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Ford Ranger vs Toyota Tacoma

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Comments

  • Motor trend used to say the Ranger would get a redesign in 2004, but now it says 2005 or 2006. Obviously the f-150 takes priority. Until then, the Ranger may sink as low as previous years Tacoma Sales. But is that really so bad? :)
  • sc0rpi0sc0rpi0 Posts: 897
    It's not bad, but they've been delaying the redesign several times now. Makes one wonder what is going on inside Ford, all those recalls, lawsuits, restructuring and so on.

    I can see why 92mph governor is bad. I've hit 90+ on more than few occasions on the freeway, driving normally. It's kind of surprising that Ford would put a governor at 92mph.....crappy tires?
  • But it is not always the case. I have Goodyear Wrangler AT/S (came standard on Edges), which I would hardly describe as crappy tires. The 92 mph govenor is probably due to the 4.10 rear gear than anything else

    Delays in the redesign? Are you certain we want to take 3rd party comments on as official Ford dates? What if motor trend is wrong? It's kinda of hard to wonder what Ford is thinking, as we are truck owners, and they are a major manufacturing company. I would think their agenda and plans are a bit out of our enthusiast grasp. But believe what you will.

    Another item to keep in mind is the upcoming redesigns of all the major competitors. Why not keep the best selling make/model around a little longer and work longer on the redesign. That would introduce the new truck after all the other makes are a year or two old. I would rather hold my trump card till the very end, than use it before everyone plays theirs. Besides, if it is not broken, do not fix it.

    Recalls? Haven't seen one yet. For 2002, the only recall was the FX4 differential.
  • sc0rpi0sc0rpi0 Posts: 897
    I think it's the tires.
    I have 4.10 gears on my Tacoma, and I think speed governor is set to 112mph.

    You're right, all we're doing is speculating about when next Ford will be coming out. And if they are taking longer to redesign Ranger, I really hope it is NOT going to end up like other late Ford models such as Escape and Focus, which have set nearly record-breaking number of recalls their first year.
  • saddaddysaddaddy Posts: 566
    speed government is related solely to the tire speed ratings. Not sure, just what I have heard.

    As far as the Escape and Focus, scorpio -- I hear ya. Car and Driver rated them both in their 10 Best (maybe not the escape, don't remember). Focus was in the 10 Best in at least its first two years, and yet it still came with tons of problems. I absolutely hate when car makers do that - not saying that Toyota never will - but you get what I'm saying. Some people think that initial quality is everything, but to me it is only about 10% of the whole pie, if that. I think true truck owners should feel the same way.
  • saddaddysaddaddy Posts: 566
    image

    Thats the new f-150, this is a pic from edmunds own site, so that i don't get into trouble.
  • And they are speed rated Q, or 99 MPH. I guess the 92 MPH was just to compensate for that. Oh well, it's not like I will be doing that too often, maybe a couple of times a year.

    About the recalls, some would say that is an issue. Most Ford owners I talk to say they got the call, got it checked out or replaced, and went on their happy little way.

    While I had my tint, step bars and security system installed, they loaned me a ford focus sedan. 4 door with 5 on the floor, and it was quick a nice driving vehicle. It handled exceptionally well, and the little 4 banger with stick was quite peppy. More fun to drive than an Accord (auto). I definitely recommend taking one for a test drive just to see what it is all about.
  • sc0rpi0sc0rpi0 Posts: 897
    There's a limit to my patience. If I drop 21K on a truck and have to come in 5-10 times to do recalls, I'll be very pissed off. I'm single, my Tacoma is my daily driver, and I just don't like to be stuck without a car. Luckly dealership is reasonably close by where I work so I can take a shuttle, but it is still a hassle.
    I'm sorry, but I think Ford owners just don't have any choice, or have simply gotten used to a high # of recalls. It should not be happening.
  • It has better styling, more room in the Explorer Sport Trac crew cab version, and a larger bed. Shouldn't the Explorer Sport Trac be in this comoparison?
  • sc0rpi0sc0rpi0 Posts: 897
    What're you talking about?
    Explorer SportTrac is not a Ranger DoubleCab. If you think it is, great. Then you have to compare it against Tacoma DoubleCab, which is the same underneath as Xtracab, just with shorter bed. Can you say the same for Explorer SportTrac? Just how much is shared between Ranger and Explorer?
  • last time I tried to write a message, it would not take.

    Heh, I spent 14 thousand, and my only downtime has been when I get extra equipment installed. Never had been without a loaner. For a fairly cheap truck, it feels very solid and performs wonderfully. However you would have to agree that nothing new has come up concerning recalls, or else some toyota fan would have posted it by now. :) Anyway, it is still too early to affirm, but looks like that is mostly in the past.
  • saddaddysaddaddy Posts: 566
    Its not Ranger sport track. I rest my case. Besides if I was a Ford man I would not claim it.
  • sc0rpi0sc0rpi0 Posts: 897
    The recalls I brought up usually apply to 1st or 2nd year models or redesigns. True, there haven't been any recent Ford recalls and lets hope it stays that way, I'm sure Ford does not need another multi-million vehicle recall. Let us just hope that with all the delays Ford engineers actually finish the next vehicle before releasing it, b/c it seems to me that they just throw a bunch of parts together, call marketing and say "it's ready, we'll work out all the bugs as we sell it".
  • Saddaddy:


    Found your comments interesting.

    The 4-Runner and Tundra are built on the same base. Up until this year, the Tacoma and the old 4-Runner were built on the same base. The older version 4-Runner offered the 3.4 V-6 as it's gold-standard for many years. The engine is sound, but the 3.4 will not adequately power the larger 4-Runner; hence, the need for the 4.0.


    The Tundra offers as standard the 3.4 litre engine: http://www.toyota.com/html/shop/vehicles/tundra/specs/tundra_specs.html


    This is the same 190 horse motor they put into the Tacoma. In the Tacoma it is an excellent choice. But in the Tundra...who could pull a boat, load it with rock, or put the family in it and go for a drive in the mountains--with a 3.4 six?


    How many 3.4 litre 6-cylinder Tundras have you seen?


    So the need for a 4.0 litre makes more sense for a Tundra and not the Tacoma. Probably since most Tundras sold are the 4.7's Toyota hasn't seen fit to change that over to offer the 4.0 as standard in Tundras yet. But don't be surprised if they do.


    My point: the 4-Runner is evolving. And it isn't Taco-sized like it has been since its inception.


     4-Runner Engines:

     4.0-liter DOHC 24-valve EFI VVT-i V61

    245 hp @ 5,200 rpm

    282 lb.-ft. @ 3,800 rpm

     

    4.7-liter DOHC 32-valve EFI V8

    235 hp @ 4,800 rpm

    320 lb.-ft. @ 3,400 rpm

  • sc0rpi0sc0rpi0 Posts: 897
    Tacoma is also getting a redesign.
    It makes sense for it to get a bigger V6: Tundra is not at risk of being cannibalized by Tacoma sales b/c it has the V8.
    Tundra could get a 4.0L V6 as well as the base engine, but not next year. Doesn't make any sense: engine would have to have been designed to fit Tundra to begin with, and we would have seen it this year.

    4Runner is evolving, that's fine. Toyota is simply waiting until next year to introduce the new Tacoma. Maybe waiting to fix up any potential problems before releasing Taco?
  • saddaddysaddaddy Posts: 566
    What you said makes perfect sense. You just have to remember one thing - the 4-runner was the first of the Toyota money makers to get a major change this go-round. Just wait until the Tacoma and Tundra get their facelifts, and then we can make more accurate evaluations of what should be powered by what and what is "underpowered."

    Rest assured, the next Tacoma will be more like the 03 4-runner than the current Tacoma is, whether this is good or bad remains to be seen.

    Thanks for your input, and don't be a stranger.
  • tbunder1tbunder1 Posts: 257
    looks like my predictions as of november are off. we'll have to see how december unfolds. but really, i find it amusing that you sat somewhere and searched for my statement JUST so you could say 'told you so', or 'you were wrong, haha'. hilarious. don't you have anything better to do? what i find interesting is that the avalanche sales are up like 82% and the ram is also up. every other truck in the top ten is down in sales. lol, the tacoma is still like 70,000 units behind ranger in sales. that's alot of trucks for an alleged 4.0 toyota engine to make up for. time will tell, but i highly doubt ford loses the #1 spot in compact/mid-size sales. even without a re-design, ford trucks will always outsell the competition. this will not change. from the F-series to rangers to explorers. they butter ford's bread. right now, im just loving my #1 selling liberty. it's 'like a rock'.
  • saddaddysaddaddy Posts: 566
    simply because dealers are selling them about $10k under retail. In all honesty, there have been dealers around here that are selling $32k Avs for $23 or $24k. It is crazy. Chevy saw what people really thought of the Avalanche its first year out and realized what they must do to sell them, and they did it. All the guys around here that were driving 97 Z71s and looking to uprgrade went to shop and saw that they could get an Assalanche for 7-grand less than a new silverado and set, "Why not. I'll just have to block out all the screams of how ugly this beast is." I don't know about the rest of the country, but thats how it has gone here -- all year long ads for dirt cheap avalanches and I said to myself what was going to end up happening in sales 6 months ago and it was right as we see now.

    As for the new Rams, not a clue what in the world people are thinking to buy one of these things. They rival the avalanches in ugliness. I do kinda like the new HDs just because I know a mean truck when I see one.

    I used to love Chevy and GMC 1/2 ton trucks, but since they changed to front end on them for the 03 model year I can't stand em. Im sure this is a style that will not grow on me a bit and I am pretty hacked off with GM. So now I guess if I was going to buy a full size it would have to be a ford, by process of elimination. I also saw an 03 F-250 PSD FX4 yesterday, WOW. I could drive one of those.
  • Like predictions, the one who makes them gets that warm fuzzy feeling when they are right. If they are wrong? Well that typically gets swept under the carpet.

    I too would believe that if Tacoma is enlarged and receives a larger engine, it would hurt Tundra's already small sales. Many just want a larger toyota truck, and want to tow a bit more than the current Tacoma can. I don't think it will be much, but I will bet that the Tundra sales will drop if the Tacoma gets the new 4.0l and a increase in size. It just makes sense. Hopefully not too many people only want or need a small compact toyota truck. Time will tell.
  • sc0rpi0sc0rpi0 Posts: 897
    You've dug up past posts too, so don't you have anything better to do?

    As far as Avalance and Ram sales being up: I can't think of any reason why Avalance would be selling well other than what saddaddy wrote.
    Ram: it's new, it's redesigned, it's got a big engine and 20" rims. I guess enough people like that. I wonder about the quality though. Once again, 10/100 sounds like a great idea on paper, but Dodge just may have bitten off more than it could chew when trannies and engines start failing few years down the road.

    Ranger vs Tacoma: I tell you what....about a year and a half ago you were saying "Ranger outsells Tacoma by hundreds of thousands". Now it's down to 70K. So what if Tacoma does not outsell Ranger right away. The way things are going, it'll eventually get there. I agree that chances of Tacoma outselling Ranger are slim: enough people think that Ranger is made in USA and don't want to buy any of the "[non-permissible content removed] cr*p", I guess it makes them feel patriotic. For that reason alone, in rural areas, Ford/Chevy/GM will always rule. Ford needs to seriously think about how they build cars and rethink their strategies, b/c while Ford is closing down plants, Toyota is opening new ones. That 70K sales advantage may disappear in few years.
  • Lexus entered the luxury car market in the US, the Cadillac and Lincoln boys were making the same arguments as *tbundy* is doing here: Lexus is no good, they're made of tin, Cadillac and Lincoln sell "hundreds of thousands more"....blah blah blah. We all know what happened - Lexus displaced Cadillac and Lincoln in just 10 years and is now the most popular luxury car in the US.

    Of course, this is just a rehash of what happened with the compact and family sedan too. The Corolla and Camry eventually took the US market over as well.

    And now history is repeating itself with the truck market, only this time the going is going to be tough, because the truck is an American icon whose owners are intensely brand loyal (some would say ignorant, too, which is what the truck makers are banking on - just look at those stupid cowboy Chevy commercials...). Scorpio was exactly right when he said "enough people think that Ranger is made in USA and don't want to buy any of the "[non-permissible content removed] cr*p", I guess it makes them feel patriotic. For that reason alone, in rural areas, Ford/Chevy/GM will always rule" Right on. Ignorant hicks make up a large part of the pick-up consumer base, and nowhere is this more evident than in Texas, which leads the nation in pick-up sales (no offense, Scorpio). It always makes me laugh when I inform these shocked folks their Dodge Ram was made in Saltillo, MX or their Chevy has an Isuzu engine in it. They are truly stupid and clueless, and maybe illiterate too, as the window sticker/maroney states this information.

    Speaking of the Dodge Ram, people are obviously buying the thing simply because of styling. The Magnum 4.7 is weaker than the Tundra's 4.7, and the Ram weighs much more. It is a poor working truck platform, and is one of the worst gas guzzlers out there. I suppose the fact the Ram has a good back seat with four doors has a lot to do with its sales success. But what's that say? People want a stylish truck with 20" rims they can use as a car. I'm sure it'll be a huge success in Texas...
  • saddaddysaddaddy Posts: 566
    the debate in the last few posts: I will bet anyone here that Toyota's CEOs and board of directors sleeps much more easily at night than those that work for Ford.

    I wouldn't mind Toyota staying right where its at as far as sales. I hate driving the same truck as 50% of other truck owners on the road. Also, we see how quality (as a whole)has been going for the sales leading big 3 -- down, down, down. Thats not to say that any Ford owners here have trucks that won't last 200k miles or none of the Yota owners have a lemon, just as a whole. Thats just my opinion.
  • sc0rpi0sc0rpi0 Posts: 897
    Everybody driving the same truck is part of the reason why we lift our trucks. It enables us to go further than stocks, but also a 6" TM lifted truck with 35s is a head-turner and a chick magnet :)
  • tbunder1tbunder1 Posts: 257
    my ranger was built in minnesota. GUARANTEE it had more american parts on it that any toyota does.
    and to compare dodge's ram to a tiny tundra is totally hilarious. pluto, care to post all tundra engines and compare their outputs to all engines available in the new ram? you take the smallest engine for the ram (one that you can get in a jeep and a dakota) and say "it is weaker than the tundra's 4.7, and it weighs more, blah blah. what you are really saying is that the tundra, in all it's glory is more powerful than the ram's weakest engine. is that something to brag about? you do it with the ford's and their engines too. it's not our fault toyota only offers one V8 for their tundra. the tundra is the truck that is being used as a car my man. don't forget, you can still get dana solids on the dodge 2500's. any sfa's on tundra? or any toyota for that matter? LOL

    as far as the avalanche sales, i have a hard time believing sad's theory. they've just now came out with an avalanche with no plastic cladding. this will help sales. ford may have closed some plants, but it is still #1 across the board.

    the focus is now the world's #1 selling car, and the taurus/sable is america's #1 selling car. explorer is #1 as well. maybe those mexicans have something down there. hehe
  • "you take the smallest engine for the ram (one that you can get in a jeep and a dakota) and say "it is weaker than the tundra's 4.7, and it weighs more"

    Actually, the smallest available engine in the Ram isn't their 4.7. It's a V6. And the Magnum 4.7 is underpowered and guzzles more gas than the Tundra's 4.7. Do your homework. The Ram with the 4.7 is the most popular configuration, and it's a poor work platform. It sells because people want a stylish truck they can use as a car.

    "the tundra is the truck that is being used as a car my man"

    Assuming this is true, I wouldn't even care. Americans demand plush trucks and use them as cars. This situation has been cultivated from the demand for these trucks, and the Big 3's willingness to deliver. Trucks have been used as cars long before the Tundra was ever introduced. The truck-used-as-cars market was created by Americans, not Toyota. Toyota simply jumped on the bandwagon to make money like everybody else.

    Same thing as the SUV market - people buying luxury 4x4 vehicles that will never leave the pavement. But you wouldn't want to go there, would you? Kind of describes you, eh?
  • I love this chat area!!

    I will admit, the new 5.7 Hemi in the Dodge HD's is a sweet engine!! My friend just bought a 2003 2500 Crew Cab and it is definately a sweet truck!

    I just don't have the nerve to tell him he will have to replace the tranny every 30,000 miles. Poor guy!! :-(

    Obi
  • sc0rpi0sc0rpi0 Posts: 897
    Lets take a look at #1, shall we?

    Focus: http://alldata.com/TSB/19/00195079.html

    Oh yeah, that's gold. Granted, that was the first year, but you can see why some people just don't trust Ford. Also, take a look at carpoint user reviews of 2003 Focus. It may sell the most, but you get what you pay for.


    Taurus: I think there is a religion of Taurus haters on the net. I couldn't find the website, but I know it's there. Again, look at recall #. Look on carpoint for reviews of 2002 Taurus.

    Camry eater? I don't think so.


    As far as trucks being used as cars: Next time you go to a grocery store, pay attention and look how many trucks are in the parking lot. Then see how many are dirty. How many have signs that they are being used as trucks.

    Also take a look at how many 4x4 SUVs there are. Check to see what kind of tires they have.

    Why? Because majority of trucks/SUVs you'll see are in nearly perfect condition. No dirt, street tires, brush guards, running boards...aka street queens. And guess what? They are not just Toyota. Exploders, Chevy Silverados, Rams....oh yeah, how many new Rams do you actually see hauling stuff? How many SUVs/trucks have a hitch?

  • saddaddysaddaddy Posts: 566
    but just adding to the conversation...

    Why were SUVs even invented? The answer: so folks could use trucks like cars.
    Why were SUTs invented? See where Im goin. Pluto was exactly right, to say that even half the trucks bought are used for trucking is a gross falsehood.

    Now, I will say this. IMO the Tundra is not in the same league as the Silverado, Ram, and F-150. No, the tundra is smaller. It is a little more well built, judging from an 02 Silverado I drive alot. But if you need a brute of a 1/2 ton truck, don't stop by the Toyota lot. However, I think a tundra would fit me better than any truck on the market right now. The sweetest V8 on the market as far as pep, smoothness, and more than a useful amount of power in working range of RPMs. Its big enough to have plenty of interior room, but still VERY VERY agile and easy to park. I would really sing their praises if the didn't have a pricetag that belongs on a bigger truck. If they were cheaper, they would be the perfect truck for me right now. Just my opinion.
  • However people buying a truck just to get to work do not care if the Toyota engine is slightly more powerful. The engine comes second to what's around it. 240 Dodge vs 245 Toyota HP? 300 Dodge vs 315 Toyota Torque? Making a mountain out of a anthill?

    Care to explain to me how 5 extra horsepower and 15 extra torque make the Dodge a poor work vehicle? Then we introduce the 2500 and 3500, and the 5.7 or 5.9l engines, and then you dissappear for a while... I just don't see how you can say the Tundra is the best truck available, when the big 3 offer trucks the Tundra can only wish to be.
  • How many Dodges, Fords, or GMs are configured as 3/4 or full ton pickups? Most are 1/2 ton like the Tundra, and the Tundra doesn't even try to compete in any other arena right now, so why even bring them into the picture? From what I've seen, the F150 doesn't have ANY more room in the rear seats than the Tundra has, but I'll give you that it is wider by a pretty large margin. You CAN equip it with larger engines, but how many people do? Most people don't drive a V6 Tundra, and neither do they the V6 models of the full-size trucks built by domestics. Similarly, Domestics don't sell most of their trucks with the largest engines either. So compare apples and apples instead of trying to take an example out of thin air to prove a point.

    The Tundra has done what it intended to do. It has gained a foothold in the fullsize truck market from those who don't need the biggest truck out there. They sell enough of them to make a profit and when the new design comes out, they'll improve their market share once again like when they moved from the T100 to the Tundra. Toyota doesn't take the market by storm, just slowly, methodically and effectively.

    Just my $.02

    Ken
This discussion has been closed.