I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today!

explorerx4

PHS could verify what that car is.

uplanderguy

Yep. I believe the car now that I've looked at the '75 brochure.

Boy, Pontiac's mid-size lineup was about as diverse as the '67 full-size line was!

A couple years ago, I saw a '74 or '75 (can't recall now) LeMans Sport Coupe GT with the triangular quarter window and the interior of a nice bench seat with center armrest. Brochure showed all available. I don't believe I'd seen a Sport Coupe with anything but the louvered window previously. i had never seen a GT before that wasn't just a base LeMans to start with. The brochure also showed that the LeMans sedan could be had with the seating of the Grand LeMans. One might say "Why?", but if you didn't like fender skirts that the Grand LeMans had, here was the way to get around it.

Were these ways to nudge sales up a bit? Who knows, but choice is always nice.

Chevy rarely 'stretched' like that.

jwm40517

A good friend of mine's father bought him a new 1966 SS 396-325 Chevelle when he graduated from high school. It had a bench seat and 4 speed with no console. The only one I ever saw like it and there were lots of SS396's around. He was a wide butt 320 pounder and it worked better than buckets.

andre1969

I remember reading that Pontiac was getting desperate to bolster LeMans sales in general. I'm too lazy to look up the specs, but supposedly the LeMans wasn't quite as successful as the other divisions when the Colonade came out, and when the Arab oil embargo hit, its sales sunk worse than the others as well. So this is why they did things like giving the Grand LeMans the nicer dash for '75, and such. Perhaps, they figured offering a split bench seat and regular opera window in the Grand Am would help improve sales?

Were you forced to get fender skirts standard if you bought a Grand LeMans in '75? In '76-77 at least, they were optional.

And yeah, it does seem odd that they'd offer Grand LeMans seats in the base LeMans. But again, maybe that was a way to make the low end cars more appealing. The Grand LeMans sedan was also a very slow seller in '75, with only 4906 4-door sedans built. In contrast, they made about 19,000 base LeManses. So maybe they had too many Grand LeMans seats on hand, so they started offering them in the base LeMans to get rid of the inventory?

I'm not positive, but I think the LeMans may have been the only Colonade to see decreasing sales with every passing year. Actually, I did look that up. If you consider the Grand Am to be a separate model, rather than a trim level of the LeMans, then the '76 LeMans did do a bit better. They built around 92,000 LeManses, and 10,500 Grand Ams, for '75. Then around 96,000 LeManses for '76. But in general, I think the equivalent cars from other divisions did better. And the Grand Prix really took off.

uplanderguy

jwm40517, i do recall seeing the occasional Chevelle SS396 with bench seat, but not too often.

Something I like that Chevy offered in an Impala SS only one year ('67) is a Strato-Bench seat, which is bench bottom for three-across seating, but bucket backs and center armrest. I've seen a handful of them. But apparently not enough for them to continue into '68.

They offered the Strato-Bench on Caprices from '66 to '69. Only way to get a Caprice coupe with a front-seat center armrest in those years, and in '66, that front seat option on the Caprice sedan got you front and rear seat center armrests, the last Chevy to have that until the late '80's Brougham models.

My first college roommate had a '68 Bonneville Brougham four-door hardtop with black nylon cloth interior and the strato-bench seat. It looked nice, but those strato seat backs were thin and hard in my memory. The Chevy's would have been also.

uplanderguy

andre, I think '74 and '75 Grand LeMans cars got you skirts whether you wanted them or not, but I'm too lazy to look. That's my memory, though.

uplanderguy

Another eye-opening reader comment on FB today on a Barn Finds post about a '61 Corvair Monza for sale:

It was rumored that plans for this car with a turbo were scrapped because it was faster than the Corvette for that year.

Apparently dear reader has never heard of the Turbo Spyder/Corsa models built from '62 to '66.

You can't make this stuff up.

andre1969

There were a few experimental engines that were designed with the Corvair in mind, that never made it to production. I wonder if that's what the commenter was thinking of.

Wikipedia has a list of these engines in its Corvair entry. It doesn't mention putting pressure on the Corvette, however. In reading the description, it simply sounds like none of the engines were reliable enough, nor cost effective enough, to be put into production.

According to my old car book, the weakest Corvette engine in 1961 was a 230 hp 283. I guess it's possible, that some of these experimental engines might have been more powerful than that?

The only 1961 Corvette road test I could find was one with the 315 hp fuel injected 283, and they got 0-60 in 6.6 seconds. Automobile Catalog has mathematical calculations that estimate 0-60 times (sometimes they're dead on, but not always), and the slowest one they showed was the 230 hp 283, with a Powerglide, and even it was still good for 0-60 in an estimated 8.2.

I found a Motortrend test of a '62 Corvair Monza Spyder, with 150 hp and a 3-speed manual. 0-60 in 12.1 seconds. So with what actually went into production, I doubt a Corvair ever gave a Corvette a serious run for its money. But, if you want to stretch your imagination, I guess it's possible one of those experimental engines might have been able to at least beat the slowest Corvette? At least, for the few good runs you got before the engine developed some malfunction?

It's a stretch of the imagination, but I could see someone taking the info and such that I just dug up, and put the spin on it of "plans for the car with a turbo were scrapped because it was faster than the Corvette that year"

uplanderguy

You're very diplomatic, andre. I'm leaning towards that the guy is Cliff Clavin!

imidazol97

https://www.g3gm.com/gallery/Pontiac/1975/tom-s-toys-10-12-2008-027-pic_961.htm

https://www.g3gm.com/gallery/Pontiac/1975/pontiac-display-signs-003-pic_992.htm

explorerx4

Some great research Imidazol97.

uplanderguy

Yes, thanks imidazol. That's definitely the car; great pics and backstory.

imidazol97

Thanks. I was hoping for inside pictures of car, but haven't found those.
Note that one of the small pics shows that same car with different rims.
And owner had changed the color of the car. I can see both ways on that.
I like originals. But sometimes there's a much nicer color that was offered.

uplanderguy

I like original best, especially on a car where there will be doubters as on this car. You could show them the window sticker, or at least the PHS documentation.

I always thought that '73 and later instrument panel was designed with a console in mind. I'd love to know how many of those Grand Am's were built with bench seat. I knew the '78-80 was available with it.

We've talked about this before, but the term "special order" always rather cracks me up, In my mind that conjures up something along the lines of COPO, and/or you knew somebody so got something that was generally believed to be not available. I ordered one car in my life, and I always just said "I ordered it". I think I've seen broadcast sheets that say "CUST ORDER" and in conversation I know over the years I've said to somebody, "Somebody probably ordered that car".

stickguy

on my Maverick, the window sticker was a different color because it was a custom order (and it really was, I specced it out exactly as I wanted, within what they would allow!). I think mine was green. Stock units were blue.

only custom orders I ever did. Other than the 2000 BMW 525 I did, but backed out of before it was built. Should have just spend the money and treated myself, in retrospect!

roadburner

I ordered the Club Sport. My Cooper Clubman is essentially the base trim levell in the US. It had to have been ordered as it has several options that you almost never see on a Cooper- Comfort Access, navigation, heated leather sport seats, real English oak wood trim, and roof rails,

Michaell

roadburner said:

I ordered the Club Sport. My Cooper Clubman is essentially the base trim levell in the US. It had to have been ordered as it has several options that you almost never see on a Cooper- Comfort Access, navigation, heated leather sport seats, real English oak wood trim, and roof rails,

I thought every MINI was unique, to a certain extent .. I seem to remember them claiming there were 10,00,000 combinations possible.

fintail

All of my new cars have been leases of oddball or leftover models, I have never special ordered. Probably for the better, as my custom build would probably would get pushed back due to parts availability, be witherlingly expensive, or both. The wagon has much of what I would pick if building myself, so I am happy, and still from back in the day when it wasn't hard to get 10% off sticker on almost any MB.

I wish there was a Marti type report for all cars.

kyfdx

I've never ordered. I've had a dealer trade done, to get a specific color, but that's it. Back when we were in leasing mode, I found I got the best deals that way.

sda

I don’t know if it was a dealer trade but in 98 the Mazda dealer sent a driver to Atlanta to pick up a Mazda Millenia in the color twilight mica blue I wanted. I also wanted the cold weather package and Bose that my 96 Millenia had but alas there were no Millenias of any color available with the cold weather package though I did get the Bose. I would have bought the 96 Millenia at lease end but the residual was too high and there was no negotiation on that end.

roadburner

sda said:

I don’t know if it was a dealer trade but in 98 the Mazda dealer sent a driver to Atlanta to pick up a Mazda Millenia in the color twilight mica blue I wanted. I also wanted the cold weather package and Bose that my 96 Millenia had but alas there were no Millenias of any color available with the cold weather package though I did get the Bose. I would have bought the 96 Millenia at lease end but the residual was too high and there was no negotiation on that end.

My dealer(Kings Mazda in Cincinnati) traded with another dealer to get my Mazdaspeed 3. Kings had the car flatbedded from Cleveland at no added cost.

ab348

On my '14 ATS the local dealer only had one in a very odd shade of Plum Metallic with zero options, so I did a search in Eastern Canada for better choices. I found two that I liked, one in Montreal in metallic white with kind of a butterscotch interior (not exactly tan), and one in metallic red with black a couple of hundred miles away. I took the latter and they did a trade with that dealer at no charge to me.

explorerx4

Started and took the Mustang out for a ride today.
Put the unused snowblower gas in it, let it warm up for a while then drove it about 10 miles.

tjc78

I can’t remember… did you get it all fixed up? You were having trans issues, right?

explorerx4

Transmission was rebuilt last year before we moved and it drives just fine.
Radiator stop leak is doing its' job.
Have to find a place to do some of the other work.

tjc78

Awesome. It certainly looks mint!

imidazol97

I saw this green beauty in the parking lot and had to take a picture.

kyfdx

'74?

andre1969

Judging from that color, I'd guess that Caddy is around an '80-82? To me it looks more blue, but sometimes lighting/contrast etc can play tricks on the eye. Looks like a beautiful hue, whatever it is!

It looks to me like a color you might have seen in the late 60's or perhaps really early 70's, before earth-tones and such became all the rage.

imidazol97

Might be blackwatch green, color #49.
http://paintref.com/cgi-bin/colorcodedisplay.cgi?ditzler=3083&con=4&page=1&rows=50&size=large

Listed as up through 1980. I couldn't see any flaws on that vehicle. I shouldhave taken a pic of front and rear to be able to get a definite year on it.

uplanderguy

That Caddy is at the oldest a 1984. No front fender engine emblem, and body-colored side moldings with no chrome beading.

laurasdada

Tonight, at the gym, a green (Japanese Racing Green?) Toyota MR2, beige top. Spoke to the owner, he found out about it from a friend who knew a guy who had it in storage for 8 years. So, a deal was made. He said a couple of new belts, oil, gas and he's got his summer toy!
Gen 3, the "Boxster" version of Mr. Two.

roadburner

Assuming the weather cooperates, I'm taking the Club Sport to a local car show this Saturday.

tjc78

Caddy looks nice but needs whitewalls!

uplanderguy

Really! The white letters on a car like that, particularly with wire wheelcovers, look pretty ridiculous, but I'll say I've seen a fair number of cars over the years with that combination.

I believe that car is dark metallic blue, both from the pic, and that I don't recall a dark green in that era at Cadillac.

imidazol97

This color swatch does look a lot like the color at various levels of light. It showed a blue tone in it
but it seemed more green to me, deep, dark green. I didn't get to take a really good look at the metallic
chips in the paint to see if they were blue or green or brassy tone.

uplanderguy

From FB:
Check out these photos that Jim Stohlman has of his grandfather! Sothlam's Grandfather owned Stohlman Chevrolet in Washington, DC at the corner of 33rd and M Street( notice the cobblestone streets October 1953). In the first picture is Jim’s Father, Edwin L. Stohlman Jr at 30 yrs of age handing the keys to a brand new 1953 Corvette Vin E53F001014 to General Donald C. Yates, 3rd in command to General Eisenhower!)

uplanderguy

I've been looking at Corvette stuff this morning a lot and came across the above pic. I did something today that is wild-hair (hare?) for me. I put myself in queue to buy a new C8 from Mike Furman, Corvette salesman extraordinaire. He sells at MSRP. Wife is all-in. You put a $1K deposit down which is refundable up until the car is scheduled for production. They are 12-14 months out on a non-Z06 for scheduling; then, the car is done six to eight weeks later. We want Bowling Green delivery.

I'm fully aware of Corvette stereotypes, but I think most are sold to people of the age group of my wife and I (64.5 and 57.5) or older. I goof on people bringing new or late-model cars to shows and cruises, but I'd do it myself, LOL. I no longer care.

The time lag is a positive to me. Gives us time to rethink it if the situation arises. We'd be at the tail end of 2024 production.

I want the Caffeine color, which is currently the poorest-selling color (typical of things I like, LOL). In the entire 2022 run, fewer than 400 of that color were built. I asked Mike in an email if he thought the color would be available in 2024 and he replied "Seriously doubtful but the '24 colors haven't been introduced yet". We'll see what new colors might be out. I don't want the typical colors.

I like the looks of the coupe but wife wants the convertible for ease of top operation, and I agree.

Feel like I have to blab it somewhere. I know a few folks locally who will resent me doing this.

I goof on people who buy cars as phallic/status symbols, but here I am!

I like that it's the 70th anniversary; so far the concept of the car hasn't been all shuffled around (but I know an E-car is coming), and I like that the U.S. and GM can make a car like this, and at a price waayyyy less than anything else similar.

We'll see how it all plays out.

The wide availability of dealership service is a plus in my mind.

uplanderguy

I've never ordered. I've had a dealer trade done, to get a specific color, but that's it.

I've bought fifteen new Chevys since 1/17/81. Only one was ordered; nine were dealer-trades; five were in the dealer's stock. One of those five was an oddball four-door Cavalier with 5-speed; someone had the dealer do a dealer trade and then didn't buy it.

kyfdx

@uplanderguy Congrats! Hope it all happens for you.

ab348

Good for you, Bill!

uplanderguy

Well, I found out I can't use my GM Card earnings on a Corvette, which I find irritating.

kyfdx

uplanderguy said:

Well, I found out I can't use my GM Card earnings on a Corvette, which I find irritating.

I'd guess those with a GM card are their most loyal customers. Shortsighted.

tjc78

@uplanderguy
Wow! That’s awesome.

uplanderguy

Well, the earnings are applicable to a C8. When I googled the question, there is stuff online from a couple years back, "not applicable to 2020 or 2021 Corvettes". Emailed my salesman; he replied, "Where did you see or hear that? It's definitely applicable". My longtime GM card was taken over by Marcus last year and things have changed. There's a "GM Rewards" card, where earnings can be applied to dealer service and parts, but apparently my card is just a "GM Card" and all earnings are only applicable to a car, expiring in Jan. 2026. That's OK, as I'll need all the help I can get! I'm compelled to start putting EVERYTHING on a card.

So far my earnings are only $2,111, but that almost pays for the option that lifts the front up over driveways and parking lots that bottom out, LOL.

ab348

Good for you, Bill!

Do they offer an option to lift the entire car up to assist in creaky old guys getting out from behind the wheel?

andre1969

Congratulations Uplander! Hope you're able to pull it off!

uplanderguy

Do they offer an option to lift the entire car up to assist in creaky old guys getting out from behind the wheel?

I'll see if this is on the option list for 2LT.

fintail

uplanderguy said:

Well, I found out I can't use my GM Card earnings on a Corvette, which I find irritating.

You'll need to keep us updated with every step of this process.

Now you have time to get the outfit completed - jorts, tucked in T-shirt, socks nearly to the knees with white sneakers, maybe a fanny pack or conspicuous phone holster, complain about nobody wanting to work, etc

fintail

Out on the road today: pristine brand new looking 92-93 Accord coupe, clean ~80 Fleetwood Brougham in a period correct kind of bronze with off white top on collector plates, immaculate 51 Ford sedan on blackwalls and dog dish caps wearing a 63-67 plate style for some reason, another maybe mid 80s Fleetwood Brougham in more patinated condition, JDM van - maybe a Delica, apparent "Patagonia" edition.