Dodge Magnum
a_l_hubcaps
Member Posts: 518
Chrysler 300:
http://www.car-truck.com/image/chryed/buzz/300hemi4.jpg
Dodge Magnum:
http://www.car-truck.com/image/chryed/buzz/magmax4.jpg
It's not clear whether these will be offered as 2004, 2004.5 or 2005 models. Both will be on the new RWD LX-body platform. I have no information on pricing, but I'll wager the 300 comes in the $27-35K range. No idea at all on the Magnum; I'm a bit confused about where they are going to position that vehicle in the Dodge lineup.
As you can see, information about specs and pricing is spotty at best right now. But what do you think of the proposed styling? I really love the 300. I hope it looks just like the drawing, but with a slightly higher roofline and more reasonably sized wheels. I'm thinking of Photoshopping a '70s-Chevy-style slim chrome bumper onto the front of it...I think it would fit in perfectly with the styling, and provide some practical protection to boot (and a place to mount the front plate!).
The Magnum I'm not so hot about. The roofline is just way too low, and recent spy photos indicate that it's going to stay that way. The front end is nothing to sing about, either. It doesn't look very practical for a wagon. I like the Pacifica (which is NOT LX-body based) styling and layout better.
-Andrew L
Comments
Here's the link for more info:
http://www.car-truck.com/chryed/buzz/b020502.htm
-The 300 will come in 2 models, the Concorde replacement will carry the "300" badge, and the 300M replacement will have the "300N" moniker. The "C" being talked about just a few weeks ago has apparently been dropped.
http://www.car-truck.com/chryed/buzz/b122302.htm
-The 300's will be the first out, in the first half of 2004. The Dodge's will follow, later that year and into the next year. The "Magnum" wagon will come out after the 300's, rear drive first, and then with an AWD option. The Dodge sedan will be the last to show, because it was originally supposed to be the Super 8 Hemi concept car, but it got horrible response at the auto shows, so DC started the design from scratch. It now apparently resembles the Charger concept from a few years back, and may be badged the "Charger" or remain the "Intrepid".
http://www.car-truck.com/chryed/buzz/b121902.htm
These are two more links, Part I & Part II pertaining to the LX's:
http://www.car-truck.com/chryed/buzz/b120202.htm
http://www.car-truck.com/chryed/buzz/b120302.htm
And, another link that shows both a large side and complete front view of the steel blue Dodge Magnum wagon completely uncovered, resides here:
http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=5577&n=156,178&sid=178
I try to stay up with the latest, so I hope these links help.
For years, car "experts" have been reporting that the next logical step in the automotive industry will be the station wagon. SUV's have gotten "civilized" to the point where they nearly are station wagons with a bigger wheels and a suspension lift. A new Murano with a smooth and shiftless CVT, silky VQ series engine, and independent suspension is a far cry from my Jeep Cherokee. The biggest problem that station wagons have been having in the states (they're huge in Europe), is their house mommy image. In a world where we stress equality, the station wagon concept comes with its own stereotype.
What Dodge has done with the Magnum is simply given people a reason to buy station wagons. I'll speak for myself on this, I don't really need all the capabilities of my Jeep and in terms of handling, fuel economy, and performance, a sedan is far more practical. I still need to be able to throw my tools, a couple hundred feet of cabling, and my shopping in the back though or fold the seats down and carry my skis. Also, having power to all four wheels has saved me numerous times from having to call AAA. Most people that I have talked to have a similar mentality: they want a car that performs well on the road yet is flexible enough to act as a work truck, a toy, and, get unstuck if you accidentally drive into some mud. Taking that purpose of an SUV, Dodge has simply added more sports car (Hemi) and truck (AWD) to a vehicle that already accomplished this goal.
So what is the hardest thing that Dodge has to do to get people to buy this vehicle? Keep away from the "Station Wagon" image at all costs. This is car has great potential to be the coolest thing with 5 doors since the 427 Impala. It's fast. It looks good. It's practical. What else could you ask for?
I think you're right about how SUVs and sedans are kind of converging on this sport-wagon type vehicle. But I must say, I'm not so sure that the Magnum will be a big sales success. I'm sure it will be a great car, and will attract lots of middle-age muscle car fans who like the RWD and the big engine options, but it doesn't seem like a wise choice as a family vehicle. The low roof with small windows does not bode well for cargo capacity and kid-friendliness.
I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the Magnum per se, but simply that it's not going to be a volume leader, and I fear that too many of Chrysler Group's future products fall into that category: cool niche cars that will only sell in moderate numbers. If Chrysler Group wants to keep from losing the 3rd-place sales spot to Toyota, they need to do something that really reinvents the mainstream family vehicle, like they did with the minivans in 1984. The Pacifica isn't it -- too expensive. The Magnum isn't it -- too quirky.
I think what they should have done was not restrict the Pacifica to the $30K-plus market. They should have made a whole range of versions covering a huge spectrum of price and equipment, with all sorts of available options. If they played their cards right, I think something like that would have a chance of upstaging the minivans and becoming a sales home run. The Pacifica should be a good vehicle as-is, but by placing it in a narrow slot of the market ($31-37K range), they are missing a huge opportunity.
-Andrew L
by the way, you can go to the Allpar forums at www.allpar.com, where I am known as "eaglecars." They have a news & rumors forum that's pretty active.
-Andrew L
They are trying to recapture the unique American look in a contempory car but they've overshot the mark. Their glass ratio is too low. The Magnum has potential but needs to be smoothed out and slimmed up some. They need to shoot for the mid 60's proportions, not the mid-late 50's they pursued.
Yes, I read the Magnum is something like 89% of what the production vehicle will look like. The C&D article on it was less than convincing stating that clinic participants described it as "tanklike".
I also know that in recent years Chrysler production cars vary little from their "concepts" too.
The production Crossfire is different from the concept to be sure, but then again it's nothing more than an MB CLK in Chrysler clothes. It's rear end styling has already been compared to a 60's AMC Marlin.
There are some things that simply will not change because of structural considerations and production lead times, the glass ratio is one of them. The doors ARE going to be tall and the glass short.
As for seeing the LX or not seeing the LX that's not relevant. I know what I've seen so far, I know what I like and what I don't like.
I don't care for the direction DC is taking with the LX based on the samples revealed so far. I've also explained why I don't. Will my opinion change anything? Nope, and I don't expect it will. But I will express it none the less. If you agree OK. If you disagree that's your privilege too.
The ultimate decision will be in the market place regardless of anyones opinion.
You do seem to have a pattern of telling people who disagree with you to get lost, subtly or not so subtly. I've noticed that on the 300M board too.
These boards are here for discussion of a subject, good, bad, or indifferent. If you can't deal with that then perhaps you should consider seeking out a board that better fits your beliefs.
I am very excited about the return of the HEMI. I was browsing auto review this morning, and I read one on the 300M. They wished it had an engine like the ol' V8 HEMI, they said, although the current engine was good enough. Well, looks like they will get their wish.
As for the styling, I maintain that the brick car looks classy and would be a great New Yorker, but I personally would likely want a sleeker LX...called the 300N. Now, I don't know what they will actually build. The plan a while ago was to build both the "brick" and the 300M-like N. however, I don't know now whether there will be a sleek version or not.
So that raises the fair question of what, if anything, are they going to offer that appeals to the existing base.
I happen to own two DC products, a 300M and Grand Cherokee and I really like both these vehicles. But so far I'm not seeing anything in the LX line that I can plunk my money down for and that's disappointing to me as a current customer. Maybe something will come out of New York.
Brampton Plant employees who are members here have said there will be 7 LX based products. We've seen 2 1/2 (Magnum, Airflite, 1/2 of an unnamed LX) so far so there is more yet to come.
Perhaps some of those will go a different way.
Did it ever occurred to you that DC observers might just be checking around here to get feedback, good and bad, from customers to assess the customer mood and get a reality check?
Guess what, the world isn't all sweetness and light. Unless customers express an honest opinion about things like style, quality, and content we won't get what we seek.
The 300N is the follow on to the 300M I drive today. So I'm qualified to voice a commentary on the 300N - which happens to be thumbs down - if the LX we've seen represents the 300N.
If you don't care about my opinion why do you feel compelled to comment?
http://www.thehollywoodextra.com/chrysler/chrysler.html#300
Exciting? Class leading? I think similar words were used to describe the Edsel.
Lutz would have taken one look at this and said: What else have you got to show me? It would never have seen the light of day on his watch. Tom Gale is either laughing his [non-permissible content removed] off or crying, I'm not sure which.
See:
RWD - as former top-of-the-line Lincoln LS owner I can say - gadgets help, but only so much. I remember the drive in CT, in icy rain, with the road covered with ice - if not for a little snow on the side of the road, I would have ended up on a few occasion the the whatever Hell is the name of that river in Trumbull's vicinity... Powerfull engine + RWD = don't drive on ice. On the other hand, can say, that my Subaru on ice is the same nightmare to drive. But, how many days like these do we have a year?
Good DC design/bad GM design - problem with GM is they only go half-way. If you do something, be bold in it's presentation. GM, in my opinion, should get rid of 75% top & some line management, cut workforce in half and get rid of UAW (I just love driving on a bridge, which has 2 lanes closed for last 5 years, on the only line open has a pothole on a pothole, and read the sign "Union Job" and "Your Taxes at Work" - and all that after 2 hours of a traffic jam) - but coming back to GM - and be organization of loosesy connected car manufacturing companies; the GM engineers have designed many brilliant car, but their unbeliveably ignorant management will choose Atztec over common sence and everything else. The problem with Caddilac - it goes only half-way to MB or RR design - while you have to be better to make people to talk about you and desire your product; not just alike, but better. Hope somebody from GM reads this.
On the other hand, whatever Dodge does - they take it all the way. I like this. Hope execution will be on par with the look.
Saturn comparison - that's mean - you shouldn't make fun of sick and weak and impared and challenged in every respect. That's mean, bro...
a great car. Hopefully DC will tackle quality control with the new 300 and Magnum. I guess DC will be putting a mix of proven Mercedes parts in the new ones; they have got to know that quality is what everyone wants now. The size is about what the LS430 and the BMW 745 are except the DC ones have a bigger wheelbase. As for performance if they put the 345 hp 375 torque hemi in them then the Maxima will certainly be outgunned for acceleration.
also he did not experience Maxima's torque steer for himself. He writes "otherwise appealing new front-drive Maxima is said to be plagued by big-time, uninhibited torque steer" -- that's what he heard.
And then, how the sliding oud rear end is better than torque steer? Just asking.
And, guys, let's have conversation based on experience - what's the point of repeating stories read somewhere?
I'm an unapologetic lover of cab-forward and still am. The first gen Intrepid is aging well--let alone the second gen which I own. I bought the car for affordability, SPACE, handling, aesthetics and (yes) front wheel drive. I hope the majority of these attributes aren't lost in the translation..
Also, it looks like the new hybrid or what ever engines will be real powerfull real soon - may be departure of Internal Combustion Engine will not be such a tragedy after all.
Again...once we get past the URBAN MYTH of tranny problems--and beyond the subtle "fibs" told by Consumer Reports--who now have begrudgingly put the Intrepid on their "Recommended" list--we find both the first and second genrations Intrepids faring EXTREMELY well on MSN's used car reports.. A report, incidentally, which is much more balanced than CR's. Seems every few months, someone on these boards has to be educated about this...