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Toyota Canada Access Pricing



  • So, the Access-nonAccess price spread is 'probably' $900-$1500 CAD$ on a Sienna, on average, and $450-$750 on a 'Rolla?

    Though that's certainly a noticeable gouge, my take is that's about the size of the bite US distributors take without many folks noticing at all.

    The point in comparing US and Canadian market prices, for me, is to get a read on where, how, and how much profit gouging takes place. For the life of me, I can't see any reason that build/distribution costs should be significantly different between our markets. Overall, average selling prices appear marginally lower in Canada with dealers getting a proportionally larger bite from a slightly smaller profit pie.

    I hope it doesn't look like I'm defending Access pricing. I'm trying to understand the market dynamics. FWIW, it looks to me like regional monopoly (distributors) in the US costs consumers more than Access pricing in Canada. Neither is good, IMO; and both reveal fundamental intellectual dishonesty when suppliers talk about 'the market'.
  • Another avenue for negotiating under Access price conditions is to negotiate trade-in value.
  • Mass, I read chunks of the grey market thread. Thanks, again. 'Market splitting' with lower manufacturer-to-retail-outlet prices seems to be part of the story, with some makes anyhow.

    Now, I'm curious about invoice price and holdback rate differences between the US and Canada on 'Yodas
    and about which makes have larger/smaller across the border contant dollar spreads.

    I'd be a believer that Access pricing supports 'artificially' high 'Yoda prices with some hard data on invoice prices.
  • landru2landru2 Posts: 638
    There are some major differences in the cost structure for Canadian vs. American dealers. FWIW, in the arena that I am most familiar with, Ford Canada's holdback is 2% of invoice while Edmunds says that holdback in the U.S. is 3% of MSRP. That's a big difference.
  • Do you think for some reason that it costs canadian dealers less to floorplan their cars than US dealers? You are right that is a big difference.

    Not to get off topic, but I heard a news story on the radio the other day and this gray market stuff is getting into the spotlight again over prescription drugs. In the US there is a big deal about people, mostly seniors, getting drugs from canada. Alot of the same arguments are coming up about why the exact same drugs cost so much less in canada. The drug companies say it is because of canadian price controls, and that they can only make a profit in the US. The point was also made that the US is the only western country that allows drug manufacturers to advertise directly to the public. if these advertising costs were gone, then drug prices could be lowered in the US.
  • Landru, Edmunds says US Blue Oval dealers get 4.25% holdback. Another big difference between the two markets.

    The lack of transparency makes this whole thing tough to figure.
  • landru2landru2 Posts: 638
    away for the "American" (non-Access) way of buying Toyotas:

    sonjaab "What Brand has the Best Customer Satisfaction with its Car Dealerships?" Sep 30, 2003 7:57pm

    Is this the set-up that Toyota dare not change?
  • rivertownrivertown Posts: 928
    'Yoda could fix the rep prob with
    Access Pricing, ala Saturn
    make their salesguys hang with the classy guys at the Caddy store.
  • woodytwowoodytwo Posts: 42
    I purchased a 04 sienna le 7 passenger awd at $1750 under msrp in Ontario. I checked several dealers across Canada and the access price for the same vehicle is $250 under msrp. This is a rip off with all due respect to those of you who think that access pricing is fair, good or otherwise. Btw the negotiating took all of 20 minutes.

    Best advice to other Canadians in other provinces is try a mini vacation in Ontario and drive back with your sienna. Better price and you got some additional value.
  • asawasaw Posts: 54
    I can't imagine why anybody would think it's not when you can get the Sienna for so much cheaper in Ontario, while we folks here in BC can't.

    You know, if Alberta does not have Access pricing, I really won't mind driving there from Vancouver to purchase myself a nice Sienna LE. Ontario is a bit too far for me.
  • pat3pat3 Posts: 1
    Could someone tell me where I could get this information for Canadian dealerships...
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Posts: 38,515
    Hi pat3. You should be able to find out more information on Canadian dealer invoice pricing in the following discussions:

    guizmo "Canadian Car Buying (for Canadian Consumers)" Feb 4, 1998 6:10pm

    luck11 "CANADIAN INVOICE PRICES" Oct 31, 2001 10:11am

    Equestr99 "Canadian Invoice Price" Aug 14, 1998 5:46pm

    Smart Shoppers / FWI Message Boards
  • You have a number of individuals getting together to set the price for various vehicles. Granted it sounds, based upon the description of the method I have read here, that they're not getting together in a smoke filled room and saying this will be the price, but it's close. All the dealers who are submitting their estimate of what the price would be are certainly not going to submit low prices. In a truly free market economy, you wouldn't have this kind of tool or collaboration. Not that we have a perfect market economy in any event.

    Anyway, enough ideology. Has anyone in Access pricing territory, without using a broker, been able to get a price for a Sienna (or other model) for lower than the Access Price? Are dealers more willing to deal, now that some of the other competitors options are available, or are they still standing firm and smiling as you try to bargain?
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Posts: 9,359
    ...... ** In a truly free market economy, you wouldn't have this kind of tool or collaboration. Not that we have a perfect market economy in any event **

                Hmmm, obviously you haven't bought any jewelry, boats, furniture, Pella windows, grilles or any watches lately .l.o.l...

  • asawasaw Posts: 54
    I phoned the auto broker suggested on this board, but he told me there's nothing he can do. Everybody in BC has to pay the Access Price. All he can offer is some rust proofing package that I don't need.

    So here I go, and will pick up my brand new Sienna LE this Friday.
  • grandtotalgrandtotal Posts: 1,207
    I have heard rumours that Access Pricing is coming to Ontario in June? Can anyone confirm this?
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Posts: 38,515
    The following is a slightly edited post that was recently made by another community member:

    "#143 of 143 Re: Access Pricing coming to Ontario? [grandtotal #142] by tberlea Jun 15, 2004 (2:57 pm)
    That was true until last Friday when all Toyota dealers got an email from Head office........Access Pricing is Dead!!!!

    Toyota just got slapped with a HUGE fine in South Africa for doing the exact same thing and I guess they figured that they better back off quietly before the stuff really hits the fan here!!!!"

    Smart Shoppers Message Board
  • There was an article in the business section of today's Globe & Mail that indicated that Access pricing was being phased out. The article indicates that on some vehicles there was close to a $5K difference in price between Access areas and non-Access areas, the Access areas being higher. There were also a couple class action suits pending, though I don't think the one in B.C. had been certified yet. I do know Toyota had entered into a settlement with the Competition Bureau over it.
  • grandtotalgrandtotal Posts: 1,207
    Access Pricing is still on Toyota Canada's website.
  • especially if they're technologically challenged like myself. You can find the article on the Globe website if you search toyota under the business section. I'd post the link myself but there's that technological challenged thing again....
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Posts: 38,515
    Here is a link to the article for those of you who are interested: Toyota Kills No-Haggle Sales Price Strategy.

    Smart Shoppers Message Board
  • grandtotalgrandtotal Posts: 1,207
    Well, Edmunds makes it pretty easy for you. Simply browse to the page you want to paste a link for, copy the address of that page from the browser's address bar (that is mark the address and then press Control and C) and then paste the address into your message like this!vuserName=w- easelinsuit Edmunds takes care of all the HTML that you need.
  • I just bought a New Hyundai in Bangor Maine. I did almost everything over the phone. THe salesperson told me they are selling a ton of cars to canadians right now. I have to go with the Hyundai because you cant buy a Toyota easy. But after doing my research I think they Hyundai is a better deal. With the Toyota your paying a lot for the name. THE Hyundai I bought has a better warranty, more options and was thousands cheeper. I would highly recommend a Hyundai and shppinging in Maine. The border was easy and I save thousands. My friend is buying a Subaru from the same dealer this weekend. But she's going to look at a Hyundai also.

  • mchuimchui Posts: 2
    Access pricing was made because of people like you.
  • petlpetl Posts: 610
    Your reply not only doesn't make any sense, it's 4 years too late. Access Pricing was dropped because it was stupid and unlawful. A Manufacturer cannot negotiate a price (off MSRP) for the consumer. I'm happy Toyota was sued over the issue. That's why it no longer exist.
  • mchuimchui Posts: 2
    I think you should do more research before you reply! If you have done some research, you will know that trying to buy a toyota lower than MSRP in other province is still not possible today and people are still buying and makes toyota #1 manufacture in the North America. Yes you r right about the access pricing is no longer exist but people are still enjoying the process of buying a toyota with no haggle no hassel procedure. It does not exist in ontario doesn't mean that does not exist anywhere! I think you should get out of your cave and see the world a little more.
  • petlpetl Posts: 610
    I'll repeat. You had replied to a post that was posted in 2004. This is a dead issue. Open the link in post number 148 (posted by the Host). If people want to buy a Toyota vehicle without haggling or hassle, that is their choice. MSRP is not Access Pricing. If a dealer does not wish to negotiate, try another. Keep in mind, the profit margin for some vehicles is not high. Also, it may be difficult to negotiate for newer and/or popular models. Supply and demand will dictate how much a Dealer is willing to move on the MSRP.

    Good Luck, from outside the cave, in the real world.
This discussion has been closed.