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I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today!

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  • omarmanomarman Member Posts: 2,702
    Never trust magazines. Read the newspapers.

    A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,638
    I'm impressed at the Monte Carlo they tested in that issue. It had the 245 hp 454, automatic, and even with fairly loafy 2.73 gearing and a 4400 lb curb weight, it managed 0-60 in 8.6 seconds, and did the 1/4 mile in 16.6 seconds@86 mph. Seemed like a lot of car for the money, too. MSRP of 5326, but it also had the swivel seats, a/c, and power windows.

    I know that performance seems leisurely by today's standards, but with that weight, the way they were smogging engines down, and the loafy gearing, it was probably nothing short of miraculous at the time. It did call for 91 octane, though.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,669
    "(Battery is in and car Started)"

    Great! Now there's 10 year old varnish everywhere!
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,204
    Wish you could see more of the Continental.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 18,979
    I had that copy of R&T at the time and held on to it for many years. I can't imagine R&T testing a mainstream Chevy and an couple of econoboxes today.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 234,725

    Been sitting outside this independent shop for a couple of months

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  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,382
    mechanic working up his nerve, or owner still trying to scrape up the down payment?

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 234,725
    They do a lot of high end, old stuff there. Who knows?

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  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 234,725
    Bonus points if you can identify the neighboring vehicle

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  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,382
    a couple this week on a trip to upstate NY. Today, on the thruway, a super clean looking 70ish Lemans. Chrome front bumper.

    and driving local up there, some late 30's looking sedan. Maybe a plymouth? but had some period cop car looking accessories. Drove past so not much time to really scope it out.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • sdasda Member Posts: 6,920
    kyfdx said:

    Bonus points if you can identify the neighboring vehicle

    Jag XJS?

    2018 VW Passat SE w/tech, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech, 2006 Acura TL w/nav

  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 239,555
    kyfdx said:

    Bonus points if you can identify the neighboring vehicle

    TR-6?

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Jaguar XJ-S?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    Definitely XJS.

    Went out to dinner with my uncle this afternoon, at a restaurant located at an intersection that seems like a magnet for odd cars. Every time I go there I see something unusual. Today I spotted a W126, BMW E32, 63 Impala, white Mk IV Supra not too modified, early 90s 911.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,382
    looked like a Jag to me.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 234,725
    Yes, it’s an XJ-S

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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,026
    edited April 2019
    I'd be way-more interested in that particular R&T than any in about the last twenty years, LOL.

    "Lamborghini Countach Road Test!", LOL.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    At that point in time, the W116 was probably the best sedan in the world, not accounting for price, of course. I'll wager it cost about 15K then.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 234,725
    300 TE wagon (naturally)

    Late '80s?

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    fintail said:

    At that point in time, the W116 was probably the best sedan in the world, not accounting for price, of course. I'll wager it cost about 15K then.

    Well perhaps the best engineered and best-built but surely not the most reliable piece. Many first time Benz owners, coming out of Cadillac or Lincoln, forgot to treat it like the thoroughbred it was.

    I think the best overall Benzes were in the 1980s.

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,638
    I'll have to look it up when I get back home, but I think the Benz in that particular R&T MSRP'ed for around $13,500. So, I guess roughly 2.5 times the price of that Monte Carlo that was in the same issue?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    I can't fault the car too much because the driver doesn't understand it, and all cars of the era had emissions-related driveability quirks. A car can be reliable but primitive, which might not make it the best according to most enthusiasts. Still, in 1973, a W116 was a thoroughly modern and advanced car, probably the most advanced normal production sedan in the world.

    But yeah, the W126 was head and shoulders above virtually everything else when it was launched (making the W116 look old), and remained in that position for a number of years. The 80s were MBs golden years.

    fintail said:

    At that point in time, the W116 was probably the best sedan in the world, not accounting for price, of course. I'll wager it cost about 15K then.

    Well perhaps the best engineered and best-built but surely not the most reliable piece. Many first time Benz owners, coming out of Cadillac or Lincoln, forgot to treat it like the thoroughbred it was.

    I think the best overall Benzes were in the 1980s.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    They were too fussy for American drivers at the time I think. One issue is that American drivers of these sedans would not rev up the engine. They also didn't like the firm shift points or the stiffer ride. I guess they missed sliding from one side of the car to the other on turns.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,638
    I was thumbing through another R&T from 1973 yesterday, and found a test they did of a Pontiac Grand Am. I didn't look through it that thoroughly, but from the quick scan, it looked like they weren't that impressed with it. The main stats I remember was that it had a Pontiac 400-2bbl, with all of 170 hp, an automatic, and a 3.08:1 axle. It did 0-60 in 10.7 seconds.

    That was a pretty good example of how far performance was dropping in the 1970's. Back in the 60's, Consumer Reports would often test a Pontiac Catalina, with a 389-2bbl in the early years, 400-2bbl in the later. 0-60 usually came up in 10 seconds flat, and that's CR testing it, who was a bit less aggressive in their launch techniques than the R&T, MT, C&D, etc would be. Those Catalinas usually had tall 2.56:1 axles, as well.

    I think one big difference though, is that the Grand Am that was tested had a/c, whereas I doubt those 60's Catalinas were so equipped. And even with the a/c off, it still added weight to the car, and drag on the engine. I imagine the '73 Grand Am probably outweighed your typical '60's Catalina, as well.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yes the Grand Am was 500 lbs heavier than a 1966 Catalina. It topped out at about 4300 lbs!

    That's about the same weight as a fully loaded 2019 Ford Explorer.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,747

    Yes the Grand Am was 500 lbs heavier than a 1966 Catalina. It topped out at about 4300 lbs!

    That's about the same weight as a fully loaded 2019 Ford Explorer.

    Wow, really? I would expect a '19 Explorer to weigh more.... it certainly *looks* like it does.

    My Q7 is 5,500#. Crazy weight, IMO, but it sure drives smoothly. :)
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    I think my wagon weighs around 4300 lbs.
  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 239,555
    fintail said:

    I think my wagon weighs around 4300 lbs.

    Our Outback (with the 3.6 flat 6) only weights 3800 pounds.

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    The Exploder can weigh from 4,400 to 4,900 if you hang every conceivable bauble on it.
  • omarmanomarman Member Posts: 2,702
    1 day left on the Laguna Green Metallic 1993 BMW 850Ci with 6-speed manual. Current Bid: $20,000
    A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing.
  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 18,979
    Looks like a Jag XJS.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    omarman said:

    1 day left on the Laguna Green Metallic 1993 BMW 850Ci with 6-speed manual. Current Bid: $20,000

    Once again BAT defies all market rationality and pricing history. I wonder if the bidders are confusing this car with an 850 CSi? They are bidding CSi money for a much less desirable 850Ci.

    The confusion is not out of the question as buyers back in the day were confused by the nomenclature.

    Basically the 850Ci is a very high production non-collectible with zero appreciation potential and staggering repair costs. Good luck and godspeed, bidders, at 127,000 miles on a V-12.

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 234,725
    Michaell said:

    fintail said:

    I think my wagon weighs around 4300 lbs.

    Our Outback (with the 3.6 flat 6) only weights 3800 pounds.
    That seems awfully low for that vehicle.

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  • sdasda Member Posts: 6,920
    edited April 2019
    andre1969 said:

    I was thumbing through another R&T from 1973 yesterday, and found a test they did of a Pontiac Grand Am. I didn't look through it that thoroughly, but from the quick scan, it looked like they weren't that impressed with it. The main stats I remember was that it had a Pontiac 400-2bbl, with all of 170 hp, an automatic, and a 3.08:1 axle. It did 0-60 in 10.7 seconds.

    That was a pretty good example of how far performance was dropping in the 1970's. Back in the 60's, Consumer Reports would often test a Pontiac Catalina, with a 389-2bbl in the early years, 400-2bbl in the later. 0-60 usually came up in 10 seconds flat, and that's CR testing it, who was a bit less aggressive in their launch techniques than the R&T, MT, C&D, etc would be. Those Catalinas usually had tall 2.56:1 axles, as well.

    I think one big difference though, is that the Grand Am that was tested had a/c, whereas I doubt those 60's Catalinas were so equipped. And even with the a/c off, it still added weight to the car, and drag on the engine. I imagine the '73 Grand Am probably outweighed your typical '60's Catalina, as well.

    My parents bought a used 73 Grand Am 4dr for my sisters to drive. It was the 400 2bbl, ac, single exhaust. Not sure what axle it had, though it was a relaxed highway cruiser. It was peppy, but under full acceleration it felt winded. It got awful gas mileage, typically 8-10 mpg. It was a good driving car and served its purpose well.

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  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 239,555
    kyfdx said:

    Michaell said:

    fintail said:

    I think my wagon weighs around 4300 lbs.

    Our Outback (with the 3.6 flat 6) only weights 3800 pounds.
    That seems awfully low for that vehicle.
    I got the figure from Edmunds, so it has to be true.

    Right?

    :sunglasses:

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited April 2019
    Aha! Edmunds was wrong. It's 3810 pounds. :D
  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 239,555

    Aha! Edmunds was wrong. It's 3810 pounds. :D

    I rounded down :angry:

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  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 234,725
    I don't doubt it... it's just lower than I expected

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  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,204
    If an Explorer(3 rows) is 4300 lbs(maybe FWD version?), 3800 seems high for a smaller vehicle.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • omarmanomarman Member Posts: 2,702
    In the comments for that current 850Ci auction, there's a reference to a completed January auction for this:

    1992 BMW 850i 6-Speed salvage title with 141k miles. Sold For $25,251 On 1/23/19.
    A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 234,725

    If an Explorer(3 rows) is 4300 lbs(maybe FWD version?), 3800 seems high for a smaller vehicle.

    Our 2011 Infiniti G37 AWD sedan is listed at 3700 lbs

    Small? My 330Ci is listed at 32XX lbs.

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  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,638
    It's interesting how cars have porked up over the years. For comparison, here's the base weight of some of my rigs...
    1957 DeSoto Firedome hardtop coupe: 3910 lb
    1967 Pontiac Catalina convertible: 3910 lb
    1976 Pontiac Grand LeMans coupe: 3834 lb
    1979 Chrysler New Yorker: 3800 lb.

    A few notes...a 3-on-the-tree was technically standard on the Firedome, with the Powerflite being optional and the Torqueflite being optional on top of that. But, I think this was one of those instances where they simply built them all with Torqueflites, regardless of what the sales brochure said. The only '57 DeSotos I've ever seen with a 3-on-the-tree or a Powerflite is the Dodge-based Firesweep. So, I'd guess an automatic transmission does add some weight, over a manual shift?

    On the Catalina, I believe a 3-on-the-tree was standard, as well, although mine has the THM400. Plus a/c. So I'm sure that bulked it up some.

    On the Grand LeMans, I think my book averages 6-cyl and V-8 weights...although oddly, it says a 400-2bbl was standard on the Grand LeMans trim level. But, mine has a 350-4bbl, so go figure. As for transmissions, I think you could get a 3-on-the-tree with the 250-6 or the Olds 260. I want to say you could get a 5-speed floor shift with the 260, as well. But I'm pretty sure the 350 and up engines had an automatic standard. And, mine has a/c, which again, will bulk it up some.

    With the '79 New Yorker, a 360-2bbl and Torqueflite was standard. Although surprisingly, even at this price point, a/c was still an option!
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,204
    What I mean is:
    Outback length 190, width 73, height 66 weight 3865
    Explorer length 199, width 79, height 70 weight 4629 (XLT AWD)
    Outback is noticeably smaller.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,669
    omarman said:

    In the comments for that current 850Ci auction, there's a reference to a completed January auction for this:

    1992 BMW 850i 6-Speed salvage title with 141k miles. Sold For $25,251 On 1/23/19.

    That's amazing/crazy. For whatever reason, the 850i has gotten a better reputation now than when new...
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    yeah, probably FWD version.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,669
    edited April 2019
    1964 Chevelle on the way to work - looked nice, but was doing about 2 mph on the freeway access road. Uh-oh.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    BMW day - saw an unattractively stanced E30 cabrio and 2 different white E34s.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 234,725
    Buick Roadmaster wagon.. With the full fake wood treatment.

    circa 1994?

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  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 15,817
    I saw the Roadmaster’s cousin the Caprice wagon on the beach in Wildwood Crest , NJ yesterday.

    2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve

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