight, etc. And that 4.5 V8 did have a nice rumble to it. I tend to think of this car as a testament to the improved durability of the 4.5, as well. She tried to take care of it the best she could, but money got tight in her older age. Also, her idiot son tended to drive it alot, and cars tend to not last very long with him around. So if the 4.5 could put up with my relatives, it would probably survive a nuclear war!

It's weird to think that's been over 10 years now...I can still remember that day and it doesn't seem that long ago. But now that I think about it, I think she got rid of that car in 2014. She finally got to the point that she couldn't drive anymore, and I seem to recall that was just before she turned 90.

uplanderguy

Those cars without a padded top are pretty unusual. I prefer them that way.

By that time, apparently, the Coupe deVille got the earlier Fleetwood's 'privacy' rear window.

I think at some point they went to a 4.9, but I'm rusty on that.

uplanderguy

Seen in 'Curbside Classics' this morning--reprint, and commentary, of an original review of a '66 Bel Air four-door sedan with six-cylinder and Powerglide. I don't remember car magazines, other than CR, testing a car like that!

https://www.curbsideclassic.com/vintage-reviews/vintage-car-life-road-test-1966-chevrolet-bel-air-six-with-powerglide-just-how-slow-was-it/

andre1969

I saw that curbside classic as well. Actually, I thought 0-60 in 15.5 seconds for the 6 cyl/Powerglide was pretty impressive. However, I have a feeling if CR tested it, it would be slower. I remember CR testing a '68 Impala with the 307/Powerglide, and its 0-60 was 14.5 seconds. Now the '68 would've been a bit heavier, especially with a V8, but I'd think the V8 should have a bigger advantage than that.

CR also tested a '68 Dart with the 225/Torqueflite, and I remember its 0-60 was 14.0 seconds. Kinda interesting that the Car Life test Dart, a '63 with the same setup, was 14.4. By '68 they were using a 2.76:1 axle, but in the earlier years I think they tended to pair the slant six with a 2.94:1. Here's a table that the author on Curbside Classics compiled, of some cars from that era...

I seem to recall CR testing a '68 Nova with the 250/Powerglide in the same test as that Dart I mentioned. I think its 0-60 time was around 14.5 seconds. So if my memory's correct on that one, I'm impressed that the much heavier '66 Bel Air with that setup was only one second slower. However, I don't which axle ratio the two respective cars had. If the Bel Air had a quicker axle and the Nova had a taller ratio, that would equalize things somewhat.

stickguy

My 67 Camaro 6 with powerglide was far from fast. That barge with 6 people in it must have been glacial.

tjc78

@uplanderguy said:
Back to Cadillacs for a moment....

I've seen more than one person say that the last great Cadillac was the 1966 Fleetwood Brougham.

Even though the '74 Talisman leather interior was so very over-the-top, this link makes me agree that overall, this may well have been the last of the truly great Cadillacs.

https://www.mecum.com/lots/FL0117-267976/1966-cadillac-fleetwood-brougham/

Beautiful car right there.

uplanderguy

I plainly remember our neighbor, a Mopar guy in general, having to borrow our '67 Chevelle 250/155 hp with 3-speed stick, and saying, "For a six, that's pretty peppy".

uplanderguy

Funny thing, back in college I came across a 1966 Fleetwood...Brougham or 60 Special, or whatever they were calling it by that time.

Through 1970, they had the "Fleetwood Sixty Special" and "Fleetwood Brougham" ('Brougham' available starting in '65).

I have never been able to notice one thing different besides the two, inside or out, other than the 'halo' style vinyl roof on the Brougham. I think if you wanted the Sixty Special with a vinyl top, you got pushed into a Brougham. I believe a vinyl top was simply not available on a Sixty Special.

Odd, because by that time a vinyl top was available on lesser DeVille models, without any additional model name.

In '71, they all had a vinyl top standard and were called "Fleetwood Sixty-Special Brougham".

uplanderguy

Back to the Fleetwood Brougham coupe--this '84 is at a dealer about 45 mins. east of me now. 35K miles. Far-less eyecatching colors, but has the standard, non-wire wheelcovers, which is interesting to me.

https://www.hausautogroup.com/used/Cadillac/1984-Cadillac-Fleetwood-cec8df720a0e087f0db8dbb6f0c0e4ee.htm

andre1969

I never would have thought of silver with a brown interior, but it comes off nice enough, in my opinion.

uplanderguy

Agree, not a bad combo.

tjc78

I look at lots of iron and have never seen silver over brown. Custom job there for sure.

ab348

It’s not silver. It is one of those pale beige metallics. Some manufacturers called it “Champagne “.

andre1969

Now that I look through the pics again, I can sort of see it. I swear, at a quick glance it looks silver, with a gray landau top to me. but I think that's a combination of the overhead lights, and perhaps reflection of the walls. In some of the pics, I can sort of see that champagne color coming through.

I just found a 1984 Cadillac paint chart online. Wow, did Cadillac seriously offer this many colors?!
I know it can be hard to match up these color charts, as they don't always translate well, but I'm picking up sort of a "Desert Frost Firemist" vibe.

tjc78

@ab348 said:
It’s not silver. It is one of those pale beige metallics. Some manufacturers called it “Champagne “.

Oh… well that would make the brown make sense then. I went back and looked again. On my phone it 100% looks like silver with a grey top.

andre1969

If you look at the exposed metal in the doorjamb in this picture, it comes off with just a hint of brown, in my opinion...
About the best way I can describe it is sort of a really washed-out silvery-cocoa, perhaps?

xwesx

uplanderguy said:

Those cars without a padded top are pretty unusual. I prefer them that way.

By that time, apparently, the Coupe deVille got the earlier Fleetwood's 'privacy' rear window.

I think at some point they went to a 4.9, but I'm rusty on that.

You're not the only one that's rusty!

xwesx

andre1969 said:

If you look at the exposed metal in the doorjamb in this picture, it comes off with just a hint of brown, in my opinion...

About the best way I can describe it is sort of a really washed-out silvery-cocoa, perhaps?

That's just a reflection of that interior! Haha!

fintail

This popped up in a fintail group, car came out of the woodwork in Italy - 1962, 220SE (FI), automatic, untouched 30K mile/48K km car. Asking 28K Euro, probably with room for negotiation for 25K or so, which is probably right on track. Some like this color combo:

sda

I really like the red leather seats contrasted to the black and wood trim. Very handsome.

roadburner

fintail said:

This popped up in a fintail group, car came out of the woodwork in Italy - 1962, 220SE (FI), automatic, untouched 30K mile/48K km car. Asking 28K Euro, probably with room for negotiation for 25K or so, which is probably right on track. Some like this color combo:

The 1965 Mustang that my mother demolished in 1970 was black over red. It took me 52 years to finally buy a with a red interior and I love it.

uplanderguy

I like black over red, classic. The Service Manager at my hometown Studebaker dealer, worked there 1949-66 except for two years in the Army, who sadly died Dec. 30 at age 91, had a black over red 1964 Cruiser 4-door sedan, complete 'Super' package, supercharged R2, Powershift floor shift (PRND21), disc brakes, Twin Traction, tach, rear seat speaker, 'Certified' speedometer (like police cars had), red cloth bucket seats. I never saw it but wish I had. I can just picture it. He told me he lost his driver's license with it.

uplanderguy

RE.: That Fleetwood coupe near me--sure looks gray/silver to me, but I think the ad itself says something about 'brown'. My first thought is the ubiquitous 1983/84 GM light brown metallic called various names across the divisions, but in their ad, it sure doesn't look like that.

I never cared for GM using 'casket handles' on inside door panels, but I gotta say, to my eyes, that is a substantial-looking, expensive-looking, door panel.

fintail

One of my mom's all time dream cars is a 57 T-Bird in black on red - she knows enough to know that's the year with the porthole top. I could live with a red interior, but maintaining a black car would push me over the edge in short order.

imidazol97

We need for someone who lives nearby to go look at the RPO tag on that 1984 Cadillac to see what the paint codes are for the body and the padded roof.

I don't know if a local dealer can put in the VIN and get that same information. They give the VIN.
Anybody got a friend at a dealership they wouldn't mind asking for a favor?

All I can think of is the lights in that bright showroom are LED and are missing some of the red and
yellow spectrum. That means the brown tones in the metallic paint aren't showing up. But the roof
still looks silver to me.

1G6AW478XE9016721

explorerx4

The ad says color is beige.

tjc78

@explorerx4 said:
The ad says color is beige.

I inquired for the color codes. Why not lol

fintail

I was browsing the local newspaper archive again yesterday, and picked a randomish year - 1979 approaching the height of malaise. I chose the Jan 12th paper, to be on "this day", as it was a Friday, it is more relevant today.

We'll open with the header - It's Friday! Kind of a whimsical thing you wouldn't see today. I imagine the party being like "Thank God It's Friday" or the Potamkin Cadillac disco commercial:



Let's get going - shootout at the new and used car corral (this dealer still exists):




Some trucks - that font is familiar somehow:



So much luxury:



Datsuns, and Barton was fond of the word "classic":



Leases, and the purchasers of those 70s barges at right were going to get a resale value shock soon (maybe pick up that 58 Impala in the text ads):



More Datsuns etc:



Chevy vs Ford:




Maybe Nash buyers wanted a super low spec AMC - and a smorgasbord with more leases:



Monster lease deals - scary indeed:



And for a chef's kiss, a couple real estate snippets. Official CPI calculator claims roughly a 4.35 multiplier which shows how that calculator doesn't take everything into account as it maybe should (these average at least 10-15x today, some maybe more):





All of these should zoom well enough.

stickguy

can't lease a new Volvo for $99/month these days sadly.

Michaell

That $95/mo Volvo lease translates to around $400/mo today.

I wouldn’t mind one of those ‘79 Celicas; a friend of my dads had one in bright yellow.

stickguy

that or the '79 Corolla liftback Still RWD in those days.

explorerx4

A lot to digest there.

Michaell

stickguy said:

that or the '79 Corolla liftback Still RWD in those days.

I remember going with my dad to look at a used one of those - it was either the 2-door liftback (more wagon-y) or the 2-door hatchback (more sporty). Can't remember when this was, or why he didn't go through with the purchase.