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I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today!

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Comments

  • pensfan83pensfan83 PennsylvaniaPosts: 1,428
    Against my better judgment I'm going to look at that Monte Carlo SS on Saturday. The pull is just too strong.
    1997 Honda Prelude Base - 2018 Acura TLX A-Spec SH-AWD - 2014 Nissan Altima 3.5SL - 2019 Toyota Tacoma TRD Off Road Double Cab
  • fintailfintail Posts: 48,093
    edited August 22
    Please tell me "Oldmobile" was intentional B)

    Those downsized Caddys with the good engine can be attractive cars. Also one year bustleback with the old style engines, although I suppose an 81 would do.

    That Cutlass has at least had paint I'd say, if not taken a hit in the back, because the "Oldmobile" script was never installed on the soft bumper there; it was on the decklid.

    While on this subject, I'd still very-much like a '79 or '80 Eldorado or '77-79 Fleetwood Brougham, with the tapered B pillar I hated back then but now like as distinctive.

    re: Vigor, I still see them around every blue moon or so, I think they sold well enough here.

  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 23,552
    edited August 22
    I don't know how things have changed since then, but I remember, from an old 1984 Consumer Guide auto issue that I had, for GM's intermediates in general, the 1978-79 models were actually the best of the bunch! They tended to rate average to better in most respects, and not that many black marks. But for 1980, they slipped a bit, and moreso for 1981, and even worse for 1982-83.

    But, times do change. And, I'd imagine that even back then, they were comparing the reliability of the '78-79 GM intermediates to other '78 and '79 cars that they got owner responses for. So, a car that was good, compared to other 1978 cars might still have been worse than, say, a 1981 model that was rated worse than other 1981 cars.

    I've always heard that the 1981-82 models, in general, were the worst, mostly because those computer controls were particularly troublesome in these early years. I think they were also having trouble adapting to ever-tightening emissions standards. But, my own personal experience might be tainting my views, as I had an '82 Cutlass Supreme that crapped its 231 around the 73,000 mile mark. In those years they also severely curtailed the use of any engine in the 300 CID range, leaving the coupes and sedans to deal with under-sized 260 CID range V-8s, or the Buick 252 V-6.

    For some reason though, it seemed like something changed for 1983. Almost overnight, they dropped the 260 and 267 (the Pontiac 265 left us after '81). And they started offering 305 and 307 V-8s across the board, and even some high-output models, such as the Olds Hurst and the Monte Carlo SS. I can't remember though...did emissions/economy standards get relaxed for '83, or did the automotive technology just happen to improve, somehow?

    I think '83 was also the year Ford dropped that under-sized 255 V-8.
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 33,365
    Vigor was a 5 cyl. Not sure if they had optional V6 or if that didn’t arrive until gen 1 TL

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaPosts: 10,888


    While on this subject, I'd still very-much like a '79 or '80 Eldorado or '77-79 Fleetwood Brougham, with the tapered B pillar I hated back then but now like as distinctive.

    This would have been the one to get:

    http://www.mcsmk8.com/78-CAD/78-cad.html

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6, 1968 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Holiday Coupe

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 33,365
    I oddly like that monte. Needs a stick though of course! Better without T tops too. But, kinda cool, and upgradeable.

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaPosts: 10,888
    andre1969 said:


    For some reason though, it seemed like something changed for 1983. Almost overnight, they dropped the 260 and 267 (the Pontiac 265 left us after '81). And they started offering 305 and 307 V-8s across the board, and even some high-output models, such as the Olds Hurst and the Monte Carlo SS. I can't remember though...did emissions/economy standards get relaxed for '83, or did the automotive technology just happen to improve, somehow.

    I think '83 was also the year Ford dropped that under-sized 255 V-8.

    I think by then the tech had advanced enough that they could meet the CAFE standards with a 300c.i. (+/-) engine versus a 260c.i. one.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6, 1968 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Holiday Coupe

  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 23,552
    tjc78 said:

    What were they thinking with the 4100 in those cars?

    No wonder Lincoln really took off in the mid-80s. Multiport Fuel Injected 302 (after 85) and 4spd auto OR a 4100. HMM, tough choice there.

    I think much of it was that Cadillac knew those cars were cash cows, and people would buy them, no matter what. The typical buyer didn't really care that they were slow, just that they looked good, were roomy, and luxurious. In the long run, I think they should have just kept the 368, and paid the CAFE fines...probably would have done more for their image, in the long run. FWIW, the 368, did stay around in limousines through 1984. I can't remember if it still had the cylinder deactivation or not. It used the beefy THM400 automatic, and was EPA-rated at 10/14. In a non-limo application, they might have been able to get away with the THM350. I guess the THM200-R4 might have even been plausible...after all, it was used in the Cutlass-based Hurst/442, the Grand National, and GM wagons with the 307.

    FWIW, here's how the EPA city cycles fared for the Deville, over those dark years:

    1979: 425-4bbl: 14, 425 Fuel Injection: 12
    1980: 368-4bbl: 15, 252-4bbl V-6 (credit option): 17
    1981: V-8-6-4: 15 (I'm guessing you saw real gains on the highway though), 252-4bbl: 18 (it started using the 4-speed OD transmission instead of the 3-speed)
    1982: 4.1/249 V8 fuel injection: 17 (it used the 4-speed), 252-4bbl, 18.

    So, realistically, going from even the 425 to these tiny engines really didn't save THAT much. Personally, given the choice I'd take the 425 and just deal with the 3-4 city mpg loss compared to those under-sized, and unreliable engines. But, at the time, fuel was scarce and expensive, and even if the buyers of these cars could afford it, there was always the risk of the gas stations running out, and you didn't know when you could fill up again. I don't know if they actually rationed gas during the second fuel crunch like they did during the first, but I do remember stations running out from time to time. And, those auto makers would sell their soul to the devil if if would save them a few bucks per car in EPA fines, so they were willing to take the risk with those smaller engines.

    It would have been nice though, if Cadillac had continued to improve upon the 368. Or, perhaps come out with a smaller-displacement version around 300 CID, like Chevy did with the 305, or Olds with the 307. Just don't do it like Pontiac did with the 301 :p
  • fintailfintail Posts: 48,093
    Amazing car, time warp. I forgot about that collector/collection, his page links to some pretty nice material.
    ab348 said:

    <
    This would have been the one to get:

    http://www.mcsmk8.com/78-CAD/78-cad.html

  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaPosts: 10,888
    edited August 22
    andre1969 said:

    For some reason, my gut is telling me that Cutlass Supreme has the 231, even though it's the Brougham model. Don't ask me what's tipping me off...just intuition.One way to tell, if you know how to decode these things, is I believe the code for the Olds 307 was either a "W" or a "Y". But, it looks like that for sale sign might be covering the VIN.

    Those VINs could get confusing, too, because sometimes they'd recycle letters. For instance, in the late 70's, "Y" was the code for the dreaded Pontiac 301. I forget how GM handled it in the years when they had both the 301 and the 307? Maybe that was when they used "W" for the 307?

    Another way to narrow it down, somewhat, is if the transmission was a 4-speed automatic, it would have been the 307. The 231 only used the 3-speed automatic. However, the 307 did also offer the 3-speed, just with ridiculously tall gearing to offset lack of overdrive. Confusing times!

    **Edit: I just found this online... https://www.gbodycentral.com/forums/vins-oldsmobile/1985-oldsmobile.php Looks like, by 1985, they were using "9" to denote the 307. This site doesn't say what the code for the 231 was, though.

    Actually I got a pic of the VIN, but it doesn't decode properly on the sites I found. Maybe because it is a Canadian-built car: 2G3GW47H2F2315380


    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6, 1968 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Holiday Coupe

  • DaverceeDavercee Tampa, FloridaPosts: 102
    edited August 22
    "What were they thinking with the 4100 in those cars?"
    "CAFE, mostly."
    Hahaha! Took the words right out of my mouth.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 23,552
    Is it possible that a Canadian Cutlass Supreme would use a Chevy 305? I found a table here, that mentioned an "H" code LG4 5.0 V-8 4bbl: https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Vehicle_Identification_Numbers_(VIN_codes)/GM/VIN_Codes#Engine_codes_for_passenger_cars

    And then I googled "LG4" and found a reference to the Chevy 305-4bbl from the late 70s/80's... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_small-block_engine#LG4

    Oh, and in another forum, I found out that "9" is the code for the High-output 307 used in the Hurst/442. "Y" is the code for the mainstream 307. Or, as they referred to it in the forum, the "sucky" 307...
  • tjc78tjc78 South JerseyPosts: 8,873
    fintail said:

    Amazing car, time warp. I forgot about that collector/collection, his page links to some pretty nice material.

    ab348 said:

    <
    This would have been the one to get:

    http://www.mcsmk8.com/78-CAD/78-cad.html

    I've read that before.

    He has an awesome collection. His tastes also practically mimic mine so it's fun to dream, lol.

    2017 Buick Enclave / 2017 Hyundai Elantra (for a little longer) / 2019 Volvo S60 T6 Inscription

  • tjc78tjc78 South JerseyPosts: 8,873
    Here is one I would love to have. One of the rarest Panthers made. One year only model

    http://www.mcsmk8.com/92-P75/92-P75.HTM

    2017 Buick Enclave / 2017 Hyundai Elantra (for a little longer) / 2019 Volvo S60 T6 Inscription

  • fintailfintail Posts: 48,093
    I've never seen a CV like that before.

    He also likes some MBs, and I agree with his tastes:

    Amazing car:

    http://www.mcsmk8.com/98-S600/98-S600.html

    Ultimate R129 configuration:

    http://www.mcsmk8.com/97-SL74/97-SL74.html
    tjc78 said:



    I've read that before.

    He has an awesome collection. His tastes also practically mimic mine so it's fun to dream, lol.

  • thebeanthebean Parts UnknownPosts: 1,126
    Two different Chevy SSR’s in the past two days. Can’t be too many of those running around in the wild.
    2015 Honda Accord EX, 2017 Honda Civic EX-T
  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaPosts: 10,888
    andre1969 said:

    Is it possible that a Canadian Cutlass Supreme would use a Chevy 305? I found a table here, that mentioned an "H" code LG4 5.0 V-8 4bbl: https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Vehicle_Identification_Numbers_(VIN_codes)/GM/VIN_Codes#Engine_codes_for_passenger_cars

    And then I googled "LG4" and found a reference to the Chevy 305-4bbl from the late 70s/80's... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_small-block_engine#LG4

    Oh, and in another forum, I found out that "9" is the code for the High-output 307 used in the Hurst/442. "Y" is the code for the mainstream 307. Or, as they referred to it in the forum, the "sucky" 307...

    I have just learned that Canadian-built Cutlasses of this era commonly used the Chevy 305. Would at least make a swap to a different/larger engine down the road easier!

    At $4500USD and about 50K miles, this one doesn't seem to be a bad buy on the surface, but as with any vehicle this old around here, would need a thorough inspection.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6, 1968 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Holiday Coupe

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 33,365
    I saw an SSR last week too.

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 33,365
    That 73 looks fun. Wonder what he paid.

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaPosts: 10,888
    tjc78 said:

    Here is one I would love to have. One of the rarest Panthers made. One year only model

    http://www.mcsmk8.com/92-P75/92-P75.HTM

    Hard to believe the early Coyote engine only put out 210HP. Drop a current Mustang GT engine in that baby!! :laughing:

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6, 1968 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Holiday Coupe

  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 23,552
    ab348 said:

    tjc78 said:

    Here is one I would love to have. One of the rarest Panthers made. One year only model

    http://www.mcsmk8.com/92-P75/92-P75.HTM

    Hard to believe the early Coyote engine only put out 210HP. Drop a current Mustang GT engine in that baby!! :laughing:
    I seem to remember the numbers 190 and 210 thrown around a lot for the Panthers back in the early days? I wonder if 190 was with the single exhaust and 210 was with the dual?

    Back in the 80's, there was a common package on the Crown Vic and Grand Marquis, and I'd presume the Town Car as well, that gave you dual exhaust, a quicker axle ratio, wider rims, and limited slip. My 1985 Consumer Guide has a test of a Crown Vic with the package, and they said it only added something like $227 to the price. I think the axle changed from a 2.73:1 to a 3.55:1. Oddly, it got better fuel economy than the Grand Marquis they tested in that issue, which had the 2.73. The hp was listed the same for both...140 hp, which I thought was odd. I figured the dual exhaust would boost hp a bit. But, I guess it's possible that Consumer Guide mis-printed it? Or maybe Ford just under-rated the dual exhaust version?
  • tjc78tjc78 South JerseyPosts: 8,873
    edited August 22
    190 single and 210 dual were the numbers exactly.

    2017 Buick Enclave / 2017 Hyundai Elantra (for a little longer) / 2019 Volvo S60 T6 Inscription

  • tjc78tjc78 South JerseyPosts: 8,873
    ab348 said:

    tjc78 said:

    Here is one I would love to have. One of the rarest Panthers made. One year only model

    http://www.mcsmk8.com/92-P75/92-P75.HTM

    Hard to believe the early Coyote engine only put out 210HP. Drop a current Mustang GT engine in that baby!! :laughing:
    Not really fair to call that 2V early modular a Coyote... but yes the roots are there

    2017 Buick Enclave / 2017 Hyundai Elantra (for a little longer) / 2019 Volvo S60 T6 Inscription

  • texasestexases Posts: 8,922
    Yeah, I think they first started with 'Coyote' with the 5.0L in the 2011 Mustang GT.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 11,277
    That yellow Caddy is gorgeous, but one small detail has me suspicious:

    The "Touring Suspension" emblem on the trunk is above the "Cadillac" script? I can't say I remember seeing one specifically, but I've never, and I mean never, seen any emblem above a Cadillac script.
  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaPosts: 10,888

    That yellow Caddy is gorgeous, but one small detail has me suspicious:

    The "Touring Suspension" emblem on the trunk is above the "Cadillac" script? I can't say I remember seeing one specifically, but I've never, and I mean never, seen any emblem above a Cadillac script.

    He addresses that in the write-up. There was originally a dealer emblem there that the trunk lid was drilled to receive which he hated, but not wanting to repair/repaint the trunk lid he found that the Touring emblem fit the holes and installed it.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6, 1968 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Holiday Coupe

  • sdasda Indian Land, SCPosts: 2,853
    Dad had a 78 Sedan de Ville d’Elegance and mom later had a 78 Olds 98 Regency coupe. The Olds felt significantly quicker with the 403 Olds V8 than the 425 Cadillac V8. The Cadillac V8 was a bit quieter. Both got lousy mpg, 11-12 mpg city and 15mpg or so highway, and this was when the speed limit was 55 and we wouldn’t dare drive over 62 mph, otherwise a speeding ticket was very likely.

    2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech, 2013 Honda Accord EX, 2006 Acura TL w/nav

  • fintailfintail Posts: 48,093
    Saw an early 80s Colt on the road today, yellow with a black stripe, looked to be in OK condition, a twin stick perhaps.
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 4,513



    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaPosts: 13,092
    That red car is pretty. Love it or hate it, that was the art deco era.
    2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2008 and 2013 Subaru Forester(s), 1969 Chevrolet C20 Pickup, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250 Pickup
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